On being an Artist and LDS, nudity in art

[trixie]

I am not LDS but I do have a question for LDS artists out there. First I apologize if this is in the wrong place, wasn't sure where the right place is. Anyhow my question is this. How do you all feel about nudity in art? Is there a church stance on this? I attend an art school a figure drawing is required of us. I've met a couple LDS kids at the art school I go to. One of them sees no problem with it, another one seems to think it's pornographic. Further more we have a gallery with teacher work and student work on display some of which is nude, I happen to find it artistically done and tasteful. How do the church schools go about teaching figure drawing? Just curious, any insight would be great, thanks

[Misshalfway]

Well, I can tell you that the Brigham Young University art classes use models who wear nude colored underclothing. They do expose the shape of the human form without exposing everything.

I think if you ask members of the church how they feel, you will get lots of responses. Some can tolerate and even appreciate nudity in certain forms while others cannot. I think that sexually explicit art can be very erotic and qualify as pornography. Studying the human form does not necessarily fall into that catagory.

As far as the church goes, I don't know if I have heard anything specific. The church usually teaches its people to become educated and read from the best books but to make sure we use the spirit to discriminate what it is we expose ourselves to. I personally believe that a person can appreciate nudity without becoming offended but that usually depends on what is being presented. Generally, sexually explicit art is offensive and not something you will find LDS people supporting or participating in.

[Vanhin]

I am not LDS but I do have a question for LDS artists out there. First I apologize if this is in the wrong place, wasn't sure where the right place is. Anyhow my question is this. How do you all feel about nudity in art? Is there a church stance on this? I attend an art school a figure drawing is required of us. I've met a couple LDS kids at the art school I go to. One of them sees no problem with it, another one seems to think it's pornographic. Further more we have a gallery with teacher work and student work on display some of which is nude, I happen to find it artistically done and tasteful. How do the church schools go about teaching figure drawing? Just curious, any insight would be great, thanks

Drawings or paintings of naked women are pornography to me.

Vanhin

[Wingnut]

Art (and also pornography) are in the eye of the beholder, are they not? As such, every person will have a different opinion.

[Misshalfway]

Drawings or paintings of naked women are pornography to me.

Vanhin

Do you feel the same about stuff like the statue of David?

It would be tough for me to label this type of expression pornography. Nudity is not always about sex. Not that I don't question the intent of some classic artists now and again.

[Vanhin]

Do you feel the same about stuff like the statue of David?

It would be tough for me to label this type of expression pornography. Nudity is not always about sex. Not that I don't question the intent of some classic artists now and again.

I didn't say it was pornography to everyone. I said to me. And no, art of naked men is not pornography to me.

Vanhin

Edited December 16, 2009 by Vanhin
is or are

[Dravin]

I didn't say it was pornography to everyone. I said to me. And no, art of naked men is not pornography to me.

Vanhin

You can get interesting reactions on a Mission when you confess (to your companion) you'd rather be exposed to a nude guy than a gal. Well, at least until you explain it's because the guy holds no temptation and the gal does. Then the reaction tends to be a little less wild eyed. :)

[Misshalfway]

:) I hear ya.

[Misshalfway]

You can get interesting reactions on a Mission when you confess (to your companion) you'd rather be exposed to a nude guy than a gal. Well, at least until you explain it's because the guy holds no temptation and the gal does. Then the reaction tends to be a little less wild eyed. :)

On my mish, the Elders thought telephone poles looked good.

[Vanhin]

You can get interesting reactions on a Mission when you confess (to your companion) you'd rather be exposed to a nude guy than a gal. Well, at least until you explain it's because the guy holds no temptation and the gal does. Then the reaction tends to be a little less wild eyed. :)

Exactly. Now if seeing a naked guy is a problem for another guy, those little fairy towers we called "showers" in the MTC would have really been a problem.

I served in Finland. We went to Sauna naked, which for me, being a Finn, was not a big deal, but for others it was a little weird at first. Though I heard a couple of years ago that they stopped allowing Sauna for missionaries.

Regards,

Vanhin

[Dravin]

On my mish, the Elders thought telephone poles looked good.

Mission Goggles are a powerful force.

Now if seeing a naked guy is a problem for another guy, those little fairy towers we called "showers" in the MTC would have really been a problem.

They've gotten rid of those, at least at MTC Provo.

[Vanhin]

Mission Goggles are a powerful force.

They've gotten rid of those, at least at MTC Provo.

oh good. Were you there when they had them?

