The LDS view of ex-Mormons who become Christian


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As an ex-Mormon, I'm trying to figure out exactly what view the LDS would deem my fate is in the afterlife, while I am a Christian? I don't subscribe to any organized religion, other than to call myself a Christian because I do believe Jesus Christ was God, and I do not believe in the BOM.

I'm getting all the ducks in a row before I send off my resignation letter, but this is one I can't find an answer to.

Thanks

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Halfers is right. With prayer and a sincere, humble heart, you can find out your status with God on your own. :)

What I'm looking for isn't opinion, but some sort of official (if you want to call it that) position. If the LDS do baptism for the dead, they are offering the dead a chance to accept the LDS church. For those bron between 1AD and 1830 I understand this concept, but if I have been given the opportunity to accept the LDS church and was baptized a Mormon, but later reject the BOM yet believe in the bible, am I, per the Mormon doctrine, going to be cast into eternal darkness for doing so?

This is a big deal and I just want to know what I'm signing up for.

Thanks.

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Hrm I think there is a quote somewhere about how we are judged based on the amount of knowledge we are given before rejecting the gospel. And how sincere we are in our beliefs. Ms. Halfway and Funky are completely correct; only God can answer that question for you.

IF hypothetically you knew an awful lot about the church before joining and made an informed choice, then decided to reject it due to not having hometeachers (or some other minor offense of man), your judgement will/would be harsher than if you were baptized at 8, in an inactive family, decided you didn't care for the people and just left, never having a real testimony of the church.

Only God can look at your heart and see which type of scenario you fall into.

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What I'm looking for isn't opinion, but some sort of official (if you want to call it that) position. If the LDS do baptism for the dead, they are offering the dead a chance to accept the LDS church. For those bron between 1AD and 1830 I understand this concept, but if I have been given the opportunity to accept the LDS church and was baptized a Mormon, but later reject the BOM yet believe in the bible, am I, per the Mormon doctrine, going to be cast into eternal darkness for doing so?

This is a big deal and I just want to know what I'm signing up for.

Thanks.

There isn't anything official. Because you are asking for something that is done by God at our final judgment. There are members of the church who don't believe in the church but don't have their names removed. Your situation is similar to them and the church has no official position on their fate or judgment.

No one knows the answer you are looking for. Whatever answers you get will be pure speculation and I seriously doubt any General Authority would even try to tell you a position.

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What I'm looking for isn't opinion, but some sort of official (if you want to call it that) position. If the LDS do baptism for the dead, they are offering the dead a chance to accept the LDS church. For those bron between 1AD and 1830 I understand this concept, but if I have been given the opportunity to accept the LDS church and was baptized a Mormon, but later reject the BOM yet believe in the bible, am I, per the Mormon doctrine, going to be cast into eternal darkness for doing so?

This is a big deal and I just want to know what I'm signing up for.

Thanks.

You can look in the D&C and how it describes the inhabitants of the three kingdoms. You can know that we will be judged on our hearts and our level of spiritual knowledge. If one walks away from revealed truth and denies it out of vanity or pride or love of sin or some other reason, it would be logical to think that there would be consequences. Outer darkness is something else and you can look that up as well. Might be good to study hell and get a firm grasp of the LDS concept of it.

But at the end, I come back to my first answer. If truth is what you seek.....truth about doctrine and truth about yourself.....it is God that has those answers. He is the one who makes the final decisions about people and their lives and their hearts.

And you know....I wanted to add that walking away from the church isn't your only answer. If you have concerns about the BofM or other things, there are answers and supports and guidance to help you figure things out over time. Being LDS isn't an all or nothing kind of deal.

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This is very interesting!! You are a "Christian" but imply the LDS Church is not. And, you believe in Christ, not the B of M, another testament of Christ. I wonder if you want to deny the truthfulness of and restoration of the gospel, the authority of the priesthood and the latter-day prophets? If you really don't think any of this is true, why does it matter what the church states your eternal life would be? It’s not true, correct?? What's really the bottom line here? The gospel, the organization of the church, the idea that an uneducated boy of 15 could translate something like the Book of Mormon? Or, do you just feel more comfortable in, or is it easier to be a part of an evangelical church that has no boundaries or is guilt-free? And, by denying the church you can enter into another religion in full membership?

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This is a big deal and I just want to know what I'm signing up for.

Why is it a big deal from your perspective? One assumes if you are having your name removed from the records you do not believe the Church is true. Do you also wonder what Islam might have to say about your fate or Scientology? Quite frankly if the Church isn't true what it thinks may be your future fate for rejecting it is of no consequence, it is only of consequence if it is true. If you believe it is of consequence you might want to get your ducks in a row and decide things before you remove your name from the records.

