Temple Recommend Condundrum

[MaMeeshkaMow]

This might be a little off topic but you know how they give you the thin slips of paper telling you your families to home or visit teach? Do you think it might be a good idea to have on that sheet the home teachers who should come to you? I have been in my ward for a year and a half and no one has come to us.

I also just got an idea to promote home teaching. Why don't the people you teach be the people that teach you? I think anxiety might lessen because there would be a certain level of comfort. Anyway, sorry to be off topic...

[Elgama]

Ask the EQ president who your HT's are and go round and visit em with a plate of cookies. I find reverse VT and HT is best way to get people motivated, make friends with them and help it be less scary.

After all the purpose of HT is to strengthen the body of the church by making us closer as Sisters and Brothers, if my real brother hadn't managed to come round and see me, I'd find away to help him or go round there

[Elgama]

Ummmm .... NO it doesnt. I did baptisms for the dead when I was 14. Oh wait you're being technical... yes I did have to be "recommended" by my bishop to go into the baptismal room. But I was speaking of the "real" grown up version of the recommend.

I held a limited use recommend every year - your personal worthiness is as important to perform baptism by proxy as it is to do any other work. Don't cheapen the Temple by thinking anything else if you are worthy to enter the Temple and can answer that question with a resounding yes and head held high the standards of worthiness are no less. I am certainly teaching my children not to defile to the Temple - I was shocked when i went the number of Youth that did not value their recommend as it was not the real thing - but it is.

[Elgama]

I wonder if perhaps you're letting the actions (or non-actions) of some people bog you down in your relationship with the Savior? To let someone 'cheapen' your temple experience because you know they don't do their home teaching the way you think they should means you are giving them control over you. As a wise person once said, 'Let it go, man'. You can only do what you can do.

Thank you for a great post - I will forever be greatful for the Bishop that spent nearly an hour with me doing a TR interview, he went through each question and asked about MY understanding of it, when I hesitated over the are you worthy to enter the Temple he sent me away to pray about it and not to come back until I knew and had a strong testimony of YES I AM WORTHY, knowing I can hold my head up high when I answer that question makes a huge difference to me when I enter the temple

[Palerider]

One way to improve Home Teaching in your area is for the EQ Presidency to give PPI interviews each and every month. This is not a interview to come down on anyone. This is a time to sit with Priesthood Holder and find out how his families are doing. This sometimes will help to motivate to do Home Teaching. The President needs to divide up among his councilors who interviews who.

[Palerider]

I have spent 10yrs of my life as a Bishop and Branch President. This whole time I never interviewed my Wife for a Recommend. This last time I served for 7yrs and I knew my time was coming to an end. A few months before I was released my wife told me she needed a Temple Recommend interview. I was looking for one of my councilors and could not find them. I looked at my wife and said come on in the office I will do this. We started with prayer and I will tell all of you this was a special experience. The spirit was very strong and we both got tears in our eyes. After going thru the interview I told her I wish I had done this years ago. If for some odd or strange reason I ever get called a third time I will make sure I give her a Temple Recommend interview when needed. When my councilor was called to serve as the Branch President I told him to make sure he always gives his wife an interview for her Recommend.

[Guest mormonmusic]

One way to improve Home Teaching in your area is for the EQ Presidency to give PPI interviews each and every month. This is not a interview to come down on anyone. This is a time to sit with Priesthood Holder and find out how his families are doing. This sometimes will help to motivate to do Home Teaching. The President needs to divide up among his councilors who interviews who.

We did these PPI's regularly. Brethren who refused to do home teaching would usually not show up for the appointment. One brother did home teaching the next month, and then fell into old patterns on inaction. We would also rotate counselors to interview these brethren, and also assign PPI's to counselors (assistants) on the basis of their relationship with the brother.

One brother went home teaching because he had a good relationship with one of my assistants. Lasted about 4 months. But then, my assistant moved, and this reluctant brother told me he wasn't' going to do it anymore.

