Why Jews And Mormons Are Smarter.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Please@Sep 8 2005, 02:23 PM

You leaned tooooo much to your own understanding and didn't listen to the Spirit or you wouldn't be tossed with every wind of doctrine.

"The Glory of God is Intelligence!"

The "Spirit" is a bad judge of right and wrong. Find two mormons and the Spirit will have given three answers.

What's wrong with being tossed with every wind of doctrine? At least Im moving instead of watching my hull rot out beneath me.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason+Sep 8 2005, 02:28 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Sep 8 2005, 02:23 PM

You leaned tooooo much to your own understanding and didn't listen to the Spirit or you wouldn't be tossed with every wind of doctrine.

"The Glory of God is Intelligence!"

The "Spirit" is a bad judge of right and wrong. Find two mormons and the Spirit will have given three answers.

What's wrong with being tossed with every wind of doctrine? At least Im moving instead of watching my hull rot out beneath me.

←

Moving and growing are two different things. You can grow while standing in Holy places unmoved by the calamities of the earth.

Yet moving does not necessarily depict growth or even progress. One is also moving when going backwards.

Two saints who have had the Spiritual confirmation will agree on howit works and the works that are true.

Just because someone claims to be a Mormon doesn't mean they have the Spirit. There are pleanty of X mormons to prove it.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Fiannan@Sep 8 2005, 12:35 PM

Ray, do you have any studies to indicate intelligence and aptitudes are dictated by environment almost entirely?

←

I didn’t say nor do I think that intelligence is derived from "environment", unless by “environment” you’re referring to having the Holy Ghost with us. I believe we can only grow in intelligence as we learn from God, and my belief is supported by my own observations and the enlightenment I pray that I will continue to receive.

And btw, I am a "convert", and the only one from the family that raised me.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Please+Sep 8 2005, 02:31 PM-->

Originally posted by Jason@Sep 8 2005, 02:28 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Sep 8 2005, 02:23 PM

You leaned tooooo much to your own understanding and didn't listen to the Spirit or you wouldn't be tossed with every wind of doctrine.

"The Glory of God is Intelligence!"

The "Spirit" is a bad judge of right and wrong. Find two mormons and the Spirit will have given three answers.

What's wrong with being tossed with every wind of doctrine? At least Im moving instead of watching my hull rot out beneath me.

←

Moving and growing are two different things. You can grow while standing in Holy places unmoved by the calamities of the earth.

Yet moving does not necessarily depict growth or even progress. One is also moving when going backwards.

Two saints who have had the Spiritual confirmation will agree on howit works and the works that are true.

Just because someone claims to be a Mormon doesn't mean they have the Spirit. There are pleanty of X mormons to prove it.

←

Wherever I stand is a holy place to God, for God created all things and all places.

Using the analogy of a ship (apparently you missed that) there is no such thing as "backwards". Wherever I go, Im exploring, re-discovering, or learning. Throwing out your anchor when you find a nice harbor with pretty girls ashore is hardly an admirable trait for a sailor. I'll stop and admire, take in the beauty, have a few pints of ale and enjoy the company of a pretty gal, then move on to the next island, the new world and take it in.

As for Mormon beliefs, this board alone should prove to anyone that no two Mormons agree exactly on all so-called Mormon doctrines. Or why some doctrines were discarded, or why some rituals have been changed, or why some offices altered or deleted.

And I still have God's spirit with me. So poo on you.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason@Sep 8 2005, 05:02 PM

Wherever I stand is a holy place to God, for God created all things and all places.

Using the analogy of a ship (apparently you missed that) there is no such thing as "backwards".  Wherever I go, Im exploring, re-discovering, or learning.  Throwing out your anchor when you find a nice harbor with pretty girls ashore is hardly an admirable trait for a sailor.  I'll stop and admire, take in the beauty, have a few pints of ale and enjoy the company of a pretty gal, then move on to the next island, the new world and take it in. 

As for Mormon beliefs, this board alone should prove to anyone that no two Mormons agree exactly on all so-called Mormon doctrines.  Or why some doctrines were discarded, or why some rituals have been changed, or why some offices altered or deleted. 

And I still have God's spirit with me.  So poo on you.

←

It is clear all you see is man things... not Godly things. I told of a dream a guy had where a man in a white robe stood before him. In his natural eyes he only saw someone who looked like his co-worker. When he looked again, with his spiritual eyes, his eyes were opened and he saw Christ standing before him.

We miss a lot of things when we refuse to see them through anything but our natural eyes.

Those who deny the dvinity of the Church's guidance from God, can't see. Those who do see know and submit willingly with their whole heart, mind and soul.

Changes to ceremonies is a good indication that the people, not the leaders, are having parts taken away... as prophesied if they didn't live up to every covenant they took.

