Fiannan

Why Jews And Mormons Are Smarter.

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A college teacher I know recently got his class going on the matter of nature v. nurture. He quoted a few sources to make the proposition that Jews and Mormons are smarter than the average persons in society because, in the case of Jews, they were denied the right to own property in much of Europe so they had to go into business or education. The ones with brains could provide for a wife and kids while the others couldn't -- so smartness was passed on to an increasing amount of the children. In the case of Mormons the observation was presented that even the most gifted and talented Mormon women tend to have large families (traditionally) and maybe even reproduce at a higher rate than less intelligent women because of a variety of factors. Gifted and talented non-LDS women tend to have fewer children than they would need to even replace themselves.

So what do you think? I have read quotes from church leaders that seem to suggest the exact arguments that this teacher is except he was using a neo-Darwinistic approach rather than one coupled with spiritual insights. However, if you took out the word "God" out of our church leader's comments they sound very Darwinistic.

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Let's look at it this way. Stake presidents generally have larger families than average LDS folk(or so I have heard and read). Men marry women with about the same IQ as they have (educational levels may vary as a man might be a doctor but his wife -- whom he met while in med school while she was an undergrad -- quit school to have children. Yet her IQ is the same as her more educated husband.

Now stake presidents tend to be professional men or businessmen. Like rabbis in Judaism, they tend to produce large families. This is one reason LDS IQ will remain the same while IQ in the secular world will decline.

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Originally posted by Fiannan@Sep 7 2005, 02:19 PM

Let's look at it this way.  Stake presidents generally have larger families than average LDS folk(or so I have heard and read).  Men marry women with about the same IQ as they have (educational levels may vary as a man might be a doctor but his wife -- whom he met while in med school while she was an undergrad -- quit school to have children).  Yet her IQ is the same as her more educated husband.

Now stake presidents tend to be professional men or businessmen.  Like rabbis in Judaism, they tend to produce large families.  This is one reason LDS IQ will remain the same or grow while IQ in the secular world will decline.

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FYI, intelligence isn’t transmitted through genetics, although intelligent parents will usually teach their children how important it is to learn.

Or in the immortal words of Forrest Gump: Stupid is as stupid does, and that’s all I have to say about that.

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Originally posted by Ray@Sep 7 2005, 03:15 PM

FYI, intelligence isn’t transmitted through genetics, although intelligent parents will usually teach their children how important it is to learn.

Or in the immortal words of Forrest Gump: Stupid is as stupid does, and that’s all I have to say about that.

I don't know, my dad had a photographic memory, so do I, and so do some of my kids. It makes learning stuff really easy.

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I read a study once that found that the more education a woman has, the more likely she is to breastfeed. In addition, a child who is breastfeed on average has 3 more IQ points than a child who is bottle-feed. I don't think a baby is necessarily getting more brain power by nursing, but I do think that things the parents value most are past down to their children. If a mother is more educated, then it's more likely she has read the overwhelming benefits of breast milk versus formula, and is also more likely to pass on the importance of learning.

Another note on children valuing what parents value. My son is 10 months and his cousin is 9. This last weekend they were playing together and I dumped out a bucket full of toys. My son went right for a book and started fanning it, while his cousin picked up the first ball he could reach. My husband and I have been reading to our son since before he was born, and read to him each day and night. Books are by far his favorite toy, and he will head straight for any book or magazine left out. While my brother has been working with his son to get him to throw a baseball (with his left hand no less.) It’s pretty easy to see what the parents, even in small children.

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Heh, I’ll blame myself for not being more specific.

It should be obvious that some intelligence is transmitted through genetics, in the sense that genes contain information that define the nature of a being, but I was originally referring to intelligence in the sense that we use that word in the Church.

Or in other words, before any of us were born on Earth we were defined as an intelligence to a greater or lesser degree, and we bring that “degree” with us no matter who we have as parents. From then on we can either grow or diminish in intelligence as we make our choices.

Or in other words, parents with “average” or less than average intelligence can give birth to a “highly” intelligent child, and parents who are “highly” intelligent can give birth to a child with “average” or less than average intelligence, because “intelligence” isn’t something a person acquires from their parents…. or at least not through genetics.

Another point I was trying to make is that regardless of how much intelligence a person is “born with”, an intelligent person can degenerate to an idiot by the things he does that are not intelligent things to do, showing what I think is conclusively that intelligence is not so much a “component” as it is an “indication” of how much light and truth a person has or is willing to receive.

