How do you hold onto someone who won't stay? And how do you get rid of someone who won't go?

[JudoMinja]

First off, I'd like to apologize for how long this post is going to be, but I felt prompted to share a bit of my own story. I think it might help. I too was in an abusive relationship, and don't ever think your relationship is not abusive simply because it has not become physical. Abuse encompasses so much more than that. Mine, however, was very brief, unlike yours. I am still working through my divorce, so it's technically not over yet, but I'm away from him and that's what's important.

From what you've posted, your husband sounds very similar to my own. The difference is in the simple fact that the abuse I experienced was more intense. I am so glad I left and am not enduring it as long as you have. I don't know how you've managed to hold up for as long as you have. I commend you! But honestly, no matter how hard it is, no matter how much you think continuing to try to work things out will spare your children, the best thing for your children is to get him out of the picture FAST. The sooner you do it the better. Enough damage has already been done. Don't let him do more.

To share some of my experience- here is something I wrote to myself when I finally hit the breaking point:

I don’t know if I love him anymore…..

When I first met him, he was amazing. He walked up to me after I gave a talk at church to complement me on it, and I could see in his eyes that he liked me, or at least I convinced myself that he did… I wanted him to. Then after church, I had to lead choir practice for the first time, and he was there… he had an amazing voice, and he was so friendly, kind and talkative with the other members of the choir. I loved his beard and long hair, his short but stocky build. He reminded me of a dwarf, and I really liked that. He was different from the rest of the guys in the church. He seemed so outgoing, so caring, he loved life and he loved people and he wasn’t afraid to go against the grain.

I was infatuated. We both got a ride home with the same person that day, and we talked. I don’t even remember what about, but I remember liking everything he had to say. Before I got dropped off, he asked if any of us would want to go to a movie on Saturday. Since he’d targeted the question at everyone in the car, I didn’t want to get my hopes up, but I was the only one available, so it was going to be just me and him. It was a date! Or was it? I wasn’t sure if he liked me, or if I just wanted him to like me. Did he see this as a date, or just an outing with a new friend?

It didn’t matter, because the day before the movie, he called to tell me he had strep throat. Then, when I went to church he wasn’t there. I wanted to call him to ask why he wasn’t there, but I wasn’t sure if that would seem too forward. Then I missed church the next week, and I guess he was there, because he called me to check up on me and make sure I was okay. I wanted to believe that meant he liked me, but what if he was just like that with all his friends? He was very outgoing…

Then he missed several weeks of church, and I finally got up the courage to call him. I found out that he was stuck home with an injury… from his job. He was a professional wrestler. That gave me more to like about him. I thought it would be so much fun to go out together and just tussle, match his wrestling skill with my own judo skill. But I had to go home for Christmas vacation. What amazed me was that he called me while I was at the airport to wish me a good trip. I hadn’t expected that at all.

The whole time I was home, I wanted to call him, but I didn’t want to call him. I was afraid of these strange emotions I had never experienced before. I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to keep myself in check. Afraid I might scare him off. Afraid he might not feel the same. Afraid he did feel the same and we’d take it all too fast. I lost touch. I didn’t see him at church for a long time. Finally I confessed to a friend all the feelings and thoughts coursing through me, driving me insane. The friend suggested I take him some chicken soup. I didn’t know where he lived… I could ask someone at church.

I asked the Bishop, and found out that unbeknownst to me, he had gotten married. What a shot to my heart. So, he had thought of me as just a friend. And when we lost contact with each other, he married someone else. I had to move on, but now my heart and my body both were raging for affection. Everyone around me was pairing off, while I remained just me… all alone. I started actively seeking to find someone, anyone just to experience what it was like to have a boyfriend. I’d never cared about it before, but now I wanted it so badly.

I didn’t want just anyone though. I wanted him. Everyone I talked to or met didn’t meet my criteria. He wasn’t a member of the church. He wasn’t a wrestler. He couldn’t sing. He didn’t like animals. Without even giving any of them a proper date, I turned them all down. One after the other. Then I got a phone call. It was him. He was distraught. His wife had left him. He was at his sister’s, taking care of her three kids. He felt heart broken… and I was the first person he’d thought of to call.

I talked with him, comforted him, and we arranged a day for me to come over and visit. When I saw the way he was with those kids, and we talked and got to know each other even more, I knew I wanted him. I wanted to hug him, to kiss him, but what if he still just thought of me as a friend?

Finally, he told me I was beautiful. He asked if we could date. I had a month of absolute bliss. We went to the zoo, the park, we wrestled, we babysat for his sister together, we went bowling, he came to see me fly birds at the raptor center, we went to a college picnic, we went birdwatching, we went herping for frogs, we went to a movie, he helped me move out of the college dorms and into my summer home, we went for walks, he met my friends, I met his friends, we went to church together, we read our scriptures together, and I started spending more and more time at his place, later and later into the night.

He was always such a gentleman, so sweet, so kind, so helpful, so friendly. He would insist on opening doors for me, walking between me and the street, letting me wear his shirt or jacket if I was cold, paying for my meals when we ate out. He never made the first move. He always waited for me to hug him, to kiss him, to hold him. He always complemented me on my looks, my intelligence, my enthusiasm. He’d let me win when we wrestled. He was kind to others. He talked to everyone. He loved animals. He loved nature. He was great with kids. He didn’t care about money. He was so strong in his faith. He had such a great vision for the man he wanted to be.

