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BrotherBear

Converting *from* LDS

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These is purely a hypothetical question, but humor me if you will. I'm asking hypothetically to protect the names of a friend who expressed interest in Christianity. From what little I understand of Methodists, what is the proper procedure for LDS conversion if this even makes sense?

Please don't jump all over me, I'm happy LDS, this is hypothetical. Thanks!

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You would have to ask a Methodist. But many churches (excluding non denominational) don't accept other forms of baptism so the person would most likely have to be baptized into the new church. Becoming a member of another church, would cancel the lds rights (Priesthood, baptism etc.) and is an excommunicateable offense.(not just going but formally joining another church.) However your friend can resign prior to joining another church which means they couldn't excommunicate them. It's really like being fired vs quitting the effects are the same.

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In a hypothetical situation, this friend has been a good friend at my ward and he's worried about the social impact and doesn't want to be ostracized. Again, all hypothetical. From my point of view, I wouldn't ostracize him.

Hypothetically, we're friends and would not date in the future nor marry. :P

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never heard of LDS practicing shunning, as Jehovah's Witnesses do. On the other hand, when religious communities are tight-knit, and someone formally leaves, there's probably some natural fallout. I'm guessing here, but I'm hoping it's an educated effort.

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Brother Bear, it is so surreal that you would mention this. I haven't been baptized yet but I am a seeker, yearning to know the truth. This morning I couldn't sleep and I found myself (moved by the spirit??) at a Christian church called Moody and I was amazed at what I heard. They said that God loves me no matter what I've done and that nothing that I've done in the past or future will make him love me any more or any less. They say that what Jesus did was to not only pay for my sins but "justify" me which means that not only are my sins forgiven, but the righteousness of Christ is imputed to me. They talked also of grace. Apparently grace has the power to save at the moment of believing but it also is a transforming power in the form of the holy spirit to change us (gradually I think) into being more like Christ. They also said that when God looks on to his chosen ones, he see not our flawed selves but Jesus, in all his righteousness.

This is heavy stuff for me and makes me think that there is some real truth here. Hope this helps.

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Whatever your friend decides to do, hypothetically, he needs to understand that the decision he is contemplating is a very serious one from the standpoint of the LDS Church. Wanting to leave the church without getting any 'fallout' is like wanting to get into heaven without having to obey God...it just doesn't work that way.

If your friend doesn't believe in LDS doctrine, then maybe he shouldn't be a memeber...on the other hand, maybe he needs some soul-searching prayers between himself and God.

I would never recommend someone leave the LDS Church, or any religion, on a whim...or even if they're going through a very troubling time in their lives (especially then). However I suppose there are times that it's the right thing to do. Ultimately it is between him and God.

As has been stated, it's a pretty simple process to leave the church, but there are inescapeable repercussions involved, and they must be kept in mind when the decision is being made. While the church doesn't practice ostracism formally, there will be members of his ward that will act on their own decisions, and it may appear as the same thing.

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Brother Bear, it is so surreal that you would mention this. I haven't been baptized yet but I am a seeker, yearning to know the truth. This morning I couldn't sleep and I found myself (moved by the spirit??) at a Christian church called Moody and I was amazed at what I heard. They said that God loves me no matter what I've done and that nothing that I've done in the past or future will make him love me any more or any less. They say that what Jesus did was to not only pay for my sins but "justify" me which means that not only are my sins forgiven, but the righteousness of Christ is imputed to me. They talked also of grace. Apparently grace has the power to save at the moment of believing but it also is a transforming power in the form of the holy spirit to change us (gradually I think) into being more like Christ. They also said that when God looks on to his chosen ones, he see not our flawed selves but Jesus, in all his righteousness.

This is heavy stuff for me and makes me think that there is some real truth here. Hope this helps.

That is an excellent point to make. One of the roles of the Holy Spirit is to testify of truth. Most Christian religions believe Jesus is the Savior. Whenever someone states this, the Spirit will be there to testify to those prepared to hear him that what they are hearing is the truth.

The LDS Church has never claimed to be the only church that teaches truth. The LDS Church has claimed to be the only church that teaches all revealed truth from God. It's a small difference, but a real one.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never heard of LDS practicing shunning, as Jehovah's Witnesses do. On the other hand, when religious communities are tight-knit, and someone formally leaves, there's probably some natural fallout. I'm guessing here, but I'm hoping it's an educated effort.