I found the best experiences in PPI's were with the active brethren who did their home teaching. They were able to report on families, help me stay in touch with who had lost their job in case there were welfare issues that could be pre-empted, and also gave us an opportunity to strengthen and motivate the active brothers. It also was a great opportunity to discuss the work of the quorum and the various projects these active brethren were working on. One brother got a temple recommend after we discussed his lack thereof. The active brethren seemed to appreciate it.

I have question for PaleRider or any other current or ex-Bishops -- you've probably seen a lot of EQ Pres and HPGL's come and go. Did you ever see your role as also helping them stay positive and not-frustrated with the home teaching program? In one Ward I was in, the HPGL calling was a revolving door. No one lasted more than about 1.5 years, and the last two cited the frustration of the calling as the reason they asked to be released. It was also a reason I didn't last until the powers above decided to release me - I asked for the release. I lasted about 3 years and found I couldn't get the home teaching program to work. In spite of PPI's, good communication, decent relationships with the brethren, thoughtful assignments, and lots of quorum activities like service projects, socials etcetera.

One frustration I had was that our Bishop refused to take any action or get involved after we'd interviewed the same brethren repeatedly about home teaching, and their names were on the "not hometeaching for 3 or more months list". Yet the same pressures from the Stake continued. I'd felt I'd done all I could do, but it was still not good enough.

One stake president said 'spend your time with the people who want to be helped', so eventually, I just let these brethren alone to be what they wanted to be. To do more would've been overbearing and pushy.

Edited January 22, 2010 by mormonmusic

[Guest mormonmusic]

I wonder if perhaps you're letting the actions (or non-actions) of some people bog you down in your relationship with the Savior? To let someone 'cheapen' your temple experience because you know they don't do their home teaching the way you think they should means you are giving them control over you. As a wise person once said, 'Let it go, man'. You can only do what you can do.

AS I've said earlier, I don't have anything out for these brethren. We all have warts. My concerns were with the administration of the program which holds priesthood leaders strictly accountable for good home teaching numbers, when such leaders have so little control over whether brethren go. Also, when the people above are so unwilling to do anything to support the effort after the priesthood leaders' tireless efforts haven't born fruit.

Also, with the constant attention and time wasted being subject to motivational meetings on the subject, when I'm already committed as rank and file home teacher.

And it's a constant pebble in the shoe. Whether you're a leader or not, you sit through meeting after meeting meant to try to get people to do home teaching, and it's tiresome.

Yes, I'm not a leader anymore, so maybe you wonder why I care. Well, because I'm going to be priesthood leader again in some capacity; these calling always come my way. And even when not a priesthood leader, you still get subject to these calls to repentence and other spiritually-draining chastisements.

On the other hand, I appreciate everyones comments -- that questioning if others should have a recommend is sustaining your Bishop. I hadn't thought of that -- my wife thought it was a good point.

So, maybe I should reframe my question -- how can I overcome these feelings of deep frustration with this program? It's not like it's a temporary problem. Home teaching is a permanent program, and there are still decades of this to put up with, either as a rank and file home teacher who is worn out from all the coaxing and prodding in meetings that I don't need and am tired of hearing, or as a future priesthood leader that might have to deal with reluctance of brethren all over again, on one hand, and the unrelenting chastisements from the Stake on the other.

I'm all ears.

Edited January 22, 2010 by mormonmusic

[Elgama]

OK with every calling to teach in the church the responsibility lies both with the teacher and those being taught. Mormonmusic how many times when your HT has not come round have you gone up and invited them into your home, maybe for FHE, or dinner or even just a juice and biscuit or maybe a game of Basketball. How many times have you phoned to ask for help??? or have you waited for your HT to make the first contact? I am quite happy to simply know my VT are on the end of a phone when I need them, and will help when I need it, when they do that I have told them on busy months they can consider me Visting Taught,, just knowing they love me and care about me says more than any lesson I can read myself would. I appreciate that life does get in the way sometimes, and because I build a relationship with my HT/VT I also understand the reasons why sometimes its difficult for them to make it. So many people sit aroud bemoaning their lack of HT when they could actually do something to help motivate them - thats what we are therefore as brothers and sisters. If someone is down uplift and edify them

Make sure inactives get reliable home teachers who love them and let the active brothers and sisters help ypou motivate the rest

If every active member contacted their HT and invited them every month your numbers would really improve.