We would have dinner together, watch movies, wrestle in his apartment, and talk. The wrestling turned into cuddling, the talking turned into kissing, and it wasn’t long before we confessed our love for each other. We knew we should wait, but we couldn’t wait. We set ourselves up. Spending time together, alone, late at night, making out, getting each other more and more riled up. We did it, and I got pregnant.

Things were really stressful, but it was okay. I had to tell my parents, we had to confess to our Bishop, we got married, way sooner than we had planned. He couldn’t wrestle any more once he injured his back. I couldn’t keep taking care of lab animals because I was pregnant. We didn’t have any work between us. We had to ask my family and the church for help. But it was okay. We knew things were going to be hard, that we had a long path of repentance and struggling ahead of us, but we had each other and a little baby on the way. We could do it together.

It’s been just over a year since I got pregnant, and he isn’t the same person. He’s not at all like he was when we first met, when we were dating. He’s bitter, hateful, angry. He’s racist, sexist, foul mouthed, and a bully. He pokes fun at people all the time. He cuts people down all the time. He likes to joke around, but all his jokes are harsh, rude, brass.

He’s always stuck on sex. He has to be able to turn me on whenever he feels like it, claiming he does it for me. He’s always making everything out to be somehow connected to sex, making everything dirty, profane, vulgar. Every woman is a slut. The only thing she ever thinks about is getting some “meat”, showing off her figure and taking every man she can get. Every man is after nothing but pussy.

He’s overprotective, paranoid, controlling, oversensitive, and vengeful. Everyone in the world has done him some wrong. Everyone deserves to die. Everyone pisses him off. I can never go anywhere or do anything without his ever watchful eye and his inquisitive questions. I can’t talk on the phone without him wanting to know everything that was said and frequently budding in. I can’t go anywhere without him cutting down what I’m wearing, wanting to know where I’ve been, what took me so long, who I was with, even when I was just running a quick errand. I can’t write or check my email without him wanting to know what I said and to whom. I can’t talk to any man without him being convinced that they are going to think I am hitting on them and that I am interested in them, or that they will be interested in me whether I’m interested in them or not and they will hunt me down so they can rape me. I can’t talk to any of my friends, because they are a “bad influence”, or they aren’t good friends, or he doesn’t like them, or they are guys and I’m not allowed to have any guy friends now that I’m married.

Once, he was ready to go outside and kill the kids that live in our building just because he’d had it with them throwing things at the window. I had to beg and plead with him in tears to keep him from doing it, and through it all, he said I hated him, called me a slut, a whore, a cunt.

He yells at everyone and chews them out whenever we go anywhere together. Cars that drive by always drive too close and/or too fast and he shouts after them. Calls them idiots, says he’s going to sue them. Anyone who comments on or says anything about our baby needs to mind their own business and “leave us the fuck alone”. Once someone just needed to get by us and said excuse me, and he chewed them out, because he thought they were being rude and impatient.

He’s always convinced that I’m going to desert him, just like his father, just like his mother, just like his first wife, just like all his friends. He gets upset over the tiniest little things, and whenever I disagree with him or try to convince him how silly it is for him to be upset, he flies off the handle at me.

Every black person is a “nigger” and doesn’t have the right to live. They’re all gang bangers looking for nothing but pussy. They think they own everything and can tell everyone how to run their lives. They are irresponsible and stupid and can’t raise their children properly. They all deserve to be put back into slavery or shot.

Any man who talks to us is trying to hit on me. Any woman who talks to us is trying to hit on him.

He’s always trying to have fun and goof around, but his idea of goofing around is to cut me down, cut himself down, cut everyone else down, put words in my mouth and then tell me I’m always assuming I know what he’s talking about.

We fight. A lot. Whenever his feelings get hurt or my feelings get hurt it escalates. I say one thing wrong, I have the wrong tone in my voice, I don’t react the way he expects me to, and we end up fighting. I try to get away. I’ll go in the kitchen, or the bedroom. He’ll follow me. He’ll call me a pussy and say I shouldn’t start something I can’t finish. He’ll say I don’t love him because I walked away from him. It’ll get worse… I’ll try to leave. Get out of the apartment to just get away and give us both time to cool down. He won’t let me. He’ll block me. Cage me in. Refuse to get out of my way. I’ll get more angry with him and yell at him, and he’ll get an enraged look in his eyes, raise his fist, and come after me. I’ll cower, he’ll stop, but then I’m terrified, and I just want to get away. I try to run, and he continues to block me. My only option is to try and push past him and/or hurt him. Neither one works, because it only enrages him more and he restrains me. The restraint frightens me more, and I struggle against it, only making him more mad. Eventually he beats me.

He has choked me so many times I’ve lost count. His me in the back of the head so many times I’ve lost count. Punched me in the face three times. Bitten me, smacked me, thrown me, beaten my back. Every time he comes to his senses right afterwards, and apologizes profusely, though he didn’t used to. At first, he always blamed it on me and said it was my own fault. I started it, I deserved it, I pushed him to do it, I made him feel threatened, he was just trying to keep me from leaving.

Once our son was born I thought it would stop. He wants so badly to be a father, to be a good father. His father was never involved in his life, left before he was even born. He wanted to have a big family and be the best he could be for his kids. So when our son was born, I thought he would do better. But he started losing his patience with our son. He would hold him right in front of his face and yell at him, spank him, tell him that he needed to start shaping up and behaving, to stop being so fussy, to control his spit up, to pay more attention to and spend more time with his daddy, to stop screeching, to stop squirming with his diaper changes, to stop scratching, to stop bonking heads with daddy, to stop lurching around. He didn’t at all act the way I thought he would, the way he did with his sister’s kids when we were dating.

