Do truely good people exist?

[Snow]

My bad.

Well, I know that's a lot more words than: if you're repenting your good, if you're not, your bad.

But I wish they would use a lot more words to explain it the way you did.

Elphaba

Nibley said that in an address at a funeral of one of his and my dad's friends. He also said something similar at my father's funeral so I've heard the fuller presentation.

What the posters didn't write that applies here: "The gospel of repentance is a constant reminder that the most righteous are still being tested and may yet fall, and that the most wicked are not yet beyond redemption and may still be saved." (Nibley - The Prophetic Book of Mormon). It's a hopeful thought.

[WillowTheWhisp]

There are no 'bad people'and there are no 'good people'. There are people. Some just do more bad things than others, some do more good.

[JohnnyRudick]

There are no 'bad people'and there are no 'good people'. There are people. Some just do more bad things than others, some do more good.

I hate to be a parade rainer here but. . .

Please give Scripture verses for the above assumption other then the opinions of GA.

Don't get me wrong here.

I love the opinions of the GA as much as most but when they contradict the spirit of the Scriptures I try to give the Scripture the last word.

I believe they are right if we take the statements for men in general.

Most people you meet on the street are not "bad" people.

But there are those who have been "saved" by another father and they are downright dangerous.

I will most likely confuse some here as I can't think as clear now as I use-to-could but I struggle along and please try to struggle along with me:rolleyes:

They (the bad people) are found down in the alleys and up in high places.

Not all of them, yet some of them have given themselves over to another spirit.

Do not be fooled.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the

children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not

of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Alma 5:39 And now if ye are not the sheep of the good shepherd,

of what fold are ye? Behold, I say unto you, that the devil is

your shepherd, and ye are of his fold; and now, who can deny

this? Behold, I say unto you, whosoever denieth this is a liar

and a child of the devil.

Alma 5:41 Therefore, if a man bringeth forth good works he

hearkeneth unto the voice of the good shepherd, and he doth

follow him; but whosoever bringeth forth evil works, the same

becometh a child of the devil, for he hearkeneth unto his voice,

and doth follow him.

Alma 5:42 And whosoever doeth this must receive his wages of him;

therefore, for his wages he receiveth death, as to things

pertaining unto righteousness, being dead unto all good works.

Acts 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the

Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.

Acts 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief,

thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt

thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

Acts 13:11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee,

and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And

immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went

about seeking some to lead him by the hand.

1 Nephi 14:3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them

by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the

devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men

down to hell--yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the

destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto

their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the

destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that

hell which hath no end.

1 Nephi 14:4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of

the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all

those who will work wickedness and abomination before him.

Not everyone is "saved" by the same father.

Luke 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that

he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

Scripture like these take on deeper meaning when we understand that we are not only speaking of false Christs among men.

Matthew 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is He?

They say unto him, The son of David.

Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest

answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that

thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Peter knew who which Christ Jesus was.

Luke 9:20 He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter

answering said, The Christ of God.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were

great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are

become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and he shall

reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now

is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and

the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast

down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Speaking to the Jewish leaders not the Jewish people;

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye

cannot hear my word.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of

your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and

abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he

speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the

father of it.

Some have just given themselves over to another father.

We have nothing to give them for they think they already have it all.

Many listen quietly and when we are done they say,

"Oh that is all very nice but I already have all that and more."

Then they can take your head and think they are doing God service.

Ezekiel 8:6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou

what they do? even the great abominations that the house of

Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my

sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater

abominations.

Ezekiel 8:7 And he brought me to the door of the court; and

when I looked, behold a hole in the wall.

Ezekiel 8:8 Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the

wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.

Ezekiel 8:9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked

abominations that they do here.

Ezekiel 8:10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of

creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the

house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.

Ezekiel 8:11 And there stood before them seventy men of the

ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood

Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his

hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.

Ezekiel 8:12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen

what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every

man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the LORD seeth

us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.

Ezekiel 8:13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and

thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.

Ezekiel 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the

LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat

women weeping for Tammuz.

Ezekiel 8:15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son

of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater

abominations than these.

Ezekiel 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the

LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD,

between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men,

with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces

toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

Ezekiel 8:17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son

of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they

commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have

filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to

anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.

