interalia

Satan is messing with me - using the church

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Last Sunday was my first time back to church in 9 weeks. Previous to that I don't think I ever went even 3 weeks in a row without going - more often than anything, I was always there. Unfortunately my new job requires that I work Sundays. It is driving me nuts - I've been deprived serious time with my wife since she works mornings and I work nights, and I cannot go to either of the 3 services at my local ward building due to the schedule. I finally convinced my boss to give me a Sunday off and was so excited about going back to church.

I went to church only to get triple whammied by stuff that bothers me insanely about church - and trust me, this stuff doesn't happen often, so the fact it happened thrice in one meeting was totally unexpected.

I was in sacrament and a return missionary was speaking. He decided to reinterpret the story of Nephi going to retrieve the plates in terms of how young single adults should conduct themselves. All well and good, except his interpretations of such very clear scriptures were so out of harmony with what they actually said, he basically was teaching false doctrine. Without going into all of the details, and just for example, he explained that the reason why Zoram joined Nephi in returning to the wilderness was because Zoram had been converted to the Gospel by Nephi's teaching while they were walking back to meet his "brethren".

Why does this stuff bother me? I saw this type of stuff all the TIME in mainstream Christianity - dramatic reinterpretations of scriptures to suit some well-meaning goal or to sugar coat what they actually say. I'm not used to it happening in my church since I became LDS and it is something I've always valued about the LDS and their overall resistance to doing this type of thing.

Well I shrugged it off and went to Gospel Doctrine. There the instructor told us he would not be using the Gospel Doctrine manual at all, that the manuals of the church (such as the Teachings of Jospeh Smith used in priesthood and Relief Society) were only for the teachers to read and interpret so they could teach the proper lesson conveyed in the manuals from the scriptures alone. I was like... oooookay... but I went along with it - I mean it couldn't be too bad being taught exclusively from the scriptures...

Well not 10 minutes into his lesson does he use the quote, and I briefly paraphrase, "learning about behavior does less to change behavior than learning good Gospel principles." He took that to mean and told the class, that their time would be better spent in the scriptures than with psychologists - the implications of which are quite scary for people with real psychological issues. I was floored. I wanted to raise my hand in utter disagreement, but just then an escape arrived.

A woman interrupted the class to ask if any men would be willing to help in primary. I eagerly jumped up and went with her to help.

Here comes whammy three. I was walking with her in the hall and she said, "You'll be joining another man in the 9 year old class. There must be two men in a class to teach primary." I thought for a moment and asked the question I knew I'd hate the answer to but knew I'd stew about if I let it go unasked. I asked, "Do there need to be two women to teach a primary class?" She responded, "No, you only need one." I didn't say anything. Gender stuff always gets to me generally - it is my number one struggle with the church - something I've been working on in prayer and with my church authorities for some time.

I did my best to make the best of church that day - all in all I'm glad I went. I really missed it. I was however keenly aware that some strange stuff did happen. Now this IS a new ward and I'm not used to the people yet, so that could explain a fair bit of my missed expectations - but it was so strange finally going back and being bombarded with stuff that can make me pull my hair out.

I hope I get to go back soon!

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Try looking at these three examples differently.

First, I wouldn't say the kid got it wrong. I would say rather that it was a great try at understanding what happened. RM's don't come home with perfect doctrinal understanding. They come home with IMPROVED doctrinal understanding. You saw perhaps where he was in his scriptural understanding. It's ok that that he perhaps didn't know as much as a BYU religion professor. He simply shared from where he was in his process that day. And its all good because if the meeting is working for people like it should, the spirit teaches truth vs error to the listener. Take away what is meaningful for you, and leave the rest.

Second, the quote about behavior is a popular one. I have it in my scriptures and I find it to be true. I don't think the quote itself or the intent of the teacher was to discuss psychological disorders. The quote speaks to human behaviors....natural man behaviors such as selfishness and other such stuff. The quote speaks to the power of Christ/gospel to change to human disposition to something more like Christ and how studying the gospel can help one master self over the behavioral science of the day. This does not mean the study of it doesn't have value. The quote is simply a testimony and an invitation for where to put ones priorities.