Vanhin

[Misshalfway]

I just watched that movie "UP" with my kids and you know the scenes when the dogs stop everything when one says "squirrel"?

Well, that is what it feels like sometimes with guys and nudity. I guess I hope with emotional/spiritual maturity one would be able to tolerate non sexual nudity, but maybe my assumption just doesn't happen in real life.

[Dravin]

oh good. Were you there when they had them?

Vanhin

Nope, we had stalls. In some ways I think I would have preferred the old style 'tree of life' showers, things would have moved along quicker as the way the stalls have been set up it limited each shower post to two functioning shower heads instead of the 6 or so they were set up with. Means I wouldn't have had to get up as early to insure I got dressed and to where I needed to be in time.

. I guess I hope with emotional/spiritual maturity one would be able to tolerate non sexual nudity, but maybe my assumption just doesn't happen in real life.

I think as a women you may be underestimating the powerful visual component of the male libido. While yeah, I imagine if one was perfect one wouldn't be tempted by naked women, heck even straight up pornography, I don't think men who can't look at naked women without having the understandable reaction of attraction (assuming they are attractive) is suffering from spiritual stunting.

Actually the implication that unless I can look at naked women without anything crossing my mind (or my biology) I'm spiritually immature is kinda insulting even though I know that probably isn't how you meant it.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Dravin

[NeuroTypical]

I've met a couple LDS kids at the art school I go to. One of them sees no problem with it, another one seems to think it's pornographic.

That's basically the range you get when you ask any group of mormons anywhere. And we all have scripture and talks from our church leaders to back up our individual opinions too!

Enjoy watching the fight.

LM

[Misshalfway]

I think as a women you may be underestimating the powerful visual component of the male libido. While yeah, I imagine if one was perfect one wouldn't be tempted by naked women, heck even straight up pornography, I don't think men who can't look at naked women without having the understandable reaction of attraction (assuming they are attractive) is suffering from spiritual stunting.

Actually the implication that unless I can look at naked women without anything crossing my mind (or my biology) I'm spiritually immature is kinda insulting even though I know that probably isn't how you meant it.

Honestly not trying to insult you cute boys but I will admit to teasing a little though.

I try not to underestimate what you describe but I really hope there are some controls at play here otherwise I prolly won't go to another male gynie.

[Vanhin]

I just watched that movie "UP" with my kids and you know the scenes when the dogs stop everything when one says "squirrel"?

Well, that is what it feels like sometimes with guys and nudity. I guess I hope with emotional/spiritual maturity one would be able to tolerate non sexual nudity, but maybe my assumption just doesn't happen in real life.

I try not to underestimate what you describe but I really hope there are some controls at play here otherwise I prolly won't go to another male gynie.

That is the control that is in place. :)

For some men, not tolerating themselves to enjoy the nudity of women (besides that of their own wives), is a sign of their emotional/spiritual maturity.

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (Matt. 5:29)

It may not be nudity, but we all have things we need to "pluck" out from our lives and live without, if we are to make it safely from this life to the next.

Regards,

Vanhin

[Gwen]

lol to quote part of a brad paisley song....

You're probably thinkin' that you're gonna change me. In some ways well maybe you might. Scrub me down, dress me up, oh but no matter what remember I'm still a guy......

When you see a priceless French painting and I see a drunk naked girl.....

[Wingnut]

On my mish, the Elders thought telephone poles looked good.

Well, Ohio telephone poles are exceptionally more attractive than telephone poles in other states.

While yeah, I imagine if one was perfect one wouldn't be tempted by naked women...

I don't think perfection equates to a lack of temptation (Jesus was tempted by the Devil himself), but rather it equates to not succumbing to temptation.

[Dravin]

Honestly not trying to insult you cute boys but I will admit to teasing a little though.

I try not to underestimate what you describe but I really hope there are some controls at play here otherwise I prolly won't go to another male gynie.

There are controls, and I imagine, particularly with doctors, repeated exposure and context counts. I guess I just thought of having to be able to flip through a book of nudes (the subject is art after all, not doctors exams, and art is generally designed to be appealing and elicit a reaction) with no reaction (good or bad), it's not like when ever I see a classic sculpture my brains shuts off but I don't think if I wisely avoid taking a looksee at the Nude Female Gallery that just opened up that I'm emotionally or spiritually immature.

I don't think perfection equates to a lack of temptation (Jesus was tempted by the Devil himself), but rather it equates to not succumbing to temptation.