This is pretty much dead-on. There's no deliberate ostracization, but there can easily be a falling out of sorts due to the fellowship-oriented nature of the LDS culture. If you leave with serious intent, and especially if you formally resign, then the fellowshipping stops. This may or may not be a problem. It all depends on how involved you are in the Church's social network.

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There is no "shunning" in Mormonism, and any fall out will strictly be cultural and not spiritual. Essentially there are three options:

1. Request for removal of records

2. Excommunication'

3. Inactivity

The last one hasn't been discussed, but basically, you just stop going, and from time to time, people from the church will contact you, simply because they don't know you are no longer interested in having contact. Your records remain, and if the church discovers you have moved, they move your records to your new ward, and someone form the church may contact you, but often times you just fall through the cracks.

As, to the post about the love of Christ. That all falls within LDS belief, but the experience is only the first step. Remember when Christ said strait is the gate, and narrow the way. Well, do you stop walking when you get to the gate? No, you walk through it. This is done via the ordinance of Baptism, and is an outward sign of our inner conversion. Then we continue on the path of righteousness. We don't just sin and expect God to cover our butts. It's a path, not a bench.

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That is an excellent point to make. One of the roles of the Holy Spirit is to testify of truth. Most Christian religions believe Jesus is the Savior. Whenever someone states this, the Spirit will be there to testify to those prepared to hear him that what they are hearing is the truth.

The LDS Church has never claimed to be the only church that teaches truth. The LDS Church has claimed to be the only church that teaches all revealed truth from God. It's a small difference, but a real one.

Indeed. Line upon line, precept on precept. Brother Bear, maybe your friend isn't ready for the entire restoration. Maybe there's too many responsibilities for him at this moment. There are people who just quietly stop attending services and find something different (like my ex). One thing to warn him of though is that when people leave the church they tend to get a very negative attitude about almost everything concerning LDS. Are you prepared to tell him to leave your church alone if that happens?

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Becoming a member of another church, would cancel the lds rights (Priesthood, baptism etc.) and is an excommunicateable offense.(not just going but formally joining another church.)

Is this really true? I guess it does kind of seem obvious but I wonder why people must be monoreligious. If a person shares beliefs with multiple groups should they not be allowed to be members of all those groups?

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Is this really true? I guess it does kind of seem obvious but I wonder why people must be monoreligious. If a person shares beliefs with multiple groups should they not be allowed to be members of all those groups?

It is true. If you officially join another denomination, your membership in the LDS church is ended. The reason is that while there are many doctrinal similarities between the LDS Church and other Christian religions, there are also many differences on a fundamental level. The doctrine of the trinity being a prime example.

Keep in mind the questions during a temple recommend interview. If you join another church, are you really sustaining the general authorities, and so on...

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Brother Bear, it is so surreal that you would mention this. I haven't been baptized yet but I am a seeker, yearning to know the truth. This morning I couldn't sleep and I found myself (moved by the spirit??) at a Christian church called Moody and I was amazed at what I heard. They said that God loves me no matter what I've done and that nothing that I've done in the past or future will make him love me any more or any less. They say that what Jesus did was to not only pay for my sins but "justify" me which means that not only are my sins forgiven, but the righteousness of Christ is imputed to me. They talked also of grace. Apparently grace has the power to save at the moment of believing but it also is a transforming power in the form of the holy spirit to change us (gradually I think) into being more like Christ. They also said that when God looks on to his chosen ones, he see not our flawed selves but Jesus, in all his righteousness.

This is heavy stuff for me and makes me think that there is some real truth here. Hope this helps.

UH if you missed that in LDS... I have to say you dont know LDS faith.

Well some of the things that may make persons feel LDS dont watn to be with them is ... when on Sundays we are expected to go to Church our friends from other of Church expects us to not to go to Church EVERY SINGLE Sunday but with them to some activities like fishing, skeeing, walking, golfing .... they get agitated of our going to Church every Sunday and feel that we dont care for them.

Same with the meetings we are supposed to be in the Church in... cant we miss a meeting or two to be with our friend? Birthdays are usually on Sundays especially for older people. We areseen as if we do not to care as we attend the Church rather.

