Only needing Christ for salvation

[northern_dad]

Some of the other (non-LDS) churches I have attended in my life teach that the only thing needed for salvation is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Through Christ and Christ alone we are saved. I would like to know what the LDS take is on this. Thank you all for your time.

PS I'm not trolling and trying to start fireworks, I am an investigator who has attended LDS services and really would like to know the LDS side of this.

[BenRaines]

We believe that Christ was necessary to be saved from death. His resurrection saved us from eternal death. Christ is also needed to save us from spiritual death, separation from our Heavenly Father. Accepting Christ and his instruction to be baptized for remission of sins and to accept him as our Savior is another of our beliefs. Unless a man be born of the water and of the spirit he can not enter the Kingdom of God.

Ben Raines

[deseretgov]

I think that essentially that is true. All we need to be saved if for Christ to give us his "stamp of approval" if you will. Anything other than his stamp of approval can not save us. Nothing we do can ever save us. So the question comes, "How do we get His stamp of approval?" By having that relationship with Christ. So the next question is how to we have a relationship with Christ? Can we simply say I believe? Is that enough? If we believe in CHrist then we should obey Him shouldn't we?

John 14:15

15 If ye love me, keep my ccommandments.

Doctrine and Covenants 82:10

10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

So in order to be saved we need to have Christ's grace(aka His approval)>We get his approval by havinga personal relationship with Him>We have a personal relationship with Him by coming to know Him and obeying His commandments.

So can works save us? No they can not. Only the grace of CHrist can do that. But works are needed so that Christ will give us His grace.

[prisonchaplain]

I'm sure this thread will llead to fruitful discussion. If you want to see what's been said here in the past, you may want to review this thread: http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/22692-faith-works.html

[Guest Believer_1829]

Some of the other (non-LDS) churches I have attended in my life teach that the only thing needed for salvation is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Through Christ and Christ alone we are saved. I would like to know what the LDS take is on this. Thank you all for your time.

PS I'm not trolling and trying to start fireworks, I am an investigator who has attended LDS services and really would like to know the LDS side of this.

If you truly have a relationship with Jesus and love Him, would you not want, to the best of your ability, to keep all the commandments and do the things He has asked of you?

[MissKitty]

There are many things we need to do to obtain salvation and a strong relationship with Christ is one of them indeed.

I guess you could think of it like this..

Your father has a beautiful mansion. One day you maybe able to go and live there with your father. If you speak and listen to your father daily (that would be reading scriptures and praying in the spiritual sense!) you would have a bond with your father. However if you havn't shown your father you willingness to do as he says, an eagerness to obey him and to love and honor him. Would your father allow you to live with him?

Believing and conversion are two seperate things. Believing is the knowladge that Jesus Christ lives, conversion is the change in one self to strive to lead a Christ like life and walk in His foosteps. It is a commitment given to following Christ and God completely and utterly. You need to both belief and conversion to achieve salvation.

[TruthSeekerToo]

Here are some of the things lds.org has to say about the Atonement and how we are saved.

When the Savior carried out the Atonement, He took our sins upon Himself. He was able to "answer the ends of the law" (2 Nephi 2:7) because He subjected Himself to the penalty that the law required for our sins. In doing so, He "satisfied the demands of justice" and extended mercy to everyone who repents and follows Him (see Mosiah 15:9; Alma 34:14–16). Because He has paid the price for our sins, we will not have to suffer that punishment if we repent (see D&C 19:15–20).

The Savior satisfied the demands of justice when He stood in our place and suffered the penalty for our sins. Because of this selfless act, the Father can mercifully withhold punishment from us and welcome us into His presence. To receive the Lord's forgiveness, we must sincerely repent of our sins. As the prophet Alma taught, "Justice exerciseth all his demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is her own; and thus, none but the truly penitent are saved" (Alma 42:24; see also Alma 42:22–23, 25).

We are saved by the mercy of Christ. When we repent we lay claim to Mercy.

