Does the doctrine support a belief in hell?


sulli
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It is a very common religious belief that there is some kind of heaven and some kind of hell. As I have studied the Plan of Salvation it seems that the LDS church does not really believe in hell in the same way that other religions do. Yes, those that do not accept the atonement will suffer for their sins, but once they have "paid" for their own sins they are admitted to one of the three glories, not with God, but also not a place of eternal torment either. I wonder if this is a false interpretation on my part or if we don't actually believe in hell...

Basis for my thinking that we don't actually believe in a traditional hell is based mostly on the idea that just about everyone who has ever lived on the planet or will live on planet will be headed to one of the three glories - telestial, terrestial, or celestial. All three supposedly glories and heavens.

There is of course outer darkness which is technically the "hell" that we believe in, but based on lots of gospel discussions with leaders, very people will qualify to go there.

So does the general population really have to worry about ending up in hell?

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So does the general population really have to worry about ending up in hell?

Not in the traditional fire-and-brimstone 'hell' of mainstream Christianity, no. However, any kingdom of glory except for the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom does qualify as eternal damnation (literally, an eternal 'lack of progression').

This probably belongs in the "Gospel Discussion" forum.

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Sulli, you are correct in your assessment that we don't believe in hell in the traditional sense of burning in eternal fire forever. Outer darkness is our closest belief to that, and the pain and torment of those who deserve that final dwelling place will never be revealed to man. Perhaps those assigned to the telestial or terrestrial kingdom will consider their shortcoming and "what might have been" and that will be a negative experience for them, but most people agree that all three kingdoms are places of great peace and joy so I think the general population needn't worry about burning for eternity like some Christian faiths would have you believe.

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Guest mormonmusic

Interesting, when I was in the Missionary Training Center, George Durrant, mission president at the time, indicated that the terrestial kingdom, where we live without family relationships, with Jesus, but not God, is exactly what most of the Christian world expects heaven to be -- and that is where the good and honorable people will go according to LDS theology. In his words, they will get exactly what they expect....

But to focus on your question -- in terms of hell, I agree with what has been said. There is a kind of "hell" on two levels, and possibly a third.

First is outer darkness where there is absolutely no contact with the Godhead that I'm aware of -- where people who have committed the most grievous sins, such as sin against the Holy Ghost, will end up.

The second kind of hell is eternal regret for not achieving the celestial kingdom, although living the terrestial or telestial has been described as an experience that is better than living in this world by some.

Third is spirit prison. We don't know a lot about this place where we wait spiritually for the resurrection, other than the gospel is taught there to people who knew nothing about it in this life. However the name 'prison' implies discomfort to me, in contrast to spirit paradise. However, this is temporary, until the resurrection and assignment to kingdoms.

So, there isn't the eternal burning sort of hell described in John Milton's book Paradise Lost, or depicted in popular movies....

Edited by mormonmusic
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No. BUT: Even though I don't have to worry about debtor's prison doesn't mean that the bankruptcy system may be invoked with impunity.

LOL. Not what I was getting at, but funny. How to word this... I was not looking for leeway to sin or something if that is what you are implying. Just checking my interpretation of the Plan of Salvation.

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It is a very common religious belief that there is some kind of heaven and some kind of hell. As I have studied the Plan of Salvation it seems that the LDS church does not really believe in hell in the same way that other religions do. Yes, those that do not accept the atonement will suffer for their sins, but once they have "paid" for their own sins they are admitted to one of the three glories, not with God, but also not a place of eternal torment either. I wonder if this is a false interpretation on my part or if we don't actually believe in hell...

Basis for my thinking that we don't actually believe in a traditional hell is based mostly on the idea that just about everyone who has ever lived on the planet or will live on planet will be headed to one of the three glories - telestial, terrestial, or celestial. All three supposedly glories and heavens.

There is of course outer darkness which is technically the "hell" that we believe in, but based on lots of gospel discussions with leaders, very people will qualify to go there.

