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Oh....obesity...sorry. I thought you were talking about "fat" people....as your previous quote stated.

I don't mean the medical definition of obesity. I mean people who are more than a few pounds overweight -- the normal idea of "fat folks". For that matter, anyone who is five pounds overweight (or underweight) is at that weight due to eating habits.

If eating habits have nothing to do with being overweight, as you seem to believe, can you explain how else someone who doesn't eat anything, or who eats only exactly as much as he burns off in metabolic activity, can ever possibly become fat?

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I don't mean the medical definition of obesity. I mean people who are more than a few pounds overweight -- the normal idea of "fat folks". For that matter, anyone who is five pounds overweight (or underweight) is at that weight due to eating habits.

If eating habits have nothing to do with being overweight, as you seem to believe, can you explain how else someone who doesn't eat anything, or who eats only exactly as much as he burns off in metabolic activity, can ever possibly become fat?

Thyroid disease?

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Sure about that? Your saying that genetics or illness has nothing to do with it....ever?

Yes, I am sure. Genetics or illness might very possibly influence obesity, and it is even possible that for some very few people, the alternative to obesity would be even more severe disability or death. Nevertheless, the statement is true as written.

Oh....obesity...sorry. I thought you were talking about "fat" people....as your previous quote stated.

Bytor, Vort's statement is true - for obese or fat people. Genetics or illness can slow down metabolism which causes the food intake to be more than the energy outlay...

The solution is not just to stop eating - it is also to produce energy. That is why you always hear the experts say - Diet and Exercise.

But we're digressing. The original point was that people who overeat are also breaking the WOW. And I can say Amen to that. That included my gorge-fest with an entire pack of Milano double dark chocolate cookies last night. Nestea iced-tea is my "favoritest" drink of all time. I occassionally slip up and drink a glass or two or three. I find it funny that my husband gives me the evil-eye when I take a sip of iced-tea yet doesn't notice when I down an entire package of Milanos. Yea yea, letter versus spirit... still funny though.

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The original point was that people who overeat are also breaking the WOW.

That may have been the original point, but it was also implied (if not outright stated) that all fat people overeat. I heard a woman in a Sunday School class earlier this year comment during a Word of Wisdom lesson that "nobody's perfect -- just look at the Brethren. How many of them are overweight? How many of them have eating problems? I mean, look at President Monson, he's got onset diabetes."

She was honestly trying to say that President Monson doesn't obey the Word of Wisdom because he's overweight and has developed diabetes in his old age, which *gasp* happens to a lot of old people, and *gasp* is also hereditary.

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How can thyroid disease cause a person who eats 1500 Calories of food and expends 1500 Calories in metabolic activity to magically become fat?

Thyroid disease causes the metabolism and other hormones in the body to not work properly.

Another non-food related cause for weight gain is medication side effects.

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Bytor, Vort's statement is true - for obese or fat people. Genetics or illness can slow down metabolism which causes the food intake to be more than the energy outlay...

Yes....but....a normal healthy diet with an appropriate amount of calories consumed and someone can still appear to be "fat". I am a gym rat....an exercise nut, and I know some ladies that teach aerobics and are REALLY fit....very cardio fit...BUT, someone might still say they were fat. Irregularly proportioned body, larger hips and backside, etc. But fit and very healthy eaters.

Perhaps, we need to define "fat". Fat as in unhealthy or fat as in less than "ideal". And whose ideal?

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Yes....but....a normal healthy diet with an appropriate amount of calories consumed and someone can still appear to be "fat". I am a gym rat....an exercise nut, and I know some ladies that teach aerobics and are REALLY fit....very cardio fit...BUT, someone might still say they were fat. Irregularly proportioned body, larger hips and backside, etc. But fit and very healthy eaters.

I had friends that used to call what you're describing as "fit-fat", which, is basically someone that is in excellent physical condition but by society's standards appear overweight. If you compared these aerobic instructors to someone like Jessica Alba, I'm betting most people would agree that Alba is the perfect build and is an image of a healthy body. But the likely truth is, Alba is underweight for her height and these aerobic ladies are the ideal weights for their heights. You've made an interesting point there.

Back to OP. I agree with, Rachelle. It isn't really your concern or your business. If your parents have allowed your brother to make this decision all his own -- you shouldn't get involved.

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Here's a website that just came across that lists numerous things that can cause obesity.

Obesity - WrongDiagnosis.com

I'm not trying to excuse the millions that just plain overeat (I'm one of them, except I do have sleep apnea). Actually I eat very little, just ALL the wrong things. Soda, unfortunately is a huge vice of mine.

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Folks, you appear to be missing the point completely.

People gain weight because they eat stuff. If they don't eat, they don't gain weight.

Period. (That's "full stop" for you Brits.)

No exceptions.