[northern_dad]

Here are some of the things lds.org has to say about the Atonement and how we are saved.

When the Savior carried out the Atonement, He took our sins upon Himself. He was able to "answer the ends of the law" (2 Nephi 2:7) because He subjected Himself to the penalty that the law required for our sins. In doing so, He "satisfied the demands of justice" and extended mercy to everyone who repents and follows Him (see Mosiah 15:9; Alma 34:14–16). Because He has paid the price for our sins, we will not have to suffer that punishment if we repent (see D&C 19:15–20).

The Savior satisfied the demands of justice when He stood in our place and suffered the penalty for our sins. Because of this selfless act, the Father can mercifully withhold punishment from us and welcome us into His presence. To receive the Lord's forgiveness, we must sincerely repent of our sins. As the prophet Alma taught, "Justice exerciseth all his demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is her own; and thus, none but the truly penitent are saved" (Alma 42:24; see also Alma 42:22–23, 25).

We are saved by the mercy of Christ. When we repent we lay claim to Mercy.

That is a great answer Truthseekertoo, Thanks.

[TruthSeekerToo]

That is a great answer Truthseekertoo, Thanks.

You're welcome! =) I just taught a lesson on Mercy today and find it so beautiful. There are lots of great things on lds.org about mercy and the atonement.

[Misshalfway]

Some of the other (non-LDS) churches I have attended in my life teach that the only thing needed for salvation is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Through Christ and Christ alone we are saved. I would like to know what the LDS take is on this. Thank you all for your time.

PS I'm not trolling and trying to start fireworks, I am an investigator who has attended LDS services and really would like to know the LDS side of this.

Well, I guess I would like to know your thoughts on the matter.:)

I love the LDS ideas of salvation and exaltation and I love the concepts of grace, mercy, justice, and obedience too. I think it all works together under the unbrella of my relationship of Christ to not only open the door to salvation but to help me grow and develop to my best potentials. But there is no doubt that all this progress or change of heart or repentance on my part can be accomplished without the power of Jesus.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Misshalfway

[Traveler]

Some of the other (non-LDS) churches I have attended in my life teach that the only thing needed for salvation is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Through Christ and Christ alone we are saved. I would like to know what the LDS take is on this. Thank you all for your time.

PS I'm not trolling and trying to start fireworks, I am an investigator who has attended LDS services and really would like to know the LDS side of this.

It is all a matter of understanding the “Fall of Adam and Eve” and therefore the fall of man. Because of the fall, man is a fallen creature that cannot merit eternal blessings. Because of Jesus Christ all mankind is saved from the fall. This is a unilateral blessing given to all mankind by G-d’s mercy. Therefore man is not accountable for the transgression of Adam when man is resurrected to eternal life by G-d’s mercy alone.

We also believe that through Jesus Christ that mankind can lay in store, “Treasures in Heaven” as spoken of by Jesus Christ in his teachings. Because we believe G-d is a “Just” G-d and cannot give to man the eternal treasures of Heaven unless man earns the rights to such blessings by laying in store those eternal treasures of heaven – these things are laid in store by keeping the commandments through covenants in Jesus Christ. We also believe that only the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is authorized (as in the kingdom of G-d) to administer those covenants as did the Apostles of Christ in the New Testament scriptures.

The Traveler

[northern_dad]

Well, I guess I would like to know your thoughts on the matter.:)

I was brought up beleiving that all I needed for my salvation was a relationship with Jesus and I held fast to that doctrine. It was just when I started investigating the LDS church that I found out the churches stance on works as well, Repentance, baptism and covenants came into play. At first I had a hard time accepting the "LDS works", I even had an evangical friend of mine tell me that anyone who believes the 10 commandments are still in effect after the sacrifice of Jesus Christ will be judged according to them. ( so I geuss he meant that after Jesus's sacrifice the 10 commandments are moot and people who just call on Jesus won't be judged according to them?) Yeah he said that. But once I started discussing this more with the missionaries it made sense that one must actually endure to the end by following the doctrines and commandments of Heavenly Father. But I still feel conflicted with this doctrine and the evangical doctrine as it was my faith for a long time. And that is why I started this thread, I'm still looking for answers.