So does the general population really have to worry about ending up in hell?

One of the problems in having a religious discussion is getting everyone on the same page in just agreeing what we are talking about. The ancient understanding of Hell is simply death. Death and hell in the scriptures are for the most part in understanding, interchangeable.

From the LDS perspective of the restoration of revelation we can understand a few more things as they are defined in scripture. For example we know that there is a first and second death. One being the death of the physical body and the other the death of the spirit which is the separation from G-d.

In order to experience and know good from evil it was necessary in the great plan of Salvation for man to experience the fall which is the death of the spirit. This is why there must be a spiritual rebirth. We cannot be saved in the kingdom without being born of the spirit. Because of the fall all men (and women) suffer the death of the spirit and must be borne of the spirit. Being borne of the spirit is the overcoming of spiritual hell.

The other death is the death of the physical tabernacle or temple that is the physical body of mankind. The deliverance from a physical hell or death does not take place until the resurrection.

There is much confusion in modern religious settings. For example many think because they have been borne again of the spirit that they have been saved from death and hell but if they truly have been borne again they have been delivered from spiritual hell but not the physical hell which deliverance cannot take place until the resurrection. So when someone asks, “Have you been saved?” prior to the resurrection –they lack the understanding that death and hell are the same thing in scripture. Strangely, most people that wish to exalt themselves by declaring their superior spiritual status over others do not take kindly to any correction in their understanding even so much that it appears to me that they would rather remain in their present state than to experience “a more excellent way”.

The Traveler

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Here is the official doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints on Spirit Prison:

Spirit Prison

The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18–20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise.

Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, “Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (Doctrine & Covenants 19:16–18). After suffering for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom.

“Chapter 41: The Postmortal Spirit World,” Gospel Principles, (2009)

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There is of course outer darkness which is technically the "hell" that we believe in, but based on lots of gospel discussions with leaders, very people will qualify to go there.

Outer Darkness is the kingdom for those who rejected the Light. Think Paradise Lost or Faustus. Those who inherit the Telestial glory will pass through Hell.

The LDS God does not torture people with pain. He simply gives them the space they so desire. I personally reject the 'doctrine' of eternal anything (punishment, reward, etc.).

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have wondered that myself. I am curious if those who inherit this awful kingdom will be confined to a planet or to somewhere out in space. There has been nothing revealed about where outer darkness will be.

Some would say your icon not only shows the three degrees of glory, but where outer darkness is.

Regards,

Vanhin

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To get a better understanding of what "traditional" viewpoints are of hell, let's look at the word Hell in the New Testament;

The Christian doctrine of hell derives from the teaching of the New Testament, where hell is typically described using the Greek words Tartarus or Hades or the Hebrew word Gehenna. These three terms have different meanings and must be recognized. Tartarus occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4 and is translated as a place of incarceration of demons. It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife. Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as "the place of the dead", or in other words, the grave. Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually. Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed. Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection. Hell is taught as the final destiny of those who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior after they have passed through the great white throne of judgment, where they will be punished for sin and permanently separated from God after the general resurrection and last judgment.

The fire and brimstone point of view is most likely derived from the Gehenna usage, because of the constant fires burning. A strictly non doctorinal theory I have is that if you were trying to teach people about the most painful thing you could imagine, being cut off from the presence of Heavenly Father; yet the people you were teaching couldn't understand because they didn't know enough to see how that would be so painful, then how would you describe to them the pain?

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To get a better understanding of what "traditional" viewpoints are of hell, let's look at the word Hell in the New Testament;

...

The fire and brimstone point of view is most likely derived from the Gehenna usage, because of the constant fires burning. A strictly non doctorinal theory I have is that if you were trying to teach people about the most painful thing you could imagine, being cut off from the presence of Heavenly Father; yet the people you were teaching couldn't understand because they didn't know enough to see how that would be so painful, then how would you describe to them the pain?

My view also.

HiJolly

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