belly button

[Traveler]

Guess it depends on how literal you take the creation story.

If it is literal i would say no. Dust needs no umbilical cord and therefor i don't think there would be a belly button.

Good song on the subjectYouTube - Veggie Tales-Bellybutton

Why do we, men, have nipples? that's the million dollar question.:)

Ancently dust was symbolic of substance that has no use or purpose.

The Traveler

[lattelady]

Traveler,

I don't want to hijack the OP's thread. If you've read anything I've ever said about my beliefs on the Trinity, I've explained that I believe God is three in one. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. That Jesus is God in the flesh is not something I've "made up." I believe it's taught in scripture. I realize that you don't agree, so there's no need to attempt to convince you of my beliefs, nor was I trying to. The OP asked if Adam had a bellybutton, and I'm pretty sure they were seeking a discussion on whether people feel he did or did not and why. I was simply taking part in that discussion. I recognize, as you aforementioned, that you are "one of my biggest critics." Back to the topic at hand...or...bellybutton... :)

[Seminarysnoozer]

Genesis 1:26-27 speaks specifically to the creation of Man - I see no reference to Adam. Please provide the scripture that speaks to the creation of Adam - I cannot find it. And just so I am clear - you believe that G-d did not create you are anyone else you know?

And so I am clear - I believe G-d created all things - including you and we are quite clear on how you were created.

The Traveler

God created my spirit, I don't think we differ in our beliefs that way. I believe God created all things to act in its sphere it was placed. The result of the actions though God did not do. So, in essence we are all (our physical self) God's creation because He started the whole thing but no I don't believe that God purposely put my set of genes into its current mix and thus 'create' my body.

If I create a virus that reproduces itself a million times, I could still say that I created all those viruses, even though they were really created by the viruses own ability to reproduce itself. The initial creation of everything to act in its sphere was created by God, then everything that followed was produced from its own ability to reproduce itself. But God still created everything in the sense that He started it all.

My great great great great great..... great grandfather who joined a viking raiding party and pillaged a Scottish village somewhere and in turn passed on his genes to my ancestors was not Gods hand in forming my body. I don't believe that. This is why things have to be restored. The restoration is a direct need made by the fall and all of the corruption put into it over the years. Adams original body could not make descendants so it was altered from the original creation. Our bodies are descendant from the fallen Adam and Eve, not the perfect original creation Adam and Eve. Even Adam's fallen body has to be restored to its original state to become immortal and perfected.

[Hemidakota]

God doesn't have a bellybutton, because God is a spirit. (John 4:24--"God is SPIRIT, and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.").

Hopefully not....if it was so, I could never hug HIM.

[Faded]

Quick question ...did Adam have a belly button... thoughts ... any one?

A.) We don't know.

B.) We're never going to know in this life.

C.) The question is irrelevant, and if we had the answer, it would not help nor hinder us in our quest for Salvation and Eternal Life.

Other useless questions:

What color of hair did Adam have?

What about Eve?

How tall were they?

What size shoe did Adam and Eve wear?

How many push ups could Adam do in one minute?

If Adam and Enoch were to race in a 100 yard dash, who would win?

What was the exact population of the City of Enoch?

What was Adam's favorite food? Favorite color? Favorite hobby or past-time?

What about Eve? What was her favorite color, food, hobbies, etc?

Could Adam beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in an arm-wrestling match?

[Vort]

Vort,

What do I think spirit is? It's distinct from the body in which it resides--for instance, my grandfather passed away last Tuesday at the age of 93. His burial will be next week. His body is awaiting burial, but his spirit went to be with the Lord the moment he took his last breath. His body, the shell that housed his spirit is empty now.

Agreed. Yet while he was alive, your grandfather was still a spirit, was he not? Yet he was still a physical being, as well. Same is true with you, with me, and with six billion other people on the earth.

Then why not with God? Why does God's being "a spirit" somehow preclude him from having a body -- a thing which we already know is true, because the Bible clearly witnessed of Christ's literal, physical resurrection?

God is spirit. The Word of God tells us so in the book of John and elsewhere. He became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ, but God Himself is Spirit.

And Jesus Christ himself is God. Ergo, God has a body.

What do YOU think spirit is?

I think "spirit" is a form of matter. As Joseph Smith taught, "There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes; We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter."

I think that a spirit is an individual, a creation (child) of God.

Does your spirit have a bellybutton

This is a question of mechanics. You are asking, in effect, "How does God create your spirit?" I do not know the answer, as I'm pretty sure you don't, either. So I can't tell you whether my spirit has a belly button.

or is your bellybutton located somewhere in the region of your stomach on your PHYSICAL body?

