Help with Hebrews 1:1

[allredcon]

Hebrews 1:

1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,

2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Can someone explain this to me? I read "Mormons are following a false prophet and we know this because Jesus was the last to speak in the last days." and backed it up with this scripture. I went to mi.byu.com and have been searching online, but finding anti-mormon doctrine is unfortunately easier than finding pro-mormon doctrine. Can I get a hand here? What's going on in this scripture?

[livy111us]

The best way to answer any question is to have the person read the passage in context. This is an epistle written by Paul (according to Joseph Smith) to converts from Judaism. You must remember the background of these people. They grew up without Prophets and only going by what man said and also the Old Testament which the last book was written about

450 years prior. So their entire life was taught this was the only way to know truth. So of course they would have a tough time adjusting to the change and say that even though He spoke to man in the past through Prophets has in these days spoke through His Son. He stressed the importance of modern revelation than that of old time (we have the same problems today). This fact is still true to us in our day. There is a line of authority. God tells Christ and Christ speaks to the Prophets. He’s not saying that there is no need for them because this same author says just the opposite in Eph. 3:5-6 he says that He speaks through Prophets in those days after Christ, " 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now arevealed unto his holy apostles and bprophets by the Spirit;" Also in Acts 21:10 which was written after the letter to the Hebrews speaks of a Prophet, " And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.

So in context, this scripture makes perfect sense.

[livy111us]

I forgot to add, there were several prophets after Christ, and even more prophesied about in the last days. I mentioned one, here are others

Acts 21:10, 11:27, 13:1, 15:22,32.

Rev. 11:3-10 speaks of two prophets who will be killed in the final battle IN THE LAST DAYS

[Wingnut]

Well, consider the timeline. It says "in these last days" (emphasis mine). Hebrews wasn't written 50 years ago. It's not speaking of the last days in which we live now. It's speaking of the last days in which it was recorded. For those people, at that time, those were the last days. And Jesus had been sent in that dispensation.

[Misshalfway]

I think Paul is just trying to wake the people up to how lucky they are to have been there at the time of the Savior. In times past they had to hear the word of God from prophets, yet the Lord was there and walked among them! This scripture in no way teaches that God has stopped calling or speaking to prophets. If that were true, Paul never would have been called.

[thekabalist]

Hebrews 1:

1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,

2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Can someone explain this to me? I read "Mormons are following a false prophet and we know this because Jesus was the last to speak in the last days." and backed it up with this scripture. I went to mi.byu.com and have been searching online, but finding anti-mormon doctrine is unfortunately easier than finding pro-mormon doctrine. Can I get a hand here? What's going on in this scripture?

If this book was written to a Jewish audience perhaps I could help you a bit. For us Jews "the prophets" (נביאים - nevi'im) is the name of a section of Scripture. These were the last bits of Scripture to have been written in our Bible. So the way it sounds to me is that this author is invoking the same authority to say that the Spirit that gave us the Scripture of the prophets was now working to provide Scripture concerning Jesus.

I as a Jew see nothing in there which could be used as an assumption that prophecy has ended. It sounds to me like the language suggests prophecy continues. At least this how I think Jewish people would understand it.

b'shalom!

[spamlds]

Hi everyone,

Someone using a Google query on this topic visited my web site some time back, but they didn't join or comment. Perhaps it was the same individual who posted this one here. Here's a few comments on the topic.

Paul was an "anomaly" among the early apostles, in that he had training as a Pharisee. The other men who were called were not schooled in the rabbinical schools. For this reason, Paul's writings often tend to use Jewish history and tradition to establish his claim that Jesus was the Christ. It's not that the other apostles were unable to do this, but Paul had formal training which he then turned to the service of Christ's cause. Nevertheless, his writing drew heavily from this background.

The entire epistle to the Hebrews is an attempt by Paul to tie together and link things that the Jews already knew, to build a bridge to the acceptance of Jesus as their Messiah. The opening "preamble" of Hebrews is the first step in doing that. In some measure, it an expansion on Peter's sermon in Acts chapter 2 and Stephen's sermon in Acts chapter 7. The idea that God works according to a pattern is key.

Paul establishes a pattern and then continues through the rest of the epistle to relate to that pattern. He uses the election of the seed of Abraham, the office of the High Priest, Israel's hardening against Moses in the wilderness, the relationship and preeminence of Melchizedek and the ancient Patriarchs over Abraham (and thus Abraham's seed), the symbolism of the tabernacle, sacrifices, and the miracles wrought through faith in generations past. From those things, he illustrates the pattern and shows how Jesus Christ fulfilled the covenant made with Moses, bringing back the blessings that appertained to the antediluvian patriarchs (direct communion with God.)

Attempts by some to isolate a few verses and play with the wording of the opening verses of Hebrews 1 is misguided. Nothing in the entire Bible says that God would never speak again by revelation. Certainly the primitive church was guided by revelation to living oracles. Ephesians 4:11-14 shows clearly that apostles and prophets were intended to lead the church in perpetuity.

Again, let's use Paul's technique as an example. The Bible establishes the pattern that God speaks through prophets. Paul shows that the coming of Christ was consistent with that pattern. The calling of apostles and prophets (Ephesians 2:19-20) to guide a chosen people by revelation was consistent with that pattern.

Then, INCONSISTENT with that pattern, the ancient church rejected living apostles and prophets (see Acts 20:29, 1 Timothy 4:1-3, 2 Timothy 3:1-7, 4:3-4, 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3, 3 John 1:9-10) declared the canon of scripture closed, and persecuted anyone who taught otherwise. This necessitated a restoration (Acts 3:21).

The Restoration through the Prophet Joseph Smith is consistent with the ancient pattern throughout the ages. Revelation was the norm then, as now. Authority, priesthood, and ordinances were part of the pattern, then as now. Faith worked miracles, then as now. Prophets and apostles presided then, as now. The church was not a quarreling, fragmented, fractious, and divided lot as sectarian Christendom is today. Then, as now in the true church, there was one Lord, one faith, one baptism. (Ephesians 4:5)

Reading Hebrews in its entirety with an understanding that the Lord's plan is one in all ages and dispensations is important. The same gospel that was preached to Abraham (Galatians 3:8) and saved his soul is the one that will save ours. The Epistle to the Hebrews establishes that very nicely. The Bible, when read without attempts to make it conform to sectarian notions plainly bears witness that latter-day saints are a restoration of ancient Christianity.

Edited December 1, 2009 by pam
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[Vort]

Unfortunately, those who agree with you will find your interpretation trivial, while those who disagree will find your explanation specious, using their own eisegesis to confirm their predetermined beliefs.

[Islander]

Hey, where did the OP go? I think it was just one of those hit and run? Should we close it then?

[ozzy]

Guess he got bored.