Missionary Work Conundrum


Guest mormonmusic
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Guest mormonmusic

Let's say you're on a mission and you're teaching someone who's been referred to by a member. The man has a family who attends a different Church semi-regularly, but he says he feels partial to the LDS Church and would like to learn more. You have a good first discussion with him, and he seems to be accepting things. There is a good Spirit. He decides he wants to get his family involved in the discussions the next time you meet.

When you show up next time, his wife and teenage sons are there, as well as another man -- who describes himself as a friend of the family who wants to sit in. Something seems a bit off and distant about him as he appears not to want to share much about himself.

You start teaching about God and His plan of salvation. This man raises the question of whether God has a physical body or has a Spirit, countering every response you have with a counter-argument or scripture. And he's very terse and argumentative. He finally tells you you're wrong, he has a Master's Degree of some kind in religion, you don't know what you're talking about, and that he is the youth pastor at the Church your investigator's family attends occasionally. He takes control of the lesson presenting you a couple Anti-mormon issues you've heard over and over again and asks you to respond.

You thought you were coming to teach a lesson to people who wanted to learn, but find yourself on the cusp of a "public" contest with this apparenlty anti_Mormon youth pastor. The investigators seem engaged, some a bit uncomfortable, and sit there, withdrawn, arms folded, listening. The father of the household sits there listening intently.

Just wondering how you think a full-time or Ward missionary should proceed in a situation like this, consistent with gospel principles....

Edited by mormonmusic
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I would fall back on bearing testimony.

In such a situation all you can do is offer them a Book of Mormon and tell them that you know it's true, but that they have to find out for themselves. Tell them if they are sincerely looking for truth then listen to what God has to say on the matter and not what man has to say.

Then, while offering them the Book of Mormon, invite them to read and pray.

Either they will or they won't. There is NOTHING you can say in the discussion with the other man that will convince them to read and pray. Give them the opportunity to feel the Spirit in your heart-felt invitation.

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Guest mormonmusic

I would fall back on bearing testimony.

I used to do this now and then, but I found people who want to engage in intellectual arguments see it as your admission you don't have answers, or that your position is indefensible. I know the Book of Mormon says to "bear down in full testimony" in some situations, but that never seemed to have an impact on the people who showed up to bash, and more importantly, turn the investigators against the Church.

Also, people like this were so contentious, it was nearly impossible to dispel the negative and argumentative atmosphere he created. And to try to teach anything,was really hard, as they keep interrupting whenever you tried to ask questions of other people in the room to put the discussion on a more divine path.

I think there have to be other ways. Particularly when they come out with "I prayed about it and the Lord told me it isn't true".

Edited by mormonmusic
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As justice said, testimony.

Their arguments may serve the intellectual mind, but nothing can counter a heart-felt and sincere testimony. The guy's contentious arguments may get to their heads, but your sincere testimony gets to their hearts.

Trying to argue back intellectually speaking in that type of setting typically just encourages more contention, which obviously doesn't keep the spirit there. Of course, it's not bad to do a little defending, but it should be a part of your testimony.

Not to mention the argumentative stuff never ends if both sides are convinced they're right. Satan wants you to contend. So don't.

Edited by Taldarin
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Guest mormonmusic

I know trying to solve the question on the basis of reason isn't the way to go, but I do believe that simply saying "I know it's true" also doesn't seem to wash with a lot of non-members and the antagonists.

IN fact, I tried so hard to do the testimony/spirit-touching approach, that in one of these scenarios I did the following, which I think is sort of what you're suggesting.

We were told we were not Christians. The anti-Mormon person, president of the local chapter of an Anti-Mormon group, was really mean and disrespectful to us in her tone, telling us we were brainwashed, that we'd put our brains on the shelf etcetera. Told us we were lying etcetera.

At this point I realized there was no point in arguing, so we just said we were leaving, but wanted to end with a hymn. My companion said a prayer and then we sang "I Believe in Christ" in hoping this would create a spiritual feeling and remove the contention.

After we were done and said we were leaving, this anti-Mormon person screamed at us "You know what it says in the Bible -- truth stays and error leaves!!!!!!!!".

The investigator actually invited us back for another discussion, and apologized for the behavior of the anti-Mormon person. But she never did convert. I think she just felt guilty about the behavior of the person she'd invited to the discussion unbenownst to us beforehand.