Idle curiosity I can understand, and that may be what you mean and your usage of "big deal" is communicating something that isn't the case, but if you honestly think its a big deal religious wise you may want to spend some time in thought and prayer. Though if you are speaking in other senses other than religiously I can understand it being a big deal in that way. Depending on where you live and who your friends and family are, removing your name can be a big deal for cultural and relationship reasons that are completely independent of the Church being true or not.

P.S. An Ex-Mormon converting to a different Christian faith doesn't become Christian they already if they were Mormon, assuming they actually followed the tenets of their religion at some point, they just change what kind of Christian they are.

Edited by Dravin
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As an ex-Mormon, I'm trying to figure out exactly what view the LDS would deem my fate is in the afterlife, while I am a Christian? I don't subscribe to any organized religion, other than to call myself a Christian because I do believe Jesus Christ was God, and I do not believe in the BOM.

I'm getting all the ducks in a row before I send off my resignation letter, but this is one I can't find an answer to.

Thanks

Why in the world would a Eagle peck in the dirt with Chickens?

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You can look in the D&C and how it describes the inhabitants of the three kingdoms. You can know that we will be judged on our hearts and our level of spiritual knowledge. If one walks away from revealed truth and denies it out of vanity or pride or love of sin or some other reason, it would be logical to think that there would be consequences. Outer darkness is something else and you can look that up as well. Might be good to study hell and get a firm grasp of the LDS concept of it.

But at the end, I come back to my first answer. If truth is what you seek.....truth about doctrine and truth about yourself.....it is God that has those answers. He is the one who makes the final decisions about people and their lives and their hearts.

OK thanks... I thought it was written down somewhere.

And you know....I wanted to add that walking away from the church isn't your only answer. If you have concerns about the BofM or other things, there are answers and supports and guidance to help you figure things out over time. Being LDS isn't an all or nothing kind of deal.

It is an all or nothing thing for me and I appreciate you answering my questions.

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This is very interesting!! You are a "Christian" but imply the LDS Church is not. And, you believe in Christ, not the B of M, another testament of Christ. I wonder if you want to deny the truthfulness of and restoration of the gospel, the authority of the priesthood and the latter-day prophets?

Let me point out that Christians don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, nor that the BOM is another testament. If one believes that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, then they would be defined as "Mormon" by the actual definition.

If you really don't think any of this is true, why does it matter what the church states your eternal life would be? It’s not true, correct?? What's really the bottom line here?

You make a good point. The answers to my questions aren't so much for me, but for my family members.

The gospel, the organization of the church, the idea that an uneducated boy of 15 could translate something like the Book of Mormon? Or, do you just feel more comfortable in, or is it easier to be a part of an evangelical church that has no boundaries or is guilt-free? And, by denying the church you can enter into another religion in full membership?

The counter point to this proof is that Joseph Smith didn't write the BOM, but only claimed to and it was written by someone else. I don't belong to another organized religion, but I consider my beliefs Christian by definition, based on the doctrine I place that belief in.

Thanks for the reply.

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Depending on how you live both here and in the afterlife, you will have the opportunity to go either to the Telestial Kingdom, or the Terrestrial Kingdom, which are both kingdoms of glory. But if you reject Christ and His sacrifice for you, then things will be a bit different..........

Thanks. For the record, I do not reject Jesus Christ.

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Why is it a big deal from your perspective? One assumes if you are having your name removed from the records you do not believe the Church is true. Do you also wonder what Islam might have to say about your fate or Scientology? Quite frankly if the Church isn't true what it thinks may be your future fate for rejecting it is of no consequence, it is only of consequence if it is true. If you believe it is of consequence you might want to get your ducks in a row and decide things before you remove your name from the records.

It's a long story, but having my name removed is something I want to explain to family members who are devout LDS. If they think I'll be sent to hell for doing so, or not, I just wanted to know the LDS stance.

Idle curiosity I can understand, and that may be what you mean and your usage of "big deal" is communicating something that isn't the case, but if you honestly think its a big deal religious wise you may want to spend some time in thought and prayer. Though if you are speaking in other senses other than religiously I can understand it being a big deal in that way. Depending on where you live and who your friends and family are, removing your name can be a big deal for cultural and relationship reasons that are completely independent of the Church being true or not.

OK.

P.S. An Ex-Mormon converting to a different Christian faith doesn't become Christian they already if they were Mormon, assuming they actually followed the tenets of their religion at some point, they just change what kind of Christian they are.

I disagree. "Christians" believe that Joseph Smith was a false prophet of God, while "Mormons" believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and accept the Mormon doctrine of Joseph Smith. We're talking about the definition of the word "Christian" and what it encompasses vs. the definition of the word "Mormon" and what it encompasses, which is its doctrine.

