What does "For ever" mean?


TruthSeekerToo
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I am wondering why the word "for ever" doesn't actually mean forever when used in the scriptures. Or does it?

Now, the actual definition of the word "for ever" is without ever ending, eternal, always, continually, incessantly or endless.

If I was a literalist I would be persuaded to believe that I should be keeping the feast of the Passover. Actually, I do plan on doing my own little passover feast this year, but I digress...

Ex. 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

• • •

17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.

• • •

24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

Why did they say "for ever" if it wasn't really intended forever? Since Moses knew all about Jesus why didn't they say "until the coming of the Son of God" or something like that?

There are also many statutes that are given "for ever." Why do we believe that forever actually didn't mean what it said? It seems kinda tricky to put a word that is not the intended meaning.

Lev. 16:29 ¶ And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:

30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the Lord.

31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.

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Short answer because I need to go, the Sacrament is tied to the older observances of the Passover (as well as Sacrifice by the shedding of blood), which ordinances and observances the Sacrament replaced. So, the observance continues, in spirit, except we no longer look forward to the coming of the Lamb of God, but remember that He came.

Regards,

Vanhin

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Not sure, but I think Vahnin nailed that one. I think our sacrament is meant to be in place of the passover. And your Leviticus quote I believe is in reference to the Sabbath day and keeping it holy, which we do.

The Levitical quote is actually speaking about a special day-the seventh month and the tenth day. We do not honor this particular day as a Sabbath. We don't afflict our souls and the priests do not make atonement for us.

The Passover was also to be kept on a specific day (days) of a specific month. It goes on to say it is to be kept as a feast for ever.

The sacrament is not a feast. We eat a piece of processed leavened bread. The scriptures are pretty clear that the bread should be unleavened.

17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations dby an ordinance for ever.

I believe it was unleavened bread that Jesus broke and ate with the twelve.

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Its also important to note that the bible is fallible and certain things could have either been changed or lost in translation. Are we expected to observe the passover in the eternities after this life? There are around 10 words in English for every word in Hebrew so choices had to be made when translating. The word "forever" may have been translated from something else that meant something a little different.

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The way we observe it is different, but the meaning is the same. When we partake of the sacrament, we remember the passover, which is in fact, the Atonement of Jesus Christ - “Christ our passover is sacrificed for us.” (1 Cor. 5:7) - and we do it by ordinance. Elder Holland taught.

Perhaps we do not always attach that kind of meaning to our weekly sacramental service. How “sacred” and how “holy” is it? Do we see it as our passover, remembrance of our safety and deliverance and redemption?

With so very much at stake, this ordinance commemorating our escape from the angel of darkness should be taken more seriously than it sometimes is. It should be a powerful, reverent, reflective moment. It should encourage spiritual feelings and impressions. As such it should not be rushed. It is not something to “get over” so that the real purpose of a sacrament meeting can be pursued. This is the real purpose of the meeting. And everything that is said or sung or prayed in those services should be consistent with the grandeur of this sacred ordinance. (LDS.org - Ensign Article - “This Do in Remembrance of Meâ€)

The Sacrament is, in fact, our commemoration of the actual passover, which the old passover commemoration was just a type of.

Regards,

Vanhin

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Its also important to note that the bible is fallible and certain things could have either been changed or lost in translation. Are we expected to observe the passover in the eternities after this life? There are around 10 words in English for every word in Hebrew so choices had to be made when translating. The word "forever" may have been translated from something else that meant something a little different.

Do you have any proof that the word "for ever" has been incorrectly translated in these instances?

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Hey there,

I looked the scriptures you quoted up in the German Bible and found out the following:

Ex12:14

14 Diesen Tag sollt ihr als Gedenktag begehen. Feiert ihn als Fest zur Ehre des Herrn! Für die kommenden Generationen macht euch diese Feier zur festen Regel!

Ex 12:17

17 Begeht das Fest der ungesäuerten Brote! Denn gerade an diesem Tag habe ich eure Scharen aus Ägypten herausgeführt. Begeht diesen Tag in allen kommenden Generationen; das sei für euch eine feste Regel.

Ex 12:24

24 Haltet euch an diese Anordnung! Sie gelte dir und deinen Nachkommen als feste Regel.

Lev 16: 29 Folgendes soll euch als feste Regel gelten: Im siebten Monat, am zehnten Tag des Monats, sollt ihr euch Enthaltung auferlegen und keinerlei Arbeit tun, der Einheimische und ebenso der Fremde, der in eurer Mitte lebt. 30 Denn an diesem Tag entsühnt man euch, um euch zu reinigen. Vor dem Herrn werdet ihr von allen euren Sünden wieder rein.

31 Dieser Tag ist für euch ein vollständiger Ruhetag, und ihr sollt euch Enthaltung auferlegen. Das gelte als feste Regel.

Well, every time it says "for ever" in the English King James Version it says "als feste Regel" in the German passages. It does not mean "forever" if I translate it into English. But "as a rule" meaning a rule that is firm and unshakeable.

I know that the German text is not the original one but it might be interesting to compare the two.

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Do you have any proof that the word "for ever" has been incorrectly translated in these instances?

No, I don't have any evidence of it. Thats why I said its an idea, or something that is possible. I never said it was absolutely true, just that it could be.

Hey there,

Well, every time it says "for ever" in the English King James Version it says "als feste Regel" in the German passages. It does not mean "forever" if I translate it into English. But "as a rule" meaning a rule that is firm and unshakeable.

I know that the German text is not the original one but it might be interesting to compare the two.

This is exactly the point I'm getting at. Though German is not the original language of the bible and therefore cannot absolutely prove anything specific, it does in fact prove the concept of mistranslation. All I'm saying is that we cant just take everything we read in the bible at face value because a lot of the meanings have been changed, whether maliciously or incidentally. Only in conjunction with modern day revelation and access to the Holy Ghost can the Bible be accurately interpreted.

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I'm pretty sure that Judaism considers it to mean "forever", based on a few conversations I have had. That is one of the questions a Jew might ask if someone tried to convert them to Christianity... How can I convert to Christianity and still be a Jew - meaning - still do those things that the Jews have covenanted and been commanded of God to do "forever", such as the passover?

I think it means forever, and at the same time, I think we have an answer for the dilemma. Just like the law of sacrifice. We still covenant to live it, though we don't offer animal sacrifices anymore. Instead, we offer a broken heart and a contrite spirit as a sacrifice, and we also covenant to sacrifice all that we have to the building up of Zion, even our lives if needed. It could easily be argued that we are required to sacrifice more now, so the law is alive and well among latter-day saints.

31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (Jer. 31:31-33)

The law will be in our inward parts, and in our hearts. No longer is avoiding adultery enough, we should avoid looking "upon a woman to lust after her" (Matt. 5:28).

Regards,

Vanhin

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I go back to Moroni 7:

22 For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting, behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing.

There's something there that the casual reader will never see.

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