And our fights just got worse. We started scaring our son. Once, he used our terrified son against me. We were fighting, and I couldn’t bring myself to calm down and let him near me. I didn’t want him touching me, but I wanted to comfort our son. He was holding him, and refused to let me take him without a hug. Another time, I thought he’d keep his temper under better control if I was holding our son. It had worked in the past when he was first born, but he choked me, and punched me in the head even though I was holding our son and I almost dropped him.

I have lost control of my bladder and peed myself on three occasions when we were fighting, because he terrified me so badly. Once he even threatened to come after me with a knife. The cops have come to settle our fights three times. Two of those times were because he had called the cops because he thought I was going too out of control and he thought that he and our son were in danger. I have never called the cops on him, despite everything he’s done. I have never hurt our son, and I have only hurt my husband when I was either defending myself or was feeling so terrified and caged in that I lashed out.

He’s still very sweet and loving. But he’s also very needy and wasteful. He’s constantly making unnecessary messes that he never helps to clean up and always chews me out or complains when I’m not keeping the apartment clean enough. He’s constantly begging for my company and attention and wants me to just sit with him while we lazily do nothing but watch movies, play games, and order fast food. If I ever insist on getting housework done, he complains that I am neglecting him. If I spend time with him in the living room while taking care of our son, but I’m not sitting next to him on the couch, he complains that I’m ignoring him. He always “needs” fast food, soda, snacks, and other various things that we don’t have the money for. He says we will always be able to get our son what he needs, but he finds his “needs” more important than our bills and can’t save anything. When we don’t have enough to take care of our real needs, he tells me to ask for more help from my parents.

I’ve had to start secretly stashing some of our money, just so we can start saving. I can’t even get a job, because whenever I try to go out job searching, or I have an interview, or I have work, he needs me here. He’s always too tired, too ill, or just too grumpy to take care of our son while I’m gone. I had a job. I lost it, because I could never show up for work. I finally got an interview for another job, had to reschedule it because he was feeling too ill, but as soon as I did reschedule it and stayed home he was fine. I haven’t gone to the interview yet, but now we have no bus fair and he wants me to call a church friend for a ride.

Anytime I go anywhere, he wants me to bring our son with me, and the only time I get to go anywhere while leaving him home is when I have to go somewhere that I can’t bring him with me. Only when it is completely unavoidable and there is absolutely no way I can bring him with do I get to leave him home without being guilted. When I leave him home when I could have taken him with though, it is always when he is asleep, but when I’m getting ready to go he’s practically begging me to take our son with me, and I get guilted for not doing so when I get back.

We have to do our laundry in the tub, and hang it up to dry it, because we never have the money to use the washer and dryer.

Whenever I’m too tired to stay awake and he’s not ready to go to bed, he guilts me about being sleepy, so I push myself to stay awake until I am so exhausted I just can’t anymore. Then, when I am sleeping, he keeps waking me back up just to tell me something, to turn me on, or to take care of our son.

We keep missing church because he’s either too tired or too sick, or I have a mark from him beating me that we can’t let people at church see.

He still has his ambitions, his hopes, his dreams. There are areas where I have seen him improve over the year that we have been together. He’s so very loving and affectionate. He wants and desires so badly to be such a good person. I used to tell myself that because of his great faith and desire he would quickly become this person he wants to be, but he doesn’t really want to do the work to become that person. Now I see, I fell in love with the person he wants to be, not the person he is, and unless he starts putting in the work and effort he is never going to become that person that I love.

I’m at a loss. All my imaginings and visions of my future used to be with him. I could see us raising our family together, growing old together. Now I see us apart. But can I really do it, do I really even want to do it? I don’t want to hurt him, and I don’t want to hurt our son. They love each other. How could I part them? And though he doesn’t always do the greatest job showing it, he still loves me. How could I break his heart? Am I just having doubts because of how much he’s hurt me, how much we are still struggling? He is improving, albeit very very slowly. Is our future still possible? I just don't know what to do anymore...

The manipulative behavior you have described in your husband is the same mine would use. He too managed to pin everything on me in some way shape or form. He too would use threatened suicide to get to me. He too would make threats or off statements about others that made me uncomfortable. He too seemed to get the "devils look" in his eyes when enraged.

However, you have expressed much more anger than I felt. The only anger I felt toward my husband was after I left, when he gave up on me. Him giving up was the sign that prooved to me that he never truly loved me, that he really was only out for control. If he'd really loved me he would have been willing to do anything to try and get me back. He wouldn't. Instead he threatened me with kidnapping charges. After writing something to vent my frustration, I was okay though. I found it easy to forgive him and even sent him the following email:

(Contained in my next post as the options on here said my post became too lengthy to include it here)

[JudoMinja]

I am sorry it has taken me so long to open any form of contact with you. I know you have emailed me on several occasions, mostly attempting to elicit visitation with your son, and I am sorry I have ignored those emails and refused to respond. I knew from several reliable sources including police officers, your probation officer, and my lawyer, that considering my circumstances I had done no wrong in taking our son and leaving. I was likewise committing no wrong in avoiding contact with you as I was under no obligation to respond and must allow myself time to heal and could reopen a line of contact once I felt safe and able in doing so, if that time were ever to come. I also understand that it is possible you may never even receive this email, but I am hoping it finds its way to you.

