Return and Report

[mormonman]

Has anyone used the Return and Report.org HT/VT tool?

I am presently a HP Group leader and some of my qourum think it would be good to use.

Any thoughts about using this program?

[KeithLBrown]

I am a HP Group Leader myself and have not heard of the program until now. I will take a look at it and give you my thoughts.

[Saguaro]

I took a quick look at the website. As an EQ president I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Here are just some of my reasons off the top of my head:

I (and my counselors/secretary) have enough to do with our callings and life in general, this looks like it would be a lot of work to set up and maintain. And we would still have to report our HT on the ward's computer system.

It would cost $20 dollars a year to use. That really isn't a lot of money, but my quorum yearly budget is $50 dollars.

If you click on the Preview button it takes you to a site called EQIdeaExchange, it says at the top that it's not an official church site, but they're trying real hard to fool you into thinking it is, they use the same blue and tan background colors as lds.org and even use the same picture of the Christus statue at the top. I find this a turn off.

If this helps others improve their HT numbers, then good for them. But in my experience the desire to go home teaching has to come from within, an email reminder may help those who already go home teaching, but those who don't will just ignore it.

[pam]

If you click on the Preview button it takes you to a site called EQIdeaExchange, it says at the top that it's not an official church site, but they're trying real hard to fool you into thinking it is, they use the same blue and tan background colors as lds.org and even use the same picture of the Christus statue at the top. I find this a turn off.

I just went and took a look at it..I agree with you. Because they are trying to make it look like the official site..that's a total turn off to me.

[mormonman]

I appreciate all of your comments.

I agree with you that hitting the preview button is a little bit hokey. But I think that he used it for a point of reference about his program.

That being said: I think it is a legitimate program.

Things I have discovered:

1-It is used by over 200 RS, EQ, HP Groups across the country.

2-The originator of the Return and Report program won the 2008 LDS Tech Award given out by the Church for his work on this program.

3-The Return and Report system application, with its many ideas and features are being incorporated into the new HT/VT system that the Church is currently working on.

4-It is simply another means to communicate with the Quorum, It helps get the word out. It doesn't replace phone calls or seeing some one in person it justs adds to it. Its a total communication effort.

Elder M. Russell Ballard said, "Yours is the world of cyberspace, cell phones that capture video, video downloads, and itunes, social networks like facebook, text messaging and blogs, handhelds and podcasts... How will you use these marvelous inventions? More to the point, how will you use them to further the work of the Lord?

So as a HP Quorum we have decided to use the program. The 1st three months are entirely free, if after you decide you want to continue it is from $10-$20, which I will pay out of my pocket if it proves of worth.

[jgraham]

I know the person who maintains the ReturnAndReport.org site and the EQIdeaExchange sites. The only reason they look similar to Church sites is that they were designed hoping that they could become official Church sites. No one is trying to trick anyone.

Both sites are unofficial and not related to the Church in any way... except for the fact that people use them to magnify their Church callings. This fact is clearly stated on both sites and no one is trying to get away with anything.

Finally, you are not allowed to use your Church budget for ReturnAndReport.org. These sites are optional tools to help magnify your calling if you wish. This is no different than purchasing a "talk on CD" from Deseret Book to use in your class.

Hope that helps. We have been using ReturnAndReport.org for 2 years now. It is absolutely awesome and continues to get better as time goes on. I wish the Church would get serious about developing a similar solution that could be official, but they currently have no plans to do so.

JG

[Gwen]

do you actually enter ppl's names? other personal info (address, email, phone, etc)?

when you actually use it do you have names in the places or does it stay anonymous where each person has a number like in the example?

[jgraham]

do you actually enter ppl's names? other personal info (address, email, phone, etc)?

when you actually use it do you have names in the places or does it stay anonymous where each person has a number like in the example?

You can enter as much or as little information you want to.

The minimum information you need is: Teacher Name, Household or Sister Name, Teacher Email Address. You also have the ability to enter phone numbers and home addresses as an option. Some areas seem to be more liberal than others when determining what data they prefer to store.

JG

[mormonman]

You have to use a tool such as HTVT Helper, to enter the names.(Free) This downloads very nicelyonto your server and then into return and report site.

Example I am a HP GL, so I had to enter all the names of all the individuals and families that High Priest Home Teach into the system. I then had to assign them companionships,teaching routes, District's that they report to and the like.