Wicked people is why we are having such crazy disasters all over the earth. There will be more before it is all over. Many many more.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Please+Sep 8 2005, 05:32 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Sep 8 2005, 05:02 PM

Wherever I stand is a holy place to God, for God created all things and all places.

Using the analogy of a ship (apparently you missed that) there is no such thing as "backwards".  Wherever I go, Im exploring, re-discovering, or learning.  Throwing out your anchor when you find a nice harbor with pretty girls ashore is hardly an admirable trait for a sailor.  I'll stop and admire, take in the beauty, have a few pints of ale and enjoy the company of a pretty gal, then move on to the next island, the new world and take it in. 

As for Mormon beliefs, this board alone should prove to anyone that no two Mormons agree exactly on all so-called Mormon doctrines.  Or why some doctrines were discarded, or why some rituals have been changed, or why some offices altered or deleted. 

And I still have God's spirit with me.  So poo on you.

←

It is clear all you see is man things... not Godly things. I told of a dream a guy had where a man in a white robe stood before him. In his natural eyes he only saw someone who looked like his co-worker. When he looked again, with his spiritual eyes, his eyes were opened and he saw Christ standing before him.

We miss a lot of things when we refuse to see them through anything but our natural eyes.

Those who deny the dvinity of the Church's guidance from God, can't see. Those who do see know and submit willingly with their whole heart, mind and soul.

Changes to ceremonies is a good indication that the people, not the leaders, are having parts taken away... as prophesied if they didn't live up to every covenant they took.

Wicked people is why we are having such crazy disasters all over the earth. There will be more before it is all over. Many many more.

←

It's obvious you're neither reading my posts, nor trying to understand them. Im casting pearls before swine.

So Im not discussing this with you any further.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason+Sep 8 2005, 06:29 PM-->

Originally posted by Please@Sep 8 2005, 05:32 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Sep 8 2005, 05:02 PM

Wherever I stand is a holy place to God, for God created all things and all places.

Using the analogy of a ship (apparently you missed that) there is no such thing as "backwards".  Wherever I go, Im exploring, re-discovering, or learning.  Throwing out your anchor when you find a nice harbor with pretty girls ashore is hardly an admirable trait for a sailor.  I'll stop and admire, take in the beauty, have a few pints of ale and enjoy the company of a pretty gal, then move on to the next island, the new world and take it in. 

As for Mormon beliefs, this board alone should prove to anyone that no two Mormons agree exactly on all so-called Mormon doctrines.  Or why some doctrines were discarded, or why some rituals have been changed, or why some offices altered or deleted. 

And I still have God's spirit with me.  So poo on you.

←

It is clear all you see is man things... not Godly things. I told of a dream a guy had where a man in a white robe stood before him. In his natural eyes he only saw someone who looked like his co-worker. When he looked again, with his spiritual eyes, his eyes were opened and he saw Christ standing before him.

We miss a lot of things when we refuse to see them through anything but our natural eyes.

Those who deny the dvinity of the Church's guidance from God, can't see. Those who do see know and submit willingly with their whole heart, mind and soul.

Changes to ceremonies is a good indication that the people, not the leaders, are having parts taken away... as prophesied if they didn't live up to every covenant they took.

Wicked people is why we are having such crazy disasters all over the earth. There will be more before it is all over. Many many more.

←

It's obvious you're neither reading my posts, nor trying to understand them. Im casting pearls before swine.

So Im not discussing this with you any further.

←

Oh didn't I address you 'poo' comment? Or was it the 'there is no backwards' comment.

Both are rediculous.

[Jason]

Please,

Are you actually "Peace" on some new meds?

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason@Sep 8 2005, 08:57 PM

Please,

Are you actually "Peace" on some new meds?

←

I am Peace, but I don't take meds...never have. I thought you would have noticed the posts where several have addressed me as Peace.

:thinking.idea:

They just had me registered as Please, so that is how I came on.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Jason+Sep 8 2005, 09:28 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Snow@Sep 7 2005, 11:01 PM

Oh - you weren't really making a comment on intelligence, you're just an anti-semite looking for an opportunity to bash Jews. Why am I not surprized?

You are surprised, and your anti-semite comment is uncalled for. Im not anti-Jewish. I demand a retraction, Snow.

Here's a point of legal fact for you Jason, Israel is a homeland granted to the Jews in 1948 by the United Natioins. You can whine about it but the fact remains that Israel is a homeland to the Jews.

Im very aware of this, Snow. I have a BA in Political Science friend, I took classes dealing with this very issue.

The UN should never have taken it upon itself to declare someone else's land the property of a non-occupant.

That is just as immoral as the Supreme Court declaring that for the sake of economic developement, your house can be taken from you so that some a@@-hole can put in a shopping mall.

