Bishop

[Writer_Chick1213]

I attend a small ward with my single mother and younger adopted brother and my family and I have been having some problems with the Bishop. I know the counsel to trust in the Lords servants and I want to follow the counsel of my Bishop but its become very difficult lately. Everytime I talk to him even if its just in the hall at church I feel like he's looking down on me and my family. He often simply refuses my moms requests for help in the manner of priesthood holders helping with a few repairs around the house and request for hometeachers and things like that. However other families ask for help and within weeks there are service projects organized, which members of my family almost always attend ane help out with. In the scriptures it says that the members are supposed to look after the widowed and the fatherless, well my mom is divorced and my father is gone so we don't have any priesthood holders in my house, which is why the support of our bishop is needed. Bishops are supposed to have a confidentiality thing right? I know he's broken that because my sister who now lives elsewhere had cancer and my mom told him and asked for some direction in the matter and help in fasting and prayer. We kept the matter a secret from the ward because we didn't want a big fuss and everyone asking questions but then later his wife comes up to me and asks how my sisters surgery went. So I really feel I can't tell my bishop anything. He really shows no respect for my family at all. And actually no concern for our welbeing really. All of the other young women in our ward have an interview yearly with him but I haven't had one in 4 years unless i've asked for it. Its to the point where i just try and avoid my bishop because I can't stand the way he treats me and my family. My family desperately wants to move or attend another ward, but right now that isn't possible. I'm not sure what to do, his behaviour is causing serious problems. I don't mean to sound like i'm just complaining about him, I realize no one is perfect but when its to the point that its affecting my faith, i'm not sure what to do anymore...any suggestions?

[Jason]

Find a bishop that you like, and attend that ward/branch.

[Idacat]

How does this Bishop treat other single moms in the ward? Does this seem, to your knowledge, to be a pattern??

If he is elderly, I can say that this has, in the past, been the traditional LDS attitude towards single moms, so maybe he isn't up with the times, which are even now not perfect.

I was your mom once, raising the three children of my abusive marriage alone in the 1970's and '80's. Despite the fact that even then there were not just a few divorced single moms raising children alone, I, and others in the same boat were generally treated terribly by the entire ward, including the Bishop.

Oddly enough, my abusive ex husband, tried and convicted in a court of law of both spousal and child abuse,the returned missionary who promptly remarried following our divorce.......then divorced again and who has now been married five times to four different women (one idiot married him twice) has never been treated like a pariah.

It took me years to get over my resentment of the Church's treatment of divorced women following my divorce and years as an outcast, but at least now I do see it getting better, more in line with reality.

Sometimes people cannot easily get past preconceived notions. Maybe this Bishop is one of those and a better person to ask for help might be the Relief Society president, a home teacher, or a visiting teacher.

[begood2]

Writer Chick,

I haven't heard from you in awhile. your post are usually very up beat, so I was a little saddened to read of your present dilemma.

In my ward the prevailing attitude about service work is very positive. We as members feel that, when we help others unselfishly through service work, we are emulating one of the many acts of love and kindness to others, that Jesus Christ has shown us.

We not only help the sick and elderly in our ward, but anyone in need of help, as one neighbor should help another. :)

after a large service project, we might have a wiener roast or barbecue. For small projects, the younger members may go play a little basketball after we have finished.

This coming Saturday, several of the members are going to help a family move. :)

I don't know your bishop.... maybe Idacat is right? Since you can't move right now maybe a better person to ask for help might be; a home teacher, the relief society president or the missionaries as Idacat suggested. Good luck and best wishes! :)

[begood2]

Idacat,

I'm sorry to hear of the prejudicial treatment that you received by members of the church in your earlier years. I'm also glad that you were able to rise above this level of ignorance by its members and remain a member under such trying times. :)

I pray that the church and all of its members will become enlightened about the needs of love , self worth and kindness shown to all of its members! :)

[Writer_Chick1213]

Idacat we're pretty much in the same situation. My entire ward treats us like this not just the bishop, I was hoping the bishop would be a little more understanding but I guess not. Its actually not just our ward but the majority of people I have encountered in the church think the same way about divorced parents. The very first day we moved here we had people from the ward come over and say hi and some priesthood holders help us come unload boxes but it was like as soon as they found out that my mom was divorced it was like we became outcasts. I've found this almost everywhere though. When my sister moved to Utah she actually just lied about her parents being divorced and the treatment she recieves there as compared to here is exact opposite.

