The LDS view of ex-Mormons who become Christian

[john doe]

Thews, nice dodge. I'm still waiting for your answers to my questions. Or is that a one-way street?

[thews]

Thews, nice dodge. I'm still waiting for your answers to my questions. Or is that a one-way street?

I'll answer whatever you wish, as your questions don't threaten me in the least. If you meanrt this one:

As a (soon to be former) LDS you honestly don't know? Tell us again, why are you leaving the church? Because you don't believe, or because you have no clue what we teach?

I already answered this many times, but I will again. I am not a soon-to-be member of the LDS church, as I've been inactive for a long time. The reason I asked the question, is because I want to take my name off the books of the LDS church, but fear it may have an adverse effect on my family. What I was looking for in an answer was a somewhat "official" (if you want to call it that) response so i can calm the fears of my family members regarding my place in the afterlife, as I am Christian.

To answer your question, yes I do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and no I don't know what you teach, which is why I asked the question.

[thews]

So you admit that Mormons ARE Christians?

Actually no, but I'm not allowed to voice that opinion.

I don't think anyone claimed they are the SAME. Are Catholics the same as Protestants? Are born agains the same as Baptists? But are they all fall under the heading Christian.

I'd love to answer you, but I can't, because it's outside the board rules.

Rather like, in my previous point, are all bears the same as dogs? Are cats related to mice? Yet they all fall under the definition of mammal, even if they aren't all the same, nor even eat the same food or have the same habitats.

I find answering questions with questions just leads away from the topic being discussed. If you want to open up the scope of what defines a word, then it depends on the question asked. Again I'd love to answer this, but I can't.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believes in and has faith in Christ.

I never claimed they didn't, but questions just who Jesus Christ was to each religion.

Please take the following comment in the spirit in which it is intended. Not angry. Maybe a bit teasing, a tad flabbergasted, but I'm striving for lovingly too (as I feel like I've gotten to know you the last several days, and hold no ire against you, but wish to treat you as a brother under God):

As for comparing dictionary definitions with a preference in ice cream... It seems obvious a dictionary definition is the correct one. When taking a test in high school, if you had an incorrect answer, did you take it to the teacher and say "Based on my opinion, this really is the correct answer"?

An opinion is one person's view of something. Using ice cream as an analogy, an opinion cannot be wrong, because it's just a matter of preference. An opinion based on factual information can be argued if the facts are in disagreement. Regarding definitions and how they differ, I can't state my opinion here. I do appreciate the respect you have shown me and I hope it's been recriprocated:).

[thews]

Honest questions? Sure, if you have any.

But if you think you've got some inalienable right to make nonsensical posts and have them go unrefuted or (in egregious cases) unmocked, you've got another thing coming.

And this:

is nonsensical as written. Egregiously so.

You are obviously attacking me for asking a question that threatens you. Can you please stop the attack and leave me alone? I just had a simple question.

[rameumptom]

Given you are still a Christian, you would not merit eternal hell. Given you have rejected what we believe to be the fulness of the gospel, you also will not receive the highest level of heaven.

So, depending on your faithfulness and righteousness, you would probably receive the Terrestrial or Telestial kingdom (see D&C 76 for a description of those going to each kingdom). Of course, this could also change if you were to change your lifestyle once again, either to fully embrace the restored gospel, or to totally reject Christ.

[john doe]

Given you are still a Christian, you would not merit eternal hell. Given you have rejected what we believe to be the fulness of the gospel, you also will not receive the highest level of heaven.

So, depending on your faithfulness and righteousness, you would probably receive the Terrestrial or Telestial kingdom (see D&C 76 for a description of those going to each kingdom). Of course, this could also change if you were to change your lifestyle once again, either to fully embrace the restored gospel, or to totally reject Christ.

That sounds like a regurgitation of this post: http://www.lds.net/forums/christian-beliefs-board/25764-lds-view-ex-mormons-who-become-christian.html#post419474

Funny how 70 posts have gone by since then and the fight continues.

[thews]

Given you are still a Christian, you would not merit eternal hell. Given you have rejected what we believe to be the fulness of the gospel, you also will not receive the highest level of heaven.

So, depending on your faithfulness and righteousness, you would probably receive the Terrestrial or Telestial kingdom (see D&C 76 for a description of those going to each kingdom). Of course, this could also change if you were to change your lifestyle once again, either to fully embrace the restored gospel, or to totally reject Christ.

Thank you. This is the answer I was looking for and it mirrors what someone else said. It will help me formulate a response to my family and I appreciate it.

[thews]

That sounds like a regurgitation of this post: http://www.lds.net/forums/christian-beliefs-board/25764-lds-view-ex-mormons-who-become-christian.html#post419474

Funny how 70 posts have gone by since then and the fight continues.

Who is the one fighting?

[john doe]

Who is the one fighting?

Uhhhhhhhh............... you?

[Just_A_Guy]

You are obviously attacking me for asking a question that threatens you. Can you please stop the attack and leave me alone? I just had a simple question.