[Misshalfway]

So, maybe I should reframe my question -- how can I overcome these feelings of deep frustration with this program?

Now that sounds loads better. Cause the truth is when we are frustrated with something or someone, the real issue is inside of us. And trials like "folks who don't do stuff right" are really lessons in disguise that open gracious opportunities for our growth.

The programs of the church are a means to an end. I think its always a temptation of Satan to lose sight of the real goals behind why we do what we do. And as long as humans administer and participate in these programs, they will be always imperfect in one way or another. And you add to that all the personal journey's people are on and the God given struggles people battle through and then all their personal agendas and expectations .....Holy smack! the ability to measure success will always be elusive. And God will always be the only one who can see it all clearly.

Let go of the need for everything to run as you think it should. Learn to enjoy and find meaning in the imperfection and in the beauty of the quirky people God puts in your path. You could even thank that man for not doing his hting for 20 years because dealing with him taught you to be more loving.

Maybe even change the way you measure success. Controlling people or outcomes may produce a nice report at the end of the month but the real goals of God will never be accomplished this way. That's why we are put on this crazy earth with all of its contradictions and disparities and frustrations. And worrying about it will only give you and everyone else an ulcer!

At the very least, give yourself the gift of not solving problems that are not yours to solve. Let go of it. Live in the now. Enjoy the blessings of the now. Live in gratitude for the now! If some program in the church actually works well for a time, then its gravy and we can all dance in the street. But even that is elusive because happiness is found in the journey. Not in the achievement of all the 'shoulds'.

Forgiveness works better than frustration. Don't you think that is what Christ keeps trying to beat into our thick heads?

Edited January 22, 2010 by Misshalfway

[rameumptom]

As a wise person once said, 'Let it go, man'. You can only do what you can do.

Thanks for quoting me, John. But you can always just reference me directly, since I'm rather fond of direct applause....

[rameumptom]

The way to deal with frustration with those we feel are not fulfilling their Church responsibilities:

1. Look first at yourself. See if you've sufficiently removed the beam from your own eye, before you try to remove the mote from another person's eye.

2. Learn to forgive and love. People are mortal and weak in the flesh. All of us fail, some more than others. Often people have reasons for their failures, but we may not know the full reasoning behind it. Perhaps they are terrified. Perhaps they are lazy. It doesn't matter. Just learn to love them in spite of themselves.

3. Pray for the person. If you feel a person is falling down in their calling, seek to help them succeed. Bishops get tons of criticism, but little thanks (except from the primary children when he hands out candy). Home teachers are all people who need prayers. We all think to pray for the prophet, and perhaps our bishop. When was the last time we prayed for our home teacher?

4. Call your home teacher and give him an update on how you are doing. While you are at it, feel free to invite him over for dinner.

5. Learn to focus on other things. Lose yourself in service, rather than focusing on what others can't/won't do for you. You'll get much more rest.

[MaMeeshkaMow]

I think fear is a huge issue. We fear we are going to fail, that we might not click with the people we teach which would lead to social awkwardness, that we are not making a difference. I know someone whose fear of public speaking applied even to home teaching...we are in an era of increased anxiety and fear. The Devil loves for us to be afraid, to be anxious....It's so hard to let go and hold to faith but I know once you put trust in God, He takes over and miracles flow out.......then sometimes we forget these experiences and the fear cycle begins. I think for some people maybe having one spiritual experience (a great home teaching lesson that brought the Spirit) is perceived to be enough, that those spiritual tanks are full and so further teaching is not required. Another tactic of the Devil: making us think we are satisfied, that we are done.

The problem is we need to fill up those spiritual tanks quite often. When we think we don't need more, another tactic of the Devil comes in : Pride.

We are all being attacked on a spiritual level and I would say psychological level (even though the Devil can't speak in our heads so to speak) and so that points to me that home teaching is Godly inspired and good for the whole (the teachers and the families).

[Blackmarch]

If you were a Bishop, and a brother comes to you for a temple recommend -- what would you do in this following situation?

