Jesus in the Garden

[lattelady]

I hope that some will be willing to teach me, from the LDS canon of scripture, about the LDS belief in the atonement--specifically the teaching that the atonement for sin happened in the Garden of Gethsemane.

Thanks in advance!

Lattelady

[Flyonthewall]

Here is a link to an article by Bruce R. McConkie, a member of the Quorom of the Twelve Apostles:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Purifying Power of Gethsemane

And here is a link to the Atonement as explained on LDS.org:

Atonement of Jesus Christ

be sure to read the "additional information" link.

[OneEternalSonata]

"We know that in some way, incomprehensible to us, his suffering satisfied the demands of justice, ransomed penitent souls from the pains and penalties of sin, and made mercy available to those who believe in his holy name."

"...while he was hanging on the cross for another three hours, from noon to 3:00 p.m., all the infinite agonies and merciless pains of Gethsemane recurred."

"And now, as pertaining to this perfect atonement, wrought by the shedding of the blood of God—I testify that it took place in Gethsemane and at Golgotha[Calvary]..."

These quotes are from Elder McConkie's talk. I feel they speak to your question. :)

[lattelady]

Thankyou for your posts--I appreciate your response.

I was wondering though, if you could include specific scripture from your canon (those scriptures you hold to doctrinally). I have heard of this teaching--"The atonement for sin took place in the Garden of Gethsemane", but I am seeking references as to where it was first taught.

[Flyonthewall]

D&C 19 might be what you are looking for:

Doctrine and Covenants 19

1 I am Alpha and Omega, Christ the Lord; yea, even I am he, the beginning and the end, the Redeemer of the world.

2 I, having accomplished and finished the will of him whose I am, even the Father, concerning me—having done this that I might subdue all things unto myself—

3 Retaining all power, even to the destroying of Satan and his works at the end of the world, and the last great day of judgment, which I shall pass upon the inhabitants thereof, judging every man according to his works and the deeds which he hath done.

4 And surely every man must repent or suffer, for I, God, am endless.

5 Wherefore, I revoke not the judgments which I shall pass, but woes shall go forth, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth, yea, to those who are found on my left hand.

6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.

8 Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.

9 I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest.

10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—

11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.

12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment.

13 Wherefore, I command you to repent, and keep the commandments which you have received by the hand of my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., in my name;

14 And it is by my almighty power that you have received them;

15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.

16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit.

21 And I command you that you preach naught but repentance, and show not these things unto the world until it is wisdom in me.

...

[lattelady]

Thanks, Flyonthewall. I'm not sure that these verses confirm that the atonement for sin/shedding of blood was done in the Garden. I know that Jesus suffered there...with His foreknowledge, He could forsee EVERYTHING that He was about to go through. In His humanness, He prayed that God might take the cup of suffering from Him. And He was in such agony over what was to come that He had blood coming from His pores! I just wonder why He would've even had to go to the Cross if the atonement was already taken care of in the Garden?

[bytor2112]

Thanks, Flyonthewall. I'm not sure that these verses confirm that the atonement for sin/shedding of blood was done in the Garden. I know that Jesus suffered there...with His foreknowledge, He could forsee EVERYTHING that He was about to go through. In His humanness, He prayed that God might take the cup of suffering from Him. And He was in such agony over what was to come that He had blood coming from His pores! I just wonder why He would've even had to go to the Cross if the atonement was already taken care of in the Garden?

The Savior's death on the cross is not insignificant to us. Surely he suffered unimaginable agony.....BUT, the sufferings on the cross cannot compare to the sufferings he endured in Gethsemane. There he did what ONLY God could do and that was to take upon him the sins of all mankind.

Here is an interesting quote from Jeffrey Holland (Apostle):

Of course others among the believers had their difficult moments as well. Following the Last Supper, Jesus left Peter, James, and John to wait while He ventured into the Garden of Gethsemane alone. Falling on His face in prayer, “sorrowful … unto death,”8 the record says, His sweat came as great drops of blood9 as He pled with the Father to let this crushing, brutal cup pass from Him. But, of course, it could not pass. Returning from such anguished prayer, He found His three chief disciples asleep, prompting Him to ask, “Could ye not watch with me one hour?”10 So it happens two more times until on His third return He says compassionately, “Sleep on now, and take your rest,”11 though there would be no rest for Him.

Later, after Jesus’s arrest and appearance at trial, Peter, accused of knowing Jesus and being one of His confidants, denies that accusation not once but three times. We don’t know all that was going on here, nor do we know of protective counsel which the Savior may have given to His Apostles privately,12 but we do know Jesus was aware that even these precious ones would not stand with Him in the end, and He had warned Peter accordingly.13 Then, with the crowing of the cock, “the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord. … And [he] went out, and wept bitterly.”14

Thus, of divine necessity, the supporting circle around Jesus gets smaller and smaller and smaller, giving significance to Matthew’s words: “All the disciples

him, and fled.”15 Peter stayed near enough to be recognized and confronted. John stood at the foot of the cross with Jesus’s mother. Especially and always the blessed women in the Savior’s life stayed as close to Him as they could. But essentially His lonely journey back to His Father continued without comfort or companionship.

