War of the Worlds

[Misshalfway]

But to say, "I hate [this] and I hate [that]" in regards to people? Disappointing to hear...

It is really disappointing to hear. I am first and foremost a BYU fan but the truth is I root for both schools when they aren't playing each other and I think both schools are wonderful institutions. But the rivalry stops being fun when fans and players act like this. And even though I think the Utes are guilty in this case, both schools are guilty of crossing the line over the years.

So much of the underlying contention has to do with religion....which is sad on one hand and really really tired on the other.

I actually understand Hall's feelings even though I disagree with how he expressed them. For the BYU coaches wife to get hit on the field after the game......It's just outrageous! (read that in the Trib yesterday) I wish Hall had expressed the same concerns but expressed them with less venom and more ....I hate to say it....but class. The behavior of these angry Ute fans is a huge black eye on the U, but this reaction certainly isn't going to make anything better. I would love to see the pres. of the UofU centure the fans. And it wouldn't surprise me if Hall had already been called into a few offices.

[john doe]

Obviously Utes.

:)

Actually, I didn't say that. What I said was that it wouldn't matter how few seats are in the Utes' stadium they would still have plenty of empty ones on gameday.

[john doe]

Max Hall has issued an apology, of sorts. He modified his comments to be directed only at the fans who denigrated him and his family both at the game and for the past year. He left his comments open for the ones who blew up a sex doll, wrote "Max Hall's mom' on it and passed it around their stadium, the ones who spit on, dumped beer on, spewed vulgarities at all game, and threatened his family to the point where they had to ask Security for an escort to their vehicle. The others he has no problem with.

[Just_A_Guy]

One ugly thing about that particular rivalry is that someone vandalized UCLA's bruin statue by pouring red and gold paint on it.

Par for the course at BYU, to the extent that before Rivalry Week the grounds crew is instructed to shrink-wrap every statue on campus (I was on the grounds crew and helped to do it one year).

[bytor2112]

But to say, "I hate [this] and I hate [that]" in regards to people? Disappointing to hear...

Oh thats okay...I hate Gator fans...nasty people:cool:

[pam]

Par for the course at BYU, to the extent that before Rivalry Week the grounds crew is instructed to shrink-wrap every statue on campus (I was on the grounds crew and helped to do it one year).

It's really sad that things come to that point.

[Snow]

I didn't say it was appropriate, I said he was right. These same fans had dumped beer on his family, as well as subjecting them to other indignities that only Ute fans rain down upon BYU fans, for no other reason than the fact that they wore a certain color shirt with a certain player's name on the back. The fact that the University of Utah not only allows that garbage to go on but encourages it, makes them partly responsible for the actions of their fans. The taunting, the obscenities screamed in their faces, the constant religious hate speech spewing from the fans' mouths, only sets them further apart as the scum of the sports world. I understand why he feels the way he does.

Bull.

Max was a whiney classless and boorish winner - a winner because BYU did better than Utah on one specific play.

Every school has moronic fans - even BYU. Max showed that is of the same low character as those he criticized... although someone with more than a gram of intelligence got to him and compelled him to revise his insults.

[john doe]

You are entitled to your opinion on the matter, no matter how wrong it is. I see it differently.

[Snow]

You are entitled to your opinion on the matter, no matter how wrong it is. I see it differently.

In what possible way am I wrong?

Did Max not whine like a classless boor?

Did he not lie in his apology when he claimed, falsely, that his remarks were not directed toward the entire Utah orginization and fans? It is a simple point of fact that his remarks were directed towards the entire orginazation and fans. He said so precisely and unequivocably and then later lied about it?

Was it the entire organization and fan population that acted atrociously towards him and his family last year or was it a handful of drunk idiots? Specifically how many people enrolled at or employed by the University of Utah threatened his family and made lewd jokes about his mother? 30,000 or none? What about the fans? Was it 40,000 Utah fans or a few morons?

As for the relative behavior of the atheletes - how many Utah players have been officially reprimanded for violation of the Mountain West Conference's sportmanship policy recently? Is it zero? Compare that to the three official reprimands of BYU players in the last 2 weeks.

It's a pity that Hall's family was apparently threatened last year but compared that to the Utah coach's wife who actually was assualted and battered by a BYU fan and suffered injuries as the result.

Please correct any factual errors of mine above.

[Misshalfway]

Hall had a right to be mad. But he did throw everyone under the bus.

Has anyone heard if the UofU made any sort of statement about the actions of its fans?

[john doe]

Snow, the assertion that Whittingham's wife was assaulted and battered by a BYU fan has not been confirmed. There are conflicting reports, and the people involved have not spoken about it. One of the reports claims that the scuffle in which she found herself was instigated by a Utah fan attempting to stop a BYU fan from taking pictures with his cell phone. Another report says that the same man approached a professional photographer and demanded he stop taking pictures as well, and the photographer filed a police report, which he later decided not to pursue.

As I have had time to digest the latest situation with this rivalry I would not mind if both schools decided to take a break from it for a few years, or possibly move it to another week of the year. The tension between these two schools has become intolerable. The rivalry has trickled down to the point where kids in grade school are being affected by it and are taunted, sometimes by their teachers, depending on what color of shirt they wear to school.

[Misshalfway]

I just read about that. In the first article I read, I thought it had said it was the BYU coaches wife so I stand corrected on that. But I couldn't tell either if she had actually been targeted or if she was just in the wrong place. She isn't making a statement to police. She prolly just caught an unintentional elbow. Not that this makes BYU fans look any better.

I guess the MWC gave Hall a reprimand. That seems like the right thing.