And yes we have to have personal names, addresses, email, phone #'s, would be pretty senseless with out it.

But everyting is on a secure website. the only people who have access to it are the people who have stewardship over it anyway-The Leaders, no one else. The same people have access to the information on Church MLS.

I emailed all my Districts and Companionships for them to Return and report about their Home Teaching visits and more about the needs and to how the families are doing.

I had all of my home teaching reports returned to me and completed on the 1st of the month (Fast Sunday) for my meeting with the Bishopric for PEC, So I was able to discuss the needs of the families I have stewardship over. I handed The list of Families that had been home taught and it was all entered into the MLS by my HP Group Secretary on the 1st Sunday (Fast Sunday).

It sure beats waiting on companionships to get you their reports and report back to you can take up to 10 days to get reports in.

All my HP love it, thought it should have been implemented years ago. Hp love it so much, Elders Quorum signed up too.

[Gwen]

is that against church policy?

i was told i am not to use any information obtained from official church sources (like vt lists or address list printed by the clerk, etc) for anything other than official church things and it can not be shared outside of official church business. i can't give out the address list. if i start a home business selling cosmetics i can't go down the rs phone list for ppl to sell to.

i assume everyone has an acct so they can sign in and check off when they have done a visit? can everyone see everyone's list or only their own?

not sure if it's church policy but here they keep lists confidential and if you have done the visits or not confidential. if my vt doesn't do her visits i will never know who she is, all i will know is i have never been visited.

not saying it's a bad program and i think the pie charts are kinda cool. could be neat to print to get ppl to see how much really is or isn't getting done each month as over all statitics. just concerns off the top of my head.

as for the comments to the coloring, font, etc.... i would change it. may not be trying to fool ppl but if that is the impression you give off then it's counter productive. it bothered me a bit too even though i read the explaination before i visited.

[beefche]

That makes me nervous. We aren't supposed to use the church roster in an inappropriate manner. I'm not saying this is inappropriate, but I can sure see how someone hostile to the church could use this in a court as an accusation of invasion of privacy/sharing personal information inappropriately.

[mormonman]

My Best advice would be to do what I did. Go on the site, look around, it's free for the first 90 days. Look on the forums get a feel for how the website works.

[jgraham]

is that against church policy?

i was told i am not to use any information obtained from official church sources (like vt lists or address list printed by the clerk, etc) for anything other than official church things and it can not be shared outside of official church business. i can't give out the address list. if i start a home business selling cosmetics i can't go down the rs phone list for ppl to sell to.

i assume everyone has an acct so they can sign in and check off when they have done a visit? can everyone see everyone's list or only their own?

not sure if it's church policy but here they keep lists confidential and if you have done the visits or not confidential. if my vt doesn't do her visits i will never know who she is, all i will know is i have never been visited.

not saying it's a bad program and i think the pie charts are kinda cool. could be neat to print to get ppl to see how much really is or isn't getting done each month as over all statitics. just concerns off the top of my head.

as for the comments to the coloring, font, etc.... i would change it. may not be trying to fool ppl but if that is the impression you give off then it's counter productive. it bothered me a bit too even though i read the explaination before i visited.

This is not against Church policy. Special efforts have been put forth to ensure that RAR complies with existing Church policy. It is against Church policy to export data from Church systems and upload to a website. The RAR system does not encourage or require anyone to do this and it clearly states that.

Only Presidency Members can see the entire list. Those set to an access level of "Teacher" can only see their own assignments.

Furthermore, only those who are excited about and feel they would benefit from the RAR system are encouraged to use it. Anyone (Presidency or Teacher) who does not want to use it are encouraged to remove their information from the system and continue to report the old-fashioned way. The last thing the site operator wants is for anyone to be "forced" to use the tool.

Rather than speculate as to what could be wrong with the system, I'd encourage anyone to try it out for themselves. If you don't like it, don't use it.

JG

[jgraham]

That makes me nervous. We aren't supposed to use the church roster in an inappropriate manner. I'm not saying this is inappropriate, but I can sure see how someone hostile to the church could use this in a court as an accusation of invasion of privacy/sharing personal information inappropriately.

This is in no way affiliated with the Church. As with any other website, anyone who asks for their name to be removed from the site will be removed.

JG

Edited November 3, 2009 by jgraham

[Gwen]

Rather than speculate as to what could be wrong with the system, I'd encourage anyone to try it out for themselves. If you don't like it, don't use it.