The last message I ever received from you stated that you now hate me and that I have put you through hell. Once again, I apologize for the emotional and physical turmoil my departure must have put you through. I know what a helpless state you were in when I left, and that is one of the reasons it was so difficult for me to make the decision to leave. I also know that my departure would have come as a very sudden shock to you, as everything seemed to be going so well before I left. For that, I am also sorry, for I had to play a part of deception in order to maintain that wellness when my heart was simply no longer in it.

Please understand that I hold no malice toward you. I never wished to do you harm and still wish you the best. While it seems backwards that my leaving would bring that about, that was my intent. I wanted to do what was best for all of us. Staying would only have done all of us more harm than good.

You have within you a spirit of anger you cannot seem to be rid of. You recognized that you were in need of help and that your behavior was abusive once it had taken its toll on me. I had become very volatile. I could not handle even the smallest of confrontations, for my fear, stress, and tension had me wearing my emotions on my sleeve. I had developed a temper of my own to defend myself from my fears, from the damage to my emotional state. I was terrified, and that terror caused me to lash out when tensions rose and a confrontation was evident. Yes, my own behavior at that point could have been considered, to some extent, abusive, and I am sorry for the way I reacted in our fights toward the end.

It took me being in this state for you to admit that some of the fault lied with you, that I was not all to blame for your behavior, that you were in fact abusive. While you admitted this, recognized your fault, and revealed a willingness to change, you stopped there. It was this that helped me realize you have always stopped there. You reach in yourself a willingness to change, but you lack the motivation and drive to elicit that change from yourself. It will not come just because you want it. You must work for it, dig deep, and pull it out. Change will come with much difficulty, fighting against the gnawing and gnashing of the evil one trying desperately to keep you coiled in his clutches.

You have never committed yourself fully to the complete transformation that is required to overcome your infirmities. You are ruled by the desires of the flesh. Your hunger must be satisfied with exactly what it desires exactly when that desire strikes whether we can afford to satisfy it or not. When that desire is not met, you are wasteful with the food your body no longer fiends for. Your sexual impulses must be fulfilled at all times. To do this, I had to always be aroused and ready for your bodily advances. You were caught up in the enjoyment of leisurely activities to the expense of work, study, spiritual growth, and quality time. You lacked the resolve to make it to church no matter the justification for missing a meeting. You lacked the resolve to do what was necessary to become temple worthy.

This was probably your greatest downfall. You joined the church under the false pretenses and impression that you could continue in your sins and such must be accepted, that you should be taken as you were and it was not necessary for you to make the effort to change. This is why you became angry with your bishop, why it upset you when others commented on your earings, your hair, your manner of dress. You believed you could be worthy of temple ordinances, even someday becoming a prophet of the church, when you lived with an attitude of “how much can I get away with?” – “how close can I get before what I am doing is sin?”.

I do not bring these faults and infirmities to your attention for the purpose of upsetting you, cutting you down, or placing blame. I bring them to your attention in the hopes that your eyes may be opened. There are many more errors, misdeeds, and corruptions in your logic and reasoning I could point out. However, I do not want this to bring you down, and I do not seek to pick at your infirmities. I understand that I have many faults of my own, and I do not wish to judge or begrudge you. I understand that my mistakes placed me in the greater error than yours, for even though you were abusive, I had sinned against the greater light of knowledge of the gospel. I knew and understood more than you, had a better example to follow, and I turned away from what I knew to be right. Thus, my faults were greater than yours.

I submitted myself to your will and indulged your desires. I had already begun my descent and slipped off the path of righteousness before even meeting you, and it was while I was in this vulnerable state without the guidance of the Spirit that I slipped into your arms. I also had loosed control over my physical wants and desires, my mortal flesh. I gave in to your pleading, conning, and justifications time and time again- in giving up my virginity, in continuing to have sex with you after we had confessed to the bishop and were awaiting our marriage, in your desires to watch inappropriate movies and waste away our time being unproductive, in allowing our talk to become raunchy and rude, in backbiting, gossiping, and finding fault in others.

If I had done what I had known to be right, I would have stopped before the first passionate kiss, I would never have allowed us to spend time alone in your apartment or my dorm room, I would have stood up and lived the standards of the church, I would have protected our honor and virtue. Perhaps we would still be together if I had done what was right. Our dating and courtship would have taken a slower pace, but we would have better gotten to know one another, we would have practiced self mastery over our fleshly wants and desires, we would have been productive and progressive, we would have sought repentance and rectified our other sins and wrongs before ever disgracing our virtue, and maybe we would now be married in the temple. It is also possible, that had I chosen the course I knew to be right, we would have fallen apart as we have now, only there would have been much less hurt and much less loss. However, I did not follow the righteous path. I rushed into things, ignoring the promptings I knew were meant to protect me, allowing what I thought to be love to guide me and tear both our souls apart. I am terribly sorry that I was not as strong as I should have been.

Please understand, with all these things taken into consideration, that it was necessary for me to leave. We were destroying one another. We were pulling each other down. We were weak. I had not the strength to maintain the barriers necessary to aid you in overcoming your weaknesses and practicing self mastery. I had not the strength to regain mastery of myself. I needed to get away from the conditions that were exploiting our weaknesses. I had to leave, so that we could both travel along the path of repentance and become whole again.