Good point. I suppose I was thinking more along the lines of innocent (ala Adam and Eve in the garden) rather than perfect (The Savior's being tempted but never succumbing).

Edited December 16, 2009 by Dravin

[Misshalfway]

There are controls, and I imagine, particularly with doctors, repeated exposure and context counts. I guess I just thought of having to be able to flip through a book of nudes (the subject is art after all, not doctors exams, and art is generally designed to be appealing and elicit a reaction) with no reaction, it's not like when ever I see a classic sculpture my brains shuts off but I don't think if I wisely avoid taking a looksee at the Nude Female Gallery that just opened up that I'm emotionally or spiritually immature.

I don't either. This isn't what I meant to say with my "UP" analogy. I just thought of it and it made me laugh. Coincidentally, I thought of the Brad Paisley song too. Really just finding the humor in the situation. Sorry I offended you. I really do honor a mans natural sexuality and even respect it when someone chooses to avoid certain art cuz I do the same thing. But I will say that it baffles me a bit to see a sexual response or a hyper religious one when any nudity might be is present. But that's just me. Like the artist Freda. There is nudity in her work but its not sexually explicit. It's about her pain. I guess I appreciate that. I just can't equate nudity in art with sex all the time. I hope there are men who feel the same way.

[Maya]

Exactly. Now if seeing a naked guy is a problem for another guy, those little fairy towers we called "showers" in the MTC would have really been a problem.

I served in Finland. We went to Sauna naked, which for me, being a Finn, was not a big deal, but for others it was a little weird at first. Though I heard a couple of years ago that they stopped allowing Sauna for missionaries.

Regards,

Vanhin

Poor missionaries miss a very important part of Finnish nationality! They really should stay a week as a turist before they leave in order to experience Finland!

[Vanhin]

I don't either. This isn't what I meant to say with my "UP" analogy. I just thought of it and it made me laugh. Coincidentally, I thought of the Brad Paisley song too. Really just finding the humor in the situation. Sorry I offended you. I really do honor a mans natural sexuality and even respect it when someone chooses to avoid certain art cuz I do the same thing. But I will say that it baffles me a bit to see a sexual response or a hyper religious one when any nudity might be is present. But that's just me. Like the artist Freda. There is nudity in her work but its not sexually explicit. It's about her pain. I guess I appreciate that. I just can't equate nudity in art with sex all the time. I hope there are men who feel the same way.

Yeah blind men. For example. And there are men who are not fazed by nude women at all... what is coincidence here is that those men probably like to go to art galleries too.

Regards,

Vanhin

[Dravin]

Sorry I offended you.

Don't worry about it. I knew that wasn't you intent and communication, particularly over the internet, can be tricky.

Like the artist Freda. There is nudity in her work but its not sexually explicit. It's about her pain. I guess I appreciate that. I just can't equate nudity in art with sex all the time. I hope there are men who feel the same way.

Does this art contain male nudity? It isn't particularly fair to lament that men can't look upon naked women with impunity like a women can. Apples to apples would be you looking at the male form. For all I know it does and you do, but I can look upon the male form with as much lack of sexuality as you can the female I imagine.

Not to play the I was raised this way card, but I/we live in a highly sexualized culture. The adult female form is presented to me as something inherently sexual (and biology doesn't help), has been since day one. Turning that off is not easy, and while It can (probably) be done I'd rather run the risk of missing some art over running the risk of damaging my soul, particularly because most of what comes to mind as nudity in art, while not sexually explicit is sexual in nature. Think something like Fantasy Art Cheesecake, the reasons the great sword wielding barbarian women is nude (or almost nude) is not to help communicate something deeper, it's about sex.

Maybe the bad apples have ruined the bunch. *shrug*

Edited December 16, 2009 by Dravin

[Misshalfway]

Does this art contain male nudity?

Freida? No. It's female and often she depicts herself. It's honestly a bit disturbing and fascinating at the same time. Just thought it was a good example.

And I can see what you are saying about the sexualization of our culture and the barbarian women. It is a sad thing and its cool to see a man stand on his prinicples over secular sensibilities. But when I think about taking an art class and scetching the human form, it feels like it could be sexual if one wants to make it into that but that is not the focus of the exercize. Was it Leonardo or Michael Angelo who would cut up cadavers to discover how to make the human form look real and proportional? I think if one can get past the modesty stuff, one can appreciate that there are other, higher ways to deal with it. A female hand is different than a males. Her hips and arms different than a mans. I am suggesting that one can appreciate nudity and study it in a very asexual way.