When talking about religion it is dificult to change our mind, to make us see the things in an other point of view as we know the truth. We rather walk away than confront an argument about religion.

As we been a lot together before because of beeing in the LDS Church, that ahs a lot activities for members, the persons levaing the church will feel forshaken as there is not much possibilities to meet as he ahs his own interests now adn we kleep the old one. No more visiting teachers, no more thsi no more that and n o more need to visit anyone.

To me it sounds very selfish to claim that LDS forshake their ex member friends or even try to avoid them, as there is just so many hours in the day. If a person from my Church would join an other Church, I dont think I would ahve the enrgy to keep up the friendship... then again I dont have any such good friends in Church. I would be sad ofcourse and say hi if I meet the person.

When that happened in my family. I was NOT the one truning my back on them. They may think so because of the above, but I was there all the time waiting for them to get out of her "bitterness". Now I wisit them but not on Sundays and I dont push myself at them.

If thy have something going on on a Sunday they say: Do you HAVE TO go to the church..... no I dont have to, but that is my biggest wish about Sundays. I am sorry, I love going to the Church. Besides I am never even asked to the babtizement of the kids or anything they do, so I dont avoid them, but they DO avoid me. I am not even ast to attend my kids marriage, or they dont have one, so they dont need to ask me. And then they say LDS is exclusing...

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never heard of LDS practicing shunning, as Jehovah's Witnesses do. On the other hand, when religious communities are tight-knit, and someone formally leaves, there's probably some natural fallout. I'm guessing here, but I'm hoping it's an educated effort.

In the few instances where I have witness this situation, it seemed to me that it wasn't so much a case of the persons being shunned as much as it was that they felt uncomfortable being around the active members. I don't doubt that there are probably individuals who go against the Church counsel on this matter and shun those who have decided to leave, but I haven't seen a lot of it. I agree with you, just adding a little more to it.

:)

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In an ideal world we would love members both coming and going. In all honesty, I have read enough posts to know this is not always the case. Sometimes friends, families and jobs are lost.

The good thing is that loving outcomes with mutual respect happen as well. When people have so much invested in a belief system, it becomes hard when those we know leave. I remember how hard it is on me whenever someone I was close to exited some aspect of my life. It calls upon my inner resources to wish them a hardy farewell and wave smilingly. That is sort of what we are asked to do when a fellow member leaves.

Once gone, the task is not to speak ill of them or assign unflattering motives for leaving. They are children of God. Sometimes we get lucky and they reenter our lives.

:)

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It is true. If you officially join another denomination, your membership in the LDS church is ended.

I didn't know this either. I have a friend who was /is LDS but a little while ago stopped coming to church and started to go to another church which was nearer to where she lived. She asked about having her name taken off records and was dissuaded from writing to request it. She hasn't been excommunicated even though she has now been baptised into this other church. Maybe our leaders are just hoping she'll change her mind and come back.

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Brother Bear, it is so surreal that you would mention this. I haven't been baptized yet but I am a seeker, yearning to know the truth. This morning I couldn't sleep and I found myself (moved by the spirit??) at a Christian church called Moody and I was amazed at what I heard. They said that God loves me no matter what I've done and that nothing that I've done in the past or future will make him love me any more or any less. They say that what Jesus did was to not only pay for my sins but "justify" me which means that not only are my sins forgiven, but the righteousness of Christ is imputed to me. They talked also of grace. Apparently grace has the power to save at the moment of believing but it also is a transforming power in the form of the holy spirit to change us (gradually I think) into being more like Christ. They also said that when God looks on to his chosen ones, he see not our flawed selves but Jesus, in all his righteousness.

This is heavy stuff for me and makes me think that there is some real truth here. Hope this helps.

In my experience on a couple of religious debate forums, I have found this to be the view taken by a good many of the ex-LDS I have encountered. There is a focus on a lack of activity or action on their part in gaining eternal life because of the love and sacrifice of the Lord.

Might I suggest that you use the self-less love and sacrifice of the Savior only as a starting point, please continue you on with the teachings of the Bible that indicate that those who love God will help their neighbors. And then consider the rest of the scriptures which talk about actions that true Christians will take as part of their walk with God.