JG

ty for being willing to answer questions.

lol don't see it working here. we can barely get our members to put their reports in the computer at church much less anywhere else. a simple phone call seems to be best.

as for trying it out and seeing before i fully process the pro's and con's.... sorry not my style. i find i tend to stay on the path better when i process my choices before i make them.

it does seem like a lot of thought has gone into it, there could be some good benefits under the right circumstances, and if it's working great for some areas then wonderful.

i just worry about the church policy of sharing information like that. i would feel more comfortable if i knew ppl were saying in their meetings... i'm setting X up, if you would like to be included in the system then let me know. then ppl are signed up with their consent, not finding out after the fact and having the option to be removed from it. i don't like the idea of putting ppl's personal info out there without their consent. yes that is even knowing it's not public access. maybe that's just me.

[jgraham]

ty for being willing to answer questions.

lol don't see it working here. we can barely get our members to put their reports in the computer at church much less anywhere else. a simple phone call seems to be best.

as for trying it out and seeing before i fully process the pro's and con's.... sorry not my style. i find i tend to stay on the path better when i process my choices before i make them.

it does seem like a lot of thought has gone into it, there could be some good benefits under the right circumstances, and if it's working great for some areas then wonderful.

i just worry about the church policy of sharing information like that. i would feel more comfortable if i knew ppl were saying in their meetings... i'm setting X up, if you would like to be included in the system then let me know. then ppl are signed up with their consent, not finding out after the fact and having the option to be removed from it. i don't like the idea of putting ppl's personal info out there without their consent. yes that is even knowing it's not public access. maybe that's just me.

I understand your concerns about Church policy. I think it is important to secure Church data, but you have to look at the big picture. How is Home Teaching/Visiting Teaching being handled now? A great percentage of it is being handled through Email. Email is by far the least secure way to transfer anything across the Internet. I guarantee you that more confidential stuff than HT/VT Results are also being handled by Email. I think it is awesome that we now have a far more secure way of handling HT/VT via the Internet.

Leaders should absolutely get the consent of their quorum or group ahead of time. I will suggest that some wording be added to the RAR website to encourage this.

JG

[MarginOfError]

The Church is aware of Return and Report, and it was developed with the suggestions and feedback of the LDSTech community. Its initial release did not conform to Church policies regarding the safe-keeping of data, but it has since been brought into compliance.

The Church announced in September 2008 that it would develop its own Home Teaching and Visiting Teaching software. It will be very similar to Return and Report, and once released, the owner of Return and Report will graciously discontinue their product. I'm not exactly sure when the Church's version will be ready.

Read more about it:

HT/VT Reporting Website Overview - LDS Technology Forums

RAR Strengths/Weaknesses - LDS Technology Forums

Home Teaching / Visiting Teaching Application - LDS Technology Forums

and for more about using the web to track members

Approved online tracking programs - Page 2 - LDS Technology Forums

[jgraham]

The Church is aware of Return and Report, and it was developed with the suggestions and feedback of the LDSTech community. Its initial release did not conform to Church policies regarding the safe-keeping of data, but it has since been brought into compliance.

The Church announced in September 2008 that it would develop its own Home Teaching and Visiting Teaching software. It will be very similar to Return and Report, and once released, the owner of Return and Report will graciously discontinue their product. I'm not exactly sure when the Church's version will be ready.

Read more about it:

HT/VT Reporting Website Overview - LDS Technology Forums

RAR Strengths/Weaknesses - LDS Technology Forums

Home Teaching / Visiting Teaching Application - LDS Technology Forums

and for more about using the web to track members

Approved online tracking programs - Page 2 - LDS Technology Forums

MarginOfError,

While that information was accurate at one time, recently I have learned that the Church has no plans to duplicate the functionality of returnandreport.org. Therefore, it looks as though it will not be going away any time in the foreseeable future. The project the Church is working on is nothing more than an MLS-Rewrite and will not contain any functionality beyond that. Because of this, it seems that most of the community members have lost interest and abandoned the project altogether.

These are very discouraging and frustrating developments and it is a real shame, but luckily we have the unofficial returnandreport site to fall back on.

