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ruthiechan

The Holy Ghost was available to all, even before Christ.

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I have heard a few people on here saying that the Holy Ghost wasn't given to mankind until after it descended upon Christ in the form of a dove. That supposition never made sense to me and now I know why.

1 Nephi 10

17 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, having heard all the words of my father, concerning the things which he saw in a vision, and also the things which he spake by the power of the Holy Ghost, which power he received by faith on the Son of God—and the Son of God was the Messiah who should come—I, Nephi, was desirous also that I might see, and hear, and know of these things, by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is the gift of God unto gall those who diligently seek him, as well in times of hold as in the time that he should manifest himself unto the children of men.

18 For he is the same yesterday, to-day, and forever; and the way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world, if it so be that they repent and come unto him.

19 For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round.

20 Therefore remember, O man, for all thy doings thou shalt be brought into judgment.

21 Wherefore, if ye have sought to do wickedly in the days of your probation, then ye are found unclean before the judgment-seat of God; and no unclean thing can dwell with God; wherefore, ye must be cast off forever.

22 And the Holy Ghost giveth authority that I should speak these things, and deny them not.

Italics added

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Matthew 16:17

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Since the Lord clearly is not talking about a personal visitation of the Father to Simon Peter, the only other option I can think of is revelation through the Holy Ghost.

It is clearly untrue to say that the Holy Ghost was inoperative until Christ's atonement was completed, but it does seem that there was some sort of period during the Lord's mortal ministry when the influence of the Holy Ghost was in some sense modified. Jesus himself told his disciples that he had to leave so that the Comforter would come to them.

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The power of the Holy Ghost has always been available (subject, perhaps, to Vort's statement above regarding Christ's mortal ministry).

The gift of the Holy Ghost is contingent on the availability of a Melchizedek Priesthood holder to confer that gift.

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Many think the day of Pentecost in early Acts was the first time such an outpouring was ever made. Of course, we have the additional teachings of the Book of Mormon to clear it up, and a few scriptures from the Bible before the Day of Pentecost, like the one Vort mentioned.

However, it is an interesting question to ponder. WHy did Christ have to wait until He was gone in order to bestow this gift on them?

I believe one possible reason was mercy. I believe it was because had both witnesses (Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost) been operative upon man simultaneously, it would have given just cause for condemnation to those who did not believe both witnesses (law of witnesses is 2 or 3 are required). But, with only 1 member of the Godhead acting as witness it gave more room for leniancy and second chances (or third, or fourth, or...).

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I was told their was 2spiritual beings the other day the Holy Ghost and the Spirit by Stake President I asked what was the difference he said that Holy Ghost is for everyone and that the Spirit is given to all members at confirmation as a "constant companion":):) I find that very interesting I wonder if he was refering to Light Of Christ in regards to Holy Ghost

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Avram I have never heard that before. I believe that to be incorrect. The Holy Ghost and the Spirit are the same. The only difference is that as members of the Church was CAN have the Holy Ghost aka the Spirit as a constant companion. Maybe what you're Stake President meant is what Just_A_Guy was talking about which is the difference between having the availability of the Holy Ghost and then receiving the gift to have the ability to have the Holy Ghost with you as a constant companion.

Justice, I don't think there is a difference. Christ talked about the Comforter, as in the role of the Holy Ghost as being a comforter (the Holy Ghost has many roles, such as confirming spiritual truths). Christ himself comforted the apostles, thus they would have no need to feel the comfort that the Holy Ghost can bring. However, it was something they did need to experience so they can speak of it to others and understand the comforting capacity of the Holy Ghost. Christ told them that they would receive the Comforter after he was gone as a way to comfort them with their parting, as in they would not be left bereft of the security and comfort Christ's presence gave them.

Edited by ruthiechan

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The Godhead was the Godhead before the world was created.

Yes, but what if the Spirit was on vacation in the Barbados?

The implication of what you said was that the Spirit was existing and fully functional, which would be seemingly contradictory to the notion of not functioning till a Melchizedek Priesthood holder give the okay.

?

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Avram I have never heard that before. I believe that to be incorrect. The Holy Ghost and the Spirit are the same. The only difference is that as members of the Church was CAN have the Holy Ghost aka the Spirit as a constant companion. Maybe what you're Stake President meant is what Just_A_Guy was talking about which is the difference between having the availability of the Holy Ghost and then receiving the gift to have the ability to have the Holy Ghost with you as a constant companion..

yes agree with you ruthiechan I didn't take what he said as gospel but it made for interesting chat though I thought he(SP) might be referring to the light of Christ yep Just_A_Guy seems to raise those points about difference in having the HG as opposed to having the gift of HG as a constant companiont:):)

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Justice, I don't think there is a difference. Christ talked about the Comforter, as in the role of the Holy Ghost as being a comforter (the Holy Ghost has many roles, such as confirming spiritual truths). Christ himself comforted the apostles, thus they would have no need to feel the comfort that the Holy Ghost can bring. However, it was something they did need to experience so they can speak of it to others and understand the comforting capacity of the Holy Ghost. Christ told them that they would receive the Comforter after he was gone as a way to comfort them with their parting, as in they would not be left bereft of the security and comfort Christ's presence gave them.

Yes, the Holy Ghost is the Comforter. However, Christ is the Second Comforter, who comes to a man who has been truly born again.

My point was not that they perform the same roles, or overlapping roles, but why they were not allowed to be present at the same time with man.

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This might be of interest:

Most people think of the Holy Ghost as a separate and distinct power from that of the Father and Christ. While we know it to be true that he is a distinct personage or personality, his power is not distinct from the Father and the Sons. And it is through this power that they are one.

It might correctly be said that without the authority to manifest The Spirit of God to man, the Holy Ghost would be no different than any other spirit personage. However, he has been given a specific calling, he is a gatekeeper if you will, to the sanctifying and redeeming powers of the Spirit of God.

The Light of Christ (another name for the Spirit of God), as described in D&C 88, is the glory of God manifested to us through Jesus Christ. It is characterized as light which proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space. It is in all things, round about all things, it is the law by which all things are governed. It is the POWER OF GOD who sitteth upon his throne.

Christ said to his Apostles concerning the Holy Ghost: "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" (John 15:260 The wording here is very similar to D&C 88 regarding the Light of Christ - they proceed from the Father. The reason is: The Holy Ghost unlocks the greater power of the Light of Christ to man. There are not separate powers operating on man, but the same power in varying degrees. The Light of Christ originates with God the Father and is given to all men through Christ, he is the light of the WORLD, but to the believing comes the higher manifestations of this spirit through the Holy Ghost.

Christ then says: "He [the Holy Ghost] shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you." (John 16:14). All the Holy Ghost is doing is revealing to man 'more abundantly' the Spirit of God (or light of Christ) which is emanating from the Father through Christ. As he says, the Holy Ghost would receive of what Christ had and shew it unto us.

Therefore, as long as Christ was with the Apostles they were in the presence of the same Spirit or influence that the Comforter would later manifest to them. It would be a redundant witness and take away from the significance of the first person testimony of the Light of the world, Himself. Obviously the Spirit of God was operating through Christ to the Apostles directly as is witnessed by Peter's testimony. (see Matthew 16:17).

Hope this is helpful.

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