The letter I left for you explained what led me to the decision to leave. I had lost that spark, that hope, that feeling of faith and confidence in you. I lost my love for you. Your anger and abuse killed my love. I could not stay in a marriage in which looking on my partner only filled me with fear, doubt, anger, sadness, depression, and regret. I could not stay in a marriage in which I felt repressed, over-ridden, and that I had become a most bitter and terrible person. I could not stay in a marriage in which my every action and word was done and said in constant fear of displeasing you. I could not stay in a marriage in which I was fearful for my life and the life of my son.

I left to protect myself and our son. I left to give the three of us the opportunity to heal and make a better life than was possible had I stayed. I have been making the most of my time apart and feel myself renewed. I feel hope, faith, happiness, and understanding returning. I feel stronger and wiser than I ever have been in my life. I feel safe and secure. When I was with you it was as if I was wearing blinders. Everything was so confusing and muddled, nothing made sense, I thought I was going crazy. I realize now that it is because I was blinded by the lies of Satan. I was living a life in sin and could not escape without full immersion and commitment to the gospel. Now the lies are fading away and I see my life once again filled with truth.

The fact that I am gone and have not allowed you to see your son will probably make this difficult for you to understand and believe, but I know that I have done the right thing and I am finally on the right path and that path does not involve you. I have faith that it is also possible for you to find your way to the iron rod, should you find in yourself the strength and resolve to make the necessary commitment and put forth the necessary effort. However, my heart and soul have been damaged too much in our time together. I do not think my heart could ever find it in itself to build a love for you again. I feel the Christ-like love and compassion toward you as a fellow human being struggling to overcome sin, but I just do not have it in me to love you as a partner and companion. I also do not have it in me to trust you with our son. He must be protected from the pains and sufferings that I know would befall him should you not find your way onto that path, and the only way I can maintain that protection is if you are not permitted to spend time with him alone. I want to see him grow up strong and confident in the gospel, and I know such would not be possible were he submitted to your current controlling nature. Maybe you will be permitted supervised visitation or will see him when he is older, but I honestly think it would be best for all of us if you let both your son and myself go. We are a part of your past, a past that hopefully will help you find your way to a better future, a future without us.

I do not wish to hear from or see you again unless it is to inform me that you have likewise found the joy and happiness a righteous life will bring. I would love to know that you have progressed on the path of repentance and found yourself worthy to enter the Lord’s temple. I would love to know that you have found your eternal companion, a woman able to stand strong next to you and keep you on the straight and narrow. I would love to know that you have freed yourself from your bitterness, anger, and hatred. If that time comes, feel free to contact me and share your joy. Otherwise, please consider your son and I merely a stepping stone in your path, a piece of your life that has already been placed, a rut in the road of life. Know that we are happy and well, and your son will receive the care and love and direction he deserves. I will tell him of your love for him and that our relationship was simply misplaced and misguided. He will know that your uninvolvement is for his good.

I am sorry it had to come to this. I am sorry that we were unable to work things out and find progression together. I do accept my blame for the part I played in our difficulties, and I know that all this could have been avoided had I simply been stronger in moral fiber and sticking to the standards of the church. Prevention is the best protection, but I have better come to understand my weaknesses and can now build greater walls. I thank you for the learning experience that has permitted this growth of wisdom and understanding. I thank you for giving me the push and the strength to admit and confess my weaknesses and sins so that I could follow the path of repentance.

Please accept this apology and erase us from your life.

I was not planning on sharing my story in this much detail on this site, but I felt prompted to do so here, for you. I don't know what you will get out of this lengthy post, but I hope it helps. I will be praying for you.

[Guest mirancs8]

Wow! Thank you for posting your story. It's a lot to take in and I think your situation is WAY worse that what is happening in my life. I would have been so terrified for my life. I can't imagine my H beating me repeatedly like that and all the other stuff.

I hope things cool down for you. I will keep you in my prayers. I'm still in shock!

[JudoMinja]

Things have cooled down considerably since I've left. I'm in a completely different state now, so he can't even come here because he's on probation. Mostly now, I'm just trying to get everything in order so that I can take care of my son on my own and prevent repeating the same mistakes. I'm living with my parents while I do that, and they have been a great blessing and help.

Temporally, I should be ready to be on my own in another year- I have a little education to finish up and then I'll be able to get a job as a teacher which I think is one of the best options for a single parent. Spiritually, I have completed my own repentance process and am once again temple worthy, and I am sticking to the standards with far more resolve than I've ever had my entire life. Emotionally, I still have some healing to do, but I'm definitely far better than the state I was in when I wrote that first message.

While the intensity of what was happening to me was definitely worse than yours, the length of time you have been subjected to this abuse will have taken a tremendous toll on you emotionally. I am sure that is why your original post expressed so much anger. Recovery is going to take time, and it can only begin once he's out of your life.

Again, I only hope I've been of some help. Good luck and God bless.

[Maya]

IT is always a risk to come out with your own heartbreaking story, but it really CAN help people. Like I use to say: "If there is NO other meaning to my life so at least I am a living warning example to everyone else!"

I am so happy that you JN have had courage to face the truth and "taken your life in your hands". There are times when it is nessessary and times when it is not. Like I said I am sure your story can help people thanks for sharing.

[ascotan]

It sounds like both you and your husband had troubles from the start (precipitated by finances?) and it never got better. At this point my guess is that there is alot of mutual recrimination and fighting that the children are exposed to.

