Molly Mormon And Peter Priesthood Types.


Winnie G
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My heart goes out to you too, Winnie, and while it does frustrate me to see behavior like that from people, especially from people in the Church, the best thing we can do is teach and set examples for others to follow, remembering that the Lord organized His Church for the perfection of saints, and there is still a lot of work to be done!

Or in other words, as one of your examples showed, it is good to speak up about things that are not right to help correct problem situations in the future, instead of keeping your mouth shut and putting up with it… although it will help to speak with love when you do speak up. And if you don’t want to speak up, or don’t think you can do so effectively, bring your concerns to the attention of your ward or stake leaders so they can discuss how to correct those problems during correlation and leadership meetings. It’s up to us to make the world a better place for everybody.

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Soulsearcher, I sympathise with the troubles that you and your LDS friend went through at that time when she was ill. I agree fully with your opinion of the R.S. women who visited but passed judgement and pressured your friend into feeling uncomfortable with you staying there.

Daizymae, I agree that for one member to devote 3 days to this lady's plight might have been difficult, but surely under the circumstances the sisters could have worked out some sort of rota for 24 hours cover for such a short period?

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If people truly lived the Gospel they would not judge each other by appearance. For instance, would you condemn a man going around telling people to repent and put their fath in God who was preaching in the nude? Extreme case huh? Well, read Isaiah 20 -- that's what God commanded him to do for a couple of years.

How about a guy wearing animal skins and eating grasshoppers? Well, check up on John the Baptist.

Point is, these were men of God who were certainly not conformists to the general culture in the least. So what right do we have to condemn a person who is a redneck or a hippy? How about condemning people for their particular personality? We should not even look down on the Mollys or the Peters either.

Judge according to actions but not on appearance. The goal of the Gospel is to conform our individual souls to the attributes of God and progress, not to make us all look the same and act the same. A sacrament prayer is just as valid if the priesthood holder is wearing a sweater and no tie and a member can be just as devout if he wears leather, has long hair, and spends his free time riding a motorcycle

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This last Sunday a new member who has glued herself to me, said to me in RS that she thought the RS president did not like her, I said Oh no she just looks that way she works way to hard and Sunday she is just beat, I was thankful that sure enough the RS president gave her a big smile and thanked her for a comment she made during the lession.

This sister bore her testimony after I stood up and had a complete meltdown over my mother about having faith and knowledge that she was in the Lords hands after the spirit bore witness to me after a trip to the Temple were I was greatly worried about her leaving the church. This new sister said that in the morning she wondered why she should even bother with church and it was not till we as sisters bore our testimony’s she realized it was for her to be there and to learn from the sisters the gospel in its truest form, faith in action she called it then she had a melt down and called this whole this worse then a Opra show.

It was just the giggle we needed.

We find Molly Mormon types were ever we go, it is up to us to stand up and be there for those who need us when others fail their faith and act in shamefully towards our sisters and brothers.

OK I am off my soapbox now.

:bearhug:

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Originally posted by Winnie G@Sep 9 2005, 12:19 AM

We find Molly Mormon types were ever we go, it is up to us to stand up and be there for those who need us when others fail their faith and act in shamefully towards our sisters and brothers.

You are right Winnie.

The church teaches perfection but I feel that that is not obtainable here on earth. Those who profess to have "Arrived" by acting like the Mollys and Peters are out of touch with reality IMHO.

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To help clear up any misunderstanding that I might have, or that some other people might have, it might help if someone explained exactly what they mean whey they refer to people as "Molly Mormons" or "Peter Priesthoods". I think I know what you're talking about, but I may be wrong.

And to start the ball rolling, to me, "Molly Mormons" and "Peter Priesthoods" are women and men in the Church who think there is a right way and a wrong way to be, and they rely on leaders of the Church to help them understand the right way to be.

And btw, President Hinckley wrote a book called "Way to Be", so is he a Peter

Priesthood type too?