Maybe you are right, JD. Maybe the two schools should take a break. Or at least kiss and make up before next year.

[Moksha]

Columnist Paul Rolly wrote an ode to Max Hall:

Rolly: An ode to Max Hall - Salt Lake Tribune

[Moksha]

Snow, the assertion that Whittingham's wife was assaulted and battered by a BYU fan has not been confirmed.

Attacker being pulled away from causing further assault on Mrs. Whittingham

MWC reprimands Hall; photos show altercation - Salt Lake Tribune

[Snow]

Snow, the assertion that Whittingham's wife was assaulted and battered by a BYU fan has not been confirmed. There are conflicting reports, and the people involved have not spoken about it. One of the reports claims that the scuffle in which she found herself was instigated by a Utah fan attempting to stop a BYU fan from taking pictures with his cell phone. Another report says that the same man approached a professional photographer and demanded he stop taking pictures as well, and the photographer filed a police report, which he later decided not to pursue.

You're right. It has not been confirmed and I am merely going my photograph's showing a BYU fan grabbing her and less violent people present trying to restrain him.

As I have had time to digest the latest situation with this rivalry I would not mind if both schools decided to take a break from it for a few years, or possibly move it to another week of the year. The tension between these two schools has become intolerable. The rivalry has trickled down to the point where kids in grade school are being affected by it and are taunted, sometimes by their teachers, depending on what color of shirt they wear to school.

Heck no. It's a great rivalry, one of the better ones in the country. When morons like the Utah fans last year or Max Hall this year do moronic things, they should be held accountable for their behavior but the rivalry itself is a great thing - I'd like to see it continue even if BYU and Utah eventually wind up in separate conferences (there is talk of Utah becoming part of the PAC-10 and BYU not). The games I'd like to see eliminated are the Utah State games - not because it's not a decent rivalry but because Utah State games harm BYU and Utah rankings even if they win.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Snow

[john doe]

It is difficult to tell what exactly is going on in that picture. It appears there is some kind of struggle. Whether the man in the picture is an aggressor or whether he is trying to free himself from those who are attempting to hold him and she just happens to be caught up in the flailing of the melee is hard to tell. A video or more pictures of the even would be more helpful to determine what is going on. She is not facing him, so it appears to me that whatever is going on she does not see it coming.

Without reading what Rolly wrote in his rare moment of semi-lucidity, I'll just imagine a self-righteous Ute homer who claims to be a political writer adding fuel to a (hopefully) dying fire.

[Snow]

Rolly may be a Ute homer (and funny too in this case) but I am not. I'm a huge fan of BYU and of Utah. For every trip I make to the Utah campus, I make three or more to BYU's. My family has an equal number of degrees from both institutions. Over the past 4 years I've been to an equal number of sporting events at both. I've been attending games at both for over 25 years and so know from long experience that BYU fans have no moral superiority over Utah's except to say that Utah's fringe low-lifes are offset by BYU's fringe self-righteous hypocrites.

As for it dying down - I can accept that Hall, being a dumb kid, foolishly acted like a dumb kid in the heat of the moment, but lying about it later in his pseudo apology sure didn't help his cause.

[goofball]

You're right. It has not been confirmed and I am merely going my photograph's showing a BYU fan grabbing her and less violent people present trying to restrain him.

See Unholy war rages on after final play

as police confirmed Whittingham's wife was not involved or hit as previously reported. Amazing what can get in print without clarification.

For a lighter side has anyone seen the videos of BYU and Hitler on youtube?

Edited December 2, 2009 by goofball
Clarification

[pam]

At least these two teams (as far as I know) haven't resorted to breaking store front windows, looting, overturning and setting cars on fire.

[Snow]

See Unholy war rages on after final play

as police confirmed Whittingham's wife was not involved or hit as previously reported. Amazing what can get in print without clarification.

"No one involved Whittingham's family in any way..." (from your link)

Multiple newspapers, including the Church owned newspapers reported multiple accounts that the coaches wife was involved and suffered a split lip and pictures show a BYU fan latching onto her arm. I guess it depends on who you choose to believe.

[Snow]

As for it dying down - I can accept that Hall, being a dumb kid, foolishly acted like a dumb kid in the heat of the moment, but lying about it later in his pseudo apology sure didn't help his cause.

I just watched the Max Hall interview on video and I have to retract what I said earlier. Hall wasn't simply reacting "in the heat of the moment." He was calm, collected, calculated and even rehearsed in his diatribe towards Utah, its fans, its football program, and the entire organization.

Too bad he bailed out of his mission 17 months early. Had he completed his service, he undoubtedly would have matured like those that do (finish).

[john doe]

The original account I heard was that Whittingham's mother was the one with the split lip. I haven't heard anything about that lately, so it may be false. As for the BYU/Hitler video, wasn't that from last year's game? It was hilarious, I have it linked on my facebook account.

[Moksha]

She is not facing him, so it appears to me that whatever is going on she does not see it coming.

Could be that the act of restraining him shifted his position from the initial attack. A photo from moments later shows Mrs. Whittingham and her young daughter trying to move out of harms way to the viewers left.

[Moksha]

Here is an interesting article for Deseret News:

Deseret News | Why is Y. ignoring Hall's spew of hatred?

.

[Snow]

Here is an interesting article for Deseret News:

Deseret News | Why is Y. ignoring Hall's spew of hatred?

.

Interesting point. At least publicly BYU seems to find Halls ugliness acceptable.

Drinking would have gotten him sanctioned. Is hating your fellow man more righteous than a glass of red wine?