thekabalist - Marriage/Judaism


Zechariah
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[[Note: the other forum I was speaking of, was a completely different web site. Not this one. Just want to make that very clear.]]

In the other forum I had asked thekabalist about the marriage ceremony in Judaism. Since we were not able to continue there, I wanted to begin again here. These were the questions and answers we had up until the point we had to cease conversing:

I would be very interested in knowing more about the marriage ceremony as practiced in Judaism. I've seen it depicted in movies (though how accurately I don't know) and obviously it carries much in the way of meaning. So could you please explain a little something about how one comes to be engaged (if there are any certain customs) and then (if it is an appropriate topic of discussion) explain what takes place on the day of the marriage and then during the marriage ceremony itself, and what those various elements mean?

Thank you.

Be glad to answer this one. We can discuss it bit by bit as this is a really extensive topic.

It all starts with what we call in Judaism a soul-root. It essentially means that a male and a female soul have the same roots in heaven. They were once one as Adam and Eve were before they came into the world. In the words of a famous kabbalist:

"The goal of marriage is that the couple manifest in their earthly consciousness the existential oneness they found in their celestial soul-root. This is the essence of true love."

Therefore we believe that Jewish marriage is the process of finding your bashert. If you do and cultivate your union, then you will be one in the olam haba (world to come) just like Adam and Eve were married forever.

Marriage is composed of three moments: shidduch, kiddushin and nissuin. Namely, coming close, bethrotal and full marriage.

A religious Jew doesn't date because we are not allowed to become intimate with another man's wife. So we have the shidduch. A shidduch is kind of like a courtship. Usually you will go to an experienced person in your community and say that you wish to marry and ask for advice on whom. Normally you don't even have to bother much because they tend to introduce you to people naturally. But the part about asking others for advice is very important because the wise can give advice on whether you are compatible. The ladies will do the same thing.

Once a couple agrees to go on a shidduch they go out to talk. They can go out as many times as they wish in order to get to know each other. Then they make up their minds as to whether they want to get married or not. Nobody is forced into marriage. But nobody lays hands on each other until after marriage. They don't even hold hands.

Then we have the kiddushin which means to set apart. It's kind of like a bethrotal. In Judaism if you do the kiddushin you are officially married though you haven't really completed the process yet. But this means that you can only call off a bethrotal by getting a religious divorce.

Finally you have the nissuin which literally means "exaltation". The "exaltation" is the moment that the husband and the wife finally complete their union spiritually speaking.

Now some communities have both the kiddushin and the nissuin on the same day but they are different ceremonies in actuality.

I think this is a good start. I will post more on the ceremony later. If you have any questions feel free to ask!

b'shalom

Then this would indicate to me that in Judaism is found the belief that we existed in heaven, in some type of spiritual state, before being born into the physical world we know here. Would that correct?

Correct. We believe that the spirits of all mankind were created before the earth. This is why we have this:

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast the understanding. Who determined the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who stretched the line upon it? Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof, When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 38 (portion)

And this would indicate to me that the marriage union is meant to last forever, rather than for mortal life only. Would this also be correct?

That would be correct too.

I am not sure what you mean about another man's wife, could you please explain that?

Also, it sounds as if the "soul root" might indicate a previous acquaintance with one another. But when you discuss having two people introduced to one another it seems to me, not understanding this very well, that might make it harder to meet your "soul root."

Question one: Is it thought that man and wife may have made covenants with one another in the before life?

Question two: How does being introduced, or possibly matched with one another, affect or impact the meeting and joining of soul roots?

We found this very interesting, and are looking forward to learning more. :)

(thank you thekabalist)

Edited by Zechariah
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I find it interesting that another forum would not allow a conversation such as this. It's not trying to convert, it's not proselytizing. It's just explaining something in the Jewish tradition. I find it very interesting learning a little bit more.

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I find it interesting that another forum would not allow a conversation such as this. It's not trying to convert, it's not proselytizing. It's just explaining something in the Jewish tradition. I find it very interesting learning a little bit more.

I, too.

I've always enjoyed learning about the religious beliefs, rites, practices, and customs of others. I don't have to believe just as they, in order to appreciate and respect the beauty of the things they hold sacred.

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Originally Posted by RanMan

I am not sure what you mean about another man's wife, could you please explain that?

Also, it sounds as if the "soul root" might indicate a previous acquaintance with one another. But when you discuss having two people introduced to one another it seems to me, not understanding this very well, that might make it harder to meet your "soul root."

Question one: Is it thought that man and wife may have made covenants with one another in the before life?