JG

Edited November 6, 2009 by jgraham

[MarginOfError]

MarginOfError,

While that information was accurate at one time, recently I have learned that the Church has no plans to duplicate the functionality of returnandreport.org. Therefore, it looks as though it will not be going away any time in the foreseeable future. The project the Church is working on is nothing more than an MLS-Rewrite and will not contain any functionality beyond that. Because of this, it seems that most of the community members have lost interest and abandoned the project altogether.

These are very discouraging and frustrating developments and it is a real shame, but luckily we have the unofficial returnandreport site to fall back on.

JG

Yeah, I spoke too soon. I posted this before I'd read all the way through those threads. It's a little disappointing that the Church decided not to develop the reporting application but I'm still holding out hope for the future.

Personally, I don't even intend to bring up Return and Report with my bishopric. I have this thing against double entry (I think it's a statistician's thing). I also have qualms about starting projects that can't be continued when I am released. I prefer to have things as simple and available as possible.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I'm a former High Priest Group Leader of 3 years, released two weeks ago.

Regarding returning and reporting -- I couldn't get my quorum to return and report if my life depended on it. I tried constant reminders, mentioned it in PPI's, had discussions about its importance, as well as people's concerns about doing it, and only the very best, dedicated "same ten people" would ever report their home teaching.

We used an email address everone could report to for home teaching, and that was enough given the fact that only two out of 14 companionships ever reported -- not even the person who became our eventual Bishop would report.

Also, a lot of older brethren aren't compuer savvy, so it would take heavy-duty training to get everyone up to speed -- I had trouble getting about 20% my brethren to open up their home teaching assignments when I sent them out in PDF format. I can imagine expecting them to get registered at the site you're pointing to would be an even greater task.

So, I think this site would be a bit of a waste of time. Now, you might have more dedicated brethren then I do, so my opinion may not apply -- but I see it as a make-work tool rather than something that will allow you to focus on other responsibilities.

A simple email address would be just as good. People tell you what they did, you print it, put it in a file, and then take it to the MLS system at Church for data entry.

Edited November 17, 2009 by mormonmusic

[jgraham]

I'm a former High Priest Group Leader of 3 years, released two weeks ago.

Regarding returning and reporting -- I couldn't get my quorum to return and report if my life depended on it. I tried constant reminders, mentioned it in PPI's, had discussions about its importance, as well as people's concerns about doing it, and only the very best, dedicated "same ten people" would ever report their home teaching.

We used an email address everone could report to for home teaching, and that was enough given the fact that only two out of 14 companionships ever reported -- not even the person who became our eventual Bishop would report.

Also, a lot of older brethren aren't compuer savvy, so it would take heavy-duty training to get everyone up to speed -- I had trouble getting about 20% my brethren to open up their home teaching assignments when I sent them out in PDF format. I can imagine expecting them to get registered at the site you're pointing to would be an even greater task.

So, I think this site would be a bit of a waste of time. Now, you might have more dedicated brethren then I do, so my opinion may not apply -- but I see it as a make-work tool rather than something that will allow you to focus on other responsibilities.

A simple email address would be just as good. People tell you what they did, you print it, put it in a file, and then take it to the MLS system at Church for data entry.

You know, it is really funny how people are so eager to say, "it is a waste of time" or make some other negative comment without even trying it out and finding out for themselves. Try using the site as I have.... then make your comments based on facts and real-world experience.

The beauty of ReturnAndReport.org is that not every group member has to use it in order for it to be helpful. Those who do not want to report online can do it the old-fashioned way. But anyone who has a computer will find it extremely easy to report online.

JG

[Gwen]

"waste of time" is a relative comment. one person can say it without trying it and be very accurate whereas someone else may not. depends on the situation.

we have a very small branch, you are only talking like 6 companionships as it is. most of those are not computer savvy and getting them to use the church system is hard enough. ppl don't like change, it wouldn't go over well. here to even try it out is a waste of time when you are only talking making 6 phone calls.

now i could see where if you were in a large ward, not all older ppl, with 25+ companionships to deal with, ppl were on the computer all the time anyway how this could be a very helpful tool. in that situation "a waste of time" would not fit.

for everyone the situation would be very different. i feel better about it knowing the church is aware and supportive of it. i don't see any reason for someone to take it personally if another points out why it would not fit their area, just as others point out why it works great for them. will help those who may be considering it evaluate their area and know if it's worth their time to try it out or not.