This brother pays tithing, keeps the word of wisdom, but tends to be VERY inconsistent and underperforming in his or her callings, unreliable - usually does them at first, and then peters out after a month or two, in spite of strong support and training and encouragement. Been that way for over a decade.

Eventually he's released for non-performance. Comes to Church twice a month or so, but goes to Priesthood only once in a while, maybe once every 6 weeks or two months, sometimes longer. He never volunteers for priesthood projects, and if asks says "I'll come if I'm available", but is never available.

He accepts home teaching assignments, but rarely does them. He's been put with a strong companion, but always has excuses about why he can't go. He might go with his companion to see one family every two or three months, leaving his companion to figure out how to see the other 4 families on his list. Priesthood leaders have interviewed him repeatedly about home teaching, and he always says he's not comfortable talking to people he doesn't know, so he doesn't like home teaching. There have been attempts to put him on to families he knows, but even that doesn't work -- he still doesn't go.

A veteren of the Ward indicates this brother has never done much home teaching in over two decades. He's been asked, and there's no health or other reasons why he doesn't go.

You're a Bishop, and this brother comes to you asking for a temple recommend renewal. You know his full history -- in fact, he's your companion for home teaching!

He's been on the "hasn't been home teaching for 3 months" list many times now when Priesthood Leaders report on home teaching in PEC. You ask "Do You Support Your Local Leaders" and he responds "Yes". He also replies "Yes" to "Do you attend your meetings?".

Would you give him his temple recommend? How would you handle this situation? Do you think temple recommend holding should be tied to a certain minimum standard of home teaching as evidence of supporting local leaders?

I don't see anything there, letter of the law wise that would exclude him from the temple... but this would be tough. I would ask him how he feels his worthiness to enter the temple is... and then if he believes he is worthy (on top of all the other qualifying questions) to enter the temple I don't see anything right off the bat that would prevent me from giving the recommend.

If he says that there are thigns that makes him feel unworthy then we would go over those point by point if necessary. I imagine that the most likely outcome would be putting off the recommend for a little while and give him a challenge to meet. I think if I knew about this individual beforehand to have assigned effective home teachers to visit him or do something to find out a little more about his situation.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Blackmarch

[mrmarklin]

I just renewed my recommend last week, and the meetings question is more specific that I had remembered: it asks specifically if you attend your"Priesthood and other church meetings." That's something to take into consideration.

I honestly don't know if I'd renew the recommend or not, if it was me. I'd have a very frank, open, and honest discussion with him, and see where that led. I'd stop him after he stated that he supports his local leaders, and talk about his lack of commitment to his callings. I don't really know otherwise, though.

FYI there are very lax standards as to "activity". Attendance of once a month is considered "active" by church standards.

The only required meeting AFAIK is sacrament meeting.

Also the Bishops are more or less confined to the official questions on the list. Unless they know of some circumstance that would make this person clearly ineligible, the recommend would be issued.

[Misshalfway]

FYI there are very lax standards as to "activity". Attendance of once a month is considered "active" by church standards.

The only required meeting AFAIK is sacrament meeting.

Also the Bishops are more or less confined to the official questions on the list. Unless they know of some circumstance that would make this person clearly ineligible, the recommend would be issued.

This is the first time I have really heard of an official definition of activity. Is it really once a month?

And do bishops think this when they ask the "attend all your meetings" TR question? attendance to sac meeting only?

Thanks.

[mrmarklin]

This is the first time I have really heard of an official definition of activity. Is it really once a month?

Thanks.

Yes, it really is fairly lax. In fact it's even laxer than I stated, although I can't remember all the parameters. I found this out several years ago when I had a Stake mission executive calling.

[Misshalfway]

Yes, it really is fairly lax. In fact it's even laxer than I stated, although I can't remember all the parameters. I found this out several years ago when I had a Stake mission executive calling.

Where did you get these parameters? Is this someones interpretation or opinion?

[john doe]

I always heard full activity defined as attending at least 3/4 of the meetings you should be attending unless work or other circumstances prohibit that. There is leeway for interpretation. I would imagine that once a month would be a standard minimum as 'active' for most individuals.

[Palerider]

This is the first time I have really heard of an official definition of activity. Is it really once a month?