Now, my question -- how respectful is it for an investigator to invite someone to a discussion about the Church who is clearly antagonistic about it, without telling the missionaries beforehand? And don't you think that if you're in the home of an investigator where contention and disrespect prevails, the investigator should consider being proactive and putting the brakes on any contentious behavior from the anti-Mormon?

Edited by mormonmusic
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Now, my question -- how respectful is it for an investigator to invite someone to a discussion about the Church who is clearly antagonistic about it, without telling the missionaries beforehand? And don't you think that if you're in the home of an investigator where contention and disrespect prevails, the investigator should consider being proactive and putting the brakes on any contentious behavior from the anti-Mormon?

You can't control what other people do in their own homes. Is it rude to invite someone they know will dispute and argue and not let the other party know? Of course it is. But, all one can do is control oneself.

There are times in life that we are going to be accosted by others for various reasons (religion, politics, team I'm cheering for, etc.). I think it speaks volumes when someone who is confronted with unpleasantness acts in a dignified and respectful manner in return. And sometimes, that means to simply walk away.

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Not having read any of the previous responses so far, I would bear testimony and then leave the home. No teaching or learning can happen when the spirit of contention is present. Then I would either contact the family by phone or just drop by unscheduled when the father would be home, and explain that we come not to debate but to teach, and if they are not earnestly interested in learning, then we will discontinue our visits.

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I have been in this situation, but without the combativeness.

The best thing to do in my opinion, is to challenge both the investigator and the "ringer" to pray about the things that they have been taught, and the Lord will tell them the right or the wrong.

There is no point in arguing. The scriptures are clear: "thou shalt not talk in tenets."

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I know trying to solve the question on the basis of reason isn't the way to go, but I do believe that simply saying "I know it's true" also doesn't seem to wash with a lot of non-members and the antagonists.

If you read my post, I didn't say "just say I know it's true."

As has been suggested by others as well, invite them to read and pray so they can come to know for themselves.

You can't live people's lives for them; you can't make decisions for them. But, telling them they have to come to know for themselves is logic no one can refute. Stating truth such as that gives the Spirit an opportunity to work. Either they are willing or they are not. If they are not, then it's time to leave.

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Guest mormonmusic

You can't control what other people do in their own homes. Is it rude to invite someone they know will dispute and argue and not let the other party know? Of course it is.

Agreed. But after I left a few of these kinds of meetings (I had many as a missionary), I often though that if I was in their shoes, I'd speak up and let some mutual respect prevail in my home. I was a human behing and deserved respect for my beliefs, just as the anti-Mormon does for his own religion.

So, in the future when this happened, I would often direct my comments to the host, and indicate that I felt I felt I'd been invited to an ambush and attack on my religion -- someting I hold dear.

And I'd say I would have preferred it if they had advised me they were inviting someone from an Anti-Mormon group to this discussion; then I might've come prepared for a different kind of meeting, or chosen to decline to attend at all. Then I'd figure out a way to end the discussion and leave.

I'd always try to leave with a prayer or hymn to leave the Spirit when we left.

Often they apologized, and on two occasions invited us back again. They both apologized for the behavior of the Anti-Mormon, and didn't invite the anti-Mormon back either. Never did they convert, however.

Edited by mormonmusic
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Guest mormonmusic

Continuing on:

There are times in life that we are going to be accosted by others for various reasons (religion, politics, team I'm cheering for, etc.). I think it speaks volumes when someone who is confronted with unpleasantness acts in a dignified and respectful manner in return. And sometimes, that means to simply walk away.

This was another objective I had -- and that was NOT to start mud-slinging like the Anti-Mormon person. To show kindness and respect and conduct ourselves as Christlike people -- without allowing myself to be trampled on for my beliefs. It seemed that many of these anti-Mormon types couldn't control themselves -- because they think we are evil and they are fighting Satan, so they think it's justified to be hateful.

In fact, one strategy was to point out the ways in which the anti-mormon was behaving that were unChristlike, so the investigator could see it clearly.

I'd never say "unChristlike" but I'd comment that I felt it was questionable they weren't forthright about who they were when we were first introduced. Also, that the tone of voice and constant interrupting was not conducive to a civil discussion, and that I questioned whether there would be any "discovery of truth" when contentious spirit prevailed. That it was time to end the discussion.

Sometimes they would say "You're just leaving because you can't answer my questions".

I'd say -- I have answers -- solid ones, but you won't let me speak and you've obviously made up your mind. And my goal is to meet with people who are sincerely seeking the truth, not someone who has already made up their mind. And the Spirit can't reveal itself in this atmosphere.