[KeithLBrown]

I am currently the High Priest Group Leader for my Ward. Even though there may be good intentions behind the Return and Report website, personally from what I have experienced as both the Second and First Counselor in the Bishopric, and now as the High Priest Group Leader is that what we need is not more programs to help get the job done, in my humble opinion, what we need is to instill in the members first and foremost, the principles of RESPONSIBILITY and ACCOUNTABILITY.

The Lord knows my heart and I do not mean to bad mouth any of my brothers or anyone else, but, after 11.5 years as a member of the Church, I am starting to get just a little frustrated that it always seems to be the "Faithful 10 Club" that carries the load for any and everything. In our quorums there are some brothers (well, lets just be honest here, there are some members in general) who are perfectly happy and content sitting on their blessed assurances and never taking the responsibility to be accountable for anything no matter what approach you take with them.

I personally do not see why it is so difficult to Return and Report Home Teaching results. I have even suggested to our quorum that in order to make it easier on themselves, don't wait until the end of the month to report, instead report your results as you do your Home Teaching. That way by the end of the month all of the results are ready to recorded in the MLS database. I have even divided our Home Teaching routes into 3 districts with myself and my two counselors being the District Leaders. I have told the brothers who they should report to and have given them phone numbers and email addresses and still each month it is the same ordeal in trying to get them to give us their results.

Again, just my humble opinion, but we do not need more programs. What we need is to get back to teaching the basic principles of the Gospel and helping our brothers (our members) to understand the importance of those principles. It would not hurt if the Bishopric (who are members of the High Priest Quorum) would use a Sacrament meeting to give talks on our Resposibilities and Accountabilities as members and the importance of Returning and Reporting.

Just my humble thoughts and views as a leader in the Church. I will now step down from my proverbial soap box.

Edited November 19, 2009 by KeithLBrown

[Gwen]

i agree it is a problem that there is the faithful 10 that do everything (or in some branches 4 lol).... i did want to point out (though maybe a bit off topic) this isn't an exclusively lds problem.... i think it's human nature to avoid being one of the 10. my husband is on the soccer board in our town and he runs into it there. everyone says "we'll support you as board pres"... "these are our ideas".... "oh that's a great idea".... whatever but then when asked to do something more or be pres themselves it's like "ummm NO" not sure i understand it but it seems to be a problem everywhere.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Sorry Gwen, it might've been insensitive of me to use the words "waste of time" when you are others may have put a lot of effort into developing and even promoting the site.

I didn't feel I needed to test out the site, because of some other reasons:

1. It would mean duplicating work already created in MLS system setting up home teaching companionships and assignments. Often Ward leaders consult these assignments, and probably prefer to just use the MLS system.

2. Few people return and report, so the effort put into setting it up, registering, training everyone would benefit only a few people.

3. The few that return and report give me the information I need in email usually.

4. The data will have to be transferred to the MLS system anyway for reporting to the Stake, which collects data through upload.

What I think we really need are enhanced features in our existing MLS system that do the following:

a) Allow remote access to the MLS home teaching system via the Web.

b) Allow historical tracking of visits made to members, as well as some indication of their reaction -- whether they indicated they wanted to see no one, if they wrote a name removal letter, if they want to be on the mailing list, of they are OKToVisit but never make themselves available, with input available from both RS and the Priesthood quorum assigned.

I was able to make this work by getting membership rights assigned to me -- and using custom member fields, was able to categorize each person in my stewardship as Active, Move-Out, Mailing List, DNC, NameRemoval, OKtoVisit etcetera. I was also able to append comments to their records, such as "Visited by Brother Q, slammed door and threatened to call police". This is information was useful for the next HPGL who took over, and was able to know the status of each person in his stewardship and to NOT hassle people who didn't want to see us. It acted almost like a Customer Relationship Management System.

I was also able to run a mailing list on mailing labels really easily using this system -- I can create a custom report that lists the names and addresses of all people with the MailingLIst value stored in the Category custom field next to their name.

As it stands, the only way you can cateogorize the people in your stewardship is to assign them to specific companionships (like all name removals to the Bishop), and then remember what the companionship represents.

Another advantage was the RS would also enter their own categorization codes (Move-Out, MailingLIst, etc) abd comments so I would see a name that I didn't recognize, I could then have immediate history about them, and decide if they should have a home teacher.

Each month I'd shuffle my people around in cateogories and make comments as their activity status changed. The next HPGL really appreciated having all that information at his fingertips.