To be fair to you Jason, you're over your head here.

Hardly. The only reason the UN put the jews in Palestine is because neither the US, the UK, the newly created NATO alliance states, nor Russia wanted them. They talked about placing them in Africa, but that didn't seem to fit. So they make up this BS about a "homeland" and send them to live with those "backward" Palestinians.

Then when the Palestinians started to get upset at the Jewish immigration, even to the point of violence, we get the guilts and toss a hefty amount of money their way so that they will stay put, and not move into the USA. (Even to the donation of Nuclear technology. Aren't we benevelent!)

That's the real deal Snow. To imply otherwise means you've been blindsided by either the standard party-line of having an ally in the Middle East (which we could and do have without Isreal), or your possessed by some kind of Christian Fundamentalism hoping that with the Jews in Jerusalem, maybe Jesus won't be a no-show after all.

Which is it?

←

I hope it’s not too late to ask for your tuition money back. If you thought you were getting an education on the Palestinian - Israeli issue, you got jobbed.

Jews have always had a presence in Palestine, from ancient to modern times, particularly in the holy cities of Jerusalem, Hebron and Safad. The last time Palestine was an independent nation is was a Jewish state. Palestine used to be called Judea before the Romans renamed it in order to de-judaize it. With respect to the first Aliyah in 1882 we know that there has been a plurality or majority in Jerusalem for centuries. The Jews of the first Aliyah did not take the land by fear or conquest. They bought it outright from absentee landowners. The immigrants were mostly Sephardic Jews who had been forced to leave the Arab countries they lived in, or left on their own or experienced a combination of fear and opportunity. About 10,000 European Jews also immigrated.

At the end of WWI 4/5th of larger Palestine was designated as Trans Jordan. The inhabitants of Trans Jordan were largely Palestinian albeit under Hashemite rule at the time.

In 1947, the small, remaining part of Palestine was partitioned by the United Nations. At that time, the population of the partition given to the Jews was a Jewish majority. Though estimates vary, the United Nations estimate was 537,000 Jews and 397,000 non-Jews comprised of Christians, Arabs, Bedowins etc. If a referendum of self-determination had been held in the land to be partitioned to the Jews, the vote would have been to become a Jewish state.

A larger portion of Palestine was given to the Jews even though, in total, there were more Palestinians but the Jewish partition contained the Negev desert which was considered inarable and unihabitable. Discounting the Negev, the Palestinian partion was larger. In addition, much of the land partitioned to the Jews had been claimed out of desert and swamp made habitable by the sweat of the Jews. The land allocated to the Jews, by the world body of the United Nations did not include the holy cities of western Jerusalem, which had a Jewish majority and Hebron. Jerusalem was to be internationalized but cut off from the Jewish areas. Hebron was to be part of the Arab sector with no Jewish presence despite the fact that Jews had lived there for 1000s of years until the Palestinian massacres of Jewish woman, children and old men, first in 1929 and then again in 1936.

Israel accepted the U.N. partion. Had Palestinians accepted, there would have been a large contiguous Palestinian state alongside a Jewish State but the Palestinian reject all plans for self-determination because that would mean that lawful Jewish landowners could rule themselves. Palestinian leaders rejected a two-state solution in 1917, 1937. 1948 and 2000.

In May 1949 Israel declared independence and the next day the Arab countries of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon attacked it in a genocidal war of extermination. As has been the case with all Palestinian attacks, the Arab countries attacked innocent civilian targets in Tel Aviv, TEberias, Ashdot Yaacov, Afikim and Ein Geg. In this conflict Arabs always attack soft civilian targets such as cities, towns, kibbutzim and moshavim, trying to kill as many children, women and elderly as possible, all in violation of international law. Israeli responses are aimed at legal targets such as soldiers and military equipment. Of course there are Palestinian civilian casualties since Palestinian military forces and terrorists protect themselves by surrounding themselves with civilian targets which obviously they do not value, while Israeli military bases are located as far away from civilians as possible.

You can claim that you are not anti-semtic, and maybe your college professors were either uneducated or idealogues but you can’t make up crap like the “Jews moved back in 60 years ago and act like they've been there all along” and think that I won’t spot it.

I am no particular fan of Israel, nor of the Palestinians, both are blameworthy. I just know ideological bull when I see it. What I do like about Israel is that it is the freest county in all Arab lands. Palestinians under Jewish control have far more rights and freedoms than Jews under Arab rule.

[Snow]

Originally posted by pushka@Sep 8 2005, 07:34 AM

Snow, I am not anti-semitic, and I doubt that Jason is too...I have for years argued the case of the Jews in Israel, except that recently I too have looked deeper into the issues...I'm going to reprint an article from the Internet, which looks at the Israeli/Palestinian issues from the veiwpoint of an Orthodox Jew, hope this helps!