Why do you think it must be either/or? Why couldn't it be both?

[Hemidakota]

What evidence do we have that the creation story, specifically of Adam and Eve and the story of the Fall is literal? Why couldn't it all be a parable meant to teach us something?

Eve was formed from Adam's rib--is that literal or is it meant to teach us that man and woman are meant to walk side-by-side. Man is not above woman, nor vise versa.

What scripture states that Adam and Eve were never infants? As Latter-day Saints, we believe in a Heavenly Mother. Does anyone believe that she has no part in the Creation? Why would we need a HM if she doesn't do anything? If HF can create without any help, why bother creating two genders? Why promise eternal increase to those who reach the highest degree of celestial glory? Do we assume that this eternal increase refers to creating life the same way my son forms people out of PlayDoh?

A story is being told...not the actual creation if I used a few of church’s earlier leadership. This is by my account, the biggest gem and mystical for those who have not received special revelation, within the scriptures [beside the Atonement], is ‘the Adams’ creation.

As I don’t believe the original author used the term MAN as it was revealed to him would be the correct term but ADAM, meaning FIRST. When I view a heavenly vision, I will strive to write it as I can relate current knowledge of my day. Even John had a hard time seeing into the future and yet, using his own knowledge in describing on what is being seen. The best part here but brings much curiosity, Joseph Smith asked to see the same thing and for him, he quoted, this is plainest book ever written [paraphrasing]. Yes! For anyone who viewing a movie, would state it is but for the untrained spiritual mind, it would be difficult to understand the writings given in Revelations. As I also know, there are times when we viewed heavenly scenes, we are told not to write those things unless commanded by the Spirit. I can assume, in the case of Moses, there is much more revealed but portion of it is only given to satisfy a tidbit of a curious inquiring mind.

As you also indicated and I concur with your statement, GOD or those in this story whom I call Creators, created ADAM as a perfect being. There is no corruptible being in this story. If that is the case, ADAM being 100-percent perfect, if one removes a portion from this perfect created body, what is left? We can assume it is not now 100-percent anymore. In depicting the scene being revealed, if there is specific gender within the story, it would require further insight by heavenly instructions. We can read, the Creators told this individual, immature in instruction and experience, ADAM was alone. It was not ADAM who stated this. In revealing how long this state lasted, is questionable and not even revealed in the temple. By causing a portion being removed, leaves the original being less than 100-percent and causing two beings to equal 100-percent. Look at the designed features of each Adam [male and female] and the notable slight intelligence differences of each. If I could back engineer two beings into one, what do I have as a created being? In the beginning before MAN, if there is such, what was this being? It must be something higher than we are since we are told; those who receive the highest order in the Celestial Kingdom will receive a ‘white stone’ upon which we can view higher states above us. These I can attest are true and concur with John vision. In using educational reasoning here, being in GOD presence, then what is above GOD?

For me, this is eternal historical truths being revealed here that is past over by most readers. Even Abraham account, is revealing past progression from kingdom below us to where we are now at [image of GOD/GODDESS]…and we do know by our dispensational prophet, GOD is not the author of intelligence or spiritual matter. Then who is? This only leaves us room for a kingdom above the state of Celestial. If anyone wants to seek to be with GOD for ever, this for me is a key to give up the world and pursue the same eternal course of where the Savior walked.

Returning back to the story, it reveals a lot about creation of humanity, how it was created, purpose of its existing, and why there is need for companionship. What are missing from this account by Abraham, Moses, and Joseph Smith, are the details, which I suspect is not allowed to be written. What we are told though, if there is an Adam, there is one before it.

Both Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon both viewed the creation, to what aspect of the past creation was shown are not revealed. In the end, instead of speculation, it will require for any member to see it for themselves and this is not always given to anyone less than those who are called into the Church of the First-Born.

[Hemidakota]

Our Eternal Salvation requires that we know the answer!

If your calling and election is made sure then yes.

[Hemidakota]

A.) We don't know.

B.) We're never going to know in this life.

C.) The question is irrelevant, and if we had the answer, it would not help nor hinder us in our quest for Salvation and Eternal Life.

Other useless questions:

What color of hair did Adam have?

What about Eve?

How tall were they?