Ezekiel 8:18 Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall

not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine

ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

Ezekiel 9:1 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice,

saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near,

even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

Ezekiel 9:2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the

higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a

slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed

with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went

in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

Ezekiel 9:3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from

the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And

he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's

inkhorn by his side;

Ezekiel 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of

the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the

foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the

abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

Ezekiel 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye

after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare,

neither have ye pity:

Ezekiel 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little

children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the

mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient

men which were before the house.

Ezekiel 9:7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill

the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and

slew in the city.

Ezekiel 9:8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them,

and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah

Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy

pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

Ezekiel 9:9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of

Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of

blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD

hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not.

Ezekiel 9:10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare,

neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon

their head.

There are children of the devil in the alleys

And there are children of the devil in high places.

Neither of them like us very much and in the future, for a short time, they might have power over us.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and

judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that

were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,

and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,

neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their

hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

It could happen for there are evil men.

Job 35:12 There they cry, but none giveth answer, because of

the pride of evil men.

Bro. Rudick

[Islander]

There are no 'bad people'and there are no 'good people'. There are people. Some just do more bad things than others, some do more good.

I can appreciate your philosophical point, but there are indeed evil people in this world. The OP refers to that and Rudick above elaborated quite eloquently about it.

[Gatsby]

Are there people in here or in the world that are good all the way through and that put other people first and care about people and are just nice?

Does everyone have a bad side though?

Do you know anyone who is a totally good person or really near to it?

[Connie]

Yes, Vort!

[Vort]

Connie rocks. (Let's form a mutual admiration club, Connie!)

[Connie]

Sounds good to me. Do we get t-shirts?

Sorry, Gatsby, for hijacking your thread. I so totally could not resist.

Back to topic.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Connie

[Vort]

To answer the OP, I think there are indeed truly good people in the world. I'm not sure I accept your definition of that, though. Everyone struggles against the natural man. Even the Savior did so (albeit perfectly). I don't think anyone else resists the pull of the flesh perfectly, but in my estimation that does not make them bad (or non-good) people. It does make them spiritually lost, unable on their own to return to God. But that is an impossible standard, one I reject because it necessarily means exactly what you ask -- that there are no truly good people around us -- and I have no desire to go through my life despising humanity. Christ's atonement has made such immediate perfection unnecessary and such eventual perfection assured, so it's a moot point anyway.

[Vort]

Sounds good to me. Do we get t-shirts?

Sorry, Gatsby, for hijacking your thread. I so totally could not help myself.

Back to topic.

You betcha! I'll wear mine WET!!!

At least, until my kids start pointing at me and laughing...

...and my wife gently says, "Vortie, honey, you've been drooling again. Here, let me help you change that T-shirt."

[beefche]

Are there people in here or in the world that are good all the way through and that put other people first and care about people and are just nice?

Does everyone have a bad side though?

Do you know anyone who is a totally good person or really near to it?

Yes there are people like that. Yes, everyone has a bad side. Yes, i know people who are good.

I agree with Vort that no one was perfectly good, except Jesus. I'm a pretty optimistic person and so I see good in almost everyone I come in contact with. I try to be a good person and think of others. I can't say I put them first, because I'm selfish, but I do try to think of others and serve them.

We are all plagued with weaknesses and sins. But I think each person has the potential to be good.

[candyprpl]

Call me a daddy's girl -- but my father was as good as they get! He always put my mother first and he truly did it unselfishly. His purpose in life was to be a good man and others saw that in him as well. My son (now 35yrs. old) has always told me how much he looked up to his granddaddy as being a good example of what a man should be like. Did he have faults, sure, but the fact that he was always striving to be a honest, hard-working, kind and loving person made him as close to perfect as I think any human can get.

[pam]

I have merged these. The OP has just reworded the question but a lot of the responses will be the same. One thread being good people the other being bad.

[Gatsby]

There were new responses to the other thread. I should of read them. I had an interesting discussion with non members on the subject.

Again, i wanted to know how members felt regarding it.

Their responses:

Most of the nice people I've met are very quiet. Of course, such a person might also be a serial killer. It's an unfortunate reality that selfish, aggressive, loud people tend to get what they want in life.

It's a mistake to assume that someone is nice just because they act outgoing and friendly, or to assume someone isn't because they don't act that way.

Some will say that good and evil don't really exist, but I find these people rarely have any experience with the darker side of the world. Real evil definitely exists in this world, if you doubt that you're just denying reality.

