Help requested: BoM sayings

[thekabalist]

Hi forum

I would like your help in finding important proverbial BoM sayings. I would like to compare them with ancient israelite tradition.

Thank you! :)

b'shalom!

[pam]

2 Nephi 15:20

20 Wo unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Is that what you had in mind? This is a scripture that comes up quite often in our discussions.

[thekabalist]

2 Nephi 15:20

20 Wo unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Is that what you had in mind? This is a scripture that comes up quite often in our discussions.

In a way yes. But this quote in particular is just like Isaiah 5:20. I was looking for something specific from the BoM.

[Wingnut]

Contention is of the devil. (3 Nephi 11:29)

Wickedness never was happiness. (Alma 41:10)

I will go and do... (1 Nephi 3:7)

[pam]

Okay I understand. Yes 2 Nephi really does discuss Isaiah. Let me think on this one.

[Wingnut]

Opposition in all things. (2 Nephi 2:11)

Have you received His image in your countenance? (Alma 5)

Weaknesses shall become strengths. (Ether 12:27)

You receive no witness until after the trial of your faith. (Ether 12:6)

By grace we are saved after all we can do. (2 Nephi 25:23)

Feast upon the words of Christ. (2 Nephi 32:3)

[skalenfehl]

While my offering bears little to no relevance to proverbs, the Book of Mormon displays a lot of Chiasmus, which you'll find plentiful in the Bible. You may well find proverbial lines in the following reference:

Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon: Possible Evidence of Authenticity

[pam]

Opposition in all things. (2 Nephi 2:11)

Have you received His image in your countenance? (Alma 5)

Weaknesses shall become strengths. (Ether 12:27)

You receive no witness until after the trial of your faith. (Ether 12:6)

By grace we are saved after all we can do. (2 Nephi 25:23)

Feast upon the words of Christ. (2 Nephi 32:3)

I think you went to the same website I went to when I was searching.

[Moksha]

A Cumom in the hand is worth two Cureloms in the bush.

[talisyn]

TK, a much easier way to find what you're looking for is to just read it

[thekabalist]

TK, a much easier way to find what you're looking for is to just read it

I beg to differ. I think reading and searching for specific information are very different things and the latter takes a lot more time. This is why I thought I could use a hand or to as I believe everyone would be interested in case it's possible to find corresponding material within ancient israelite proverbs.

b'shalom!

[Wingnut]

I think you went to the same website I went to when I was searching.

Everything I posted were things I thought of off the top of my head. I only looked them up to provide references.

[Snow]

Fools mock, but they shall mourn.

[Justice]

This block of scriptures seems to have many similarities to the things Moses offered and was to the children of Israel (leading them from bondage through the wildreness to the promised land, and lifting the brazen serpent that if they would look they would live, etc.).

I'd appreciate your comments of whatever you find interesting in these verses about the Liahona. I'm especially interested in the "small means" and "easy" parts and how they might fit into ancient Hebrew literary styles.

Alma 37:

38 And now, my son, I have somewhat to say concerning the thing which our fathers call a ball, or director—or our fathers called it Liahona, which is, being interpreted, a compass; and the Lord prepared it.

39 And behold, there cannot any man work after the manner of so curious a workmanship. And behold, it was prepared to show unto our fathers the course which they should travel in the wilderness.

40 And it did work for them according to their faith in God; therefore, if they had faith to believe that God could cause that those spindles should point the way they should go, behold, it was done; therefore they had this miracle, and also many other miracles wrought by the power of God, day by day.

41 Nevertheless, because those miracles were worked by small means it did show unto them marvelous works. They were slothful, and forgot to exercise their faith and diligence and then those marvelous works ceased, and they did not progress in their journey;

42 Therefore, they tarried in the wilderness, or did not travel a direct course, and were afflicted with hunger and thirst, because of their transgressions.

43 And now, my son, I would that ye should understand that these things are not without a shadow; for as our fathers were slothful to give heed to this compass (now these things were temporal) they did not prosper; even so it is with things which are spiritual.

44 For behold, it is as easy to give heed to the word of Christ, which will point to you a straight course to eternal bliss, as it was for our fathers to give heed to this compass, which would point unto them a straight course to the promised land.

45 And now I say, is there not a type in this thing? For just as surely as this director did bring our fathers, by following its course, to the promised land, shall the words of Christ, if we follow their course, carry us beyond this vale of sorrow into a far better land of promise.

46 O my son, do not let us be slothful because of the easiness of the way; for so was it with our fathers; for so was it prepared for them, that if they would look they might live; even so it is with us. The way is prepared, and if we will look we may live forever.

[Maxel]

thekabalist, I read somewhere on another one of your posts that Jewish tradition states that the Hebrew language was supposed to be the "pure" language. I ran across the following the other day, and thought you might find it interesting.