As to this being a pattern of our bishop and ward it seems to be in the way that we are treated but there is only one other divorced family and they are quite wealthy so they never have to ask for the help of the church but the treatment they recieve in the social setting of the church is much the same.

There have been a few missionaries that i've met that have been very nice and always been willing to help that i've become friends with. But that has always been ruined by rumors spread by other young women in the ward that I encourage missionaries to break their standards which is completely untrue.

This has become such a problem that most of the time I don't want to attend church at all. I try to avoid the other activities aside from sunday meetings. Its really affecting my faith. I've come to the conclusion that all I can do is wait for another year till I move to BYU Idaho and then do like my sister did and hide my family situation. Which I hate to do and I don't want my mom to think I am ashamed of her because I most certainly am not. I am extremely proud of all that my family and the Lord have accomplished together despite our circumstances. But am I justified in lying about my parents? I know dishonesty is wrong but attending church in that setting is almost unabarable.

[Setheus]

Do what I did when I was a teenager going to church alone ever sunday. Make THEM live up to YOUR standards.

[StrawberryFields]

I am sorry this is happening to you Writer Chick it can't be easy on any of you.

I wished that I could understand why this happens. I think it might have something to do with your mom being available and not wanting the priesthood holders to be tempted by her. Personally, I think that you are right when you talk about your family needing support from your ward and having home teachers etc. I have wondered why they don't send more couples to single parent families. If a blessing was needed they could always get another priesthood holder to assist your home teacher.

If it were me, I would request an interview with the bishop and then ask him point blank what your family has done to be treated the way you have. He may not recognize they problem at all giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Writer_Chick1213@Jul 30 2005, 03:06 PM

Its actually not just our ward but the majority of people I have encountered in the church think the same way about divorced parents. The very first day we moved here we had people from the ward come over and say hi and some priesthood holders help us come unload boxes but it was like as soon as they found out that my mom was divorced it was like we became outcasts. I've found this almost everywhere though. When my sister moved to Utah she actually just lied about her parents being divorced and the treatment she recieves there as compared to here is exact opposite.

Maybe if everybody or most everybody else responds to ya'll in a certain way, maybe it's not them (the whole Church can't be jerks) so maybe it's something bout ya'll.

My parents divorced when I was young and I thought most people (in the various wards we lived in) went out of their way to include our family and help compensate for our single parent home.

My mother did report that when she first got divorced that some people treated her shabbily - that was in Utah in the mid 60's to be sure - but that was some, not all or even most.

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Snow+Jul 31 2005, 01:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Jul 31 2005, 01:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Writer_Chick1213@Jul 30 2005, 03:06 PM

Its actually not just our ward but the majority of people I have encountered in the church think the same way about divorced parents. The very first day we moved here we had people from the ward come over and say hi and some priesthood holders help us come unload boxes but it was like as soon as they found out that my mom was divorced it was like we became outcasts. I've found this almost everywhere though. When my sister moved to Utah she actually just lied about her parents being divorced and the treatment she recieves there as compared to here is exact opposite.

Maybe if everybody or most everybody else responds to ya'll in a certain way, maybe it's not them (the whole Church can't be jerks) so maybe it's something bout ya'll.

Writer Chick~ It has nothing to do with "yall" believe me! You and your family have done nothing wrong to warrrent the behavior and attitude shown towards you. There are some really good wards in the church and there are some really bad ones. This type of problem isn't isolated to just one certain area....unfortunatly it happens to different people in different areas. A woman, who was doing research on the treatment of divorced/single parents within the church, got ahold of me awhile back to let me know that I wasn't to blame myself for the inconsiderate behavior shown to me from church members. That I had done nothing wrong. It's just an attitude that some church members get...... that they are better than others because "they" have the perfect little mormon life and "you " don't.

I continued going to church for a long time by myself, because I wasn't going to give up what I believed in because of a handful of yaahoos. The guys have very good points "rise above this level of ignorance", continue to show them " YOUR standards" and perhaps finding a different ward/branch is an option after contacting the bishop or other leaders and asking what the underlying problem is. (well....you KNOW what it is) I think you need to exhaust all avenues within your ward before giving up on it.

Idacat...you know how it feels ....and you didn't let it ruin your faith....some single moms aren't as strong, and you should be commended

SF...thoughtful as always......

Guys.....good answers!

Snow..."maybe it's something bout ya'll." You should be smacked up alongside the head for that post.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Snow@Jul 31 2005, 02:39 AM

Maybe if everybody or most everybody else responds to ya'll in a certain way, maybe it's not them (the whole Church can't be jerks) so maybe it's something bout ya'll.