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Originally posted by Fiannan@Sep 7 2005, 01:12 PM

A college teacher I know recently got his class going on the matter of nature v. nurture.  He quoted a few sources to make the proposition that Jews and Mormons are smarter than the average persons in society because, in the case of Jews, they were denied the right to own property in much of Europe so they had to go into business or education. The ones with brains could provide for a wife and kids while the others couldn't -- so smartness was passed on to an increasing amount of the children. 

Apparently they're not smart enough to stop fighting in the middle east. So what kind of "intelligence" does that leave them with? A knack for numbers?

In the case of Mormons the observation was presented that even the most gifted and talented Mormon women tend to have large families (traditionally) and maybe even reproduce at a higher rate than less intelligent women because of a variety of factors.  Gifted and talented non-LDS women tend to have fewer children than they would need to even replace themselves.

I don't get this at all. Only intelligent Mormon women have large families? I don't see the corollation there. It would seem that smarter women would have fewer children to use up the ever declining natural resources of the earth before we all begin killing each other for a loaf of bread. (not that this will happen in our lifetimes, but if we don't curb our breeding, it will happen.)

So what do you think?  I have read quotes from church leaders that seem to suggest the exact arguments that this teacher is except he was using a neo-Darwinistic approach rather than one coupled with spiritual insights.  However, if you took out the word "God" out of our church leader's comments they sound very Darwinistic.

Sounds like a load of old cobblers to me.

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Originally posted by Jason@Sep 7 2005, 03:23 PM

Apparently they're not smart enough to stop fighting in the middle east.  So what kind of "intelligence" does that leave them with?  A knack for numbers? 

What's you premise?

-that if you are smart, Palestinian terrorists will stop bombing you?

-that if you are smart, you will abandon your homeland?

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Okay, I will note that I am adopted. I have the values of my parents (those who raised me) but none of the aptitudes or personality characteristics of my family.

When I met my biological family members when I was in my 20s I noticed that a half sister had a lot in common with me but my full sister had the same basic interests, aptitudes, and many of the little personality "quirks" that I have. And our scores in high school and college were remarkably the same -- and our interests were in the same subjects.

My take on it is that the bodies we get (including our brains) are a factor of our genetics and our spirits are a factor of the pre-existence. The intelligence we display here on earth is not a reflection of our intelligence in the spirit world or else is a person born severely retarded going to be severely retarded in the next life? Was he/she in this condition in the pre-existence?

In other words, highly intelligent people will give birth to highly intelligent people GENERALLY. Two people who marry who have an IQ of 70 will EXTREMELY rarely give birth to a genius (and if they do it is likely the low IQ score of one or both was due to a non-genetic factor such as oxygen deprivation in the womb or a mother who used drugs).

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Originally posted by Snow+Sep 7 2005, 08:13 PM-->

<[email protected] 7 2005, 03:23 PM

Apparently they're not smart enough to stop fighting in the middle east.  So what kind of "intelligence" does that leave them with?  A knack for numbers? 

What's you premise?

-that if you are smart, Palestinian terrorists will stop bombing you?

-that if you are smart, you will abandon your homeland?

Is Missouri the "homeland" of Mormons? If Mormons began buying up large tracts of northern Missouri, and attempted to establish a rival nation-state, do you think it would upset anyone? You better believe it!

Palestine hasn't been the homeland of Jews for nearly 2000 fricken years! To call it their homeland is utterly absurd. That's like saying that the Indus river valley is my homeland (or the Nile, or the Yellow or which ever river valley you choose to believe you developed from). It's ancient history. Jews had no more of a right to the lands in Palestine than I do a tract of land in Schleswig-Holstein! The Jews moved back in 60 years ago and act like they've been there all along. And they play the dumb card like they don't know why everyone's so upset? Give me a break.

There's nothing intelligent about it. When Israel stops killing innocent Palestinian civilians, perhaps the suicide bombers will stop killing in kind.

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Originally posted by Jason+Sep 7 2005, 08:27 PM-->

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 08:13 PM

<[email protected] 7 2005, 03:23 PM

Apparently they're not smart enough to stop fighting in the middle east.  So what kind of "intelligence" does that leave them with?  A knack for numbers? 

What's you premise?

-that if you are smart, Palestinian terrorists will stop bombing you?

-that if you are smart, you will abandon your homeland?

