Hebrew names in the BoM

[thekabalist]

That or Moroni gave us the Hebrew/Nephite transliterated Hugh Nibley noted that the names Laban and Lemuel are Arabic,

They are also Hebrew names Laban means "white" in Hebrew and Lemuel is one of the names of King Solomon and means "belonging to G-d".

Nephi and Sam are Egyptian, and Jacob and Joseph are Hebrew. Nibley conjectured that Lehi spent his early years trading with Arabs, and naming his older sons with Arabic names. Later trading with Egypt led him to name his middle sons with Egyptian names. Finally, in his sojourn in the wilderness, Lehi returned to his Hebrew roots in naming his youngest sons.

I would respectfully disagree with him. It's highly unusual for Israelites to give foreign names to their sons and daughters. Double names yes but exclusively foreign names I doubt. And besides they seem to be very Hebrew in origin.

Nephil would mean "tall one" in Hebrew and "Sam" could very well be "שם" which could mean "this pace" or even "name/reputation" or even

"סם" and mean "perfume". :)

While the name, Almah, is Hebrew for "maiden", it is also a perfectly good man's name in ancient Israel. Among the Bar Kokhba letters (written around the time of the second revolt in 135 AD against Rome), we find the name of a man Alma in conjunction with a land sale.

Very true. As I indicated this would be the Aramaic form which would mean "world" or "universe" and would be a man's name.

Famed archaeologist, F. William Albright, was impressed that the Book of Mormon would have Egyptian names in it (Paanchi, etc), in a time when no one was able to read ancient Egyptian (Champollion translated the hieroglyphics in 1829, the same year the BoM was translated).

I don't know Egyptian but I am impressed at how many Semitic names I can find. Amazing indeed.

b'shalom

[Traveler]

........

I don't know Egyptian but I am impressed at how many Semitic names I can find. Amazing indeed.

b'shalom

Not bad for a farmer boy in his early 20’s on the frontier of America with a 3rd grade education.

The Traveler

[livy111us]

How about Abinidi being split up. Ab-ben-nadi. I was told this means messenger of the Father and the Son. I can see the Father and Son, but am not sure about the messenger part. Any thoughts?

[Just_A_Guy]

My understanding was that Aramaic was basically a language that evolved in northern Israel sometime after the fall of the Northern Kingdom to the Assyrians around 700 BC. Given that the Nephites severed their ties with Israel barely a century later, I'd be a little doubtful as to whether the Nephites would be using Aramaic terms. Would be interested to be proven wrong, though. :)

[Vort]

Abinidai - אבינידה - Abi/Avi-Nidah - quite literally, my father has been banished/secluded.

(Note that in Hebrew the letter ב can sound like a "b" or like a "v".)

Someone named like that is bound to suffer persecution. Does history confirm this?

Another etymology: Abinadi = ben Adi, son of Adi (עֲדִי) (compare Arabic "ibn Adi"). Might also be ibn Nadi or ben Nadi.

[Vanhin]

Well it's clear from the record that the language of the Nephites was Hebrew, though, over the years it had been modified by them. Concerning "reformed Egyptian", it was just a special script that the main authors of the plates developed specifically for the purpose of writing the plates. Here's from the Book of Mormon.

32 And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech.

33 And if our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record.

34 But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof. (Mormon 9:32-34)

I personally think that they wrote the record in Hebrew that was transliterated to reformed Egyptian. Regardless, Hebrew and Semitic influence in unavoidable.

Regards,

Vanhin

[pam]

Okay so I'm confused on something. We've noticed how closely the names we know from the Book of Mormon actually fit into the history or fit the person. Were those actually their given names or names that were given during the writing. It just seems so coincidental that they lived up to their given names. Or was it done during a translation somewhere?

Just curious here.

Perhaps Vanhin just answered my question. I'm not sure.

[Vort]

thekabalist, a few questions for you:

• Are you actually a kabbalist? If so, you will likely find precious little overlap between Mormonism and Jewish (or any other type of) mysticism.
• Are you actually a Jew? If so, I'm amazed that you have come onto an LDS list and provided a bunch of information that just happens to appeal to Latter-day Saints and seems to offer support for LDS doctrines.
• Are you actually a Latter-day Saint masquerading as a Jewish Kabbalist in order to try to point out areas of commonality between traditional Judaism or ancient Hebrew and LDS beliefs? If so, shame on you for practicing deception. Nothing good can come of such things. Please stop.