My parents divorced when I was young and I thought most people (in the various wards we lived in) went out of their way to include our family and help compensate for our single parent home.

My mother did report that when she first got divorced that some people treated her shabbily - that was in Utah in the mid 60's to be sure - but that was some, not all or even most.

Yes, the whole ward can be oblivious to the needs of this family. Unfortunately people get tunnel vision and sometimes don't see how they are hurting others.

[Snow]

Originally posted by lindy9556@Jul 31 2005, 02:43 AM

Snow..."maybe it's something bout ya'll." You should be smacked up alongside the head for that post.

Get real.

If someone came to LDStalk and posted that they lived in a ward where there was this girl (from a divorced family) that made generalized and sweeping allegations that everyone in the ward treated her and her family poorly, and that the new poster was offended by such untrue allegations -- then you would be defending that person. Just because Writer-chick says she is blameless and everyone else in her ward is against her, doesn't make it true.

What's more likely is that half the people in her ward don't care or don't pay attention to her and her family, some members do care, some members would care if they knew more, and some members are insensitive and some are jerks. Why is that a more likely scenario? Because that's the way the world really is. It's very improbable that the whole ward could be jerks. How could that happen. Would the original owners of the land refuse to sell houses to people moving into the area to nice people? Could an evil spirit of malevolence infect the entire congregation? Might the sacrament water be spiked with bad medicine?

No - of course not.

If it's not you but it's most everybody else ... then it's probably you.

Is it likely that a request to the Bishop to get home teachers would be turned down? No - that is not likely. Think it through:

-Will you give me Home Teachers?

=No I will not.

-Why not?

=Because you are divorced.

It doesn't happen that way. More likely the home teaching assignment has been given to the High Priest because the Elder's Quorum doesn't get the non-married ladies and the High Priest Group leader is dropping the ball. That's a much more likely situation. Sure, maybe the Bishop is less than perfectly engaged in helping all members and reaching out to divorced families, and maybe some members are snots, just as it may be that this family in question is hypersensitive or over-demanding, or weird and puts off the other members.

We can never know what is happening in this case becasue we are not there. But the case I presented is much more reasonable.

[Snow]

Oh - and Writer-Chick,

I don't know you or your situation and I am not making any accusations. I am simply asking you to consider if your perspective in the only possible perspective.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Snow@Jul 31 2005, 03:39 PM

What's more likely is that half the people in her ward don't care or don't pay attention to her and her family, some members do care, some members would care if they knew more, and some members are insensitive and some are jerks.

I will agree with your description above because many wards that I have been in are that way.

Not knowing all that you know about the single women being assigned to the High Priests etc. Writer Chick and her family have been hurt. Snow please try to be a bit sensitive with her she is hurting because she feels discriminated against because her family doesn't fit into the "norm". I have seen what she describes and so have others who have replied to her post.

I wonder Snow if you have ever felt like you didn't fit into the "norm" at one time or another. I feel that the LDS church has a long way to go in teaching acceptance of all of its members. It's really too bad when a church goes out of it's way to preach perfection but then falls short in accepting and embracing those who need the most help.

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Snow+Jul 31 2005, 02:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Jul 31 2005, 02:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--lindy9556@Jul 31 2005, 02:43 AM

Snow..."maybe it's something bout ya'll." You should be smacked up alongside the head for that post.

Get real.

I AM real

I lived thru the same kind of feelings that WriterChick and Idacat tried explaining. Are you telling me that MY feelings and experiences AREN'T real?

*Then I take a deep breath and calm down, realizing that sometimes it's hard for a man to walk a mile in the shoes of a single mom and see things thru her eyes.*

Maybe I understood what WriterChick was saying because I have spent so much time with the young people.....not necessarily just in church..... and I understand what was meant by "entire" . I think you took it as ENTIRE litterally.

I'm not in for a tit for tat on her thread with you, I just wanted to try to help you realize that sometimes....things happen exactly as they are told. Sometimes....not all the time SOME....I'm thinking that you have a problem with that 4 letter word.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Jul 31 2005, 03:09 PM

I wonder Snow if you have ever felt like you didn't fit into the "norm" at one time or another.

Of course I have felt that way - a lot. I am not the most gregarious person in the world and I can feel out of place as much as anyone. When that happens, I look to myself to fix it and don't blame others that I don't fit in.

I feel that the LDS church has a long way to go in teaching acceptance of all of its members. It's really too bad when a church goes out of it's way to preach perfection but then falls short in accepting and embracing those who need the most help.