←

Hi pushka,

My position on Israel has nothing to do with religion. Religion is dogma and one man's dogma shouldn't be forced on another. My opinion is based on international law and the right of a people to lawfully inhabit land and be free from violence and free to govern themselves.

This whole thing could have been solved a number of times had the Arabs accepted the right to Jewish self-determination on land that they legally own. Jews have been willing to accord Palestinians that right but never the Palestinians to the Jews.

[pushka]

Okay Snow...I'm willing to accept your knowledge at this point, as you do know more than I do about the situation...

[Jason]

Originally posted by Please+Sep 8 2005, 10:33 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Sep 8 2005, 08:57 PM

Please,

Are you actually "Peace" on some new meds?

←

I am Peace, but I don't take meds...never have. I thought you would have noticed the posts where several have addressed me as Peace.

:thinking.idea:

They just had me registered as Please, so that is how I came on.

←

Actually, I don't read threads in which I don't actively participate. So no, I didn't notice what other's said. But looks like Im a darn good guesser.

[Snow]

Originally posted by pushka@Sep 8 2005, 09:05 PM

Okay Snow...I'm willing to accept your knowledge at this point, as you do know more than I do about the situation...

←

Interestingly, what got me interested in the topic was a lecture by a BYU scholar (Dr. Bonner Ritchie) who the Church called to be a liason to the Palestinians. I think it is admirable that the Church makes an honest effort at impartiality.

I also went to an interesting lecture recently - get this - by a black Mormon speaking at a Jewish Temple as a former American diplomat to Israel.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason+Sep 9 2005, 12:16 AM-->

Originally posted by Please@Sep 8 2005, 10:33 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Sep 8 2005, 08:57 PM

Please,

Are you actually "Peace" on some new meds?

←

I am Peace, but I don't take meds...never have. I thought you would have noticed the posts where several have addressed me as Peace.

:thinking.idea:

They just had me registered as Please, so that is how I came on.

←

Actually, I don't read threads in which I don't actively participate. So no, I didn't notice what other's said. But looks like Im a darn good guesser.

←

It was known before when I came to the board last year that Please and Peace were the same person. Were you here back then?

[Jason]

Originally posted by Snow+Sep 8 2005, 10:47 PM-->

Originally posted by Jason@Sep 8 2005, 09:28 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-Snow@Sep 7 2005, 11:01 PM

Oh - you weren't really making a comment on intelligence, you're just an anti-semite looking for an opportunity to bash Jews. Why am I not surprized?

You are surprised, and your anti-semite comment is uncalled for. Im not anti-Jewish. I demand a retraction, Snow.

Here's a point of legal fact for you Jason, Israel is a homeland granted to the Jews in 1948 by the United Natioins. You can whine about it but the fact remains that Israel is a homeland to the Jews.

Im very aware of this, Snow. I have a BA in Political Science friend, I took classes dealing with this very issue.

The UN should never have taken it upon itself to declare someone else's land the property of a non-occupant.

That is just as immoral as the Supreme Court declaring that for the sake of economic developement, your house can be taken from you so that some a@@-hole can put in a shopping mall.

To be fair to you Jason, you're over your head here.

Hardly. The only reason the UN put the jews in Palestine is because neither the US, the UK, the newly created NATO alliance states, nor Russia wanted them. They talked about placing them in Africa, but that didn't seem to fit. So they make up this BS about a "homeland" and send them to live with those "backward" Palestinians.

Then when the Palestinians started to get upset at the Jewish immigration, even to the point of violence, we get the guilts and toss a hefty amount of money their way so that they will stay put, and not move into the USA. (Even to the donation of Nuclear technology. Aren't we benevelent!)

That's the real deal Snow. To imply otherwise means you've been blindsided by either the standard party-line of having an ally in the Middle East (which we could and do have without Isreal), or your possessed by some kind of Christian Fundamentalism hoping that with the Jews in Jerusalem, maybe Jesus won't be a no-show after all.

Which is it?

←

I hope it’s not too late to ask for your tuition money back. If you thought you were getting an education on the Palestinian - Israeli issue, you got jobbed.

Jews have always had a presence in Palestine, from ancient to modern times, particularly in the holy cities of Jerusalem, Hebron and Safad. The last time Palestine was an independent nation is was a Jewish state. Palestine used to be called Judea before the Romans renamed it in order to de-judaize it. With respect to the first Aliyah in 1882 we know that there has been a plurality or majority in Jerusalem for centuries. The Jews of the first Aliyah did not take the land by fear or conquest. They bought it outright from absentee landowners. The immigrants were mostly Sephardic Jews who had been forced to leave the Arab countries they lived in, or left on their own or experienced a combination of fear and opportunity. About 10,000 European Jews also immigrated.