Is Missouri the "homeland" of Mormons? If Mormons began buying up large tracts of northern Missouri, and attempted to establish a rival nation-state, do you think it would upset anyone? You better believe it!

Palestine hasn't been the homeland of Jews for nearly 2000 fricken years! To call it their homeland is utterly absurd. That's like saying that the Indus river valley is my homeland (or the Nile, or the Yellow or which ever river valley you choose to believe you developed from). It's ancient history. Jews had no more of a right to the lands in Palestine than I do a tract of land in Schleswig-Holstein! The Jews moved back in 60 years ago and act like they've been there all along. And they play the dumb card like they don't know why everyone's so upset? Give me a break.

There's nothing intelligent about it. When Israel stops killing innocent Palestinian civilians, perhaps the suicide bombers will stop killing in kind.

Oh - you weren't really making a comment on intelligence, you're just an anti-semite looking for an opportunity to bash Jews. Why am I not surprized?

Here's a point of legal fact for you Jason, Israel is a homeland granted to the Jews in 1948 by the United Natioins. You can whine about it but the fact remains that Israel is a homeland to the Jews.

To be fair to you Jason, you're over your head here. I can tell because you are under the mistaken notion that Jews moved into Palestine 60 years ago. That, and you make up something out of thing air - your "dumb card" which is not even a real issue since it is no mystery to anyone, including the Jews why the Palestinians and Arabs and Muslims are upset. And you act as if Palestinian terrorism is a result of Jews killing innocent civilians.

Sure, you could scurry to the internet and look up some polemical sources to support your anti-jewish agenda, but you'd be playing catch up on the fly. I've already done my homework from independent sources, in print, on the internet and in-person lectures from both the Palestinian and Jewish side and don't have to scramble to find anything, hence I can easily spot you in your mistakes, like, "The Jews moved back in 60 years ago and act like they've been there all along."

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I don't get this at all. Only intelligent Mormon women have large families? I don't see the corollation there. It would seem that smarter women would have fewer children to use up the ever declining natural resources of the earth before we all begin killing each other for a loaf of bread. (not that this will happen in our lifetimes, but if we don't curb our breeding, it will happen.)

I think he means that if an intelligent woman has more babies that means that mostlikely they will all be raised with love for learning instilled in them at a young age. and i'm sure the second coming will happen long before overpopulation has gotten to the point that people will be killing others over a loaf of bread.

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Snow, I am not anti-semitic, and I doubt that Jason is too...I have for years argued the case of the Jews in Israel, except that recently I too have looked deeper into the issues...I'm going to reprint an article from the Internet, which looks at the Israeli/Palestinian issues from the veiwpoint of an Orthodox Jew, hope this helps!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does Israel belong to the Jews?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: April 26, 2002

1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

Ask a group of Christians why they support Israel's efforts against the Palestinians and you'll probably hear back that Jews hold the deed to the dirt. God gave it to them.

This can be quickly verified by checking the Old Testament: "This is the land of which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, 'I will give it to your offspring'" (Deut. 34:4). Numerous passages in Genesis and Exodus speak to the same thing. But this is not the whole story.

"If you are not careful to do all the words of this law … you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of it," warns Moses in Deuteronomy 28. "And the LORD will scatter you among all the peoples, from one end of the earth to the other. …"

God was making covenant with Israel. Covenants are conditional. This is why they come with the promise of blessings and the warning of curses. If God's people faithfully obey his commands, they prosper. If they don't, God lowers the boom.

"Before the Almighty gave us the Holy Land 3260 years ago, He made these conditions: If we abide by the Torah, it is ours, if not, we will be expelled," explains Orthodox Rabbi E. Schwartz of Neturei Karta.

We know from Scripture that God's gift of the land to Abraham and his decedents was not unconditional. God threw them off the land a few times – not that God broke the promise. God never breaks a promise, but man certainly does renege on his end of the bargain. When that happens, hello Assyrians, hello Babylonians, hello Rome.

Right here is where dispensationalists like Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye point to Ezekiel 37 and the promise of a restored Israel, which they say happened in 1948 with the founding of the modern-day nation Israel: Sure the Jews were scattered by the Romans, but they've returned. They're back in the land. That's how we know it's the end times.

Maybe. But we should ask ourselves something: If the Israelites were driven from the land by God for not keeping covenant with him, why are they back on the land now and still not keeping covenant with him?

