Public resistance to church...why?


prisonchaplain
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I stand by my assessment that you are lying about who you are. You were the one to state you are willing to produce evidence. If you are, I invite you to produce it. If you are unwilling, I invite you to not state credentials you can not prove. If you're saying that Bishop Jonah, the Metropolitan of the OCA who was elected back in 2008 had something to do with your training, your credentials will have no problems being validated: A couple of quick calls and I am more than willing to get on here and tell the world about your credentials.

Looking up James Paffhausen, can you tell me if you spent time with him at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley or did he train you during his time in Russia? Or was it when the newly-called Archimandrite Fr. Jonah took over as auxiliary bishop and chancellor of the Diocese of the South?

I suspect your answer will be that he is your spiritual father and that you agree with him despite never having met the man, but if he is more than that and actually a part of your credentials, he makes it remarkably easy to check out your background.

It's still an 'Appeal to Authority' logical fallacy, but I am more than willing to admit I was wrong.

Metropolitan Jonah was the man who accepted me into orthodoxy when he was abbot and just Father Jonah at St John of Shanghai monastery in point Reyes ca. where I ended up living and worked at for a time. Try again. Just making your self look stupid not me. I told you pm me a e-mail or phone number and I will give ya more to choke on.

Edited by Lstinthwrld
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I stand by my assessment that you are lying about who you are. You were the one to state you are willing to produce evidence. If you are, I invite you to produce it. If you are unwilling, I invite you to not state credentials you can not prove. If you're saying that Bishop Jonah, the Metropolitan of the OCA who was elected back in 2008 had something to do with your training, your credentials will have no problems being validated: A couple of quick calls and I am more than willing to get on here and tell the world about your credentials.

Looking up James Paffhausen, can you tell me if you spent time with him at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley or did he train you during his time in Russia? Or was it when the newly-called Archimandrite Fr. Jonah took over as auxiliary bishop and chancellor of the Diocese of the South?

I suspect your answer will be that he is your spiritual father and that you agree with him despite never having met the man, but if he is more than that and actually a part of your credentials, he makes it remarkably easy to check out your background.

It's still an 'Appeal to Authority' logical fallacy, but I am more than willing to admit I was wrong.

You got a high opinion of your self if you believe the world needs YOU to validate ME. In the end I don't give a hoot if an internet dwelling geek like you believes me or not. We will never meet you have no impact on my life other than a minor annoyance here. So wanna talk man up lets talk on the phone.

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I stand by my assessment that you are lying about who you are. You were the one to state you are willing to produce evidence. If you are, I invite you to produce it. If you are unwilling, I invite you to not state credentials you can not prove. If you're saying that Bishop Jonah, the Metropolitan of the OCA who was elected back in 2008 had something to do with your training, your credentials will have no problems being validated: A couple of quick calls and I am more than willing to get on here and tell the world about your credentials.

Looking up James Paffhausen, can you tell me if you spent time with him at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley or did he train you during his time in Russia? Or was it when the newly-called Archimandrite Fr. Jonah took over as auxiliary bishop and chancellor of the Diocese of the South?

I suspect your answer will be that he is your spiritual father and that you agree with him despite never having met the man, but if he is more than that and actually a part of your credentials, he makes it remarkably easy to check out your background.

It's still an 'Appeal to Authority' logical fallacy, but I am more than willing to admit I was wrong.

Whats wrong no high and mighty response yet. Come on dude your letting you readership down.

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I'm still waiting for you to prove you are who you say you are, which you have claimed to be able to do. I'm not providing you my private email or phone number. You offered to provide it, there are perfectly adequate ways of providing that on this website.

And I still stand by my assessment. You certainly don't sound like someone who has spent their life in contemplation of the divine, searching for truth.

Instead of arguing, since that's silly as you aren't providing what you said you would, I instead will quote Proverbs 26:4-5

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Whats wrong no high and mighty response yet. Come on dude your letting you readership down.

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I'm still waiting for you to prove you are who you say you are, which you have claimed to be able to do. I'm not providing you my private email or phone number. You offered to provide it, there are perfectly adequate ways of providing that on this website.

And I still stand by my assessment. You certainly don't sound like someone who has spent their life in contemplation of the divine, searching for truth.

Instead of arguing, since that's silly as you aren't providing what you said you would, I instead will quote Proverbs 26:4-5

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

No I sound like someone who has lost all faith and feel like I have wasted a lot of my life but I cannot stop searching and have admitted so. Lets see who do I claim to be. A agnostic seeker who likes to ask questions. I am willing to provide my credentials (that I don't even consider valid as I HAVE NO FAITH in the christianity that they are based in) you wanna call me a liar be a man and at least do it over the phone. I am totally willing to call you or have you call me. Your choice. Be a man don't hide behind your computer. Don't want to do this then shut up and keep your 'oh I will validate you to the world if you can prove yourself to me' crap to yourself. I have shot down your assumptions about me so far and I will keep doing it because what I said is true and I will prove it to you. If you are man enough. Personally I don't think you are. But if you prove me wrong I will validate your manhood to the world.