"So, with respect Mrs. Investigator, we'd like to lend with a prayer and a song and then be on our way...." Interesting, I didn't follow up with these people afterwards. On both occasions they called us to come back.

Edited by mormonmusic
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Let's say you're on a mission and you're teaching someone who's been referred to by a member. The man has a family who attends a different Church semi-regularly, but he says he feels partial to the LDS Church and would like to learn more. You have a good first discussion with him, and he seems to be accepting things. There is a good Spirit. He decides he wants to get his family involved in the discussions the next time you meet.

When you show up next time, his wife and teenage sons are there, as well as another man -- who describes himself as a friend of the family who wants to sit in. Something seems a bit off and distant about him as he appears not to want to share much about himself.

You start teaching about God and His plan of salvation. This man raises the question of whether God has a physical body or has a Spirit, countering every response you have with a counter-argument or scripture. And he's very terse and argumentative. He finally tells you you're wrong, he has a Master's Degree of some kind in religion, you don't know what you're talking about, and that he is the youth pastor at the Church your investigator's family attends occasionally. He takes control of the lesson presenting you a couple Anti-mormon issues you've heard over and over again and asks you to respond.

You thought you were coming to teach a lesson to people who wanted to learn, but find yourself on the cusp of a "public" contest with this apparenlty anti_Mormon youth pastor. The investigators seem engaged, some a bit uncomfortable, and sit there, withdrawn, arms folded, listening. The father of the household sits there listening intently.

Just wondering how you think a full-time or Ward missionary should proceed in a situation like this, consistent with gospel principles....

I saw this often on my mission. I think one thing we need to get over is the idea or concept that there is a competition. What I would do is graciously thank the new person for their personal interest in learning from a youth like me about a most sacred things restored in our time that I hold dear and that I am willing to come to them at my own expense putting off my college education and a full ride scholarship. I let them know that I was there out of sacrifice and not to establish my profession but that I feel that what I have to say is of the kind of importance to make that kind of personal sacrifice I had made.

Then I would invite the new guy to say whatever they like and to tell us all about why they have come, what special message they may have and what interest or lack of interest they really have in the discussion that we very untrained missionaries have to share with the family. Often I would ask directly if they have come with the intent to cause confusion or disrupt what we might teach.

If there was any indication that the gentleman was hostile I would simply let the family know that we would like to teach them in a setting open to the spirit at the same time encourage the family that they may want to meet at a separate time with this gentleman to discuss his views – point out that we have no desire what-so-ever to disrupt anything he desires to teach. That our message is only concerns what we offer and is not a message “against” any other teaching. Usually I would point out that if he was interested in what we have to offer we would make an appointment to meet with him at his church.

The point is that before a family can be taught it is important to provide an environment that is open to sacred teachings. If the gentleman insisted on remaining I would then point out that we begin our discussions with prayer and invite the Spirit of G-d to be with us and guide our discussions. Then I would ask the gentleman to offer a prayer to petition The L-rd that we could discuss things according to his spirit. If his prayer was not uplifting to a discussion I would then take the time to open again with a prayer of my own. Then I would proceed with a discussion about family – having family home evening making sure not to discuss anything to which the gentleman could draw issue. I would end with an invitation for all to attend church with us at the local ward or branch next Sunday with a special invitation for the family to have their next discussion there.

The Traveler

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You know, questions like these remind me that we each have our unique personality and God loves us for that. I'm a generally humorous person. I find humor in even the strangest situations. Sometimes God needs me to be humorous in situations that just aren't funny. Sometimes He needs someone like you that can strive to leave peace. Sometimes He needs someone who can articulate truth in an uncompromising manner. Sometimes, those qualities can be found in the one person that is in that situation.

I firmly believe the scriptures that says to just open your mouth and the Lord will fill it. I just think that the Lord fills my mouth with something funny or peaceful or truth as He needs and doesn't always conform to what we think is "spiritual."

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Guest mormonmusic

If you read my post, I didn't say "just say I know it's true."

As has been suggested by others as well, invite them to read and pray so they can come to know for themselves.

We probably said something to that effect during the discussions, but in my experience, the anti-Mormon was so closed-minded, and had already rejected the Moroni 3:5 concept, it never worked. It might've resonated with the investigators, but we'd already explained that to them in previous discussions. Worth repeating, though, you do have a point.

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I only had this (sorta) happen once.