Your question being, in response to my use of the term "holy flip", the following:

What does this mean? Is it a disgused was to curse using "holy"?

And, dagnabbit, you're right. It was indeed a disguised way to curse. And I am very, very threatened by that--so much so, that I deliberately dodged the question and engaged in the red-herring tactic of pointing out that you had made a bald-faced misrepresentation of another one of my posts, which observation I otherwise never would have made.

I am so ashamed of myself.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Just_A_Guy

[bytebear]

Since I never saw anyone address this, I thought I would comment.

Where I get confused is the part where BY says Joseph Smith is the one who decides who goes where in heaven, and not God or Jesus Christ. Again thanks for this.

Do you know who the Judges of Israel are? There are 144,000 of them, and they will assist Jesus in the judgment of man. I believe each group will judge their own dispensation, so you very well may be judged (in part) by Joseph Smith, and a few thousand other High Priests of Christ.

When you say "not by God or Jesus Christ," that is where you are mistaken. Jesus is the final judge, but he does not work alone.

[thews]

Jesus is the final judge, but he does not work alone.

Ok if that's what you believe, but I believe Jesus Christ is God and the only God, and Joseph Smith was a man and not a God, nor anything but a man. You guys can keep the pile on going if it suits you... I just asked a simple question.

[Elphaba]

Where I get confused is the part where BY says Joseph Smith is the one who decides who goes where in heaven, and not God or Jesus Christ.

I'm curious as to why you mentioned that to me.

Elphaba

[john doe]

I'll answer whatever you wish, as your questions don't threaten me in the least. If you meanrt this one:

I already answered this many times, but I will again. I am not a soon-to-be member of the LDS church, as I've been inactive for a long time. The reason I asked the question, is because I want to take my name off the books of the LDS church, but fear it may have an adverse effect on my family. What I was looking for in an answer was a somewhat "official" (if you want to call it that) response so i can calm the fears of my family members regarding my place in the afterlife, as I am Christian.

To answer your question, yes I do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and no I don't know what you teach, which is why I asked the question.

Yeah. I'm guessing that if you ever were a member of the LDS Church, and that's still a big if in my book, you were either a member in name only or almost never attended church. Because if you had even gone a few times and paid any attention at all, you would know the answers to your questions. As far as leaving the church, if your family knows you at all they can figure out pretty quickly how non-LDS you are. Your leaving the church, if you were ever a member, will not come as a surprise to anyone who knows what kind of person you are. They know just by talking to you that you left the fold long ago. They won't feel any different about you now than they felt 10, 15, 20 years ago.

[thews]

Yeah. I'm guessing that if you ever were a member of the LDS Church, and that's still a big if in my book, you were either a member in name only or almost never attended church. Because if you had even gone a few times and paid any attention at all, you would know the answers to your questions. As far as leaving the church, if your family knows you at all they can figure out pretty quickly how non-LDS you are. Your leaving the church, if you were ever a member, will not come as a surprise to anyone who knows what kind of person you are. They know just by talking to you that you left the fold long ago. They won't feel any different about you now than they felt 10, 15, 20 years ago.

You're being very judgmental. You can keep attacking me for asking LDS members a question I didn't know, which is sort of par for the course when it comes to asking Mormon questions IMO, but as a Mod here aren't you supposed to be sort of unbiased, or is it ok to attack if you feel it's warranted?

[thews]

I'm curious as to why you mentioned that to me.

Elphaba

You gave me an actual answer.

[Elphaba]

He is choosing. One may make the argument that no longer believing wasn't a choice (not going to debate that one), but divesting yourself of what you see as an organization that isn't true (or more harshly, an organization teaching untruths) is a choice (likewise staying is a choice). Seen in that light not only is it a choice (leaving) its a logical and down right reasonable one, of course not everyone sees the Church that way.

Details, details.

Elph

[Generally_Me]

Thews, can I give you a suggestion?

Ask a Mormon - Questions to ask Mormons

[john doe]

You're being very judgmental. You can keep attacking me for asking LDS members a question I didn't know, which is sort of par for the course when it comes to asking Mormon questions IMO, but as a Mod here aren't you supposed to be sort of unbiased, or is it ok to attack if you feel it's warranted?

No, I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out the flaws in your assertions. You claim to be an inactive LDS who is leaving the LDS Church. Yet you are the one who has no clue what LDS believe. Why not stick around the LDS and find out what we believe before leaving? Have you even read the Book of Mormon? Have you prayed about it? You seem to have a pretty good grasp on what Evangelicals believe, why not find out what the religion you claim to belong to believes? If you are LDS, why not give your own religion a try before moving on to another one?

And no, as a mod I am not required to be unbiased, but we do try to be even-handed and fair. I'm fairly certain you have misrepresented yourself here, because you show no signs of being who and what you claim.

[Dravin]

Details, details.

Elph

Pesky things aren't they?

[thews]

No, I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out the flaws in your assertions. You claim to be an inactive LDS who is leaving the LDS Church. Yet you are the one who has no clue what LDS believe.