And third, it is my understanding that all primary classes must have two people in them and they are calling more married couples to teach classes to meet the mandate. I have been asked to accompany female teachers and I am a female. I don't think the focus is a sexist one though I would guess people assume males are more prone to sex offend than women, but that is beside the point. I think they are trying to do in primary what is mandated in scouts.....that there always be two leaders present. If your personal primary leader didn't understand it completely, forgive her. There are many of us that are doing the best we can and many who don't understand everything absolutely correctly every time.

Everyone serving in the church has some kind of deficit in their abilities or understanding etc. We gotta let that be. The weak things of the world teach and serve the other weak things of the world and we learn to love each other inspite of our deficits.

And none of these examples, imo, should effect your reasons for going to church and what you are there to do, even though they feel wrong and annoying to all of us some days. Sometimes I think the test is not in the crapo stuff that happens, but in our judgment of it.

PS. Satan always uses the church or truth or anything he can against us. ;)

Edited by Misshalfway

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there are frequently things at church that get to me. maybe not much help but this is how i deal with it. first i let myself feel what i need to feel, you are entitled to your feelings of anger, hurt, shock, whatever. go home vent and let it out. then i remind myself of the true doctrines and try to assume they missed the mark somewhere. if it's a very serious issue then i will calm myself and call and discuss it with the appropriate leaders (branch pres or whoever). then i get over it, and move on. usually by joking and laughing about it with someone... tends to help if it's the same person i vented to. lol maybe not the best way but that's how i cope with it.

good luck getting through this, i know how hard it can be having your testimony challenged from the very place that should be your shelter from the storms of life.

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Policy is that no man should be in a class room with children alone. Two men or a husband and wife teaching Primary classes.

We do the same in Scouting. No man is to be alone with a boy. Two deep leadership in Scouting.

Any time we go on an outing now we prefer four adults. If someone gets sick or injured two men can take one boy back instead of all boys having to go back with the two leaders.

Ben Raines

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Guest Alana

Hang in there. Remember that all these things that irked you are mundane and mortal problems. Satan is wily, that's for sure! There is nothing like the peace that comes from knowing we are following Heavenly Father, no matter what stuff is going on around us.

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Policy is that no man should be in a class room with children alone. Two men or a husband and wife teaching Primary classes.

We do the same in Scouting. No man is to be alone with a boy. Two deep leadership in Scouting.

Any time we go on an outing now we prefer four adults. If someone gets sick or injured two men can take one boy back instead of all boys having to go back with the two leaders.

Ben Raines

Same policy for a woman. This is not gender biased.

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i think some units apply it in a gender biased way. but as i understood it the rule was to be across the board. another option for areas that don't have enough adults to do this was to always leave the door open. i taught youth ss with the door open.

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The two teachers/leaders is not just for the protection of the children. It is also for the protection of the teacher/leader. One false accusation or misunderstanding can ruin a person's life. It's happened before unfortunately.

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Last Sunday was my first time back to church in 9 weeks. Previous to that I don't think I ever went even 3 weeks in a row without going - more often than anything, I was always there. Unfortunately my new job requires that I work Sundays. It is driving me nuts - I've been deprived serious time with my wife since she works mornings and I work nights, and I cannot go to either of the 3 services at my local ward building due to the schedule. I finally convinced my boss to give me a Sunday off and was so excited about going back to church.

I went to church only to get triple whammied by stuff that bothers me insanely about church - and trust me, this stuff doesn't happen often, so the fact it happened thrice in one meeting was totally unexpected.

I was in sacrament and a return missionary was speaking. He decided to reinterpret the story of Nephi going to retrieve the plates in terms of how young single adults should conduct themselves. All well and good, except his interpretations of such very clear scriptures were so out of harmony with what they actually said, he basically was teaching false doctrine. Without going into all of the details, and just for example, he explained that the reason why Zoram joined Nephi in returning to the wilderness was because Zoram had been converted to the Gospel by Nephi's teaching while they were walking back to meet his "brethren".