Ya, it's a shame that none of us are perfect and fall short of the mark. I don't blame the Church that humans are human.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Snow+Jul 31 2005, 07:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Jul 31 2005, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Strawberry Fields@Jul 31 2005, 03:09 PM

I wonder Snow if you have ever felt like you didn't fit into the "norm" at one time or another.

Of course I have felt that way - a lot. I am not the most gregarious person in the world and I can feel out of place as much as anyone. When that happens, I look to myself to fix it and don't blame others that I don't fit in.

.

The church as a whole revolves so much of what the perfect family should be. Writer Chick can't fix her situation by looking into herself.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Snow+Jul 31 2005, 07:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Jul 31 2005, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Strawberry Fields@Jul 31 2005, 03:09 PM

I feel that the LDS church has a long way to go in teaching acceptance of all of its members. It's really too bad when a church goes out of it's way to preach perfection but then falls short in accepting and embracing those who need the most help.

Ya, it's a shame that none of us are perfect and fall short of the mark. I don't blame the Church that humans are human.

Snow there is a BIG difference here, you are an adult man and she is still in her teens.

I don't blame the church for humans being human either. I just wished that everyone didn't feel the need to pretend to be so perfect. Perfection within the saints is not real and thus leaves others who don't see warts on every family to feel inadequate.

Writer Chick your parents might be divorced which is something that most everyone could come to know. There are people with high callings in the church who have even more serious hidden problems that go on behind closed doors. You should not feel any different then any other young women in your ward. Once you get to really know people you will see that all families have some sort of difficulties in their lives.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Jul 31 2005, 06:28 PM

The church as a whole revolves so much of what the perfect family should be. Writer Chick can't fix her situation by looking into herself.

Now how on earth could you possibly know that?

Don't you think that if you were to talk to the Bishop of RS Pres or one of the majority of members of the ward that she blamed, that you would get an alternate point of view? I could be wrong but reason says otherwise.

Let Writer-C speak for herself. Could I be correct or somewhat correct?

[john doe]

You know, Snow, in his own way, may just have a point, though.

I, personally, have a really hard time with certain people in my ward. Some people, through some or even no fault of their own, just turn me off with their words, comments, actions, or even non-actions. Like the guy down the street who is running for bishop and likely will be the next one unless something shocking happens. Or the cubmaster I used to hometeach and, rumor has it, occasionally abuses his wife. Or the YM president, who decided he didn't want to deal with the flag fundraising project this year, and as a result 100 flags sit unused in a storage unit on holidays because he refused to let individuals pay to use the flags and store them in their own homes this year. Or the former first counselor's wife, who finally got her way and they moved away because our ward just isn't "righteous" enough for her tastes. I could go on and on. As much as I like my bishop, some people wonder if it's not time for him to be released, if only it weren't for the fact that the "heir-apparent" may be the next one and may not do what some think he should do.

But these are all just individuals. The whole ward doesn't act like jerks, just certain ones. The ward as a whole, as Snow pointed out, has all kinds of different people in it, people who are jerks, people who gossip, people who know what's going on, people who don't know what's going on. I also find it hard to believe that a whole ward purposely would knowingly treat a single mother and her family like crap. Some individuals in the ward? Sure. But even then, they may not be doing it purposely.

From my experience, most people in most wards don't stop long enough to consider how someone else not in their small circle of acquaintances views their actions or non-actions. They just go about their normal lives, giving little thought to what someone they hardly know thinks of them. I know that I personally am too busy providing for my family to stop to think about how the fact that I didn't stop to talk to my neighbor at the store may make them think that I am neglecting their need for socialization. I don't have time to socialize with people, and it is hard for me to make plans with any concreteness. I have a hard enough time just getting together with my family for activities. Does that makes me a bad person or just an extremely busy one?

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Snow+Jul 31 2005, 08:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Jul 31 2005, 08:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Strawberry Fields@Jul 31 2005, 06:28 PM

The church as a whole revolves so much of what the perfect family should be. Writer Chick can't fix her situation by looking into herself.

Now how on earth could you possibly know that?

Don't you think that if you were to talk to the Bishop of RS Pres or one of the majority of members of the ward that she blamed, that you would get an alternate point of view? I could be wrong but reason says otherwise.

Let Writer-C speak for herself. Could I be correct or somewhat correct?

Huh?

How could I know what?

You must be the typical male and I must be the typical female because we think nothing alike.

I will try to explain what I said above…

I know the church teaches family, family, family. WC does not have the typical family because her mom is now single...would you agree with that?