Clearly your husband sounds depressed, and in his own weird/twisted way, is asking for some sympathy with the "i'm gonna kill myself" line. Unfortunately, bringing a gun into the house is also a veiled threat. You do have a reason to worry whenever weapons are in the house. However, (as i'm sure you know), if things get too heated, anything can become a weapon.

Having stayed together so long it seems there is a grain in both of you that you want to work things out but never quite figured out how to do it. And now it feels too late? I gather that because on the one hand your telling him to get out, then you find him looking for jobs/women/etc and get upset....

I also believe that you think that once you are divorced there will be a great husband waiting for you out there (like the remarried woman you mentioned).

It could be. There are never any easy answers.

However, one thing is clear.

Both of you need to make a decision as to what direction your lives are going to take in the next couple of years. Do you see yourself married in 5 years with the same man you are living with now? Does he?

IMHO it's never too late for any relationship. However, you need to decide. What will you do? Discuss it. Talk about it. Make it a priority what you will do. If you find that the kernel you still have for him is viable, then make that decision. If not, then talk about it and make the necessary plans.

Whatever you do, don't keep ignoring the future.

Either way I would suggest you keep in contact with rational people that can help you make decisions. Everybody's situation is unique and you are ultimately the best qualified to make decisions for yourself.

[Guest mirancs8]

In response to your post to me.

"It sounds like both you and your husband had troubles from the start (precipitated by finances?) and it never got better. At this point my guess is that there is alot of mutual recrimination and fighting that the children are exposed to."

Actually yes we've had issues for a long time. We argue but I work very hard at the children not being exposed to it. Since I was a product of divorce and had experience parents fighting in front of me. It should be avoided! But he very often will start in front of the kids and I just try to avoid speaking to him.

"Clearly your husband sounds depressed, and in his own weird/twisted way, is asking for some sympathy with the "i'm gonna kill myself" line. Unfortunately, bringing a gun into the house is also a veiled threat. You do have a reason to worry whenever weapons are in the house. However, (as i'm sure you know), if things get too heated, anything can become a weapon."

He has some kind of mental illness but he's very had a diagnosis. He is a grand manipulator and is able to twist much if not all the issues on me. Taking the focus off of him and putting on me. He is very complex and I don't have the energy to even go further on this topic.

"Having stayed together so long it seems there is a grain in both of you that you want to work things out but never quite figured out how to do it. And now it feels too late? I gather that because on the one hand your telling him to get out, then you find him looking for jobs/women/etc and get upset...."

NO. I have no desire to work things out. I've been trying to work on it for years now and there is no point. He is only getting worse and more dangerous which makes this an extremely toxic relationship. I've been telling him to leave for years only this past year have I become very angry about it and pushing it harder. I want him out... PERIOD.

"I also believe that you think that once you are divorced there will be a great husband waiting for you out there (like the remarried woman you mentioned).

It could be. There are never any easy answers."

NO. Not true. I actually have been so turned off by him that the thought of getting remarried is off in the distance at this moment in my life. Now I would LOVE to find a great man and get married. I am very optimistic that I will! If I don't no big deal it wasn't meant to be. Right now I am so hurt and in so much pain it will take some time for me to heal. I am very fortunately to have some wonderful friends (while gaining a friendship along the way) who have been a terrific support to me (as well as me supporting them) emotionally. But I am in no way in some dream world thinking ow if only I had a husband like so-and-so has. Though that man might be idea for that person he may not be ideal for me. There is nothing more wonderful then to be in a healthy and happy marriage.

"However, one thing is clear.

Both of you need to make a decision as to what direction your lives are going to take in the next couple of years. Do you see yourself married in 5 years with the same man you are living with now? Does he?"

Yes I have. Order of protection was granted yesterday by the superior court and he is being served the divorce papers along with the Order of Protection in about 30 minutes. I am on my way out the door to get the kids out of the house so we can be safe. He is at work right now.

"IMHO it's never too late for any relationship. However, you need to decide. What will you do? Discuss it. Talk about it. Make it a priority what you will do. If you find that the kernel you still have for him is viable, then make that decision. If not, then talk about it and make the necessary plans."

Our situation is too late. He makes me physically ill and he has done to much to me in these past 12 years for there to be a point of return at this point. I deserve BETTER!!

"Whatever you do, don't keep ignoring the future.

Either way I would suggest you keep in contact with rational people that can help you make decisions. Everybody's situation is unique and you are ultimately the best qualified to make decisions for yourself."

THANK YOU!! I have thought long and hard and it has taken much time to build the guts to do it but I am proud of myself for taking the actions I have taken to protect myself as well as my children. Thank you to everyone here on the board who has been so vocal and supportive! I appreciate it very much!!!!

[JudoMinja]

I hope things go well for you, and you will be in my prayers! You've chosen a rough road, but don't give up. It will take some hard work, some adjusting, and a lot of healing. Hopefully, your husband is either cooperative or just leaves you alone.

This is a critical time for you to remember to stay safe! Most abusive men take the action of leaving very hard. They see it as the end of everything and will do whatever they can to regain control. Many end up killing their spouse. If you think it is even remotely possible that your husband will react in this way, take EVERY precaution to keep yourself and your children safe. Good job on getting the order of protection.

If you ever feel the need to talk about anything feel free to PM me. I know this will be a stressful time for you, and I want to be there to help. Even if you just need to vent, it's okay. Venting is a part of the healing process.