No. Neither do truly bad people.

'Good' and 'bad' are abstract concepts which describe the two end of a continuum. They are words we use to describe something and do not necessarily exist in a pure form.

Humans are too complex to be described as simply 'good' or 'bad'. Everyone will do what they think is best in any given situation and everyone has their reasons for doing the things they do.

Even if someone was 'truly good', how would you know? they may do something which appears bad but was actually done with the best intentions and someone who appears to be truly good could be acting out of selfish reasons eg doing something nice so that someone will give them something in return.

There are virtually NO truly good people they simply don't exist people that always want to do good for others even when bad for themselves not many lol

A truly good person could forgive another for anything if that person was sorry for it. Do you even think the majority of people can do that ....No

The only people that don't have a more selfish side or darker side are probably those with mental retardation.

People be realistic look at humans seriously look at them and history what do you see.

Don't get me wrong there are 'good' people just no 'truly' good people

Good people can do rotten things and rotten people can do good things.

It sure seems that we meet up with the rotten ones quicker than the good ones! I guess the important thing is to learn something from rotten and good people. If we do that, we might not get burned again by someone rotten, and we might appreciate the good ones we were fortunate enough to have met. It lets me know there are still some good people in this world besides myself.

Yes, and I have known quite a few.

Perhaps I've been luckier than most. They are my inspiration - to make the world a better place for those around us.

I suppose we all have a bad side - no one is perfect. But we can strive to overcome.

Yes! Think of all the people who dedicate themselves to charity work or those who risk their lives to save another person.

The majority of people are good!

Of course good people exist. Just because we sometimes do bad things, doesn't mean we're not good...it just means we're human and we mess up.

Yes, people like that do exist, but they are extremely rare.

Good people do exist.....but they don't last very long....

[Gatsby]

This article is bananas!

Does Evil Exist?

Written by Chuck Gallozzi

f we blame God for evil, shall we blame the sun for darkness?

For the last 5,000 years, the problem of evil has been discussed in spiritual literature. Throughout the ages man has asked how can an all-loving God and evil coexist. Why do innocent people drown in floods, die of starvation, perish in accidents, and die of illness? Why are blameless people raped, murdered, and crippled? The problem has troubled many, including Rabbi Harold S. Kushner and Charles Templeton. When Rabbi Harold S. Kushner's son died of Progeria (also known as the Hutchinson-Gilford Syndrome or the "aging disease"), he changed his opinion of God, now believing Him to be more limited in power.

During the 50's, the two major North American evangelists were Charles Templeton and Billy Graham. It seemed the Canadian, Templeton, was destined to surpass Billy Graham, but in 1954 troubled by doubts in the existence of a loving God, he resigned the ministry. If it is difficult for philosophers and religious leaders to reconcile good and evil, it must be even more so for us. No wonder church attendance is down and growing numbers of us are looking elsewhere for answers.

Not everyone agrees there is a problem, however. Many Christians argue that God so loves man that he has given him a free will. And it is man's abuse of free will that is the source of evil, not God. Here's how the brilliant C.S. Lewis expressed the argument: "Free will, though it makes evil possible, is the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." Admittedly that's a good argument for the case against moral evil, but it doesn't explain natural disasters, accidents, and illnesses. What difference does it make if someone's child is killed by a murderer, tornado, accident, or cancer? Isn't the result the same (death)? Isn't the parents' pain the same? If murder is evil, why isn't cancer?

Before we ask WHY evil exists, shouldn't we ask WHETHER it exists? It may seem like a strange question, but, frankly, I'm not so sure it exists. Perhaps it's a matter of perception. Could it be we find what we look for? Or is it a matter of distorted perspective? For example, if I were to show the word "LIVE" to someone with dyslexia, they may see "EVIL" (LIVE spelled backwards). Is that what it boils down to, finding evil where there is none? Let me illustrate my point with a few examples.

Holding on to Tommy's hand, Sandra was leading her five-year-old son through the mall. Tommy stopped in front of Dairy Queen and said, "Mommy, I want ice-cream!" "No, Tommy," Sandra replied, "it isn't good for you, but let's get some nice, cold orange juice instead." "No! I don't want orange juice; I want ice-cream." he shouted. As Sandra gently tugged Tommy away, he could be heard yelling, "I hate you, mommy; I hate you!" Did Tommy misperceive reality? Did he misinterpret his mother's loving intention as evil? If so, he can be excused; after all, he is only five.