It is very important if your slavation requires such edification by those who minister to you. Noting twice Joseph Smith witnessed both Adam and Eve, those questions are already answered.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Returning back to the story, it reveals a lot about creation of humanity, how it was created, purpose of its existing, and why there is need for companionship. What are missing from this account by Abraham, Moses, and Joseph Smith, are the details, which I suspect is not allowed to be written. What we are told though, if there is an Adam, there is one before it.

"there is one before it." Says nothing as to the mechanism in which it was made. I agree we don't know how it was done, except those that have seen it and in the afterlife we will recall all we already knew about it. But just to say there is one before it could simply mean that this is how it was done before and always done, it doesn't mean that "Adam" was born to someone. If I find a 'perfect' computer, I can create that computer from scratch without taking any parts from the other one but using the same design. So there was one before but, one did not produce the other. It is just a replica of the previous. And if that perfect replica in the image of God is the same model God uses then it is God (in form). "there is one before it" says nothing as to the relationship that physical body has with God or how it is made. It doesn't have to be in the manner in which corrupted bodies reproduce themselves. We don't know that.

[Ammonite]

C.) The question is irrelevant, and if we had the answer, it would not help nor hinder us in our quest for Salvation and Eternal Life.

I agree if we focus only on the bellybutton rather than using this topic as a stepping point to a discussion about the nature of God.

[Vort]

Why do we, men, have nipples? that's the million dollar question.:)

So that we can nurse our children?

[Ammonite]

A story is being told...not the actual creation if I used a few of church’s earlier leadership. This is by my account, the biggest gem and mystical for those who have not received special revelation, within the scriptures [beside the Atonement], is ‘the Adams’ creation.

I concur that the Peal of Great Price has more docrinal gems than any other scripture and is appropriately named.

I can't say I understood everything in the rest of your reply--I'm still a newborn when it comes to delving into deep doctrine--but I agree with what I did.

[Justice]

What evidence do we have that the creation story, specifically of Adam and Eve and the story of the Fall is literal? Why couldn't it all be a parable meant to teach us something?

Eve was formed from Adam's rib--is that literal or is it meant to teach us that man and woman are meant to walk side-by-side. Man is not above woman, nor vise versa.

What scripture states that Adam and Eve were never infants? As Latter-day Saints, we believe in a Heavenly Mother. Does anyone believe that she has no part in the Creation? Why would we need a HM if she doesn't do anything? If HF can create without any help, why bother creating two genders? Why promise eternal increase to those who reach the highest degree of celestial glory? Do we assume that this eternal increase refers to creating life the same way my son forms people out of PlayDoh?

We have the evidence that we are now mortal. Adam and Eve fell from their immortal state, meaning there was a consequence for a real act they made in transgression.

God would never punish anyone as the result of an allegory.

I believe Adam and Eve were both born as infants. :) All very good questions you ask, that I fear enough people don't ask themselves as they read the scriptures.

[Justice]

Vort,

What do I think spirit is? It's distinct from the body in which it resides--for instance, my grandfather passed away last Tuesday at the age of 93. His burial will be next week. His body is awaiting burial, but his spirit went to be with the Lord the moment he took his last breath. His body, the shell that housed his spirit is empty now.

God is spirit. The Word of God tells us so in the book of John and elsewhere. He became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ, but God Himself is Spirit. The actual definition, I suppose would be: the essential nature of a person, the part of a human associated with mind, will and feelings; the animating force within a living being. God is spirit. He is everywhere-present; this would be hard to do if he had a body. As a spirit--and as God of the universe, He is in all places at all times!

What do YOU think spirit is? Does your spirit have a bellybutton, or is your bellybutton located somewhere in the region of your stomach on your PHYSICAL body?

Yes, but your grandfather is spirit too. He is only spirit now, but he was spirit when he was mortal also, that can be proved by the fact that his body has no life without his spirit. He will still be spirit after he is resurrected, except that his body will no longer be able to die.

Just because the scriptures say God is spirit, it does not prove God does not have a body. :)

[Justice]

I've heard this one before.....it does'nt matter if he did or not. I don't think he had one because he was'nt born like us, he was fully man when God put him here.

I guess you're going to have to show me where the scriptures teach this.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I believe Adam and Eve were both born as infants. :) All very good questions you ask, that I fear enough people don't ask themselves as they read the scriptures.

Where do you get the word "born" when referring to Adam and Eve's creation? Is there a scripture or GA talk or something?

[Vort]

Where do you get the word "born" when referring to Adam and Eve's creation? Is there a scripture or GA talk or something?

When I was created, I was born. The same is true for every other person I have ever met. Why is it unreasonable to assume the same for Adam and Eve?