This is a perennial problem among Orthodox Jews. For them a political savior ignores the genuine cause of the exile and, thus, its genuine solution. God sent the Israelites eviction papers in the form of prophetic warnings about their sins and calls to repentance (e.g., Ezekiel and Jeremiah). Those papers aren't void until repentance comes.

"Only through complete repentance will the Almighty alone, without any human intervention, redeem us from exile," says Schwartz, who quickly moves to condemn Zionism as the brainchild of atheists and denial of the covenantal understanding of the Diaspora.

Many Christians are likewise clueless these days about the concept of covenant. Our ideas of "New Testament Christianity" have stripped our understanding of the vital doctrines of the Old Testament. As such, many Christians simply assume that modern-day Israel, despite its continued unbelief, is the restored Israel.

This frequently leads Christians to uncritically accept whatever happens in the Holy Land by Israelis as OK, regardless of whether in particular instances Israel might be wildly in the wrong. By muddling our theology and foreign policy this way we approve of injustices as if they were permitted by heavenly warrant. Either that or we refuse to consider any evidence against Israeli actions as going against God himself.

This is not an adequate response to the Jewish-Palestinian conflict.

"There are biblical reasons for treating both sides with compassionate public justice in the same way that disputes should be settled between nations generally," says Baptist theologian John Piper. "In other words, the Bible does not teach us to be partial to Israel or to the Palestinians because either has a special divine status."

Echoing Rabbi Schwartz, Piper notes, "a non-covenant-keeping people does not have a divine right to hold the land of promise. … Israel has no warrant to a present experience of divine privilege when she is not keeping covenant with God."

As such, the Christian response should be to weigh judicially the claims of both sides to the land and actions to defend or take it and to continue to evangelize them both – salvation is as much for the Jew as the Palestinian. And we must not forget this last point. The Jews' final expulsion happened because they rejected the Messiah. Until they accept him, they are forever in exile.

This is not an argument for pacifism or a wink at Palestinian aggression. Aggressors must be stopped, killed if necessary. But we must not quickly assume the righteousness of the Israelis simply because they are "God's chosen" and the evil of the Palestinians because they are not.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Special offer:

Americans have been told for 200 years that drinking alcohol is sinful – but is it? "God Gave Wine" by Kenneth Gentry argues from Scripture that alcohol is a blessing from God and should be delighted in and enjoyed. Order the book today at GodGaveWine.com.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Joel Miller is senior editor of Nelson Current and author of "Bad Trip: How the War Against Drugs is Destroying America." He blogs at RazorMouth.com.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=27395

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Originally posted by pushka@Sep 8 2005, 09:34 AM

Snow, I am not anti-semitic, and I doubt that Jason is too...I have for years argued the case of the Jews in Israel, except that recently I too have looked deeper into the issues...I'm going to reprint an article from the Internet, which looks at the Israeli/Palestinian issues from the veiwpoint of an Orthodox Jew, hope this helps!

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does Israel belong to the Jews?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: April 26, 2002

1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

Ask a group of Christians why they support Israel's efforts against the Palestinians and you'll probably hear back that Jews hold the deed to the dirt. God gave it to them.

This can be quickly verified by checking the Old Testament: "This is the land of which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, 'I will give it to your offspring'" (Deut. 34:4). Numerous passages in Genesis and Exodus speak to the same thing. But this is not the whole story.

"If you are not careful to do all the words of this law … you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of it," warns Moses in Deuteronomy 28. "And the LORD will scatter you among all the peoples, from one end of the earth to the other. …"

God was making covenant with Israel. Covenants are conditional. This is why they come with the promise of blessings and the warning of curses. If God's people faithfully obey his commands, they prosper. If they don't, God lowers the boom.

"Before the Almighty gave us the Holy Land 3260 years ago, He made these conditions: If we abide by the Torah, it is ours, if not, we will be expelled," explains Orthodox Rabbi E. Schwartz of Neturei Karta.

We know from Scripture that God's gift of the land to Abraham and his decedents was not unconditional. God threw them off the land a few times – not that God broke the promise. God never breaks a promise, but man certainly does renege on his end of the bargain. When that happens, hello Assyrians, hello Babylonians, hello Rome.

Right here is where dispensationalists like Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye point to Ezekiel 37 and the promise of a restored Israel, which they say happened in 1948 with the founding of the modern-day nation Israel: Sure the Jews were scattered by the Romans, but they've returned. They're back in the land. That's how we know it's the end times.