[Seanette]

I spent some time in the evangelical sector myself. To me, it just doesn't make sense that Jesus gave us commands (see the Sermon on the Mount, among other examples) if obedience were unimportant. I just don't see Him going to the trouble of giving commandments just to hear Himself talk.

If obedience and how we live were really unimportant, then someone like a serial murderer, after spending his life wallowing in evil, could say the right magic words (aka the "Sinner's Prayer") while in the execution chamber, and be whisked up to heaven, while someone who'd never heard of Christ but lived a good, moral life devoted to selfless service of others gets tortured for eternity for not having said those magic words.

[prospectmom]

Thanks all for the good read tonight.

[rameumptom]

We believe in a near universal salvation. Christ is in the center of that salvation, offering it to all people.

There are levels of salvation available. The bottom level simply requires faith in Christ's atonement. Higher levels are available depending upon our faithfulness in following Christ.

The only individuals who will not receive salvation are those who deny the Holy Ghost. To do this, a person has to fully deny Christ, and become his outright enemy, loving evil, and refusing to accept the atonement whatsoever. So far, we are only aware of Satan and his devils, plus Cain, who have become sons of perdition.

[Justice]

They misunderstand that Christ "fulfilled" the law, He did not "abolish" the law.

The old law said "Thou shalt not kill." Christ's did not say "I abolish the law," making it OK to kill. He taught that we shouldn't even get angry with each other and that we should forgive each other.

He brought the moral aspect of the law up to par with the written part of the law. He gave the reason for the written part. He fulfilled the old law.

His way is a higher way, not a lesser way. His way required greater effort, not less.

Those who say "All we have to do is believe in Christ" want the easy way out. They want to know that they are saved no matter what, hence "once saved always saved." Sin leads to death no matter what stage your relationship with Christ is in. He gave us repentance. Once we understand what it is, we see how we can become perfect like Him.

Works don't "earn" salvation. Christ won salvation for us. But, Christ gave us the criteria He will use to judge us by, because no unclean thing can swell with God.

Many people think this "becoming clean," or this "sanctification" is a free gift He bestows upon us. It isn't. He never taught that.

John 1:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

This is the mecry or grace He offers. As you see, it does not bestow the gift of being a son of God, it bestows the "power to become" a son of God. This is what is meant by "enabling power." Without this gift we cannot become; or with man it is impossible. With this gift we can become; or with God it is possible. So, it does not preclude us from keeping the commandments. We must love God with all out heart, might, mind, and strength, and love our neighbors as ourselves. Christ is very clear on this.

I hope and pray you will feel the spirit as you investigate the Church, and as you read the Book of Mormon. I want you to know that I know it was translated by the gift and power of God, and it is scripture, just as the Bible.

[northern_dad]

They misunderstand that Christ "fulfilled" the law, He did not "abolish" the law.

The old law said "Thou shalt not kill." Christ's did not say "I abolish the law," making it OK to kill. He taught that we shouldn't even get angry with each other and that we should forgive each other.

He brought the moral aspect of the law up to par with the written part of the law. He gave the reason for the written part. He fulfilled the old law.

His way is a higher way, not a lesser way. His way required greater effort, not less.

Those who say "All we have to do is believe in Christ" want the easy way out. They want to know that they are saved no matter what, hence "once saved always saved." Sin leads to death no matter what stage your relationship with Christ is in. He gave us repentance. Once we understand what it is, we see how we can become perfect like Him.

Works don't "earn" salvation. Christ won salvation for us. But, Christ gave us the criteria He will use to judge us by, because no unclean thing can swell with God.

Many people think this "becoming clean," or this "sanctification" is a free gift He bestows upon us. It isn't. He never taught that.