Anyway, please clarify what you think I do not understand if you think my definition of "Molly Mormons" and "Peter Priesthoods" needs further enlightenment.

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Originally posted by Ray@Sep 9 2005, 09:49 AM

To help clear up any misunderstanding that I might have, or that some other people might have, it might help if someone explained exactly what they mean whey they refer to people as "Molly Mormons" or "Peter Priesthoods".  I think I know what you're talking about, but I may be wrong.

And to start the ball rolling, to me, "Molly Mormons" and "Peter Priesthoods" are women and men in the Church who think there is a right way and a wrong way to be, and they rely on leaders of the Church to help them understand the right way to be.

And btw, President Hinckley wrote a book called "Way to Be", so is he a Peter

Priesthood type too?

Anyway, please clarify what you think I do not understand if you think my definition of "Molly Mormons" and "Peter Priesthoods" needs further enlightenment.

I think they are calling people who are like pharasees the molly mormons and peter priesthoods. They are anal and non-christian attituded people who find it easier to condemn than to help. In other words they live the letter of the law and throw out the spirit... literally.

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Originally posted by Please+Sep 9 2005, 09:56 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray@Sep 9 2005, 09:49 AM

Anyway, please clarify what you think I do not understand if you think my definition of "Molly Mormons" and "Peter Priesthoods" needs further enlightenment.

In other words they live the letter of the law and throw out the spirit... literally.

Yes Please. :D

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Ahh, I see. So you guys aren’t talking so much about how it is wrong for “Molly Mormons” and “Peter Priesthoods” to let men know they should wear a white shirt and tie and keep their hair trimmed to show reverence, for instance, but that “Molly Mormons” and “Peter Priesthoods” should also talk about why it is important to show reverence and even go so far as to help men get white shirts and ties and haircuts if some men can’t provide those things for themselves.

Like Forrest Gump, I appreciate it when people explain things so I can understand them.

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Originally posted by Soulsearcher@Sep 9 2005, 09:46 AM

And again i fail to see how dress code should even enter into faith.  It's people not all knowing, loving, compasionate beings that care about appearance.

Or atleast that's what i got out of the bible, man judges, god loves. 

Again i could be wrong.

If nobody on Earth cared, would you go to Church to worship God wearing nothing at all when you did have something better to wear? You aren’t even allowed to run around in public while naked, so why go to Church that way? And if you are going to put on some clothes, why not put on the best clothes you have when you go to worship God?

And btw, I wear the same blue suit to Church every Sunday because it's the best one I have, and it didn't cost me a fortune to buy it.

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Originally posted by Ray@Sep 9 2005, 10:37 AM

Ahh, I see.  So you guys aren’t talking so much about how it is wrong for “Molly Mormons” and “Peter Priesthoods” to let men know they should wear a white shirt and tie and keep their hair trimmed to show reverence, for instance, but that “Molly Mormons” and “Peter Priesthoods” should also talk about why it is important to show reverence and even go so far as to help men get white shirts and ties and haircuts if some men can’t provide those things for themselves.

Like Forrest Gump, I appreciate it when people explain things so I can understand them.

Wait. I didn't say that it is okay for Mollys and Peters to offend someone for the way they dress, that would be more like the Letter of the Law wouldn't it? These things should be taught within the confines of a family or close friends not by the average Joe, Molly, or Peter. If on the other hand it is part of a lesson and it is handled with tact then it would be fine. For Brother John to tell Brother Jones that he is out of line for his appearance that would be wrong IMHO.

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I don’t know about you, but if I didn’t dress “appropriately”, the more people there were to let me know how to dress “appropriately” the more I would get the message that there is an “appropriate” way to dress, and the more people who offered to help buy me the clothes I needed to dress “appropriately” if I couldn’t afford to buy those clothes myself, the more I would appreciate how important it is to dress “appropriately” and the sooner I would have those clothes.