Jews and Christians are separated by definition based on the doctrine they subscribe to. Claiming one is a Jew-Christian would be the same as claiming one is a Christian-Mormon. There is no denying the roots of Mormonism in Christianity, but stating "Christian" by itself would imply one does not put faith in Joseph Smith as a prophet of God. JMHO.

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Christianity does not exclude leaders. It's only requirement is a belief in Jesus Christ. Sure, we could say Lutherans aren't Christians because they believe in Martin Luther. Sorry, but "Christian" is not copyrighted, and as much as you want to hold to the title in exclusivity, you can't. I am perfectly content with the titles "Evangelical Christianity", "Liturgical Christianity", "Historic Christianity", 'Trinitarian Christianity" or "Creedal Christianity" but I do not accept anyone pushing someone outside the "Christian" tent because of disagreements in doctrine.

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Let me point out that Christians don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, nor that the BOM is another testament. If one believes that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, then they would be defined as "Mormon" by the actual definition.

Yes they do, as Mormons are Christians and they believe Joseph Smith is a prophet then there are Christians who believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. Now admittedly not all Christians, it is limited to a rather specific subset. You seem to be suggesting that because somebody who believes Joseph Smith was a prophet is Mormon they cannot also be Christian, this is much like saying because my car is a Tercel it cannot also be a Toyota.

Jews and Christians are separated by definition based on the doctrine they subscribe to.

Yes the belief in the divinity and teachings of Jesus Christ, this distinction does not exist between Catholics, Baptists, Anglicans or Mormons.

Main Entry: 1Chris·tian

Pronunciation: \ˈkris-chən, ˈkrish-\

Function: noun

Etymology: Latin christianus, adjective & noun, from Greek christianos, from Christos

Date: 1526

1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ b (1) : disciple 2 (2) : a member of one of the Churches of Christ separating from the Disciples of Christ in 1906 (3) : a member of the Christian denomination having part in the union of the United Church of Christ concluded in 1961

2 : the hero in Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress

Pay particular attention to 1 a, note the lack of any mention of a disbelief in Joseph Smith in the definition. We could use b 2 or b 3 or even 2 but that would exclude a lot of people generally considered Christians, if that is your definition I suppose Mormons don't fall under it but I'm guessing neither do you. Oh well, at least you aren't running the risk of using a new argument, the I'm the real Christian and you aren't game has some years behind it.

Edited by Dravin
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Hemidakota, in reference to your comment about eagles pecking the dirt with chickens, I just thought I'd let you know that I found that to be incredibly arrogant. I have yet to encounter an attitude quite like that in my time on this website, and it's frankly appalling. You're writing that while in the Christian Beliefs forum, so my assumption is that you're aware that people of other denominations will see it--a disturbing display of pride. Christians generally believe that they are representatives of Christ, whether Protestant, Evangelical, Charismatic...your illustration of us pecking around in the dirt is demeaning and rude. I don't see much of an eagle in that.

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Hemi's remarks was not arrogant at all. Thews admitted he is an ex Mormon. At one time he had the knowledge of the gospel and would mean that he took on the covenants of baptism into the Church. Hemi's remark was only in reference to what our beliefs are concerning that.

His remark in no way was referring to people of other denominations who have not been in the same situation as thews.

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He was referring to Thews who, while still a member of the church could be compared to an eagle--soaring above. Now that he has walked away from the church, he is "lowering himself" to the standards of the chickens (unenlightened, walking around in the darkness). I'm not sure if you noticed, but Thews felt mocked by the comment. Would you consider his comment to be kind?

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I'm getting all the ducks in a row before I send off my resignation letter, but this is one I can't find an answer to.

What "ducks" do you want to have in a row? Are you pulling together a coherent and thorough explanation of why you're leaving?

If so, I have a bit of advice based on my own experience and others who have left the Church. Right now, none of your family is going to be interested in why you left the Church. They're going to be in panic mode because they believe you are giving up all of the blessings the gospel gives you. All they're going to be thinking about is how to get you to come back.

I know it would be nice if your family would be open to listening to the reasons you're leaving, but realistically that's not something they can do right now. In fact, once they realize they're not going to change your mind, they are going to go into mourning for you, and IMO, the kindest thing you could do is let them.

It is extremely important to let them know you still love them as much as you ever did, and that you respect their beliefs. Eventually, after some time has passed, you can explain why you don't share them if you want.

If what I say describes your situation, my advice is to just send in your letter with no explanation, and explain to your family you have decided to leave, and will answer their questions, but that you won't defend your decision to them, at least not right now.

You have time to give them. Once they realize that you're serious about your decision, most of them will come to accept it, though they won't like it. But they get to not like it.

By the way, you are going to get a lot of "you're "choosing" to leave the Church. You've already read it here. Frankly, I have yet to find a way to explain my leaving is not a "choice." I can't make myself believe something I don't believe in. But I've come to understand, like I wrote above, their heartache is based on their love for me. I've learned to let this one go.