Reach out to any and all of your friends and family and whatever community resources are at your disposal. The more good helpful people you surround yourself with at this time the better.

Good luck and god bless.

[crazypotato]

Hi,

I just barely read your thread. Will you please read the book "Fascinating Womanhood" by Helen Andelin. I know your husband and marriage are a mess right now, but you do have kids. Lots of things and situations in your marriage are ringing a bell with mine. And it seems, from the outside, that getting a restraining order, leaving the marriage, etc. are reasonable choices. I am not asking you not to do those, but please read this book first.

Your husband sounds very immature, insecure, and manipulative. There are bells going off in my head while I read your thread about his behavior into easy things that can calm him down in just a few minutes. Read the book with an open mind and then try it.

I did, after planning for the umpteenth time to leave my husband, because mine was immature, manipulative, PA, everything was "my fault," never his, I was always cleaning up his messes and mothering him, he never appreciated me. . .

What you are describing is actually not that uncommon behavior in a man who feels like his woman hates him (I understand if you do), that he is a loser, a man who is ashamed of his own behavior but hasn't the guts to own it to you, a man that has never been understood by you. Men, some who really do horrible crap like yours is doing, can SOMETIMES do a turnaround, and so can the marriage. I know you don't believe me and I wouldn't either, but me, and one of my best friends read that book and it turned our crappy marriages and crappy husbands around.

Your husband may have the same personality type as ours. My husband is naturally very aggressive, very intense, and if anyone crosses him, he makes sure they lose the argument no matter what it takes - manipulation, dramatic behavior, escapive behavior to porn/other women, etc.

Please read this book and you can be mad at me - I will understand. You need to understand more how your hubby ticks and how you have been pushing his buttons majorly (without realizing it). I know I was busting my butt to work on our crappy marriage for 13 years with no success until I read this book. I went to counselors, bishops, left him, etc.

Just for the sake of your kids - I know right now you think divorce is your only option, but you will do that anyway if this book doesn't work. Just please read it and pray about it and try it! You can email me privately any time. I understand the rage, believe me, and the depression, and the loneliness, and the power struggles and the mind games. I have been through that. And we too never had a good marriage, not even at the start.

[Guest mirancs8]

Hi,

I just barely read your thread. Will you please read the book "Fascinating Womanhood" by Helen Andelin. I know your husband and marriage are a mess right now, but you do have kids. Lots of things and situations in your marriage are ringing a bell with mine. And it seems, from the outside, that getting a restraining order, leaving the marriage, etc. are reasonable choices. I am not asking you not to do those, but please read this book first.

I think I commented to one of your posts regarding this book previously on another thread. I actually read "Fascinating Womanhood" as well I read "The Excellent Wife" and the "Surrendered Wife". Yes indeed I read them, studied them, took notes, read them again, reviewed my notes, put it all into action. Ahhh yes it was a peaceful time where I felt so much more a woman... but low and behold something was missing! A husband who was engaged in the relationship as well as someone who would also be willing to work on himself so that we could work on our relationship. See I did all this for years always trying to better myself but when your spouse isn't willing well your change won't do much. It only works when both partners are working at it.

Sure I was very willing, obedient, spoke softly to him, listened more, and all around did everything to do right as a wife to the best of my ability. I put everything I learned into action. Unfortunately he never changed and I got tired over the years of trying to change me when it was him who needed to work on himself too.

Your husband sounds very immature, insecure, and manipulative. There are bells going off in my head while I read your thread about his behavior into easy things that can calm him down in just a few minutes. Read the book with an open mind and then try it.

I did, after planning for the umpteenth time to leave my husband, because mine was immature, manipulative, PA, everything was "my fault," never his, I was always cleaning up his messes and mothering him, he never appreciated me. . .

I went through that phase many times. Planning to leave but never doing it. Instead I would find a way to fix myself... become the "Excellent Wife". Unfortunately that wouldn't last very long as he was not working on his end so it was me becoming more submissive and him becoming more disconnected to the relationship. Yes he is VERY immature, insecure and manipulative and I am so elated to be taking the steps to recapture the life I once knew... the "me" I once was. I feel alive and happy for the first time in YEARS!

What you are describing is actually not that uncommon behavior in a man who feels like his woman hates him (I understand if you do), that he is a loser, a man who is ashamed of his own behavior but hasn't the guts to own it to you, a man that has never been understood by you. Men, some who really do horrible crap like yours is doing, can SOMETIMES do a turnaround, and so can the marriage. I know you don't believe me and I wouldn't either, but me, and one of my best friends read that book and it turned our crappy marriages and crappy husbands around.

Actually I didn't hate him for many of the years it was more frustration. I hated him more the last 2 years of our marriage as he became very unstable mentally and started to become erratic in his behavior. I did everything to make him stand tall throughout or marriage. NEVER once did I let anyone say anything negative about him as he was my husband and I would not allow it. This is the reality... he would have NEVER been where he was in his business if it wasn't for me. within a few years of being married he went from making 25K a year to over $125K a year because of me. I ran his businesses, developed and maintained is websites, did all his marketing, went out and made all the business connections so he could have a steady steam of income. Sorry but he is and will always be the loser in my eyes. I watched him in court over a week ago bold face lie under oath and it was an eye opening moment as to what a loser he really is.