Or in other words, if only one person talked about “dressing appropriately” every once in a while during Sacrament meetings, and it was only talk, I could understand how people might get the impression that it isn’t an important idea to consider, but if everybody talked about how important it is to dress appropriately while offering to help buy the appropriate clothing if necessary, it wouldn’t take long before everybody got the message and everybody would be dressing appropriately. Or at least it seems it would work that way for me.

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Originally posted by Ray@Sep 9 2005, 11:33 AM

I don’t know about you, but if I didn’t dress “appropriately”, the more people there were to let me know how to dress “appropriately” the more I would get the message that there is an “appropriate” way to dress, and the more people who offered to help buy me the clothes I needed to dress “appropriately” if I couldn’t afford to buy those clothes myself, the more I would appreciate how important it is to dress “appropriately” and the sooner I would have those clothes.

Or in other words, if only one person talked about “dressing appropriately” every once in a while during Sacrament meetings, and it was only talk, I could understand how people might get the impression that it isn’t an important idea to consider, but if everybody talked about how important it is to dress appropriately while offering to help buy the appropriate clothing if necessary, it wouldn’t take long before everybody got the message and everybody would be dressing appropriately.  Or at least it seems it would work that way for me.

When it comes to the way others are dressed I think that it is best for the average guy or gal to teach by example. Pretty soon they will understand that it is important to dress in a certain way. When you are looking to teach someone about dressing "respectably" it is best to treat them respectably. If money is the issue then they can discuss this with the bishop in private.

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SF, I agree with you on the dress code business...Please, I agree with you too, and Soulsearcher!

I understand, and I believe all those attending your church whether dressed, in your opinion, appropriately enough, understand the general wish to be respective of the general dress code of the places we visit...for instance in Greek Monastries tourists..women, are encouraged to cover their shoulders out of respect, however I don't think that people should be judged by anyone else because they do not, or cannot follow the dress code strictly...as Soulsearcher and the other posters have noted, it is not our outward appearance that matters, but what is in our hearts...

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Winnie...I don't know what happened to me yesterday, but I missed all of your posts about your experiences with the people who judged you when you were bringing up your children alone.

I am very sorry that you had to go through those experiences...from all of your posts I get the feeling that you are a very resilient, yet sensitive and caring person, and you deserve much respect.

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I too believe in teaching by osmosis, but you might be amazed to hear some of the things some people have yet to learn by simply being around people who know things. For instance, a bishop can help with all sorts of things, but if nobody talks about what kind of help a bishop can provide, many people will never think to ask a bishop for much of the help he can give them.

Or in other words, many people think a bishop is there to only provide spiritual guidance for the ward, because most people do not or will not talk about how they have received or can receive financial support from him. So if a person looks around and sees people at Church meetings wearing “respectable” clothing, and they really can’t afford to buy “respectable” clothing, and they don’t know the bishop can help them with those expenses, they can get the idea that they shouldn’t go to Church until they can buy those clothes themselves, which might take a while depending on how they manage their money.

It’s not that people are dumb, we are simply ignorant of things we don’t know.

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Originally posted by Ray@Sep 9 2005, 12:53 PM

I too believe in teaching by osmosis, but you might be amazed to hear some of the things some people have yet to learn by simply being around people who know things.  For instance, a bishop can help with all sorts of things, but if nobody talks about what kind of help a bishop can provide, many people will never think to ask a bishop for much of the help he can give them.

Or in other words, many people think a bishop is there to only provide spiritual guidance for the ward, because most people do not or will not talk about how they have received or can receive financial support from him.  So if a person looks around and sees people at Church meetings wearing “respectable” clothing, and they really can’t afford to buy “respectable” clothing, and they don’t know the bishop can help them with those expenses, they can get the idea that they shouldn’t go to Church until they can buy those clothes themselves, which might take a while depending on how they manage their money. 

It’s not that people are dumb, we are simply ignorant of things we don’t know.

Ray, don't you know that when you insult someone for the way they dress you insult them personally? If you were to say something about the way they dress that in and of it self could keep people away from the church. I don't think that we will be judged by the way we dress, we will be judged by what is in our hearts.

