Controversial, I'll Bet, But...

[Fiannan]

Interesting topic in our local newspaper today (not in the USA though). There was a story about the shortage of men donating, well, germinal cells to fertility clinics so women can use these donations to become pregnant.

I once read the official stance of the church on women using these services. It frowns on single women using these when marriage prospects look bleak -- and they feel time is running out for babies. Didn't look like there would be any actual sanctions on women doing this though since no sexual relations have taken place. For marrieds where the man is sterile or maybe has a bad genetic disorder there seemed only a mild type of advise to consider everything first but still no sanctions appear to exist.

Now what about for those who donate sperm or egg cells? Should a worthy priesthood holder or sister feel bad about making such donations? They are, after all, allowing spirit children to come down and while you may not be able to control the religion of the women who use these services it seem apparent that these are VERY wanted children. However, since one could argue that certain people are destined for certain family lines (Moses was, after all, a Hebrew even though he was raised an Egyptian by loving parents). Would one be throwing connected spirits to the wind, so to speak, if they donated or since God knows all wouldn't these spirits have been destined to be raised by these recipeints of egg or sperm in the first place?

My wife thought it would be cool to donate egg cells (our children are healthy, intelligent, etc.) but found out they don't take female doners in their late 30s. I wouldn't have a problem personally with it (her or me) and I did read an article about a Mormon businessman in Australia who donates because when his wife innitially couldn't have kids (later did) he decided he couldn't bear others not having the opportunity to raise kids because of one of the partners being sterile.

Curious as to what people think.

[seamusz]

Well, I think that it would not be responsible to donate sperm or eggs to a fertility center. I think that there are enough children in this world who need good homes that it would be selfish to spend so much money so that you can have your "own" child...

My wife and I have had a fair amount of complications with our pregnancies. We are going to try once more to conceive, but if there are complications again, we have already talked quite seriously about adoption. I think it is safe to say that it is nearly as important a gift to give a child of a loving spiritual household than to bear a child yourself and give the same. Just think how grateful that child will be in there life when they see how lucky they are to have been adopted by you.

[pushka]

http://www.channel4.com/health/microsites/...perminator.html

Unfortunately this particular LDS guy took his mission to help couples get their 'own' children a little too far...it was thought that part of his reason for doing so was down to his LDS beliefs about the many blessings he could get for fathering more and more children...it is believed he has 75 children to the women who visited his clinic, as well as his own 4 in his family.

[Jason]

I may be wrong here....

...but wouldn't a male "donation" require you to [gulp] break a mormon moral law?

I mean, unless there's some way to harvest those little swimmers without the usual friction? B)

[DisRuptive1]

I understand your issue didn't concern the United States but here's some info. In the United States, donors are not anonymous. The child has a right to know who the parent is. The child's right supercedes a right that the father never had, just one that the banks told him he had, the right to being anonymous. So those who donated in their early years might have a kid some up to their door and say that they are their child. Eventually I bet it will lead to child support. That's like getting $50 for each donation and then having to pay $400 a month (minimum) for 18 years in child support.

[Fiannan]

No, the US has a policy of annonomous donation of egg and sperm -- and no legal precedent for any financial obligations. In Europe there is also no legal financial obligations on a doner but in countries like Sweden the child has a right to seek the biological parent when they reach 18 (thus the reason for sperm shortages in Sweden and many Swedish women going to Denmark where the law is not the same).

Again, what are people's views on the spiritual connotations? Is there something that might make such donations a violation of God's laws or design? One wonders, God established a law in the Old Testament that if your brother died without offspring you had to take his wife (manditory polygamy I might add if you are already married) and get her pregnant -- yet the children were to look to your dead brother as thier ancestor. How might donating eggs or sperm differ? And aren't you helping create families in the long-run?

Also, there is no more immorality in the act that will give the physician your sperm that there is in taking a medication that contains a powerful drug as a pain reliever. Of course, that's just my opinion.

[daizymae]

As far as giving such a donation goes, we know that the church doesn't encourage it. As far as disciplinary action that might result from such a donation, I don't know. The church handbook isn't specific about consequences in this regard, so I imagine that it would be to the discretion of the bishop.....but if someone is giving the donation, they obviously don't have a problem with it, so the odds that they would go to their bishop to discuss it are small.

One of the biggest problems that I see with such a practice from Latter-Day Saints is that once you give the donation, you no longer have any control over who it goes to....which means it could be used to parent a child into a situation that is not in harmony with church teachings (ie A single-parent household or a homosexual relationship). We've been taught that the family is central to God's plan and that we are to do everything we can to keep our own intact, so it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to contribute to the possibilty of a family that would be contrary to that.

[Jason]

Ok, I'll ask the question since nobody else has:

Will a child born of LDS parents become a "child of the covenant"? In other words, if a Mormon male donates sperm and ends up with a few dozen "kids" are they automatically sealed to him in the hereafter, since they are his "seed" and all?

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason@Sep 8 2005, 10:37 AM

Ok, I'll ask the question since nobody else has:

Will a child born of LDS parents become a "child of the covenant"?  In other words, if a Mormon male donates sperm and ends up with a few dozen "kids" are they automatically sealed to him in the hereafter, since they are his "seed" and all?

←

Interesting question. I wonder if they are born into another LDS home under the covenant of those parents, to whom it will belong.

Maybe the key word would be 'born'. Giving sperm doesn't equate to 'giving life' I don't think. Not every sperm makes a baby.

I also remember a story in the Old testiment where the Lord was angry with someone for spilling their 'seed' on the ground in order to prevent pregnancy.