Maybe. But we should ask ourselves something: If the Israelites were driven from the land by God for not keeping covenant with him, why are they back on the land now and still not keeping covenant with him?

This is a perennial problem among Orthodox Jews. For them a political savior ignores the genuine cause of the exile and, thus, its genuine solution. God sent the Israelites eviction papers in the form of prophetic warnings about their sins and calls to repentance (e.g., Ezekiel and Jeremiah). Those papers aren't void until repentance comes.

"Only through complete repentance will the Almighty alone, without any human intervention, redeem us from exile," says Schwartz, who quickly moves to condemn Zionism as the brainchild of atheists and denial of the covenantal understanding of the Diaspora.

Many Christians are likewise clueless these days about the concept of covenant. Our ideas of "New Testament Christianity" have stripped our understanding of the vital doctrines of the Old Testament. As such, many Christians simply assume that modern-day Israel, despite its continued unbelief, is the restored Israel.

This frequently leads Christians to uncritically accept whatever happens in the Holy Land by Israelis as OK, regardless of whether in particular instances Israel might be wildly in the wrong. By muddling our theology and foreign policy this way we approve of injustices as if they were permitted by heavenly warrant. Either that or we refuse to consider any evidence against Israeli actions as going against God himself.

This is not an adequate response to the Jewish-Palestinian conflict.

"There are biblical reasons for treating both sides with compassionate public justice in the same way that disputes should be settled between nations generally," says Baptist theologian John Piper. "In other words, the Bible does not teach us to be partial to Israel or to the Palestinians because either has a special divine status."

Echoing Rabbi Schwartz, Piper notes, "a non-covenant-keeping people does not have a divine right to hold the land of promise. … Israel has no warrant to a present experience of divine privilege when she is not keeping covenant with God."

As such, the Christian response should be to weigh judicially the claims of both sides to the land and actions to defend or take it and to continue to evangelize them both – salvation is as much for the Jew as the Palestinian. And we must not forget this last point. The Jews' final expulsion happened because they rejected the Messiah. Until they accept him, they are forever in exile.

This is not an argument for pacifism or a wink at Palestinian aggression. Aggressors must be stopped, killed if necessary. But we must not quickly assume the righteousness of the Israelis simply because they are "God's chosen" and the evil of the Palestinians because they are not.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Special offer:

Americans have been told for 200 years that drinking alcohol is sinful – but is it? "God Gave Wine" by Kenneth Gentry argues from Scripture that alcohol is a blessing from God and should be delighted in and enjoyed. Order the book today at GodGaveWine.com.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Joel Miller is senior editor of Nelson Current and author of "Bad Trip: How the War Against Drugs is Destroying America." He blogs at RazorMouth.com.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=27395

Good article Pushka. Thanks for sharing.

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Thank you Please...I have searched further and found articles which state the opposite of the above, however I really feel this is an issue which is so deep and now emeshed in politics that nobody is likely to solve it to the satisfaction of all parties involved, which is very, very sad...all that continuing destruction over a piece of land!

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Originally posted by Snow@Sep 7 2005, 11:01 PM

Oh - you weren't really making a comment on intelligence, you're just an anti-semite looking for an opportunity to bash Jews. Why am I not surprized?

You are surprised, and your anti-semite comment is uncalled for. Im not anti-Jewish. I demand a retraction, Snow.

Here's a point of legal fact for you Jason, Israel is a homeland granted to the Jews in 1948 by the United Natioins. You can whine about it but the fact remains that Israel is a homeland to the Jews.

Im very aware of this, Snow. I have a BA in Political Science friend, I took classes dealing with this very issue.

The UN should never have taken it upon itself to declare someone else's land the property of a non-occupant.

That is just as immoral as the Supreme Court declaring that for the sake of economic developement, your house can be taken from you so that some [email protected]@-hole can put in a shopping mall.

To be fair to you Jason, you're over your head here.

Hardly. The only reason the UN put the jews in Palestine is because neither the US, the UK, the newly created NATO alliance states, nor Russia wanted them. They talked about placing them in Africa, but that didn't seem to fit. So they make up this BS about a "homeland" and send them to live with those "backward" Palestinians.

Then when the Palestinians started to get upset at the Jewish immigration, even to the point of violence, we get the guilts and toss a hefty amount of money their way so that they will stay put, and not move into the USA. (Even to the donation of Nuclear technology. Aren't we benevelent!)