At the end of WWI 4/5th of larger Palestine was designated as Trans Jordan. The inhabitants of Trans Jordan were largely Palestinian albeit under Hashemite rule at the time.

In 1947, the small, remaining part of Palestine was partitioned by the United Nations. At that time, the population of the partition given to the Jews was a Jewish majority. Though estimates vary, the United Nations estimate was 537,000 Jews and 397,000 non-Jews comprised of Christians, Arabs, Bedowins etc. If a referendum of self-determination had been held in the land to be partitioned to the Jews, the vote would have been to become a Jewish state.

A larger portion of Palestine was given to the Jews even though, in total, there were more Palestinians but the Jewish partition contained the Negev desert which was considered inarable and unihabitable. Discounting the Negev, the Palestinian partion was larger. In addition, much of the land partitioned to the Jews had been claimed out of desert and swamp made habitable by the sweat of the Jews. The land allocated to the Jews, by the world body of the United Nations did not include the holy cities of western Jerusalem, which had a Jewish majority and Hebron. Jerusalem was to be internationalized but cut off from the Jewish areas. Hebron was to be part of the Arab sector with no Jewish presence despite the fact that Jews had lived there for 1000s of years until the Palestinian massacres of Jewish woman, children and old men, first in 1929 and then again in 1936.

Israel accepted the U.N. partion. Had Palestinians accepted, there would have been a large contiguous Palestinian state alongside a Jewish State but the Palestinian reject all plans for self-determination because that would mean that lawful Jewish landowners could rule themselves. Palestinian leaders rejected a two-state solution in 1917, 1937. 1948 and 2000.

In May 1949 Israel declared independence and the next day the Arab countries of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon attacked it in a genocidal war of extermination. As has been the case with all Palestinian attacks, the Arab countries attacked innocent civilian targets in Tel Aviv, TEberias, Ashdot Yaacov, Afikim and Ein Geg. In this conflict Arabs always attack soft civilian targets such as cities, towns, kibbutzim and moshavim, trying to kill as many children, women and elderly as possible, all in violation of international law. Israeli responses are aimed at legal targets such as soldiers and military equipment. Of course there are Palestinian civilian casualties since Palestinian military forces and terrorists protect themselves by surrounding themselves with civilian targets which obviously they do not value, while Israeli military bases are located as far away from civilians as possible.

You can claim that you are not anti-semtic, and maybe your college professors were either uneducated or idealogues but you can’t make up crap like the “Jews moved back in 60 years ago and act like they've been there all along” and think that I won’t spot it.

I am no particular fan of Israel, nor of the Palestinians, both are blameworthy. I just know ideological bull when I see it. What I do like about Israel is that it is the freest county in all Arab lands. Palestinians under Jewish control have far more rights and freedoms than Jews under Arab rule.

←

Thanks for the refresher Snow. But you've still omitted the forced emigration of jews from Europe to the newly created Palestinian state. Or the Zionist wacko-s who, bitter and hardened in their escapades against Nazism, turned their deadly skills on the Palestinians.

Purchasing the land from Palestinians was done in an underhanded manner. Over roughtly six decades previous to 1947-48, Jews purchased large tracts of land with the secret intention of creating a new nation-state with their acquired real-estate. These Jewish nationalists knew that with the Arab-Palestinians divided amonst themselves, and the greater Arab world not comptent to make any real goals for the area, the Jews jumped in to this land-vacuum and took advantage of the situation. The Nazi holocaust only helped these Jewish nationalists further their cause by appealing to the sympathies of the Allies and the pressure they exerted over the UN, thus coaxing the West into creating a new nation-state out of the former Trans-Jordan area west of the Dead Sea.

Just previous to the new State's creation, the former Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, longed to have the Nazi's enter his city and rid him of the menace of the ultra zealot Zionist Jewish presence. Unlike the greater Arab community, al-Husayni could see what was going on right in his own home city. He feared that the Jews would take over much or all of Palestine, and his fears were not unfounded.

Since the advent of the Nation-state of Israel, the area has not known peace. Who's to blame? Clearly it's the Jews fault. They played the sneaky-uncle, and they're being punished for it.

Obviously Im not calling for the expulsion of the Jews. I know that there have always been Jews in Jerusalem and surrounding areas. The only real solution is the same one that the UN came up with quite a while ago. A two state solution is now the only way. I applaud the current evacuations of Gaza settlements by Sharon, and think that it's the first of many steps necessary to achieve peace. I can only hope that the efforts underway currently will lead to a Palestinian Nation-state in the very near future.