Why does this stuff bother me? I saw this type of stuff all the TIME in mainstream Christianity - dramatic reinterpretations of scriptures to suit some well-meaning goal or to sugar coat what they actually say. I'm not used to it happening in my church since I became LDS and it is something I've always valued about the LDS and their overall resistance to doing this type of thing.

Well I shrugged it off and went to Gospel Doctrine. There the instructor told us he would not be using the Gospel Doctrine manual at all, that the manuals of the church (such as the Teachings of Jospeh Smith used in priesthood and Relief Society) were only for the teachers to read and interpret so they could teach the proper lesson conveyed in the manuals from the scriptures alone. I was like... oooookay... but I went along with it - I mean it couldn't be too bad being taught exclusively from the scriptures...

Well not 10 minutes into his lesson does he use the quote, and I briefly paraphrase, "learning about behavior does less to change behavior than learning good Gospel principles." He took that to mean and told the class, that their time would be better spent in the scriptures than with psychologists - the implications of which are quite scary for people with real psychological issues. I was floored. I wanted to raise my hand in utter disagreement, but just then an escape arrived.

A woman interrupted the class to ask if any men would be willing to help in primary. I eagerly jumped up and went with her to help.

Here comes whammy three. I was walking with her in the hall and she said, "You'll be joining another man in the 9 year old class. There must be two men in a class to teach primary." I thought for a moment and asked the question I knew I'd hate the answer to but knew I'd stew about if I let it go unasked. I asked, "Do there need to be two women to teach a primary class?" She responded, "No, you only need one." I didn't say anything. Gender stuff always gets to me generally - it is my number one struggle with the church - something I've been working on in prayer and with my church authorities for some time.

I did my best to make the best of church that day - all in all I'm glad I went. I really missed it. I was however keenly aware that some strange stuff did happen. Now this IS a new ward and I'm not used to the people yet, so that could explain a fair bit of my missed expectations - but it was so strange finally going back and being bombarded with stuff that can make me pull my hair out.

I hope I get to go back soon!

Glad to see you held your peace.

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Policy is that no man should be in a class room with children alone. Two men or a husband and wife teaching Primary classes.

We do the same in Scouting. No man is to be alone with a boy. Two deep leadership in Scouting.

Any time we go on an outing now we prefer four adults. If someone gets sick or injured two men can take one boy back instead of all boys having to go back with the two leaders.

Ben Raines

Right. I used to be a Scout leader too and that was one of the first things I learned. The thing is, it's not that people really think one of the brethren represents a threat to the kids, it's just that sometimes you have to be careful of appearances. Sure, there will occasionally be a genuine need for there to be both, but it's always more comfortable that way. We live in a society that's trained us to be paranoid with the kids, and as much as it can be a problem, it can't be ignored either.

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Policy is that no man should be in a class room with children alone. Two men or a husband and wife teaching Primary classes.

We do the same in Scouting. No man is to be alone with a boy. Two deep leadership in Scouting.

Any time we go on an outing now we prefer four adults. If someone gets sick or injured two men can take one boy back instead of all boys having to go back with the two leaders.

Ben Raines

When I was a scout leader, I couldn't be alone with the boys either. I had to have my co den leader with me at all times. I was also told that had my DH and I held the calling together that we couldn't have the den meetings in our homes.

I don't see the policy in primary as any different. When I have substituted lately, I am always asked to get someone else to cover the class with me, whether it is my H or someone else.

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Lol I was just browsing through the active users online and saw that someone was looking at that thread. The title intrigued me so I had a look. I'm really surprised to see how many guest users there are on this site!

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8 hours ago, askandanswer said:

Lol I was just browsing through the active users online and saw that someone was looking at that thread. The title intrigued me so I had a look. I'm really surprised to see how many guest users there are on this site!

If it's a guest user it means they asked for their account to be deleted.

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