I beg to differ. I believe I know a lot more about LDS history than you do.

Why not stick around the LDS and find out what we believe before leaving? Have you even read the Book of Mormon? Have you prayed about it? You seem to have a pretty good grasp on what Evangelicals believe, why not find out what the religion you claim to belong to believes? If you are LDS, why not give your own religion a try before moving on to another one?

Because I know what I know, and I can't pretend I don't.

And no, as a mod I am not required to be unbiased, but we do try to be even-handed and fair. I'm fairly certain you have misrepresented yourself here, because you show no signs of being who and what you claim.

Really? Who do I claim to be? I know people on this board that have crossed paths with me before, so I really don't get this claim that I'm pretending to be anything I'm not. This question is a perfect example... I just wanted to know what the LDS believe so I can better understand you. I apologize if I've offended any of you ...it was not my intent, nor was it to be deceptive.

[john doe]

I beg to differ. I believe I know a lot more about LDS history than you do.

Excuse me? Really? Because you started this thread acting all naive about LDS beliefs. Now you're an expert on LDS history? Why do I smell a troll?

Because I know what I know, and I can't pretend I don't.

I have a feeling you've been pretending for a while now, why not keep the charade going? Is it coming unraveled?

Really? Who do I claim to be? I know people on this board that have crossed paths with me before, so I really don't get this claim that I'm pretending to be anything I'm not. This question is a perfect example... I just wanted to know what the LDS believe so I can better understand you. I apologize if I've offended any of you ...it was not my intent, nor was it to be deceptive.

Again, you started this thread claiming to be an inactive LDS wanting to leave the faith, wondering what your relatives would think of you for leaving. You received your answer at least by post #9, then you started going off about Christians and how LDS are not Christian. Now you claim to know more about LDS history than an active member who has been around for a couple years? But you still don't know anything about our beliefs? How does someone who knows more LDS history than longtime active members not know anything about LDS beliefs? Please explain. Or are you admitting that your OP was a ruse and you were seeking certain answers to begin contending with members? Sure seems deceptive to me.

[thews]

Thews, can I give you a suggestion?

Ask a Mormon - Questions to ask Mormons

Thanks for this... I'll try it out.

[thews]

Excuse me? Really? Because you started this thread acting all naive about LDS beliefs. Now you're an expert on LDS history? Why do I smell a troll?

How can I be a troll when I've said I am a Christian looking to have my name removed from the LDS books? My objective was to get your combined LDS perspective in doing this and what to tell my family... that was the objective. Paint the picture you wish if you want, but I didn't misrepresent who I am of what I believe. By the way, I do know a lot about LDS history and have researched it extensively.

I have a feeling you've been pretending for a while now, why not keep the charade going? Is it coming unraveled?

Pretending to be what? I'm a non-LDS Christian in the "Non-LDS Christian" section asking a question. Saying the same thing a 100 times to force what you want isn't going to make it come true.

Again, you started this thread claiming to be an inactive LDS wanting to leave the faith, wondering what your relatives would think of you for leaving. You received your answer at least by post #9, then you started going off about Christians and how LDS are not Christian. Now you claim to know more about LDS history than an active member who has been around for a couple years? But you still don't know anything about our beliefs? How does someone who knows more LDS history than longtime active members not know anything about LDS beliefs? Please explain. Or are you admitting that your OP was a ruse and you were seeking certain answers to begin contending with members? Sure seems deceptive to me.

Again you claim the same tired untrue argument. I didn't know what LDS thinks of people that leave and become Christian. According the BY, I am doomed. I asked a valid question which led to LDS members telling me it qwas ok because Mormonism and Christianity are the same thing. I disagreed without knowing I couldn't have that opinion in here. Nothing is a ruse OK... I am not a Mormon, and have not pretended to be a Mormon. I am a Christian that has some questions regarding Mormonism... period.

[john doe]

'I am a Christian looking to have my name removed from the LDS books.' 'I'm a non-LDS Christian in the "Non-LDS Christian" section asking a question.' 'I am not a Mormon, and have not pretended to be a Mormon. I am a Christian that has some questions regarding Mormonism... period.' 'I'm getting all the ducks in a row before I send off my resignation letter, but this is one I can't find an answer to.' 'It's a long story, but having my name removed is something I want to explain to family members who are devout LDS. If they think I'll be sent to hell for doing so, or not, I just wanted to know the LDS stance.' 'My father was a ex-Mormon as well' 'I already answered this many times, but I will again. I am not a soon-to-be member of the LDS church, as I've been inactive for a long time.'

And this is where you contradict yourself again, in the same thread. Here's the question: if you're a non-LDS Christian, what book would you like the LDS to remove you from? We don't baptize non-LDS people until they're dead, so you wouldn't be 'on the books'. And if your family can't figure out by now from your words and actions that you are not LDS, then they must be as dense as you seem to be. Your words tell us who you are, and you sir, are not who you pretend to be.