If I'm all wrong about this, just excuse an old tired lady and her ramblings.

Elphaba

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Yes they do, as Mormons are Christians and they believe Joseph Smith is a prophet then there are Christians who believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. Now admittedly not all Christians, it is limited to a rather specific subset. You seem to be suggesting that because somebody who believes Joseph Smith was a prophet is Mormon they cannot also be Christian, this is much like saying because my car is a Tercel it cannot also be a Toyota.

You can call yourself what you wish, but if you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, by definition it would make you a Mormon. Differences in doctrine are vast, and it's the doctrine that defines one's beliefs. I find that LDS members that choose to answer the question "Christian" when asked about their faith, are really trying to distance themselves from Joseph Smith. A "Mormon" believes Joseph Smith wasa prophet of God, accepts the Book of Mormon, BOA, POP etc., and all the sealings, and temple rituals that are exclusive to Mormonism. You could argue that because Catholics use rosary beads it would be the same thing (difference), but I would contend the doctrine is what defines "Christian" religions, as all "Christian" religions reject Joseph Smith as a prophet of God.

Yes the belief in the divinity and teachings of Jesus Christ, this distinction does not exist between Catholics, Baptists, Anglicans or Mormons.

Well, let's see what the Mormon prophets said of Christianity:

Quotes by LDS Leaders

"Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 10:230).

"Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:199);

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255).

"Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (President Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

[There is] "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (Joseph Fielding Smith , Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190).

"no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are" (Brigham Young , Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289).

Pay particular attention to 1 a, note the lack of any mention of a disbelief in Joseph Smith in the definition. We could use b 2 or b 3 or even 2 but that would exclude a lot of people generally considered Christians, if that is your definition I suppose Mormons don't fall under it but I'm guessing neither do you. Oh well, at least you aren't running the risk of using a new argument, the I'm the real Christian and you aren't game has some years behind it.

Why are Mormons ashamed to be called Mormons? Edited by Dravin
Links to anti-Mormon websites are not appropriate.
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What is your point by saying this? I have serious questions that I'd like an answer to. Is it your nature to mock?

One who can reached the pinnacle of mortality and earned membership in the house of the Creator, why would you turned it down to be with those who could careless of the greater reward? What choice is there when you can be soaring with the Godhead...when those less than this membership have no desire to be with the Creator in the end and only reached the Terrestrial Kingdom as stated by those who know?

[adding humor here] Choosing the other is no different than leaving the path that leads to the Tree of Life [see the Book of 1Nephi - Lehi's Vision of the Tree of Life] and crossing the river for ‘Club Med’.^_^

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What "ducks" do you want to have in a row? Are you pulling together a coherent and thorough explanation of why you're leaving?

If so, I have a bit of advice based on my own experience and others who have left the Church. Right now, none of your family is going to be interested in why you left the Church. They're going to be in panic mode because they believe you are giving up all of the blessings the gospel gives you. All they're going to be thinking about is how to get you to come back.

I know it would be nice if your family would be open to listening to the reasons you're leaving, but realistically that's not something they can do right now. In fact, once they realize they're not going to change your mind, they are going to go into mourning for you, and IMO, the kindest thing you could do is let them.

It is extremely important to let them know you still love them as much as you ever did, and that you respect their beliefs. Eventually, after some time has passed, you can explain why you don't share them if you want.

If what I say describes your situation, my advice is to just send in your letter with no explanation, and explain to your family you have decided to leave, and will answer their questions, but that you won't defend your decision to them, at least not right now.

You have time to give them. Once they realize that you're serious about your decision, most of them will come to accept it, though they won't like it. But they get to not like it.

By the way, you are going to get a lot of "you're "choosing" to leave the Church. You've already read it here. Frankly, I have yet to find a way to explain my leaving is not a "choice." I can't make myself believe something I don't believe in. But I've come to understand, like I wrote above, their heartache is based on their love for me. I've learned to let this one go.

If I'm all wrong about this, just excuse an old tired lady and her ramblings.

Elphaba

Thank you for this post. I have no doubt or reservations about this decision, but I was hoping there could be comfort found in telling them that while our beliefs differ, because I am a Christian and accept Jesus Christ I will not be damned, which is why I asked this question.

In the last conversation I had with my father, I had this letted penned and ready to send out. He advised me not to send it for fear of what it would cause within the family. My father was a ex-Mormon as well, but while he didn't asked me to never submit it, he advised me not to then. I see this as a statement to where I place my faith, and it's something I want to do. As near as I can tell by the quoted by BY in the previous post, I will be damned by the LDS version of God for rejecting Joseph Smith while being commited to Jesus Christ, mainly because there was a time I did accpt Joseph Smith as a prophet of God.

Thank you again for this most... it's been post helpful.

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