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There is a big difference between “insulting” someone for the clothes they wear and “teaching” someone they should wear more appropriate clothing. And mark my words, I never suggested that we should “insult” someone for the way they dress.

For instance, the Young Women’s President in my ward (who was recently released) frequently wore clothing that was not modest, and she set an example for all Young Women to follow. Now, while I did not speak to her myself, because the appropriate situation didn’t come up for me to have that discussion with her, I do think it would have been nice if “somebody” in the Church had talked with her to let her know she should have dressed more modestly. And please also mark my words about how that discussion should have been in an appropriate situation, as of course all teaching opportunities should.

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Originally posted by Soulsearcher@Sep 9 2005, 10:46 AM

And again i fail to see how dress code should even enter into faith.  It's people not all knowing, loving, compasionate beings that care about appearance.

Or atleast that's what i got out of the bible, man judges, god loves. 

Again i could be wrong.

Personally I believe we act how we dress. When I am in my nitygown I act all easy going and loungy.

When I am dressed up really fine, I walk more lady like, keep my head high and my back straight and my eyes forward.

When I am in my play clothes I don't care how I sit, or stand and I laugh a lot.

When I am in my swimming suit, I hide.

How we dress definitely makes a difference in our behavior.

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I really don't want to give in to the 'the way you dress is important' argument that Ray is presenting, however I am willing to support him a little as I know that this is a big issue with you folks...

So, I would suggest that rather than speaking to individuals, the Presidents of each of the classes, PH, RS, YW etc. hold a meeting with the Bishop who instructs all of them about teaching respect in all ways when in church, including dress codes, and instructs them to tell their classes about how people can consult with him if they need any help in any of these areas...

A compromise I suppose...I still don't feel it is that important myself, but maybe it may make one or two people feel better if they are no longer being treated unkindly by others because of their dress code...I feel a message in toleration and not being judgemental would also be appropriate for all members!

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Originally posted by Please@Sep 9 2005, 02:49 PM

When I am in my swimming suit, I hide.

.

Me too :P

I agree that our appearance has a lot to do with how we carry ourselves, but that can be manifested different ways by different people.

You compare someone who stays in their jammies most of the day with someone who wears a business suit every day. The one in pj's might carry themself the same way in jeans and a t-shirt that the businessperson carries themself in a tuxedo. It has a lot to do with what our norm is. Someone who doesn't have much might wear a nices pair of jeans to church and feel very dressed up and feel like they are giving their best to the Lord.....and two rows down you might have a girl in a casual skirt and flip-flops, who obviously dressed simply for comfort. So who's right? The one who wore a dress because that's what is considered "approrpiate" or the one who dressed with their best in mind?

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Originally posted by daizymae+Sep 9 2005, 03:00 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Sep 9 2005, 02:49 PM

When I am in my swimming suit, I hide.

.

Me too :P

I agree that our appearance has a lot to do with how we carry ourselves, but that can be manifested different ways by different people.

You compare someone who stays in their jammies most of the day with someone who wears a business suit every day. The one in pj's might carry themself the same way in jeans and a t-shirt that the businessperson carries themself in a tuxedo. It has a lot to do with what our norm is. Someone who doesn't have much might wear a nices pair of jeans to church and feel very dressed up and feel like they are giving their best to the Lord.....and two rows down you might have a girl in a casual skirt and flip-flops, who obviously dressed simply for comfort. So who's right? The one who wore a dress because that's what is considered "approrpiate" or the one who dressed with their best in mind?

I agree. Actually, I have always wished that the church could operate it's meetings with a little more relaxed atmosphere.

I like the TV image of the catholic church where you can just walk in any time of day or night in anything you have on and pray or find a priest to talk with... you know?

I am not bothered by anyone in casual clothes coming in. One of our High Priest group presidency came in a flanel plaid shirt about three weeks ago... he was coming straight from work and didn't have time to change... I thought it was cool for him to show up at all.

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