Well, it was a little different. It was the husband who was belligerent and there was a pastor with him and his wife. The pastor (aka a friend from church) was respectful actually, he asked questions geared towards understanding, actually helped us clear up some common misconceptions.

The husband on the other hand was brash, rude and abrasive. Actually pulled out the whole "Have you read the bible in its entirety?" deal. Though I suppose some good came out of that, it prompted me to read the Bible cover to cover (I know its prideful, but being able to respond with, "Yes, cover to cover. You?" was priceless). Anyway, he set himself up as an authority on the Bible, embarrassingly enough because we were teaching and he'd pipe up, "Paul never said that!", "Where does that say that!", "That's not in the Bible!" and we'd calmly open up his scriptures with him and have him read it out loud. Actually one time he read and responded, "I've never read that before!".

It was interesting, the missionary I was with bore testimony, and you could see the guy softening before your eyes but as soon as the testimony was over he hardened right back up. Long story short, after the guy when from rude and abrasive to down right offensive my comp bore a final testimony (crazy strong) and we left. I don't think anything more came from it other than the wife being embarrassed by her husbands behavior and looking like she wanted to melt into the couch.

Never really had the ambush by a pastor scenario, usually we'd come back after they'd talked with their pastor and hit a brick wall (Which I can respect even if not like :) ). Not sure what I would have done if somebody insisted in having a pastor (or anti-friend) sit in on the lessons with them and refuse to meet separately.

I guess its time like these you just hit your knees. (I know, not an original thought)

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Guest mormonmusic

I firmly believe the scriptures that says to just open your mouth and the Lord will fill it. I just think that the Lord fills my mouth with something funny or peaceful or truth as He needs and doesn't always conform to what we think is "spiritual."

I also agree with this -- I ran into one Anti-Mormon who told me he prayed about it and the Lord told him it wasn't true.

I remember the paragraph of words was just there in my mind and I just said them. Basically that I didn't believe he'd prayed about it, and that it would roll forward in spite of opposition like I was hearing.

You know, when I made the comment "I don't believe you've prayed about it" he "started" and looked sheepish, and I knew then he wasn't telling the truth.

The feelings in these meetings, though, were so intense, and in the beginning, I was so unprepared for it, I think I looked like a babbling idiot, and with my personality, nothing humorous came to mind. In fact, in the early stages of my mission, after one of these meetings, my companion and I both just went to a park and read scriptures and prayed because we both felt shaken by the terrible feeling these people brought to our discussion. I literally felt I was in the presence of evil at the time.

Literally, we felt shaken, and definitely, not spiritual, and extremely drained afterwards.

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We had a lot of persecution (physical and otherwise) on my mission. I remember one incident while standing at the bus stop with a youth. I was asking her to explain a word I didn't know (I went foreign speaking). She did her best, but I just didn't understand. The man behind us very harshly and loudly said, "It means to get away--just like I want you to do NOW!" Well, of course, this scared this youth to death. I just turned to him and began asking him my questions to make sure I understood. I finally understood that it meant go away but only when talking to a pest (like a fly or dog). When I came to that understanding, I got the biggest grin on my face and thanked the man profusely for his help. He just quietly said, "your welcome." I then calmly turned back to the youth I was with and continued our conversation without interruption again from anyone.

Now this situation is not the same as what you described, MM, but I think the principle still applies. When confronted with someone who has decided to not learn a thing from you and is in fact beligerant about it, the Spirit can tell you how to react and what to say. And I believe that He works with our personalities.

I've been in situations where I had people Bible bashing me. I am not a Bible scholar--I've read it on several occasions, but I can't quote scriptures very well. So, the Lord would help me by telling me that my attempts to provide scriptures to refute their ideas was not working. Instead, He inspired me to use humor or bear testimony (depending on the situation). On the rare occasions that I had a person genuinely wanting to know what Bible verses meant, I had the Lord's inspiration to help me point out other scriptures to explain.

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We probably said something to that effect during the discussions, but in my experience, the anti-Mormon was so closed-minded, and had already rejected the Moroni 3:5 concept, it never worked. It might've resonated with the investigators, but we'd already explained that to them in previous discussions. Worth repeating, though, you do have a point.

I wasn't saying to say it to the other man... say it to the person's home you were in. They invited you in because they felt the Spirit. Give them the chance again.

You no longer have to respond to the other man.