From the book of Mormon, chapter 9, verses 32-33:

32 And now, behold, we have written this record [the Golden Plates] according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech.

33 And if our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record.

Not a 'saying' per se, but it seems to bear a resemblance to the aforementioned tradition of Hebrew being a more pure language.

[Vort]

Every man that is cursed brings upon himself his own condemnation.

Every man receiveth wages of him whom he listeth to obey.

[thekabalist]

This is great guys but could you also include the references?

Thanks! :)

[Vort]

This is great guys but could you also include the references?

Thanks! :)

Alma 3:19 - Now I would that ye should see that they brought upon themselves the curse; and even so doth every man that is cursed bring upon himself his own condemnation.

Alma 3:27 - For every man receiveth wages of him whom he listeth to obey, and this according to the spirit of prophecy; therefore let it be according to the truth.

Snow's contribution:

Ether 12:26 - Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek...

I would also add:

Ether 12:27 - I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

[Vanhin]

TK, a much easier way to find what you're looking for is to just read it

And FYI check out this thread -> http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27891-little-jewish-commentary-please-tell-me-what-you-think.html :)

Regards,

Vanhin

[thekabalist]

Anaylisis of BoM Proverbs:

"Wickedness never was happiness." (Alma 41:10)

Indeed this is a Jewish idea. Happiness derives from justice. Without justice there is no happiness. This can be seen in the Talmud as well:

"When hedonists multiplied, justice became perverted, conduct deteriorated and there is no satisfaction in the world... and happiness ceased." (b. Sotah 47)

Have you received His image in your countenance? (Alma 5)

Another typical Jewish idea. The tzaddik (righteous one) reflects upon his face the Shechinah (G-d's presence). To see the face of a tzaddik is to see the Shechinah This can be seen from the Talmud:

"Abaye said: The world must contain not less than thirty-six righteous men in each generation who are vouchsafed [the sight of] the Shechinah [G-d's Presence]'s countenance." (b. Sanhedrin 97b)

"And I will make you go upright... What does this mean? — R. Samuel b. Nahmani said: To give a comely countenance to scholars." (b. Sanhedrin 100a)

You receive no witness until after the trial of your faith. (Ether 12:6)

Judaism also believes that a trial is given so as to provide witness before G-d and men. Thus says the Talmud about Abraham our father:

"So also did the Holy One, blessed be He, say unto Abraham, 'I have tested thee with many trials and thou didst withstand all. Now, be firm, for My sake in this trial, that men may not say, there was no reality in the earlier ones."

(b. Sanhedrin 89b)

Feast upon the words of Christ. (2 Nephi 32:3)

This too is a Jewish idea. The study of the words of G-d are compared to feasting. Thus can be seen in the Talmud:

"But he that is of a merry heart hath a continuous feast: this refers to students of the Mishnah." (b. Sanhedrin 100b)

Ether 12:26 - Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek...

This idea also finds echo within Judaism as we believe that graceful lovingkindess is reserved unto the meek and they will inherit the world to come. To Judaism meekness is more important than holiness. The Talmud says:

"Who is destined for the world to come? He who is meek, humble, stooping on entering and on going out, and a constant student of the Torah without claiming merit therefor."

(b. Sanhedrin 88b)

"if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record." (Mormon 9:33)

This is a crucial concept within Judaism. Hebrew is considered the perfect language because it's the language that G-d used for creation and it is in Hebrew that He commands worship from Israel. This can be seen in the midrashic account of Jubilees:

"'Open his mouth and his ears, that he may hear and speak with his mouth, with the language which has been revealed'; for it had ceased from the mouths of all the children of men from the day of the overthrow (of Babel). And I opened his mouth, and his ears and his lips, and I began to speak with him in Hebrew in the tongue of the creation." (Jubilees 12:15-27)

If more are posted, more will be looked into. :)

[Justice]

How about mine about the Liahona? (post #13 in this thread)

[Wingnut]

I thought of another one today. It's a phrase not unique to the Book of Mormon, but found there -- "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die." (Though BYU students seem to think it says "eat, drink, and be married, for tomorrow we die.":eek:) (2 Nephi 28:7-8)

[Justice]

I just wanted to get his take on it, :)

[The_Seeker]

Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy. -- 2 Nephi 2:25

[Vanhin]

Ether 12:26 - Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek...

This idea also finds echo within Judaism as we believe that graceful lovingkindess is reserved unto the meek and they will inherit the world to come. To Judaism meekness is more important than holiness. The Talmud says:

"Who is destined for the world to come? He who is meek, humble, stooping on entering and on going out, and a constant student of the Torah without claiming merit therefor."

(b. Sanhedrin 88b)

Very nice. This is also reinforced by the teachings of the Redeemer during His ministry.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. (Matt. 5:5, 3 Ne. 12:5)

Regards,

Vanhin