She can't fix her situation into being the norm because she is the child in the family.

[begood2]

SF,

It doesn't matter whether you are from Venus or Mars ... I understand your post and I agree with you 100%.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields+Jul 31 2005, 06:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Strawberry Fields @ Jul 31 2005, 06:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Snow@Jul 31 2005, 08:39 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Strawberry Fields@Jul 31 2005, 06:28 PM

The church as a whole revolves so much of what the perfect family should be. Writer Chick can't fix her situation by looking into herself.

Now how on earth could you possibly know that?

Don't you think that if you were to talk to the Bishop of RS Pres or one of the majority of members of the ward that she blamed, that you would get an alternate point of view? I could be wrong but reason says otherwise.

Let Writer-C speak for herself. Could I be correct or somewhat correct?

Huh?

How could I know what?

You must be the typical male and I must be the typical female because we think nothing alike.

You said, "Writer Chick can't fix her situation by looking into herself."

Immediately after I said, "Now how on earth could you possibly know that?"

One needn't be male or female for that to make sense.

...and a single parent family is not the majority arrangement but even among LDS families, it is not particularly unusual.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Snow@Jul 31 2005, 10:21 PM

Huh?

How could I know what?

You must be the typical male and I must be the typical female because we think nothing alike.

You said, "Writer Chick can't fix her situation by looking into herself."

Immediately after I said, "Now how on earth could you possibly know that?"

One needn't be male or female for that to make sense.

...and a single parent family is not the majority arrangement but even among LDS families, it is not particularly unusual.

Writer Chicks situation is one where she feels like an outcast based on the fact the she lives with her single mother. It is a fact the single women are treated differently within the church and this is something she can not change by looking into herself.

The only thing she can change is how she chooses to perceive the way she is treated.

[Writer_Chick1213]

ok I didn't mean to come off sounding like my ward is evil. I was talking about the general attitude of the members in this area. Snow has a point that its not every single member is out to get me...however in my experience the authority figures in the ward such as the bishop, the relief society president, and the young womens president do treat my family differently. And yes it might be partly my fault, i'm not perfect and neither is my family there have been times where my family has been in the wrong too but i don't think that justifies the treatment we have recieved.

Now how on earth could you possibly know that?

Don't you think that if you were to talk to the Bishop of RS Pres or one of the majority of members of the ward that she blamed, that you would get an alternate point of view? I could be wrong but reason says otherwise.

Let Writer-C speak for herself. Could I be correct or somewhat correct?

If you were to bring up my family to the bishop or RS president in a casual non accusing manner just asking what they thought of my family they would tell you some pretty negative things and point out all of our struggles and critize us....how would i know this? because there were a set of senior couple missionaries serving in our ward that were extremely kind to us and became like family and they did ask the bishop, RS president, YM/YW leaders and they got that response. They told us they couldn't believe the things that were said about my family and the way we were treated in the ward. They said that judgements were made based on surface impressions and stereotyping the situation. So its not just my perspective. I can understand how snow would come to that conclusion...i've examined my attitude and thought the same thing, that maybe its me that needs to change. Well i've tried to change and accept my bishop and my ward but something tells me thats not how the church is supposed to function. I don't know maybe I am still wrong but it is my feeling that there is prejudice in the church against families that do not fit the perfect description.

I want to thank those who have given me advice and explored the issue with me. Both my mother and I have spoken with the bishop before and nothing has come of it. Maybe the Lord has some lesson for my family to learn through this trial. It has taught us not to rely so much on the structure of the church but to rely on ourselves and the Lord more than anything. So in a year I will move to Rexburg Idaho and have a completely fresh start and my mom hopes to do the same soon after. I've come to the conclusion that I just have to ignore the treatment and unless I absolutely need something from my ward i'll manage on my own. I know the church is true and that the members are just human so i'll just hold to my faith survive the next year and start fresh in a year. You know the saying kill them with kindness? Well I've decided i'll attend all my meetings with a big smile and try and do my best to live the gospel despite the fact that hurtful comments from others have shaken my faith in the past. The Lord knows i'm doing my best and that me and my mother are faithful so I guess thats all that counts.

Writer Chicks situation is one where she feels like an outcast based on the fact the she lives with her single mother. It is a fact the single women are treated differently within the church and this is something she can not change by looking into herself.

The only thing she can change is how she chooses to perceive the way she is treated.

Thats exactly how things are and you're right i'm just going to choose to change the way I think about it and focus on the gospel more than the members of the gospel.