This is true, even if they have diabetes, a thyroid condition, sleep apnea, and a nagging boss.

So if you see someone who is 200 pounds overweight (or 20 pounds, or 2 pounds), then you know beyond all doubt that those 200 (20, 2) pounds entered that person's body through his or her mouth.

That is the only possibility.

Ergo: No eaty food, no gainy weight.

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Or...no eaty food...no continue living. Me thinks....respectfully, that your assertions are not scientifically sound.

:lol: Okay, whatever. If you want to think you can gain weight in some manner other than eating food, then good luck with that theory.

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I don't think anyone is saying you don't gain weight by not eating. I think what some are trying to point out, that even if eating properly, proper calories, even the proper exercise, there may be medical conditions that unfortunately help to exacerbate weight gain.

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:lol: Okay, whatever. If you want to think you can gain weight in some manner other than eating food, then good luck with that theory.

No...I think you can appear fat or gain weight, while eating a healthy diet and appropriate calorie count...because of other factors than JUST eating too much. Am I missing something here?

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No...I think you can appear fat or gain weight, while eating a healthy diet and appropriate calorie count...because of other factors than JUST eating too much. Am I missing something here?

I think you probably are missing something, yes. But then, you may also be right.

Is it possible for someone to eat a healthy selection of food that still leaves him malnourished, and yet still gain weight? If this is possible, then I concur with your scenario. Otherwise, it is clearly false.

By definition, a "healthy" amount of food is the amount required for proper and healthy functioning of the body. Any less than this amount is "too little food", and will lead to ill health. You are suggesting that it is possible to eat "too little food" (so that you are malnourished) and yet still gain weight; otherwise, the overweight person has but to cut his food consumption.

I believe that, at most, only a tiny percentage of people are actually required to eat themselves into fatness in order to remain properly nourished. I suspect that tiny percentage is actually zero, but I concede that there may be the very rare individual who simply cannot get proper nourishment from a reasonable amount of food, and therefore must eat until he is obese to get that nourishment. But certainly for the 99.999% of us who are fat, our problem is not diabetes or thyroid whatever. Our problem is that we eat too darn much.

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Yes, I am sure. Genetics or illness might very possibly influence obesity, and it is even possible that for some very few people, the alternative to obesity would be even more severe disability or death. Nevertheless, the statement is true as written.

Be kind! Obviously VORT isn't familiar with the many medical issues that create obesity, beyond the obvious... eating more than the system requires.. If that be the case, then perhaps she will take this opportunity to become enlightened on a subject that it appears she is deficient in.:o

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I don't think anyone is saying you don't gain weight by not eating. I think what some are trying to point out, that even if eating properly, proper calories, even the proper exercise, there may be medical conditions that unfortunately help to exacerbate weight gain.

Again, this is so rare as to almost not be worth discussing.

I have diabetes. It's adult onset, I was considerably overweight and my mother had diabetes too, so that's another strike.

My point is that I got control of my blood sugar by dieting, and losing weight. My weight was causing my diabetes. I chose to be sick. I suppose there is the rare case where diabetes causes weight gain (but I doubt it), the correlation in diabetics is that being fat causes diabetes.

There are certain illnesses where excessive water can accumilate in the body etc etc, but that's not true obesity.

I have personally never known anyone who was fat because they had some disease. Like I say, it's really rare. Don't try to justify your own fatness by saying you can't help it. I cry Bull:rolleyes:.

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You chose to be sick? Or you got sick as a consequence of your choices?

I'm not sure it's a meaningful distinction. We tell our children, "You can choose your actions, but you can't choose the consequences of your actions." We could equally well tell them, "When you choose your actions, you are choosing the consequences of those actions."

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You chose to be sick? Or you got sick as a consequence of your choices?

Yes, I did. I didn't realize it at first, but in reality it was true. I'll always be diabetic, but through weight loss and eating correctly, it's very much under control. I don't currently take any medication, because my blood sugar is normal.:)

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I'm not sure it's a meaningful distinction. We tell our children, "You can choose your actions, but you can't choose the consequences of your actions." We could equally well tell them, "When you choose your actions, you are choosing the consequences of those actions."

You're absolutely correct.;)

" There is a law irrevocably decreed in heaven........................":eek:

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Let's see... there is Thyroid disease, tumors (dependent on where they are located), treatments for other disorders that cause uncontrollable weight gain, and at least twelve or more other common factors and conditions that create an inability to control ones weight, none of which are "rare". Several conditions are caused by medicines. Type 2 (adult onset) diabetes is caused by a combination of factors one of which is weight gain. Juvenile diabetes is not caused by excessive weight gain.

Congratulations on your successful ability to realize that you had a problem and your choice to try to control it. Others are not so fortunate. Perhaps you should have read and comprehended the WOW sooner.

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