Now I speak very carefully, even reverently, of what may have been the most difficult moment in all of this solitary journey to Atonement. I speak of those final moments for which Jesus must have been prepared intellectually and physically but which He may not have fully anticipated emotionally and spiritually—that concluding descent into the paralyzing despair of divine withdrawal when He cries in ultimate loneliness, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”16

The loss of mortal support He had anticipated, but apparently He had not comprehended this. Had He not said to His disciples, “Behold, the hour … is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me” and “The Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him”?17

With all the conviction of my soul I testify that He did please His Father perfectly and that a perfect Father did not forsake His Son in that hour. Indeed, it is my personal belief that in all of Christ’s mortal ministry the Father may never have been closer to His Son than in these agonizing final moments of suffering. Nevertheless, that the supreme sacrifice of His Son might be as complete as it was voluntary and solitary, the Father briefly withdrew from Jesus the comfort of His Spirit, the support of His personal presence. It was required, indeed it was central to the significance of the Atonement, that this perfect Son who had never spoken ill nor done wrong nor touched an unclean thing had to know how the rest of humankind—us, all of us—would feel when we did commit such sins. For His Atonement to be infinite and eternal, He had to feel what it was like to die not only physically but spiritually, to sense what it was like to have the divine Spirit withdraw, leaving one feeling totally, abjectly, hopelessly alone.

But Jesus held on. He pressed on. The goodness in Him allowed faith to triumph even in a state of complete anguish. The trust He lived by told Him in spite of His feelings that divine compassion is never absent, that God is always faithful, that He never flees nor fails us. When the uttermost farthing had then been paid, when Christ’s determination to be faithful was as obvious as it was utterly invincible, finally and mercifully, it was “finished.”18 Against all odds and with none to help or uphold Him, Jesus of Nazareth, the living Son of the living God, restored physical life where death had held sway and brought joyful, spiritual redemption out of sin, hellish darkness, and despair. With faith in the God He knew was there, He could say in triumph, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.”19

[Flyonthewall]

As I see it, Christ is stating that He suffered these things so that those that repent do not have to(atonement/paid the price of sin), and those that do not repent will have to suffer even as He did, which caused Him to bleed from every pore and suffer both body and spirit, and would that He did not have to drink from that bitter cup. The cross was yet to come, and His suffering was not over, but the suffering that caused Him to bleed from every pore, and not want to drink the cup, was in the garden.

[lattelady]

Thanks, Bytor2112; I didn't say that the LDS church thought Jesus' death on the cross was insignificant. I hope you didn't think that's what I meant. I appreciate the quote you wrote--I still am trying to find scripture that teaches Jesus took our sins upon Himself in the Garden.

[lattelady]

Flyonthewall,

I agree that He suffered greatly in the Garden. The physical response He had to the anticipation of the Cross was proof that He was suffering. So was the prayer He prayed, "if it is possible, take this cup from me."

I noticed, as I was studying, that even the Book of Mormon seems to teach that it was upon the cross that He atoned for our sins.

"And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world." 1 Nephi 11:33

[Flyonthewall]

Yes, both parts are necessary. The suffering in the gardenfor the most part, was for the sins of the world, and the suffering on the cross and eventual death and resurrection were all part of the atonement. The Atonement was not complete until the resurrection.

I am not saying that He did not suffer on the cross, or that His suffering on the cross was not also part of the payment for sin, but according to the verse that I cited, it is the suffering in the garden that Jesus points to that was the worst of it, and the type of suffering those that do not repent will experience.

[Flyonthewall]

I found this too:

LDS.org - Liahona Article - From the Garden to the Empty Tomb

This has several past church presidents as well as James E. Talmage, author of Jesus The Christ, as listing D&C 19 as the scriptural reference to the suffering in the garden as when He took upon Him the sins of the world.

The atonement spanned several places, and simply speaking, He suffered in the garden, died on the cross, and was resurrected from the tomb. Each piece was needed, the atonement would not have been complete without any one of the pieces.

[lattelady]

Flyonthewall,

Thanks, again. The time you've taken to teach me is appreciated. I hope you understand that I'm not trying to be obstinate, but I'm still having a hard time...

I've been told MANY times on this forum that I cannot use quotes from Prophets, church presidents, or Apostles to support doctrine--I must use the canon of scripture that the LDS church agrees is scripture. Is the D&C reference you posted the only one that the prophets you've mentioned expound on?

Again, I'm not trying to be irritating. I do thank you for your posts, for being kind and for helping me understand.

Lattelady

[bytor2112]

I found this too:

LDS.org - Liahona Article - From the Garden to the Empty Tomb

This has several past church presidents as well as James E. Talmage, author of Jesus The Christ, as listing D&C 19 as the scriptural reference to the suffering in the garden as when He took upon Him the sins of the world.