John 1:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

This is the mecry or grace He offers. As you see, it does not bestow the gift of being a son of God, it bestows the "power to become" a son of God. This is what is meant by "enabling power." Without this gift we cannot become; or with man it is impossible. With this gift we can become; or with God it is possible. So, it does not preclude us from keeping the commandments. We must love God with all out heart, might, mind, and strength, and love our neighbors as ourselves. Christ is very clear on this.

I hope and pray you will feel the spirit as you investigate the Church, and as you read the Book of Mormon. I want you to know that I know it was translated by the gift and power of God, and it is scripture, just as the Bible.

Amen to that! what a great post Justice, thank you very much.

[prisonchaplain]

Whenever I see these faith/works strings go down in a chorus of, "Why do evangelicals believe the law is not important and why do they think they don't have to obey Christ's commands?" I can only sigh. Most here know that:

1. Evangelicals DO believe in obeying Christ's commands, being baptized, and even "doing all you can." It's just that we distinguish between conversion (salvation) and living the Christian life in holiness. The latter is done out of gratitude post-conversion. In LDS teaching "salvation" is understood as achieving exaltation to the highest kingdom, which, of course, requires a good deal of faithfulness.

2. Evangelicals know that Christ fulfilled the law and did not do away with even one jot or tittle.

3. Evangelicals understand that sinning has consequences, even if God forgives.

What we're really talking about here is not faith vs. works so much as conversion vs. exaltation.

[Moksha]

Here is how I understand it: Subsequent to the Atoning sacrifice of Jesus. our salvation is given though God's Grace to those who follow the path of Jesus, or else say yes when asked the question in the spirit world.

[Vort]

Some of the other (non-LDS) churches I have attended in my life teach that the only thing needed for salvation is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Through Christ and Christ alone we are saved. I would like to know what the LDS take is on this. Thank you all for your time.

PS I'm not trolling and trying to start fireworks, I am an investigator who has attended LDS services and really would like to know the LDS side of this.

Matthew 7:21-27:

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

[Seanette]

1. Evangelicals DO believe in obeying Christ's commands, being baptized, and even "doing all you can." It's just that we distinguish between conversion (salvation) and living the Christian life in holiness. The latter is done out of gratitude post-conversion. In LDS teaching "salvation" is understood as achieving exaltation to the highest kingdom, which, of course, requires a good deal of faithfulness.

And once again, you're claiming as a standard evangelical position things that do not match what I was taught in evangelical churches. What is claimed to be the official position (especially among anti-Mormon writers who claim to be experts on "correct" evangelical doctrine) is that once you've said those magic words, what you do doesn't matter, and that actually trying to do good somehow "rejects" or "negates" Christ's sacrifice. What I was taught is that obedience and trying to do good constitutes trying to save oneself. (Incidentally, how do you reconcile the "always saved" POV with the claim that someone who has said those magic words, then becomes LDS, loses said "salvation"?)

[prisonchaplain]

Seanette, if it helps, I agree with you that what you were previously taught (works negate Christ's sacrifice) is wrong. I could provide a link to my own church's website paper on salvation to show its official teaching. Suffice to say, we pastors for the most part would be sorely disappointed if our people "got saved," and proceeded to live for the Devil. One of our common cliches is, "God's not selling fire insurance!" The meaning is that you cannot simply "accept Christ" to get out of hell. He must become both Savior and Lord. If he's Lord, then we must do what He says.

IMHO LDS may seldom hear this part of evangelical teaching precisely because the evangelical is trying to correct your perceived works-salvation teaching, and so chooses to emphasis grace, to the neglect of holiness.

And again, Seanette experienced consistent teaching of this nature. I cannot deny what was encountered. But that teaching is unbalanced, and I'm pretty sure that it is atypical of the whole counsel of evangelical teaching in most evangelical churches. And, FWIW, I reject the once saved always saved doctrin. My guess is that believers in it would argue that evangelical converts to your church were not authentically saved in the first place.