[Justice]

In fact, God used "seeds" (called "he") and Adam "tilling the ground" or earth (called her or mother earth) to get fruit (seed of a kind) to teach him about "seed" and offspring.

[lattelady]

There's no need to assume that Adam and Eve were not born, rather they were created (Adam from the dust of the ground and Eve from Adam's rib)--scripture teaches it in the book of Genesis.

[Faded]

The most interesting thing to me is this: Justice believes Adam and Eve were born. Lattelady believes they were created from the dust and from the rib.

Neither person is hindering their own personal salvation over the matter. Only by obsessing over the matter does it become a problem. Otherwise, it's a relatively insignificant opinion.

If any of us were close enough to God to find out the answer to this question, we'd probably never be able to tell anyone anyways. We also probably would have a lot more important questions to ask than about belly buttons. The world is a bit of a mess right now afterall.

[Seminarysnoozer]

When I was created, I was born. The same is true for every other person I have ever met. Why is it unreasonable to assume the same for Adam and Eve?

Because Bruce R. McConkie says that the nature of the creation of Adam and Eve is unknown and will be revealed to the saints at some future time. Likely, because we couldn't understand it. If that is the case, why would I think it is anything like what we know to be birth and 'creation' in that sense? It would not be like any person you or I have met.

Bruce R. McConkie:

"Our knowledge about the Creation is limited. We do not know the how and the why and when of all things. Our limitations are such that we could not comprehend them if they were revealed to us in all their glory, fulness, and perfection. What has been revealed is that portion of the Lord’s word which we must believe and understand if we are to envision the truth about the Fall and Atonement and thus become heirs of salvation.

At some future time the Lord will expect more of his Saints in regard to the Creation than he does of us. “When the Lord shall come, he shall reveal all things,” our latter-day revelations tell us—“Things which have passed, and hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth, by which it was made, and the purpose and the end thereof.” (D&C 101:32–33.) Pending the Millennium, it is our responsibility to believe and accept that portion of the truth about the Creation that has been dispensed to us."

He also said : "Remember also that the Fall was made possible because an infinite Creator made the earth and man and all forms of life in such a state that they could fall. This fall involved a change of status. All things were so created that they could fall or change, and thus was introduced the kind of existence needed to put into operation all of the terms of the Father’s eternal plan of salvation.

The first temporal creation of all things was paradisiacal in nature. In the Edenic day all forms of life lived in a higher and different state than now prevails. The coming fall would take them downward and forward and onward. Death and procreation had yet to enter the world. Death would be Adam’s gift to man, and the gift of God would be eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

So, the body of Adam and Eve and all other living things was unique in that it was paradisiacal in nature, unlike our bodies now and able to fall, unlike our bodies will be after resurrection. We have not witnessed the creation of Adam and Eve's bodies a million times as was said in this thread. We do not know, other than it is unlike anything we do know. This was a unique creation that had to be tied into the upcoming fall, death and resurrection. That creation could not take place by itself, without a plan for restoration. We know very little of that kind of creation.

[Snow]

Because Bruce R. McConkie says that the nature of the creation of Adam and Eve is unknown and will be revealed to the saints at some future time. Likely, because we couldn't understand it. If that is the case, why would I think it is anything like what we know to be birth and 'creation' in that sense? It would not be like any person you or I have met.

Speak for yourself. It may be likely that you couldn't understand it but I have a general understanding of how people are born.

[Snow]

There's no need to assume that Adam and Eve were not born, rather they were created (Adam from the dust of the ground and Eve from Adam's rib)--scripture teaches it in the book of Genesis.

That's not exactly true. There are two separate and different creation myths in Genesis.

Genesis 1: Man and woman are created simultaneous - no description of the creative process is given. The story is the newer of the two and may have been written as late as the 5th century BCE.

Genesis 2: Man is created first, out of the dust and afterwards, Eve is created from Adam's rib. This is the older story and dates to about 1000 BCE from southern tradition.

[Snow]

God doesn't have a bellybutton, because God is a spirit. (John 4:24--"God is SPIRIT, and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.").

Did you read your own post?

1. The verse says nothing about whether God, in addition to being spirit, has a material body. Man also is spirit or has a spirit and yet also has a material body. Ancient Judaism certainly understood God to be corporeal.

2. The verse clearly says that man must worship God is spirit. If one followed your logic - that being spirit excluded materiality, then man would have to exit his body in order to worship God.

3. Are you not familiar with Genesis 1:26 that clearly says man was to be made in God image and likeness?