:)

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I didn't know this either. I have a friend who was /is LDS but a little while ago stopped coming to church and started to go to another church which was nearer to where she lived. She asked about having her name taken off records and was dissuaded from writing to request it. She hasn't been excommunicated even though she has now been baptised into this other church. Maybe our leaders are just hoping she'll change her mind and come back.

That could be the case, and optimism is a good quality to have in most any situation, but I've been through this with a couple other individuals in the past, and it's how it happened then. Things might have changed since then, but once they presented their membership records for the other religion, their names were removed from the records of the ward/stake.

It's always good to see people come back after leaving the church, but even Heavenly Father doesn't want to compel us to be somewhere we don't want to be.

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Essentially there are three options:

1. Request for removal of records

2. Excommunication'

3. Inactivity

From what I've read about this, it seems a bit of a legal muddle. If I understand rightly, "apostasy" is considered an excommunicatable offence and (according to the Handbook of Instructions) requests for name removal should take second place to disciplinary proceedings. So I assume that requesting your name to be removed in order to join another church could itself be cause for refusing name removal and holding a court of excommunication.

Also there is some disagreement about whether refusing to remove a person's name and excommunicating them instead is even legal. Some say it violates Freedom of Religion, and that anyone so-treated would have grounds to sue the Church. Others insist that Freedom of Religion applies only to government, and that private organisations like churches can do what they like.

The best solution, I suppose, would be to request name removal but refuse to give any reason.

Edited by Jamie123

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All I know is that the Catholic church doesn't recognize any other baptism, so any convert would have to attend classes for several months. There are other denominations that recognize LDS baptism, so a potential convert would be accepted as a member if they chose to join.

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All I know is that the Catholic church doesn't recognize any other baptism, so any convert would have to attend classes for several months. There are other denominations that recognize LDS baptism, so a potential convert would be accepted as a member if they chose to join.

This is not quite true: I know for a fact that the Catholic Church recognises the baptism of the Anglican Church, but not (as far as I know) our other ordinances like confirmation.

As a rule, the Anglican Church recognises the ordinances of all churches that believe in the Holy Trinity, as laid out in the three Catholic Creeds (Apostolic, Nicene and Athenasian) so that would probably exclude Mormon baptism.

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In a hypothetical situation, this friend has been a good friend at my ward and he's worried about the social impact and doesn't want to be ostracized. Again, all hypothetical. From my point of view, I wouldn't ostracize him.

Hypothetically, we're friends and would not date in the future nor marry. :P

"Hypothetically" I say just let him go his merry way. Opens up room for the rest of us here who think you're cute to actually get our fan mail read. ^_^ Oh, and uh.. hypothetically my mail is all getting returned to sender. How could I Hypothetically correct such an issue? :huh:

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"Hypothetically" I say just let him go his merry way. Opens up room for the rest of us here who think you're cute to actually get our fan mail read. ^_^ Oh, and uh.. hypothetically my mail is all getting returned to sender. How could I Hypothetically correct such an issue? :huh:

Huh?

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There is no "shunning" in Mormonism, and any fall out will strictly be cultural and not spiritual. Essentially there are three options:

1. Request for removal of records

2. Excommunication'

3. Inactivity

The last one hasn't been discussed, but basically, you just stop going, and from time to time, people from the church will contact you, simply because they don't know you are no longer interested in having contact. Your records remain, and if the church discovers you have moved, they move your records to your new ward, and someone form the church may contact you, but often times you just fall through the cracks.

As, to the post about the love of Christ. That all falls within LDS belief, but the experience is only the first step. Remember when Christ said strait is the gate, and narrow the way. Well, do you stop walking when you get to the gate? No, you walk through it. This is done via the ordinance of Baptism, and is an outward sign of our inner conversion. Then we continue on the path of righteousness. We don't just sin and expect God to cover our butts. It's a path, not a bench.

lol The funny thing that Ive heard is that when someone is in active you keep meeting them assigning them hometeachers ect ect. Eventually theyll do one of two things, Theyll start becomeing active again, Yay!, or theyll ask you how they can can get you to leave them alone, If they do that you then give them that letter that says I nolonger want to be a member of the church 'your name here' if they sign thats there choice, if not then you now have an open door to start teaching them again.

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