Cathy was disturbed by her 15-year-old daughter's announcement that she planned to go steady with Eddy. Cathy forcefully explained, "I won't allow it, Cindy! Eddy is a dropout and a pothead that already got three teenagers pregnant. You deserve something much better than that. Besides, I want you to concentrate on schoolwork now. You're too young to be going steady with anyone." Cindy ran to her room crying, slammed the door shut, and screamed, "I hate you!" Is this another case of misperception, seeing evil where there is, in fact, love?

What about you and me? Do we behave any differently? When our Creator gives us a challenge so we may grow stronger, do we thank Him for the opportunity, or do we complain about evil? What about the recent accident that took the lives of John F. Kennedy, Jr., his wife, Carolyn Bessette, and his sister-in-law, Lauren Bessette. It is always tragic to see people full of potential die prematurely. However, because of this accident and its publicity, tens of thousands of pilots may now exercise greater caution by refusing to fly when it gets dark, unless they are qualified to do so with instruments. In other words, the tragic deaths of J.F.K., Jr. and his companions may result in saving the lives of thousands. If so, can this accident be called evil?

The paralysis of movie superstar, Christopher Reeves, is another example. He confesses that he never thought about the plight of wheelchair bound people before. However, as a result of his accident, he has set up a foundation to help find a cure for spinal cord injuries. Much more research is now being done in this area because of his efforts. From this vantage point, can we label his tragic accident as evil?

But what about mass murders, vicious dictators, and hired killers? Aren't they evil people? I don't know. Are they evil or misguided? As Mary Wollstonecraft wrote, "No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness." I have never seen an evil infant. They are all loving, happy, and free of prejudice. For a short while they are all equal, but when they leave the hospital, each child is molded by a different set of circumstances. Different neighborhood. Different education. Different parents, peers, and pressures.

Yes, we have free will and can make choices, but early on our choices are limited by our circumstances and understanding. How can we make the right choices and reach our potential without guidance? Have you reached your full potential, or have you stumbled along the way because of poor choices? If you, who are blessed, have made mistakes, how many more mistakes must be made by the unfortunate. Are there evil people? I don't know, but if I must choose, I choose to believe in a positive world, a world free of evil. I'm not denying the existence of pain, suffering, and sorrow, but merely doubting that they are evil. Perhaps, the only thing worse than evil is the inability to bear it.

Does Evil Exist?

[Gatsby]

I honestly don't believe "bad" people exist (& I have had the misfortune of meeting a gent who fits the characteristics of a sociopath. I think he's an opportunist and my former employer who is perhaps one of the most greediest persons I ever met. ) or pure 100% good people exist because we all make mistakes and are indeed very human.

I'm in school right now majoring in psychology. It's going to be interesting. :)

[LDSpunkrocker]

There are no bad people, only bad choices.

-a-train

i think there comes a time that the bad choices make someone a bad person, Allister Crowley & Adolf Hitler come to mind. (sorry if this has already been said didnt read whole thread yet )

[LDSpunkrocker]

I honestly don't believe "bad" people exist (& I have had the misfortune of meeting a gent who fits the characteristics of a sociopath. I think he's an opportunist and my former employer who is perhaps one of the most greediest persons I ever met. ) or pure 100% good people exist because we all make mistakes and are indeed very human.

I'm in school right now majoring in psychology. It's going to be interesting. :)

a pedophile and child killer would be a bad person in my book. evil people exist.

[Islander]

I honestly don't believe "bad" people exist (& I have had the misfortune of meeting a gent who fits the characteristics of a sociopath. I think he's an opportunist and my former employer who is perhaps one of the most greediest persons I ever met. ) or pure 100% good people exist because we all make mistakes and are indeed very human.

I'm in school right now majoring in psychology. It's going to be interesting. :)

The assertion above reflects your age. You have not lived long enough to speak on the subject authoritatively. By making such a statement you also demonstrate your lack of awareness with what goes on in the world, and you attempt to push out of awareness the unimaginable cruelty and evil being dispensed wholesale in the world right now.

There are plenty of evil doers around. You may not know any but they are around.

