cwhead321 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I have a question and since it relates to tithing, I know the generic answer would be, "study it over in your mind for yourself and make a decision". However, I am really having a hard time deciding and would like some input from other members. At my new job, my work provides a Health Savings Account (HSA) which they fund completely. These funds are mine to use for health-related expenses since the deductible is very high ($5000) they fund this HSA with $6000 per year. These funds are mine even if I leave the company. Should I pay tithing on this $6000? I don't pay tithing on the amount my company pays for my health insurance premiums (I don't even know how much that is). I have gone back and forth on this many times here are some the arguments on both sides: For PAYING tithing on the HSA: -When in doubt live the higher law. -This could be considered part of my "increase" since it's a type of compensation my employer gives me. For NOT paying tithing on the HSA: -It's similar to funds that my employer pays for my health insurance on my behalf which I don't tithe. -The funds are restricted to purchasing medical expenses only and therefore aren't like the rest of my paycheck. -If my work had a low-deductible plan, they wouldn't be paying into an HSA for me. I'm sure there are other things I'm not considering and that's one of the reasons I wanted to solicit feedback. I just want to make the right decision and feel confident when I tell Bishop I'm a full-tithe payer at settlement. So let me know what you would do--and more importantly, WHY you would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) As this is probably going to sound like the ol' cliche answer..I'm still going to give it. Talk this over with your Bishop and ask him what he would consider on this. As he has stewardship over you and if you do what he says..you have no problem. You are going to find when you ask anything about tithing on this site, you get every conceivable answer. But again..my only advice is to ask your Bishop and follow his counsel. Edited December 16, 2009 by pam darn spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Well, darn. I never even thought about my HSA. Thanks for reminding me. I think how I'm going to handle it--I'm not going to pay on that (subject to change after giving it more serious thought, FYI). My reason for not paying on my HSA--I always pay on my gross income, never on my net. Further, I always round up to the next higher dollar when looking at 10% of gross. In my mind that is being a full tithe payer. This HSA is not income to me as I will never use it for my purposes, but simply for medical. I'm just a middle man--I move the money from one account to another. If I were able to use that money as I wish, then I would consider it more as income and then pay tithing on it. Also, I contribute to my HSA fund (my employer contributes an amount and I contribute on top of that). My contribution I am tithing because again, I tithe on my gross. That's my line of thinking at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 BTW, I agree with Pam. Even after making a decision on tithing, I've talked to my bishop about it to confirm my thinking and receive his counsel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hordak Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 generic answer would be, "study it over in your mind for yourself and make a decision"It's not the generic answer, it's the official answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Remember, the only offical guideline by the church is tithe your annual increase. Nothing else is included. What is determine as an increase is left up to the member, the Lord, and his/her bishop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saguaro Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Pam's right, you'll get every conceivable answer on this subject. So I'll give mine too. I like the "study it over in your mind for yourself and make a decision" approach. If you consider it "increase" then pay tithing on it, if you don't consider it "increase" then, don't pay tithing. I know what I would do, but it's your decision. Why bring the Bishop in on this one? All he can do is give you his opinion as there is no official church position on what is increase and what is not. Poor guy should be left to worry about more serious issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) Do you tithe on your company-paid sick days? Do you tithe on your company-paid vacation days? Do you tithe on your company-paid holidays? Do you tithe on gifts given to you at Christmas? You do or you don't. It's up to you. Nobody can answer your question for you. There are no "rules of tithe accounting". You pray, you talk to your Bishop, then you consult your conscience and let it tell you what to do. When you go to your temple-recommend interview and the bishop asks, "Are you a full tithe payer?" and you answer with a clear conscience, "Yes!"... then you are a full tithe payer. The bishop doesn't ask you to present your W2... Edited December 16, 2009 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Lets add some meat here from the First Presidency - The simplest statement we know of is the statement of the Lord himself, namely, that the members of the church should pay ‘one-tenth of all their interest annually,’ which is understood to mean income, No one is justified in making any other statement than this. First Presidency Letter, March 19, 1971 [see D&C 119:4] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanhin Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I'm with Hemidakota on this one... Vanhin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I think I understand where the OP is coming from here. I like hearing how other people handle things and the reasons behind it because I don't always think like others and may miss something. Doesn't mean I'm going to say, "well so-and-so does it this way, so that must be the way the church believes!" It just gives me some food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnn727 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) The question is: Do you consider that income? I don't think I would, but then I don't have an HSA - I always thought those were use it or lose it. My thought is like yours, I don't pay tithing on the companies share of health costs, or SS or medicare, etc. Now if I left the company and took the money out - then yes to me it would be income. I don't think the Lord is too worried about technicalites, else He would have been more specific. make a decision you're comfortable with as to whether its income or not and then don't worry about it. Edited December 16, 2009 by mnn727 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I have a question and since it relates to tithing, I know the generic answer would be, "study it over in your mind for yourself and make a decision". However, I am really having a hard time deciding and would like some input from other members.At my new job, my work provides a Health Savings Account (HSA) which they fund completely. These funds are mine to use for health-related expenses since the deductible is very high ($5000) they fund this HSA with $6000 per year. These funds are mine even if I leave the company. Should I pay tithing on this $6000? I don't pay tithing on the amount my company pays for my health insurance premiums (I don't even know how much that is).I have gone back and forth on this many times here are some the arguments on both sides:For PAYING tithing on the HSA:-When in doubt live the higher law.-This could be considered part of my "increase" since it's a type of compensation my employer gives me.For NOT paying tithing on the HSA:-It's similar to funds that my employer pays for my health insurance on my behalf which I don't tithe.-The funds are restricted to purchasing medical expenses only and therefore aren't like the rest of my paycheck.-If my work had a low-deductible plan, they wouldn't be paying into an HSA for me.I'm sure there are other things I'm not considering and that's one of the reasons I wanted to solicit feedback. I just want to make the right decision and feel confident when I tell Bishop I'm a full-tithe payer at settlement. So let me know what you would do--and more importantly, WHY you would do it.I would, but I would not blame anyone who decided it was just another form of health insurance. I would do so because the $6000 feels like increase to me, whereas a health care perquisite does not. Otoh, maybe I should start paying tithing on the value of the health care my employer provides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 The question is: Do you consider that income?I don't think I would, but then I don't have an HSA - I always thought those were use it or lose it.My thought is like yours, I don't pay tithing on the companies share of health costs, or SS or medicare, etc. Now if I left the company and took the money out - then yes to me it would be income.I don't think the Lord is too worried about technicalites, else He would have been more specific. make a decision you're comfortable with as to whether its income or not and then don't worry about it.Flexible Spending Account is completely different from Health Savings Account. FSA is the use-it-or-lose-it one. HSA is like a Roth IRA - post-tax investment that gains interest and is yours forever. If you pass away before you spend it, it gets included as part of your estate to pass to your heirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 HSA is pre-tax, not post-tax. At least with my health care plan with my company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwhead321 Posted December 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Thanks everybody for your help! I think I'll go with beefche's suggestion. His tithing habits mirror mine and that's the direction I was leaning anyway. It feels nice just to have decided! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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