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Knowing what I know now, I would probably do the following:

a) Do not engage the anti, on any level. Let him/her rant until he runs out of gas; then just sit there a few moments longer (but not so long that he builds up another head of steam. Maintain your dignity; think of Jesus before Herod.

b) Point out, to the investigator, the difference in atmosphere between the last time you were there and this time. Explain that while Jude tells us to "contend for the faith" (Jude 1:3), Paul tells us that in so "contending" our sword is supposed to be the Spirit (Ephesians 6:17). Tell them they can judge for themselves whether you have been speaking with the Spirit, or whether their friend has; but our Church believes this about the Spirit (then recite D&C 50:21-24).

c) Explain to the family that it's natural to want to know the intellectual basis and arguments for a religion; and encourage them to continue their discussions with the anti if they feel it necessary. Emphasize that while you are not specially trained in apologetics, you are quite comfortable that Mormonism's intellectual foundation is solid. Then point them to a couple of good apologetics websites (it's probably best to note up front that they are written by church members in their individual capacities and not produced by the Church directly), and tell them that that's all you have to say about whatever their anti friend brings up.

d) Finally, emphasize that a cornerstone of your message is that God can talk to people today; He can and does talk to the investigators directly and individually, and your purpose is to try to help them hear His voice to them a little more clearly. If their companion will remain silent (or at least sufficiently respectful that the Spirit of the Lord can be present), you are happy to proceed with the lesson; if not, however, then there's really no point in your staying there any longer. Make sure they have the apologetics websites, say a closing prayer, and leave.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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i too had similar experiences on my mission...tracted a man who setup an appointment to return only to find out he was a minister and was prepared when we returned. I was not comfortable and there was nothing of value that came from it. I still think about it from time to time and wonder if there was something else I could have said or done but the truth is people that feel and believe that way have either made their eternal decision or at some future time will allow HF's attempts to reach them succeed.

On a funny note, a recent missionary in my ward had a saying for people who rejected their message harshly, he would say "Have fun being a star!" :D Not sure if he told them that but it seemed to help him remember to let it go and continue searching.

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I have not been on a mission and have never been presented with a situation like this, but I have contemplated over how to handle something like this many times. I know that the "reason" debate won't get you anywhere and that the Lord has counseled us to avoid contention, especially when trying to teach with the Spirit.

I believe I would fall back on the emotions I am seeing and sensing in those present. There are many instances in the Book of Mormon where an "anti-Christ" (Korihor, Nehor, Zeezrom, etc) attempted to start a battle of words over the doctrine of the Lord. Those who successfully overcame the situation used the power of discernment to see the heart of the speaker and shared the truth they were trying to hide with lies.

I would like to think I'd find myself saying something like this:

To the anti-Mormon- "You are obviously very intent on protecting your friends from being led astray. I see you have done your research and have concluded that you want nothing to do with the Latter-Day Saints. I would like to ask you though- How can you be so sure that the information you have studied is true? The words of men are flawed and can be misdirected. It is only the Word of God that we can trust. I won't debate doctrine with you. I'm not here to share my opinion, witty banter, or battle the finer points of my belief. I am here to share what I have learned, through personal revelation from the Spirit of the Lord, to be true."

To the host- "We will receive God's word line upon line, precept upon precept. When we are ready for deeper, higher, greater doctrine, he will present it to us. I believe you invited me into your home because you felt the Spirit move upon you, that there was something greater out there, more truth for you to learn. You can learn the truth through your own personal revelation, if you will study it out in your mind and your heart and then pray about it. Put your trust in the Lord- not in man. I don't expect you to join this church because I say you should. Don't take my word for it. Join when you have learned for yourself, from God, that this is what He wants you to do."

To all- "It is good to be skeptical. Skepticism can help keep you from being led astray, but be careful where you place your trust. Are you placing your understanding of this church on the words of other men or on the words of God? Think about it, pray about it, and if you would like to hear more you know how to find me."

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yep give your testimony of the Savior I have had similar experiances with family members/non-members I believe when you share your love for the Savior no matter the situation or contention the spirit always stood by me(in love) for my fellow being which I am still trying to practice

cheers

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Just remind your investigators that contention is not the goal, and if they want to know the truth, they are welcome to continue learning. Many times on my mission, I told investigators flat out I would explain any and every doctrine of the church in detail, but only if allowed to give context to the discussion. Most times, the antagonist would not agree. And that is when the investigators know who is truly from God. and who is not.

Also, point out what the Holy Ghost feels like, and ask them to contrast the feelings that the other person brought into their house, compared to the feeling they got when they first met the missionaries. It's very easy to feel when the Holy Ghost leaves a house.

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