[Misshalfway]

The people in this world cover all of the extremes and all the gray inbetween. I think that its key to understand the scriptures on this one. I don't believe that anyone is born absolutely evil.....like a bad seed or anything like that but I do think there are those whose feed carnal desires and lusts to the point that they become what they have chosen. I think its about which voice we listen to and which nature we cultivate inside of ourselves. I truly believe that each of us has the ability to discern right from wrong. Sadly, I think that evil begets evil on this earth as one generation passes down its abuses and attitudes to the next generation. But I have a hard time seeing that humans become completely bad. I sometimes feel for the child molester or murderer as they may have had extenuating circumstances in their lives. Not that this excuses anything. I just think that I think there is good in people even if they don't choose it.

[Misshalfway]

I wanted to say also that its interesting to me the lengths that people will go to "prove" they are good whether it be to others or themselves. I don't think humans are very good at recognizing our own worth independent of what we do or what we have. It's interesting to me that this is one of satans greatest tools as he gets us to lie to ourselves and then believe the lie.....whether the lie is there to cover evil or to blind one to how God would see them.

[candyprpl]

I studied psychology and sociology in school and while doing this I volunteered in the CASA program. Court Appointed Special Advicate. We worked with the social services dept. We would be assigned one or two children to represent in court hearings. While doing this I was becoming very entrenched in the 'evil doings' of the world. It was very sad to see so much badness in the world. At the time I was not a member of the Church. When I joined the Church it was such a relief to see children growing up in happy healthy homes. I've talked to law enforcement officers and social workers who are members and they all tell me how hard it is to do their work and keep in mind that these people who choose to do evil acts are children of God.

What still confuses me now is how some people who have had bad things happen to them will carry on with that kind of behavior. I am a survivor of child abuse and was raped when I was 14 and what I wanted to do was find out what made people do those things to innocent children AND be the best possible mother. All my studying and working in 'the system' never gave me the answers but it did make me more aware -- for that I am thankful.

Be careful in your study of psychology -- not everyone is psychotic or a sociopath. It's easy to start labeling. Misshalfway hit it on the head (IMO) we are not born evil -- we are all children of a loving Heavenly Father and we have been given a choice of which voice to listen to once we are born.

[annewandering]

I do believe we do have the tools to know truly evil people. The gift of discernment is one way and the other is the Holy Ghost.

God isn't going to leave us out here at the mercy of evil without a way to protect us.

I have felt the presence of evil in some people. True sickening evil. It is pretty rare fortunately but it does exist.

Likewise I have felt the presence of true goodness. Now that I hope is more common.

We are who we are when we are born. This life is to prove ourselves and to get a body. We are not all good clones. Some are very bad. Cain comes to mind. He is in the position higher in evil even than Satan. This is who he was before he was ever born. Jesus was born good. He was that way before He was born.

The rest of us are in degrees between the two. In this life we prove who we are.

Consider: Four children are born in a family. Each of them is abused horribly. As adults one accepts the lifestyle of the parents. One relishes the lifestyle of the parents. One fights it but seems to be fighting a losing battle till their death. One turns from the lifestyle and refuses to be a part in it and refuses to let his children ever have contract with that lifestyle.

What was the difference in each? The environment is never going to be exactly the same. Nevertheless each person reacts to the abuse in completely different ways from birth. The difference is in who they are spiritually. Not what they learned but who they are.

We are given tools in this life to overcome what life throws at us. The question is: what tools will we use and what ones will we ignore? That is what separates us as being evil or good.

.

Edited October 20, 2009 by annewandering

[Vort]

Those Latter-day Saints who deny the very existence of "evil people" are, I suspect, the same Latter-day Saints who deny the eternally lost state of Satan. "Why, he's our brother!" they say. "He's just misguided! Surely, in God's infinite wisdom, a way will be found to reclaim our lost brother!" Such people are either too impossibly naïve or too willfully blind to acknowledge this simple fact:

Some human souls wish to possess and subject the souls of their fellow human beings.

Yes, evil is real. Yes, there are truly evil people. No, Satan will not be redeemed, ever, nor (given who Satan is) should we reasonably even hope for such an event.

[Moksha]

Defining badness is a hard one, especially when there are degrees of badness and goodness.

Perhaps we could start with absolute badness as being a state where there are no degrees of goodness. But even this seems insufficient without the presence of having committed only bad acts though out one's life. Maybe is is best not to speak in terms of absolute goodness or badness.