That's the real deal Snow. To imply otherwise means you've been blindsided by either the standard party-line of having an ally in the Middle East (which we could and do have without Isreal), or your possessed by some kind of Christian Fundamentalism hoping that with the Jews in Jerusalem, maybe Jesus won't be a no-show after all.

Which is it?

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The mere fact that this has turned into a debate on Israel I suppose demonstrates that there are no compelling arguments against the case that intelligence is inherited or that social factors which exist in Ashkenazi Jewish history and contemporary Mormon society today did or does promote higher intelligence in the gene pool while the gene pool of the dominant culture will likely fall in the future.

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I’ve already stated what I believe are compelling arguments against your ideas, but if that doesn’t work for you I will no longer argue… except maybe to say one or two more things. J

First, to say that people of Israel have more intelligence than others simply because they are of Israel doesn’t make sense to many when most people of Israel don’t even know who their Messiah is even after thousands of years.

And to think that the “Mormon” society possesses more intelligence simply because they are “Mormons” doesn’t make sense to me either, since most “Mormons” today are not genetic descendants of other Mormons and many who are do not act intelligently, which seems to indicate that intelligence must come from “somewhere else”.

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First, Mormon converts tend to be non-conformist which implies a certain level of intellect.

Second, converts tend to be curious and seeking something outside of the norm -- again a general sign of intelligence.

Third, the more devout tend to be the ones who study their religion the most. Most families I know with 7 or 8 kids tend to be highly intelligent and the mothers are just as intellectual as the fathers even though the woman might not have finished college.

Mormons are probably the only group of primarily European origin in which more education does not lead to lower birthrates.

Over time this would likely lead to an increasing IQ while the general society sees a decline.

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Originally posted by Fiannan@Sep 8 2005, 01:34 PM

First, Mormon converts tend to be non-conformist which implies a certain level of intellect.

So that must also go for those of us who have de-converted?

Second, converts tend to be curious and seeking something outside of the norm -- again a general sign of intelligence.

Again, the exmormon must be intelligent according to your theory.

Third, the more devout tend to be the ones who study their religion the most.  Most families I know with 7 or 8 kids tend to be highly intelligent and the mothers are just as intellectual as the fathers even though the woman might not have finished college.

I studied so much that I left the LDS church. Then I studied so much that I left the Eastern Orthodox Church.

I must be pretty darn smart! ;)

Mormons are probably the only group of primarily European origin in which more education does not lead to lower birthrates.

That's a sign of intelligence? Seems more like ignorance. Too many religious Christians out there could care less about destroying the world around them, 'cause Jesus is a comin'.

Like the comment by a new poster on another thread that she's not worried about overpopulation, because Jesus will come before that happens.

:blink:

Over time this would likely lead to an increasing IQ while the general society sees a decline.

Other than the say-so of some college teacher, do you have any hard evidence for us to consider? It's pretty difficult to argue with facts when there are none present.

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Originally posted by Jason+Sep 8 2005, 02:10 PM-->

<[email protected] 8 2005, 01:34 PM

First, Mormon converts tend to be non-conformist which implies a certain level of intellect.

So that must also go for those of us who have de-converted?

Second, converts tend to be curious and seeking something outside of the norm -- again a general sign of intelligence.

Again, the exmormon must be intelligent according to your theory.

Third, the more devout tend to be the ones who study their religion the most.  Most families I know with 7 or 8 kids tend to be highly intelligent and the mothers are just as intellectual as the fathers even though the woman might not have finished college.

I studied so much that I left the LDS church. Then I studied so much that I left the Eastern Orthodox Church.

I must be pretty darn smart! ;)

Mormons are probably the only group of primarily European origin in which more education does not lead to lower birthrates.

That's a sign of intelligence? Seems more like ignorance. Too many religious Christians out there could care less about destroying the world around them, 'cause Jesus is a comin'.

Like the comment by a new poster on another thread that she's not worried about overpopulation, because Jesus will come before that happens.

:blink:

Over time this would likely lead to an increasing IQ while the general society sees a decline.

Other than the say-so of some college teacher, do you have any hard evidence for us to consider? It's pretty difficult to argue with facts when there are none present.

You leaned tooooo much to your own understanding and didn't listen to the Spirit or you wouldn't be tossed with every wind of doctrine.

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