I also hope that the US will take back her "loaned" Nuclear weaponry, and force Israel to comply with the nuclear non-profliferation treaty. http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/npt/

I also hope that the US will cease pumping Billions of dollars in "aid" a year to that state (not to mention the Billions in Loan Guarantees), and make them stand on their own two feet. They jumped into the sh!t, they should have to live with it.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...to_Israel1.html

I also applaud the non-zionist Jews of the world who think that the whole thing is one giant mess that never should have happened in the first place. Like these Jews, I regret that the west made such a poor decision to create Israel in the first place. But, being a realist, we must work with what we have, not what we wish would have been.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Please+Sep 9 2005, 12:41 AM-->

Originally posted by Jason@Sep 9 2005, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by Please@Sep 8 2005, 10:33 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Sep 8 2005, 08:57 PM

Please,

Are you actually "Peace" on some new meds?

←

I am Peace, but I don't take meds...never have. I thought you would have noticed the posts where several have addressed me as Peace.

:thinking.idea:

They just had me registered as Please, so that is how I came on.

←

Actually, I don't read threads in which I don't actively participate. So no, I didn't notice what other's said. But looks like Im a darn good guesser.

←

It was known before when I came to the board last year that Please and Peace were the same person. Were you here back then?

←

I remember now. You changed from your real name (which I will keep quiet) when you thought people were out to get you. Then you were removed from being a Moderator because you're not very nice.

Anyhow, Im still not interested in talking to a brick wall, so our conversations shall cease.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason+Sep 9 2005, 12:56 AM-->

Originally posted by Please@Sep 9 2005, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by Jason@Sep 9 2005, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by Please@Sep 8 2005, 10:33 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Sep 8 2005, 08:57 PM

Please,

Are you actually "Peace" on some new meds?

←

I am Peace, but I don't take meds...never have. I thought you would have noticed the posts where several have addressed me as Peace.

:thinking.idea:

They just had me registered as Please, so that is how I came on.

←

Actually, I don't read threads in which I don't actively participate. So no, I didn't notice what other's said. But looks like Im a darn good guesser.

←

It was known before when I came to the board last year that Please and Peace were the same person. Were you here back then?

←

I remember now. You changed from your real name (which I will keep quiet) when you thought people were out to get you. Then you were removed from being a Moderator because you're not very nice.

Anyhow, Im still not interested in talking to a brick wall, so our conversations shall cease.

←

Well I guess that was nice calling me a brick wall. People like you think you are so much better, then you do the exact thing you claim others who you deem inferior, are doing. LOL . B) I hope your post made you feel better about yourself.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Jason@Sep 8 2005, 10:53 PM

Thanks for the refresher Snow.  But you've still omitted the forced emigration of jews from Europe to the newly created Palestinian state.  Or the Zionist wacko-s who, bitter and hardened in their escapades against Nazism, turned their deadly skills on the Palestinians. 

Purchasing the land from Palestinians was done in an underhanded manner.  Over roughtly six decades previous to 1947-48, Jews purchased large tracts of land with the secret intention of creating a new nation-state with their acquired real-estate.  These Jewish nationalists knew that with the Arab-Palestinians divided amonst themselves, and the greater Arab world not comptent to make any real goals for the area, the Jews jumped in to this land-vacuum and took advantage of the situation.  The Nazi holocaust only helped these Jewish nationalists further their cause by appealing to the sympathies of the Allies and the pressure they exerted over the UN, thus coaxing the West into creating a new nation-state out of the former Trans-Jordan area west of the Dead Sea. 

Just previous to the new State's creation, the former Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, longed to have the Nazi's enter his city and rid him of the menace of the ultra zealot Zionist  Jewish presence.  Unlike the greater Arab community, al-Husayni could see what was going on right in his own home city.  He feared that the Jews would take over much or all of Palestine, and his fears were not unfounded. 

Since the advent of the Nation-state of Israel, the area has not known peace.  Who's to blame?  Clearly it's the Jews fault.  They played the sneaky-uncle, and they're being punished for it. 

Obviously Im not calling for the expulsion of the Jews.  I know that there have always been Jews in Jerusalem and surrounding areas.  The only real solution is the same one that the UN came up with quite a while ago.  A two state solution is now the only way.  I applaud the current evacuations of Gaza settlements by Sharon, and think that it's the first of many steps necessary to achieve peace.  I can only hope that the efforts underway currently will lead to a Palestinian Nation-state in the very near future. 

I also hope that the US will take back her "loaned" Nuclear weaponry, and force Israel to comply with the nuclear non-profliferation treaty.  http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/npt/

I also hope that the US will cease pumping Billions of dollars in "aid" a year to that state (not to mention the Billions in Loan Guarantees), and make them stand on their own two feet.  They jumped into the sh!t, they should have to live with it. 

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...to_Israel1.html

I also applaud the non-zionist Jews of the world who think that the whole thing is one giant mess that never should have happened in the first place.  Like these Jews, I regret that the west made such a poor decision to create Israel in the first place.  But, being a realist, we must work with what we have, not what we wish would have been.