In case you happen to be legit and are confused or taken aback by my last point, let me assure you that such things have happened before. I know (slightly) someone who, in a fictional online persona, pretended for several years to be a practicing Baptist minister who had gained a testimony of the Book of Mormon and used it to preach to his congregation. You may not think that someone who believed LDS doctrine to be literally gospel truth would stoop to lies and deception, but you would be wrong.

[Vanhin]

Okay so I'm confused on something. We've noticed how closely the names we know from the Book of Mormon actually fit into the history or fit the person. Were those actually their given names or names that were given during the writing. It just seems so coincidental that they lived up to their given names. Or was it done during a translation somewhere?

Just curious here.

Perhaps Vanhin just answered my question. I'm not sure.

I actually think thekabalist has a very good answer on this one. I will let him answer, because the post at CF where he explained this is gone.

He might be in a completely different timezone though. :)

Regards,

Vanhin

[pam]

His profile states Israel.

[pam]

I would like to read his explanation.

[Vanhin]

thekabalist, a few questions for you:

• Are you actually a kabbalist? If so, you will likely find precious little overlap between Mormonism and Jewish (or any other type of) mysticism.
• Are you actually a Jew? If so, I'm amazed that you have come onto an LDS list and provided a bunch of information that just happens to appeal to Latter-day Saints and seems to offer support for LDS doctrines.
• Are you actually a Latter-day Saint masquerading as a Jewish Kabbalist in order to try to point out areas of commonality between traditional Judaism or ancient Hebrew and LDS beliefs? If so, shame on you for practicing deception. Nothing good can come of such things. Please stop.

In case you happen to be legit and are confused or taken aback by my last point, let me assure you that such things have happened before. I know (slightly) someone who, in a fictional online persona, pretended for several years to be a practicing Baptist minister who had gained a testimony of the Book of Mormon and used it to preach to his congregation. You may not think that someone who believed LDS doctrine to be literally gospel truth would stoop to lies and deception, but you would be wrong.

I invited him here from christianforums.com because his posts were getting deleted (see my earlier thread welcoming him).

I'll let him speak for himself, though I will explain that most of this stuff he is sharing we have already talked about on the other forums, so it comes off as "ready-made".

Regards,

Vanhin

[pam]

What many don't understand is that we are really more closely connected than people realize.

[Zechariah]

I actually think thekabalist has a very good answer on this one. I will let him answer, because the post at CF where he explained this is gone.

He might be in a completely different timezone though. :)

Regards,

Vanhin

Now that particular post I did copy and save, just because I wanted to keep it, and now I'm glad I did, with how things turned out.

But I, too, will let him answer. :)

If you'd like a copy though, I'll PM it to you.

[Vort]

I invited him here from christianforums.com because his posts were getting deleted (see my earlier thread welcoming him).

I'll let him speak for himself, though I will explain that most of this stuff he is sharing we have already talked about on the other forums, so it comes off as "ready-made".

Ah, I see. Thank you.

[thekabalist]

thekabalist, a few questions for you:

• Are you actually a kabbalist? If so, you will likely find precious little overlap between Mormonism and Jewish (or any other type of) mysticism.
• Are you actually a Jew? If so, I'm amazed that you have come onto an LDS list and provided a bunch of information that just happens to appeal to Latter-day Saints and seems to offer support for LDS doctrines.
• Are you actually a Latter-day Saint masquerading as a Jewish Kabbalist in order to try to point out areas of commonality between traditional Judaism or ancient Hebrew and LDS beliefs? If so, shame on you for practicing deception. Nothing good can come of such things. Please stop.

In case you happen to be legit and are confused or taken aback by my last point, let me assure you that such things have happened before. I know (slightly) someone who, in a fictional online persona, pretended for several years to be a practicing Baptist minister who had gained a testimony of the Book of Mormon and used it to preach to his congregation. You may not think that someone who believed LDS doctrine to be literally gospel truth would stoop to lies and deception, but you would be wrong.

Hi Vort,

In answer to your questions:

##1##

Yes, I am. However, the mystic explanations are only a portion of the Jewish faith. Kabbalah gets a bad reputation because of Maddonna and the likes. But most of it comes from New-Agey gurus that sugar-coat their cultish practices with Kabbalistic language. Most Chassidic Jews are Kabbalists and yet you would not be able to tell the difference between us and other Orthodox groups in most practices. The difference being that where there is a Biblical event, we study the mystical explanations of it from chassidic sources.