Edited August 4, 2009 by prisonchaplain

[Traveler]

Seanette, if it helps, I agree with you that what you were previously taught (works negate Christ's sacrifice) is wrong. I could provide a link to my own church's website paper on salvation to show its official teaching. Suffice to say, we pastors for the most part would be sorely disappointed if our people "got saved," and proceeded to live for the Devil. One of our common cliches is, "God's not selling fire insurance!" The meaning is that you cannot simply "accept Christ" to get out of hell. He must become both Savior and Lord. If he's Lord, then we must do what He says.

IMHO LDS may seldom hear this part of evangelical teaching precisely because the evangelical is trying to correct your perceived works-salvation teaching, and so chooses to emphasis grace, to the neglect of holiness.

And again, Seanette experienced consistent teaching of this nature. I cannot deny what was encountered. But that teaching is unbalanced, and I'm pretty sure that it is atypical of the whole counsel of evangelical teaching in most evangelical churches. And, FWIW, I reject the once saved always saved doctrin. My guess is that believers in it would argue that evangelical converts to your church were not authentically saved in the first place.

I always enjoy your comments Prison Chaplain. For the most part I believe the misunderstandings are small and overemphasized. The word salvation comes from the word salvage. It implies that there is something worthwhile to salvage. The concept of salvage is to cleanse and remove all the impurities or worthless and dross elements and preserve that which has value.

The problem I see with many concepts associated with various Christian concepts is the idea that man has nothing of value to G-d that is worth salvage. In reality I believe that G-d has made it very clear what he will salvage and that any individual without value cannot be salvaged. Though we are all “damaged” goods we need to understand that through an alliance with Christ we do in fact increase our “value”.

The problem I have is when it appears to me that someone refuses to recognize that there is something of value in every person – implying that G-d does not value humans and respect and reward heavenly treasures only to those that lay up in store such things. Or that such things have nothing to do with pleasing G-d as something worth salvaging. I personally believe that the concept of holy or whole is that man invest and contribute toward that which G-d salvages in them.

The Traveler

[Seanette]

And again, Seanette experienced consistent teaching of this nature. I cannot deny what was encountered. But that teaching is unbalanced, and I'm pretty sure that it is atypical of the whole counsel of evangelical teaching in most evangelical churches. And, FWIW, I reject the once saved always saved doctrin. My guess is that believers in it would argue that evangelical converts to your church were not authentically saved in the first place.

Which is also logically inconsistent if what is needed for salvation is to declare acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Savior, as I was taught.

Considering that I hit teachings of this sort in several evangelical churches (including both Assemblies of God and Baptist) in the same geographical area and in quite a bit of evangelical writing, I can't quite convince myself that yours is really the majority view, given that the majority of what I've heard from the evangelical POV contradicts your statement.

It would also help if evangelical authors and preachers did not willfully misrepresent LDS teachings on grace (yes, we recognize that we can't be saved without it. We do believe obedience to the best of our ability is needed, but do not deny the necessity of grace, as so many evangelical anti-Mormon ministries persist in falsely stating we do).

[prisonchaplain]

Short answers:

Traveler, in order to present our need for salvation we may emphasize so strongly our depravity (Calvin called it 'total deparavity') that we overlook the imagio deo that is within each of us. Yes we are highly valued by God. After all, He did love us so much that He sent his Son. I do see your point. We present the necessity, but may miss the beauty and poetry of God's chasing after us.

Seanette...evangelicalism is broad indeed. And, truth be known, the "flavor" of churches can vary greatly, even within a town, even amongst the half dozen Assemblies of God churches that may be there. Suffice to say that the evangelicalism I may speak of is my own. I am a product of evangelical (pentecostal to be more specific) education, and my fellowship is the largest in the National Association of Evangelicals. Nevertheless, for our discussions, I'll refrain from pretending to represent broad evangelicalism as a whole.