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Jason, You’re jumping all over the place, sometime with wrong fact and sometimes with irrelevant information.

We all know that the Germany, before murdering millions of Jews tried for force them to emigrate from Germany and some wound up in Germany. We also know that Haj Amin el-Husseini the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was directly involved in the destruction of European Jewry as a collaborator and advisor of the Nazis Eichman and Himmler. Prior to the Mufti arrival in Germany, the policy had been to force Jews to emigrate. The scheme of wholesale extermination began only after the Mufti arrived in Germany and collaborated with the Nazis.

How does that help your case Jason?

Far from being the insightful and prudent politician you paint him as, Husseini was a extremist of the worst sort. He was sentenced to 10 years in British imprisonment for instigating Jewish pogroms. In 1937 he conducted and provoked more violent anti-Jewish riots and as a menace to the British Mandatory regime had to flee to Lebanon and then to Baghdad where he orchestrated pogroms against Babylonian Jews 400 of whom were killed while countless others were raped and hurt. When the coup in Baghdad collapsed he escaped to Nazi Germany where Hitler set up an office for him.

So, again, how does Nazi forced emigration and Nazi collaboration help your case Jason?

It takes a lot of gall to claim that the murder of millions of innocent Jews helped their cause. The reality is that the Palestinian leadership with the acquiescence of most of the Palestinian Arabs actively supported and assisted the Holocaust and Nazi Germany and bear considerable moral, political and legal culpability for the murder of many Jews. It’s ironic that many pro-Palestinian groups have chosen the swastika as their symbol.

And - again, but not surprisingly, you are misstating the case about Jewish purchase of land from the late 1800s. (Remember a few posts ago you were representing that the Jews didn’t even get to Jerusalem until about 1945?). The land purchases of the first Aliyah and even the second were from absentee landowners living outside of Palestine, many of them wealthy. Palestinian Arabs were forbidden to sell to Jews, often under the threat of punishment or death. Jews were also instructed not to buy land from Palestinians. But if some land were bought by Jews from Palestinians - so what? Buying and selling land is legal. You are being dihonest or maybe just being uneducated in claiming that they had a secret intent of creating a nation-state. For Pete’s sake, The Balfour Declaration 30 years prior to 1947 declared that a national home for the Jews in Palestine should be created. Who was it a secret from? Who?

It is obvious by your lack of command of facts and context that either you don’t know what’s what or you are simply an ideologue with disregard for the truth.

BTW: Did you just read some sort of primer by M. Shahid Alam and Noam Chomsky?

[Jason]

Originally posted by Snow@Sep 9 2005, 10:33 PM

Jason, You’re jumping all over the place, sometime with wrong fact and sometimes with irrelevant information.

We all know that the Germany, before murdering millions of Jews tried for force them to emigrate from Germany and some wound up in Germany. We also know that Haj Amin el-Husseini the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was directly involved in the destruction of European Jewry as a collaborator and advisor of the Nazis Eichman and Himmler. Prior to the Mufti arrival in Germany, the policy had been to force Jews to emigrate. The scheme of wholesale extermination began only after the Mufti arrived in Germany and collaborated with the Nazis.

How does that help your case Jason?

Far from being the insightful and prudent politician you paint him as, Husseini was a extremist of the worst sort. He was sentenced to 10 years in British imprisonment for instigating Jewish pogroms. In 1937 he conducted and provoked more violent anti-Jewish riots and as a menace to the British Mandatory regime had to flee to Lebanon and then to Baghdad where he orchestrated pogroms against Babylonian Jews 400 of whom were killed while countless others were raped and hurt. When the coup in Baghdad collapsed he escaped to Nazi Germany where Hitler set up an office for him.

So, again, how does Nazi forced emigration and Nazi collaboration help your case Jason?

It takes a lot of gall to claim that the murder of millions of innocent Jews helped their cause. The reality is that the Palestinian leadership with the acquiescence of most of the Palestinian Arabs actively supported and assisted the Holocaust and Nazi Germany and bear considerable moral, political and legal culpability for the murder of many Jews. It’s ironic that many pro-Palestinian groups have chosen the swastika as their symbol.

And - again, but not surprisingly, you are misstating the case about Jewish purchase of land from the late 1800s. (Remember a few posts ago you were representing that the Jews didn’t even get to Jerusalem until about 1945?). The land purchases of the first Aliyah and even the second were from absentee landowners living outside of Palestine, many of them wealthy. Palestinian Arabs were forbidden to sell to Jews, often under the threat of punishment or death. Jews were also instructed not to buy land from Palestinians. But if some land were bought by Jews from Palestinians - so what? Buying and selling land is legal. You are being dihonest or maybe just  being uneducated in claiming that they had a secret intent of creating a nation-state. For Pete’s sake, The Balfour Declaration 30 years prior to 1947 declared that a national home for the Jews in Palestine should be created. Who was it a secret from? Who?