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Please feel free to provide the evidence you claim you can via this website. A phone does not transmit the images required for you to prove yourself, so I'm not wasting my time.

You seem offended that, when you said you could prove your credentials to anyone who asked, I asked you to back up your claim. Go ahead and do what you have said.

I quote again to you, Proverbs 26:4-5

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

And again, I stand by my assertion that you do not sound like someone who is searching for the divine. You sound more like one of Michel Onfray's followers using his proselytizing methods.

You have said you could prove you are who you say you are. That doesn't require a phone. I invite you to provide the information via this website.

No I sound like someone who has lost all faith and feel like I

have wasted a lot of my life but I cannot stop searching and have admitted so. Lets see who do I claim to be. A agnostic seeker who likes to ask questions. I am willing to provide my credentials (that I don't even consider valid as I HAVE NO FAITH in the christianity that they are based in) you wanna call me a liar be a man and at least do it over the phone. I am totally willing to call you or have you call me. Your choice. Be a man don't hide behind your computer. Don't want to do this then shut up and keep your 'oh I will validate you to the world if you can prove yourself to me' crap to yourself. I have shot down your assumptions about me so far and I will keep doing it because what I said is true and I will prove it to you. If you are man enough. Personally I don't think you are. But if you prove me wrong I will validate your manhood to the world.

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Please feel free to provide the evidence you claim you can via this website. A phone does not transmit the images required for you to prove yourself, so I'm not wasting my time.

You seem offended that, when you said you could prove your credentials to anyone who asked, I asked you to back up your claim. Go ahead and do what you have said.

I quote again to you, Proverbs 26:4-5

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

And again, I stand by my assertion that you do not sound like someone who is searching for the divine. You sound more like one of Michel Onfray's followers using his proselytizing methods.

You have said you could prove you are who you say you are. That doesn't require a phone. I invite you to provide the information via this website.

Yeah I thought not. Good night.

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Ok, what happened to the smiley bouncing faces?

I think the smiling faces went away when Lost posted:

Listen I spent a large part of a decade in an eastern orthodox monastery and seminary I have studied with some of the holiest men christianity has to offer. I am currently a certified minister and chaplin. I have heard and hear just don't agree with absolutism or totalitarian b.s. I can show you diplomas and certificates that took many many years of both secular and religious education.

So noe lets see yours.

And I said that I would love to see those credentials. ;) As many people on here know, I'm a big fan of proof. 'Quote source' is something I will often say on here. I believe I've even said it to you, Ari.

He said he had great experience in this field and had proof of it. I asked for that proof, he then demanded my telephone number as if a telephone would be able to provide these certifications he has.

Debunking is a hobby of mine and I think he took it personally that I called him on something he had said.

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FT, I think it's wise to back up what we say, but it's oftentimes difficult to prove these things online due to privacy. The problem I have is with copyright issues. I used to publish a newsletter here in Phoenix. In order to reprint articles, it was necessary to get permission from the author. I understand all of this stuff, but I do know that eyes are on the Church, watching everything we do. As I was admonished, "tread lightly". :)

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Interesting discussion, folks.

Let me lighten it up a bit...

On the "one way to God" requiring proof:

What, you don't like rice? Tell me Michael, how could a billion Chinese people be wrong?

On all the yada-yada credentials from all these monastery stuff encouraging me to be impressed by high-and-mighty learning:

Now, what do you have against LDS? You go to all these Christian, Buddhist, Dalai Lama schools but never set foot in the MTC? What's up with that? :D

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FT, I think it's wise to back up what we say, but it's oftentimes difficult to prove these things online due to privacy. The problem I have is with copyright issues. I used to publish a newsletter here in Phoenix. In order to reprint articles, it was necessary to get permission from the author. I understand all of this stuff, but I do know that eyes are on the Church, watching everything we do. As I was admonished, "tread lightly". :)

Here's the problem, Ari:

He stated this like a fact and acted like he was more than willing to provide it. However, if you look at the various posts he's made:

1) They have all been faith destroying or contentious.

"To non-LDS: Why do you think LDS get so defensive when asked questions?" (How would he think this wouldn't be contentious? It starts with a derogatory remark about people in the LDS faith.)

"Give me proof God exists! But it can't be found in the bible and it can't be by people who believe in the bible." - When offered proof, he didn't even ask what it was. He simply said that he wouldn't believe anything written by scholars who are in the FAITH(emphasis his). If someone had proof God existed and he wasn't faithful, wouldn't that suggest he was openly rebellious? So he will only accept proof from people who know God exists, but refuse to believe. I bet those are few and far between.

2) He has claimed authority. In fact, in the quote I gave, he openly attacks another member and threatens to show his own credentials. Then, when I asked to see what he so freely offered, he became very defensive and refused to show them.

I have noticed some inconsistencies and I suspect he's looking to cause contention, which is why I took him up on his offer to provide proof.

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Here's the problem, Ari:

He stated this like a fact and acted like he was more than willing to provide it. However, if you look at the various posts he's made:

I have noticed some inconsistencies and I suspect he's looking to cause contention, which is why I took him up on his offer to provide proof.