The atonement spanned several places, and simply speaking, He suffered in the garden, died on the cross, and was resurrected from the tomb. Each piece was needed, the atonement would not have been complete without any one of the pieces.

or as Elder McConkie phrases it:

In some way, incomprehensible to us, Gethsemane, the cross, and the empty tomb join into one grand and eternal drama, in the course of which Jesus abolishes death, and out of which comes immortality for all and eternal life for the righteous.36

It should be noted that Christ not only bore the sins of all humankind, but, he also bore ALL of our sickness, sorrows and sufferings. This HE did so that HE might know how to succor HIS people and this occurred in the Garden.

[Prodigal_Son]

As was alluded to, the Atonement need not (and perhaps should not) be fractionalized by dates and locations.

The fact of the matter is that the Atonement began (insofar as we're limiting ourselves to Christ's mortal ministry) with Mary's immaculate conception, was readied throughout a sinless life, and culminated in the events from the Garden to the Resurrection.

Had Christ not been a literal Son of God, as prophesied, it could not have happened. Had not Christ been perfect, as prophesied, it could not have happened. Had not Christ suffered in the Garden, as prophesied, it could not have happened. Had not Christ been crucified, as prophesied, it could not have happened. Had not Christ been resurrected, as prophesied, it could not have happened.

The demands of justice required all these components in order to render the Savior's sacrifice efficacious. And, therefore, the Atonement was not one isolated experience - whether one leans towards the Garden or the Cross.

[Flyonthewall]

Yes, I linked to Elder McConkie's article in my first reply...He has such a better way with words than I do...:)

[lattelady]

Prodigal_Son,

My request is to have some scripture as a basis for the teaching of the atonement being done in the Garden. I believe it is important to my faith, that I can take God at His Word. I find scripture that teaches Christ's atoning work for my sin, and the sins of the world, took place on a cross (Like Colossians 1:20 "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven." or Colossians 2:13&14--"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"

I'm trying to find scripture that would teach an addition to that (that sins were washed clean in the Garden), and I haven't been able to.

[Kishkumen_Called]

The best answer I can find to your question is Matt. 26:36 & Mark 14: 32. Mark 14:34 speaks to His suffering. I would venture that the rest of our understanding and belief is from latter-day prophets/revelation. You're right - the scriptures are thin in this area.

As for Garden vs Cross - my understanding is that the Atonement started in the Garden and was completed upon the Cross. The Atonement was not completed in the Garden; it only started there. This is my understanding.

Cheers

[Flyonthewall]

Flyonthewall,

Thanks, again. The time you've taken to teach me is appreciated. I hope you understand that I'm not trying to be obstinate, but I'm still having a hard time...

I've been told MANY times on this forum that I cannot use quotes from Prophets, church presidents, or Apostles to support doctrine--I must use the canon of scripture that the LDS church agrees is scripture. Is the D&C reference you posted the only one that the prophets you've mentioned expound on?

Again, I'm not trying to be irritating. I do thank you for your posts, for being kind and for helping me understand.

Lattelady

I understand that the doctrine of the church can be a bit hard to nail down as all church leaders will teach doctrine, but not everything they say is considered doctrine, especially if they are taken out of context. A lot of times critics will take several snippets from several church leaders, put them together and claim they mean something different than was originally put forth.

The links I posted are from lds.org, and they are there so you can read the entire message in the context it was used.

D&C 19 is the only one that I know of the specifically points to the garden of gethsemane as the event that Christ suffered so that others may not suffer.

[Prodigal_Son]

My request is to have some scripture as a basis for the teaching of the atonement being done in the Garden.

Understood. Just making a clarification I felt was important. I'm in Israel right now, actually. If something comes to mind while I visit the sites, I'll be sure to post them here.

[lattelady]

Prodigal_son,

I would LOOOOOVE to go to Israel one day. Oh, I hope you take in EVERYTHING you can while you're there--I hope you take tons of pictures. What a gift to be able to go. I'd love to see Bethlehem...just to be able to have visuals for all the things we read about in the Bible. Have a wonderful time!

[Prodigal_Son]

Prodigal_son,

I would LOOOOOVE to go to Israel one day. Oh, I hope you take in EVERYTHING you can while you're there--I hope you take tons of pictures. What a gift to be able to go. I'd love to see Bethlehem...just to be able to have visuals for all the things we read about in the Bible. Have a wonderful time!

Thanks. I'm actually a Tour Guide, so I get this blessing every December! I have more pictures than I know what to do with.

As for seeing the sites, yes, it's wonderful. It permanently alters the way you read the OT and NT. Having that imagery in your mind is a sweet enhancement.

In fact, I need to go. It's just after 5am here, and I'm going for a run on the Medit. Sea shoreline this morning, going swimming in it, then headed for Caesarea, Mt Carmel, and the Galilee.

[lattelady]

Will you see Gethsemane, or Golgotha?

[Prodigal_Son]

Will you see Gethsemane, or Golgotha?

I'll visit both. In fact, I take the group onto the Mount of Olives 3x's during the tour.

[bytor2112]

Yes, I linked to Elder McConkie's article in my first reply...He has such a better way with words than I do...:)

Me too.....:)