Question two: How does being introduced, or possibly matched with one another, affect or impact the meeting and joining of soul roots?

Glad to be back to this topic here! In the last forum this was one of the topics in which I was accused of worshipping satan.

In answer to Ran's questions I think I may not have explained correctly how the shiduch takes place. It's not that we wait for others to tell us whom to meet. We are free to meet anyone we choose. However we habitually ask those more experienced if they believe the match would work. This is done so as to make the choice more rational.

We believe therefore that G-d will always find a way to put you in touch with your bashert.

Yes we could in a way say that we and our basherts have a covenant that goes back into the time when we existed only in spirit. Because we were created by G-d with the purpose of being one much like Adam and Eve.

What I mean by not touching another man's wife is the reason why religious Jews don't become intimate with each other before getting married. Because that someone you are becoming intimate with will eventually be someone else's husband or wife.

b'shalom!

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In answer to Ran's questions I think I may not have explained correctly how the shiduch takes place. It's not that we wait for others to tell us whom to meet. We are free to meet anyone we choose. However we habitually ask those more experienced if they believe the match would work. This is done so as to make the choice more rational.

In reading this I am reminded of the movie "Fiddler on the Roof" with the matchmaker lady they had in the village.

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I'm sure that if they decide to do a remake on that one they will change that to them accessing the Jewish matchmaking website. :D

It does exist but I prefer the old fashioned way. :)

That is funny..but in this day and age I'm sure soooo true. :)

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Glad to be back to this topic here! In the last forum this was one of the topics in which I was accused of worshipping satan.

In answer to Ran's questions I think I may not have explained correctly how the shiduch takes place. It's not that we wait for others to tell us whom to meet. We are free to meet anyone we choose. However we habitually ask those more experienced if they believe the match would work. This is done so as to make the choice more rational.

We believe therefore that G-d will always find a way to put you in touch with your bashert.

Yes we could in a way say that we and our basherts have a covenant that goes back into the time when we existed only in spirit. Because we were created by G-d with the purpose of being one much like Adam and Eve.

What I mean by not touching another man's wife is the reason why religious Jews don't become intimate with each other before getting married. Because that someone you are becoming intimate with will eventually be someone else's husband or wife.

b'shalom!

Thanks for the answers. I thought the "other man's wife" might have been along the same lines. But it sounds as if there are not specific arrangements made in the pre-life - correct me if I'm wrong.

In some cases, mine being one of them, promises are made to marry a specific individual in this life. I was just curious if there was a similar situation in the Jewish beliefs.

:)

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Thanks for the answers. I thought the "other man's wife" might have been along the same lines. But it sounds as if there are not specific arrangements made in the pre-life - correct me if I'm wrong.

In some cases, mine being one of them, promises are made to marry a specific individual in this life. I was just curious if there was a similar situation in the Jewish beliefs.

:)

Yes, you are correct. There are no previous arrangements made in Judaism for a marriage on earth, just the belief that you will find your soulmate.

I would be interested to hear more about your last comment. Do you mean you made promises to marry someone in a previous life?

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I would be interested to hear more about your last comment. Do you mean you made promises to marry someone in a previous life?

Yes.

LDS have what is known as a Patriartrical <sp?> Blessing. I received mine at 16. This is believed by us to be revelation given to us, through a Patriarch, from God. Mine indicated that I had promised a young lady that I would marry her, and that she was waiting for me here on Earth to fulfill that promise.

:)

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That's pretty wild RanMan. Welcome to lds.net buddy. You can relax and simply enjoy the conversation without the constant onslaught for a change.

My patriarchal blessing indicated that through prayer, I would select a wife who would be compatible with my religion and my vocation. Basically, leaving the door wide open. That said, I made an excellent choice. :)

Regards,

Vanhin

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  • 1 month later...

Yes.

LDS have what is known as a Patriartrical <sp?> Blessing. I received mine at 16. This is believed by us to be revelation given to us, through a Patriarch, from God. Mine indicated that I had promised a young lady that I would marry her, and that she was waiting for me here on Earth to fulfill that promise.

:)

Good hunting!

I know a around 25 year old VERY pretty girl.... looking stil looking...

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Good hunting!

I know a around 25 year old VERY pretty girl.... looking stil looking...

LOL. I'm not hunting anymore. I found a wonderful woman about 13 years ago and married her. However, this is my second wife and I don't know if I invalidated the promise of my Patriarchal Blessing by marring a non-member the first time.

Although, she seems ideally suited for me and I have a strong feeling that she is the young lady that is talked about in my Patriarchal Blessing.

:)

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