I don't know what the official doctrine on the donation would be when it comes to who belongs to the sperm eternally once it is 'given' away willingly.

[Fiannan]

Interesting point I just thought of though, in some European nations a doner can either leave their name with the clinic, write letters to their future children (genetically speaking of course) or if the child want to they can look up the records (with no financial obligations for the woman or man).

Now let's say you father (if male) 25 children in which most do accept your invitation to visit totally voluntarily. More than likely they were not raised in any religion (if in post-Christian Nordic Europe). Yet when they meet you they might just be interested in the religion of their father (and they would, while not being born under the covenant, still have your patriarchal lineage and maybe a propensity to be open to the Gospel).

Gives the parable of the seeds a whole new meaning I suppose.

[seamusz]

Originally posted by Jason@Sep 8 2005, 10:37 AM

Ok, I'll ask the question since nobody else has:

Will a child born of LDS parents become a "child of the covenant"?  In other words, if a Mormon male donates sperm and ends up with a few dozen "kids" are they automatically sealed to him in the hereafter, since they are his "seed" and all?

←

This is why I think that it is best for us not to participate. This issue reminds me of the churches stance on cremation. We are asked not to choose cremation, not because everything won't work out if we choose to be cremated, but it does not treat the special gift of a body with the appropriate respect. Likewise, to just give away some of our reproductive bits, the Lord has given to us, seems to me to not be responsible. This isn't to say that the giver isn't giving in an appropriate spirit, but that he/she doesn't really have the right to give that which was given to them, to another... Like I said before, there is many children we could bless with the opportunity to be brought up in a good home.

[pushka]

Originally posted by seamusz@Sep 8 2005, 11:31 AM

Likewise, to just give away some of our reproductive bits, the Lord has given to us, seems to me to not be responsible.  This isn't to say that the giver isn't giving in an appropriate spirit, but that he/she doesn't really have the right to give that which was given to them, to another...

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Do you hold this same view over donating organs from the deceased to others who need them?

Is this the view of the LDS church in general too? Just curious to know.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Fiannan@Sep 8 2005, 12:29 PM

Gives the parable of the seeds a whole new meaning I suppose.

←

Im glad you said it and not me.

Perhaps this could also be some new dimension to the plural marriage covenant? Not breaking the law of the land, but fulfilling the intent of D&C 132?

Hmm...

[Jason]

Or better,

Maybe God's not a polygamist after all. Maybe he's just a fertility doctor!

[seamusz]

Originally posted by pushka+Sep 8 2005, 12:33 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-seamusz@Sep 8 2005, 11:31 AM

Likewise, to just give away some of our reproductive bits, the Lord has given to us, seems to me to not be responsible.  This isn't to say that the giver isn't giving in an appropriate spirit, but that he/she doesn't really have the right to give that which was given to them, to another...

←

Do you hold this same view over donating organs from the deceased to others who need them?

Is this the view of the LDS church in general too? Just curious to know.

←

I don't. I think the difference is creating life, vs sustaining life... although I know some who are uneasy with the idea of being a donor. I am a donor.

The LDS view on the sperm and egg donation, or the organ donor thing?

[pushka]

I was referring to the Organ Donation in this instance, as I think one or two people tried to outline the Lds views on sperm/egg donation.

[daizymae]

Here is an article that I found on www.lds.org regarding organ donation:

“Questions and Answers,” Tambuli, May 1988, 13

I am thinking of donating some organs for transplantation. Am I wrong in wanting to do so?

Cecil O. Samuelson, Jr., Dean, regional representative and physician.

Organ transplantation is one of the true medical wonders of our age. Medical science has progressed to the point that the replacement of an injured or diseased body part, such as a kidney, cornea of the eye, heart, liver, bone, bone marrow, skin, or pancreas is becoming fairly common. Most donors plan before they die to give certain organs or tissues. However, some organs—such as kidneys—can be donated to someone in need while the donor is still living.

As is the case with many other scientific developments, there are many questions about organ transplantation that have serious economic, ethical, moral, and religious implications. And, as with many other important aspects of life, we have been counseled to study the information, make decisions, and pray for wisdom about our choices. (See D&C 9:7–9; D&C 58:26–28.)

The Church has taken no official position on organ transplants. It seems obvious, however, that organ transplantation does not affect one’s resurrection, since the organ would soon have returned to the basic elements of the earth following death anyway. Whatever happens to an organ following death, we are promised that “every limb and joint shall be restored to its body, yea, even a hair of the head shall not be lost.” (Alma 40:23.)

In the meantime, wonderful blessings have come to thousands of people and to their families through organ donation and replacement. Several doctors who work with transplantation have shared with me inspirational stories and letters from those who have received this special service. Families grieving from the death of a loved one have been greatly comforted by the knowledge that other lives have been saved or measurably improved after receiving a vital organ transplant. Other families have been spared serious illness or death because a living family member was able to donate an organ to a loved one.

As I work with the givers and receivers and see the selfless love that is evident in this gift of life and health, I am often reminded of what Peter and John did when they met the lame beggar as they went into the temple. The lame man asked only for alms but instead was healed. To the one in need, Peter said, “Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee.” (Acts 3:6.)

Those who are considering donating a kidney to a loved one should be aware that only those who meet strict requirements will be considered as donors. Because of careful screening, and because of advances in transplantation techniques, donors do not face the risk they did just a few years ago. A healthy person can give a kidney, for example, and continue to live a normal life, sustained by the remaining kidney.

While the matter of vital organ transplantation remains a highly personal one, it deserves prayerful consideration.

Gospel topic: health

[pushka]

Thanks for that reassuring article..