And do bishops think this when they ask the "attend all your meetings" TR question? attendance to sac meeting only?

Thanks.

Here in our Stake while I was serving it was defined as twice a month and still is that way today...:)

[Palerider]

My Councilors were confined to interview pretty close to the questions....however, If it was me doing the interview, I could and would ask all the questions and if I wanted to speak with them about something else I would. As I mentioned earlier, anytime interviewing a member, it is a teaching moment....:)

[ferretrunner]

Willow: I wanted to say something about home teaching – especially home teaching someone like you. I love home teaching. I believe home teaching is one of the most inspired opportunities among the saints. I would love to home teach someone like you.

Some things I love about home teaching:

. I love blessing someone’s home and family through the priesthood. I am more grateful to be entrusted with this than most anything.

. I love being called in the middle of the night to come give someone a blessing.

. I love seeing the families I home teach at church. Especially the youth and children.

. I love it when I am ridding my bicycle and I see someone I home teach (especially youth) to waive at them and hear them say to their friends, “Oh that just my home teacher.”

. I love it when someone I home teach comes to me and says, “Can I ask you a question?”

. I love it when someone I home teach recognizes me in public and says, “Hi brother M_____”

. I love running into someone I use to home teach.

I would add that I am not a 100% always there each month. Sometimes my travels take me away and schedules just do not mesh.

What I do not like about home teaching.

. Families thinking I came just to give them a message or expecting a spiritual message every time I show up.

. Priesthood leaders that think it is up to the home teacher to discover any problems the family is having.

. Asking if there are any problems

. Families that do not like their home teacher or are too busy to be bothered with a friendly visit from their neighbor.

One last note: I believe we are asked to home teach and perform other callings mainly because we are too lazy to do much of anything unless we are asked. Few would even think about visiting some member neighbor unless we are pushed into it with a calling.

The Traveler

Traveler,

Can YOU be my home teacher? j/k. I met one of my home teachers today at work (of all places). I was one of those inactive members who moved. And the Church somehow found me again. This is almost freaky. Sorry, a bit OT but it was weird.

[Misshalfway]

Here in our Stake while I was serving it was defined as twice a month and still is that way today...:)

So what you are all telling me is that its subjective. :) Which maybe it should be.

[Palerider]

So what you are all telling me is that its subjective. :) Which maybe it should be.

I believe it could be. We have to remember that Stake Presidents have alot more authority in their Stake than they use to yrs ago. I know that here in the Cape Girardeau Missouri Stake its 2 times a month at least.

[Guest mormonmusic]

OK with every calling to teach in the church the responsibility lies both with the teacher and those being taught. Mormonmusic how many times when your HT has not come round have you gone up and invited them into your home, maybe for FHE, or dinner or even just a juice and biscuit or maybe a game of Basketball. How many times have you phoned to ask for help???

Perhaps the gist of what I was saying was lost in the threads above. I was taking the perspective of a leader expressing concern about lack of home teaching in general, scarce results in motivating brethren, and wondering if home teaching could be tied to temple recommend-holding. Since all other kinder methods of motivating brethren to suppor their bishop this way had failed in my Ward.

My comment wasn't about frustration with my own home teacher, or about a specific brother, although many could fit into the scenario I painted at the outset.

Personally, I've not had a home teacher in years. As a HPGL, I didn't even assign one to myself because we were doing OK and there were people with needs far greater than our own (the elderly, single mothers with welfare issues, new members, people on the verge of coming back to Church, etcetera).

As a follow-up. I decided to go to priesthood meeting in spite of the severe call to repentence on home teaching the week before by the Stake. (As I said, I do my home teaching, but I get tired of the calls to repentence and frustrations of the program administratively). Our Bishop, I heard, shut the Stake down in a meeting when they started in on the Ward leaders about home teaching. He indicated a plan was in place and that time was needed to show results.

And then, in Priesthood opening exercises, there was no mention of home teaching. IN HP meeting, there was only a gentle reminder we only had a week left to do our home teaching.

No chastisements, no frustration, just a gentle reminder. It was a breath of fresh air!

I think the Ward did a save on the situation.