##2##

Yes, I am a Jew. Not a convert but one born to a Jewish mother. I originally subscribed to Christianforums.com where there was a great deal of other Jewish posters. We once had our own subforum back in the times that CF.com was hinting at being more open to other faiths.

The reason I came in contact with the LDS forum was because I had a dream with a Mormon Temple and went there to seek for information. I then found out about some of your beliefs by reading up several of the topics. I was curious to get an explanation for my dreams. Then I saw how many things that Evangelicals were accusing you of being strange had parallels in Judaism. After making friends with some of the LDS that helped me with my dream in return I offered them to help with understanding the Jewish culture that could underlie some of your practices. I've always enjoyed comparative religions as Judaism actually encourages us to study other faiths because. I hope I haven't offended you in my doing so. If I have accept my deepest and most sincere apologies.

When I have some more time I'll post about my dream. Right now I have to leave in five minutes.

##3##

I have never been LDS in my entire life. I know the anonymous aspect of the Internet makes everyone suspicious about who's behind a username. But I give you my word I mean no deception or harm. Especially because I would doubt that an LDS would be able to offer you so much information on Hebrew and on Judaism unless he were indeed Jewish in which case I would have no reason to hide it from you.

Once again if my posts have been offensive in any way please accept my apologies.

b'shalom!

[rameumptom]

Okay so I'm confused on something. We've noticed how closely the names we know from the Book of Mormon actually fit into the history or fit the person. Were those actually their given names or names that were given during the writing. It just seems so coincidental that they lived up to their given names. Or was it done during a translation somewhere?

Just curious here.

Perhaps Vanhin just answered my question. I'm not sure.

It was a common theme in the Old Testament to give individuals new names along the path of their lives, to manifest significant changes (Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, Lucifer to Satan/Adversary, etc). It is highly likely this occurred with these individuals. It could have happened in their lifetime, OR it could have been done by Mormon to enhance the story.

[rameumptom]

thekabalist,

You are not the first Jew to discuss such ideas. Harold Bloom wrote about Joseph Smith as the quintessential American prophet, and Mormonism as the American religion. He was amazed at how much Mormonism fit into Jewish and Kabbalistic views.

[Vort]

Once again if my posts have been offensive in any way please accept my apologies.

You have not offended at all. Please forgive my suspicions. I did not read Vanhin's post introducing you as someone he invited here, which pretty much explains things.

[mnn727]

Pam,

It is a very Jewish belief that we are influenced by our spiritual names. Every Jew has a spiritual name aside from their secular one.

Interesting, I was not aware of that -- another parallel with our religions.

Thank you so much for coming here and sharing all of this infomation!!

[thekabalist]

My understanding was that Aramaic was basically a language that evolved in northern Israel sometime after the fall of the Northern Kingdom to the Assyrians around 700 BC. Given that the Nephites severed their ties with Israel barely a century later, I'd be a little doubtful as to whether the Nephites would be using Aramaic terms. Would be interested to be proven wrong, though. :)

Aramaic has been found to have influenced Hebrew speaking communities for a long time. In Northern Israel where Jesus was established Hebrew and Aramaic were spoken side-by-side with influences to both sides. Almah was quite a common Aramaic (male) name back then.

[beefche]

thekabalist, do you know much about Jewish culture during the time of the Old Testament or the time of Jesus? There is a BYU professor, Richard Holzaphel (sp?), who was born Jewish and converted to LDS (not sure how old he was). I've heard him speak on several occasions about the culture during that time which helped significantly understand some of the deeper meanings of the New Testament.

[beefche]

We should have a new forum here. Instead of LDS gospel discussion, call it "Ask thekabalist" discussion.

[pam]

We should. I seriously find this fascinating.

[thekabalist]

thekabalist, do you know much about Jewish culture during the time of the Old Testament or the time of Jesus? There is a BYU professor, Richard Holzaphel (sp?), who was born Jewish and converted to LDS (not sure how old he was). I've heard him speak on several occasions about the culture during that time which helped significantly understand some of the deeper meanings of the New Testament.

I wouldn't claim to know as much as your professor but I can humbly try to be of service. :)