Honestly, FT, I don't read the majority of what posters say if it's derogatory. I just don't have time for it, nor do I want to fill my head with negativity regarding the Church. I understand your concern, and I don't discount it. However, we can't control what other people say, think, or do. And proving one's legitimacy online is extremely difficult.

P.S. Sometimes all that's necessary is to offer our fellowship. :)

Edited by GrandmaAri
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Honestly, FT, I don't read the majority of what posters say if it's derogatory. I just don't have time for it, nor do I want to fill my head with negativity regarding the Church. I understand your concern, and I don't discount it. However, we can't control what other people say, think, or do. And proving one's legitimacy online is extremely difficult.

P.S. Sometimes all that's necessary is to offer our fellowship. :)

I wish I had your calm demeanor, Ari. In this case, I would say you are far more in the right than I am. I worry sometimes that people like this who go unchallenged will challenge the faith of the weak saint, so I hop on my white horse and go trying to save the world.

I hope I have been able to protect some people, but I suspect more often than not my good intentions don't lead to what I hope. ;)

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I wish I had your calm demeanor, Ari. In this case, I would say you are far more in the right than I am. I worry sometimes that people like this who go unchallenged will challenge the faith of the weak saint, so I hop on my white horse and go trying to save the world.

I hope I have been able to protect some people, but I suspect more often than not my good intentions don't lead to what I hope. ;)

My friend, it has taken me nearly 60 yrs. to mellow! I've often been referred to in the past as a "bull in a China shop". lol I appreciate your passion...at least you care, which is more than I can say about many people. I have no tolerance for apathy! I can feel your spirit, and I have faith that your heart is in the right place. :)

P.S. Meekness isn't weakness. ;)

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So can I expect that you will provide the credentials you had promised? If not, I invite you not to make claims on your authority that you do not have.

I have already in many posts told you I can and will but not on an open forum where every one and their brother has access to my information. You say you feel the need to debunk me and defend the faith huh? Who are you that you believe you are high and mighty enough to do this. Makes my point about ego. Do you really think the mormon religion needs you as a defender when they have so many well trained/educated apologists? I always enjoy these self appointed defenders of the faith that more often than not exhibit a very non christian attitude while defending christianiy. Oxymoron anybody?

Like I said Funky One I will provide you my credentials (once again that I have no faith in the christianity that they are based in) but it will happen in a way that I can be sure you aren't an internet criminal. Deal with it.

Maybe the reason you are so defensive and on a crusade here is the weak saint you speak of who you are worried about reading faith destroying material here is you.

And just to be very clear I tell you and everyone here that I have no faith in christianity right? So how do you get that I am claiming some authority when the credentials we are speaking of are based in christianity? Seems like quite a erroneous leap of assumption on your part doesn't it?

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I wish I had your calm demeanor, Ari. In this case, I would say you are far more in the right than I am. I worry sometimes that people like this who go unchallenged will challenge the faith of the weak saint, so I hop on my white horse and go trying to save the world.

I hope I have been able to protect some people, but I suspect more often than not my good intentions don't lead to what I hope. ;)

You did the right thing.

I appreceate you and I am sure many others do also.

Keep up the Good fight brother.

It matters not that Lstinthwrld has no faith in what he may have learned earning the credentials he may hold.

He told us He could show us.

We say OK, go ahead.

We have explained ourselves well enough. His turn.

Bro. Rudick

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You did the right thing.

I appreceate you and I am sure many others do also.

Keep up the Good fight brother.

It matters not that Lstinthwrld has no faith in what he may have learned earning the credentials he may hold.

He told us He could show us.

We say OK, go ahead.

We have explained ourselves well enough. His turn.

Bro. Rudick

What have you explained to me? Nothing you have shown me that you are fanatical automatons with little to no capacity for thought outside of the group think of an organized religion. Please. Do better your dear and fluffy lord expects it from you.

Until either you or Funky One man up and offer some contact info (I will provide you the information you request) Shut up and keep your high and mighty crap to yourself. I am done with both of you empty shirts who just want to preserve your good ol' boys club here.

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Hey, Lost? If I was an internet criminal, any form of evidence you could show me would necessarily put you at risk. The phone does not and cannot allow you to provide the evidence you're saying you have.;)

I will not be providing you the contact info you're referring to because you're the one who has said you're willing to provide credentials. I do not require any such credentials.

Based upon what you've said, you really have no place here. I wish you well in your endeavors, but lds.net is not a place for you. You're contentious and seek to tear down in others rather than build up in yourself.

Some have given you the benefit of the doubt on your credentials. Fair enough. You have, however, shown yourself to be seeking only either to wallow in self-pity at the expense of others or to actively tear down others. I would seek what you're looking for because you won't find it here.

I wish you well.

What have you explained to me? Nothing you have shown me that you are fanatical automatons with little to no capacity for thought outside of the group think of an organized religion. Please. Do better your dear and fluffy lord expects it from you.

Until either you or Funky One man up and offer some contact info (I will provide you the information you request) Shut up and keep your high and mighty crap to yourself. I am done with both of you empty shirts who just want to preserve your good ol' boys club here.

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