It is obvious by your lack of command of facts and context that either you don’t know what’s what or you are simply an ideologue with disregard for the truth.

BTW: Did you just read some sort of primer by M. Shahid Alam and Noam Chomsky?

←

Im not saying that the Mufti was a nice guy, Im saying that he was one of the few people who knew what was going on in Palestine.

The Balfour Declaration? Are you forgetting what decade we're talking about? You do realize that Al-Jazera wasn't around then, right? Nobody was publishing this declaration in Palestine. Nobody was grandstanding about how they were going to buy up land in front of the Palestinians.

They didn't do this because they knew that if they didn't get their foot in the door first, their plans would fail.

That's my complaint.

I don't know why you're even arguing with me on this (except the fact that you're clearly bored, hence the old blacks and the priesthood thread you just started) there's nothing we can do about it now.

[john doe]

Originally posted by Fiannan@Sep 7 2005, 12:12 PM

A college teacher I know recently got his class going on the matter of nature v. nurture.  He quoted a few sources to make the proposition that Jews and Mormons are smarter than the average persons in society because, in the case of Jews, they were denied the right to own property in much of Europe so they had to go into business or education. The ones with brains could provide for a wife and kids while the others couldn't -- so smartness was passed on to an increasing amount of the children.  In the case of Mormons the observation was presented that even the most gifted and talented Mormon women tend to have large families (traditionally) and maybe even reproduce at a higher rate than less intelligent women because of a variety of factors.  Gifted and talented non-LDS women tend to have fewer children than they would need to even replace themselves.

So what do you think?  I have read quotes from church leaders that seem to suggest the exact arguments that this teacher is except he was using a neo-Darwinistic approach rather than one coupled with spiritual insights.  However, if you took out the word "God" out of our church leader's comments they sound very Darwinistic.

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This thread has devolved from its original intentions, and since I haven't had time to respond, let me say now that your college teacher's theory is wrong on many points. I know of lots of not-so-bright people in the church, many of them well educated. And if your teacher friend buys into this theory, he could possibly be counted as one of them.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by john doe+Sep 10 2005, 08:14 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Fiannan@Sep 7 2005, 12:12 PM

A college teacher I know recently got his class going on the matter of nature v. nurture.  He quoted a few sources to make the proposition that Jews and Mormons are smarter than the average persons in society because, in the case of Jews, they were denied the right to own property in much of Europe so they had to go into business or education. The ones with brains could provide for a wife and kids while the others couldn't -- so smartness was passed on to an increasing amount of the children.  In the case of Mormons the observation was presented that even the most gifted and talented Mormon women tend to have large families (traditionally) and maybe even reproduce at a higher rate than less intelligent women because of a variety of factors.  Gifted and talented non-LDS women tend to have fewer children than they would need to even replace themselves.

So what do you think?  I have read quotes from church leaders that seem to suggest the exact arguments that this teacher is except he was using a neo-Darwinistic approach rather than one coupled with spiritual insights.  However, if you took out the word "God" out of our church leader's comments they sound very Darwinistic.

←

This thread has devolved from its original intentions, and since I haven't had time to respond, let me say now that your college teacher's theory is wrong on many points. I know of lots of not-so-bright people in the church, many of them well educated. And if your teacher friend buys into this theory, he could possibly be counted as one of them.

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Well I totally agree with you.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Jason@Sep 9 2005, 08:48 PM

That's my complaint. 

I don't know why you're even arguing with me on this (except the fact that you're clearly bored, hence the old blacks and the priesthood thread you just started) there's nothing we can do about it now.

←

You know how I am. So much of this stuff is fairly dry material and so you (I) need an argument to get the brain juice stirring so that I can pull open the books and study up a bit. This is just a topic I am currently studying so I am trying to stay motivated.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Snow+Sep 10 2005, 01:48 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Sep 9 2005, 08:48 PM

That's my complaint. 

I don't know why you're even arguing with me on this (except the fact that you're clearly bored, hence the old blacks and the priesthood thread you just started) there's nothing we can do about it now.

←

You know how I am. So much of this stuff is fairly dry material and so you (I) need an argument to get the brain juice stirring so that I can pull open the books and study up a bit. This is just a topic I am currently studying so I am trying to stay motivated.

←

Ok. As long as I know why we're rehashing some of these things, i'll gladly participate. Shall I break out my old files again?

[Fiannan]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...1/ixportal.html

When I have time I intend on addressing human reproduction in more detail in another thread as it seems to mention anything about Jewish people brings out more of an attack swarm than I saw in South America when I went pirahna fishing with chunks of fresh chicken.