Your husband may have the same personality type as ours. My husband is naturally very aggressive, very intense, and if anyone crosses him, he makes sure they lose the argument no matter what it takes - manipulation, dramatic behavior, escapive behavior to porn/other women, etc.

Please read this book and you can be mad at me - I will understand. You need to understand more how your hubby ticks and how you have been pushing his buttons majorly (without realizing it). I know I was busting my butt to work on our crappy marriage for 13 years with no success until I read this book. I went to counselors, bishops, left him, etc.

Just for the sake of your kids - I know right now you think divorce is your only option, but you will do that anyway if this book doesn't work. Just please read it and pray about it and try it! You can email me privately any time. I understand the rage, believe me, and the depression, and the loneliness, and the power struggles and the mind games. I have been through that. And we too never had a good marriage, not even at the start.

My ex-husband lacked the one thing I so desperately desired and that was being aggressive. For me a man has to be a bit aggressive. Maybe if he was he would have done more in his life. He was however very manipulative, dramatic, and heavily into porn and prostitutes (especially towards the end with the prostitutes). I forgave him time and time again... yet he would do it again as if it never happened. He lived in the moment and didn't have any ability to recall or acknowledge what he had previously done. I really don't think he had that ability.

Fortunately it wasn't me pushing the buttons it was him. The more docile, obedient, and submissive I became the more he would use that to his advantage to push my buttons. Instead he should have been saying wow she's really trying so let me treat her with the respect she deserves for working so hard at it to make me happy. No instead he stomped on me a bit more and treated me with less respect then before. So what I got for trying all those years was his porno, prostitutes, mental instability, mental abuse, and his constant belittling of me. My heart had been stomped on more then I care to remember in this marriage and I am so elated to be free of him.

I loved being married. Don't miss understand me. Marriage is wonderful and I am excited at the thought of sharing my life and eternity with a wonderful man. But I do believe there is a point of no return in certain marriage situations. When you have exhausted your options, you've given your all, and you have no other option available. When you have a spouse who is so removed from reality and themselves that they can't see what is reflecting back to them in the mirror. Living in such denial that they can't see that they also need to participate in making a change so to better the relationship.

With this said I do love those books and I have kept them so that when I do get married some day I can read them again. I do believe in a fixable or healthy marriage they are very useful. More women would benefit from learning to be a better wife to their husbands. Many women today forget the role they have in the marriage and what they must do to keep the fires burning and their marriage happy. I would highly recommend them all. "The Excellent Wife" also has a workbook which I have that really helps you to work on each issue. Each of these books has helped me to see what my part is and how I can be the best wife possible to my spouse.

I am very glad to hear that you were able to keep your marriage on course. That is always a pleasure to hear. I think marriage is a huge commitment and should not be taken lightly. Unfortunately there are times that couple should part ways as it would become to toxic. I did what I did not only for myself but for my 2 boys who are so much more content and happy now.

[crazypotato]

Mirancs8,

I am sooooo sorrryyy!!!! I of course did not know your full story. Never should a woman stay and strive to be a wonderful wife to an irresponsible man running around with prostitutes. I am sickened that you went through this, and I wish you the best in your new life to come.

My husband never got into prostitutes or business failures. He does have his other problems. I hope I was not so obnoxious to you that you will forgive me for my advice, knowing that I don't know you guys and you don't know me. I really love the FW book but of course you can't fix a jerk by being a good wife. It is all very sad. Of course I never meant to suggest that you live like that.

I was trying to make a point, because my friend and I that read that book had before: husbands into porn, toying with cheating, spending money like crazy, irresponsible, lying to us, avoiding us, heated and ugly arguments, manipulation, power struggles, public humiliation. I have had to forgive my husband for some absolutely terrible behavior, many years of it, but deep down he has a good heart. Your ex sounds like a bad guy. My husband hasn't changed inside, but after reading the Fascinating Womanhood book, I realized how I had enabled him so much by bailing him out on bills, covering for him when he was late to work or irresponsible, putting up with the porn, nagging him and trying to fix him. When I stopped working, stopped helping him with any money, stopped nagging, stopped trying to fix him, stopped monitoring for porn, then our marriage changed dramatically. He stopped blaming me for his problems, stepped up and became more responsible with money, stopped yelling at me, was more patient with my shortcomings. . .

I soooo hope that you will be okay after years of this. I have another dear friend that divorced her husband and she is so glad that she did. Years later she married a really good man and has a very happy marriage. Her ex is still the same. She and I talked a lot. She went to a counselor and really took a few years to process all the trauma she had been through before she was ready to be in a good relationship. I hope that after your trauma, you can have time to heal and are not so busy being a single mom that the pain just lingers. I hope you can take time for yourself to recover and build back up your strength because that takes so much out of a person. I really am not one of those women that thinks that if we are only good wives, our men will follow, but I have seen divorced people bounce back into healthy lives, and divorced people who don't.

Blessings to you!

[Guest mirancs8]

No worries crazypotato!! It's always hard on these boards because we don't know each other and much of what we post is very limited lacking much detail. Clearly we all are mindful of that. There is SOOOO much more that wasn't posted but much of what I post gives a general idea.

It's great that you shared your own experience and it can help those who clearly have a chance to save their marriages. I am all for saving a marriage if it can be.

I am actually doing great. Because I was doing so badly during the marriage being away from him has been truly wonderful. I feel refreshed, happy, excited about life, and ready to take any challenge that comes my way. I feel reborn! For the first time in a very long time I feel content.

Blessings to you as well!