The Cycle Of Abuse In My Marriage

[mililani]

First of all, thank all of you who have offered support and advice for my situation. I have found strength in your words and carried out your advice. I have been able to stand my ground through the abuse itself this time (First time in 13 years!) thanks to you! And thanks to my Heavenly Father who led me to this forum while I was desperately searching LDS web sites for instruction. This next part of the cycle of abuse is upon me and this is probably where I need the most reinforcement.

Now that the fireworks are over, my husband is apologetic, sweet, is actually acknowledging his wrongdoing. (Although in our situation, in a few months he'll tell me I exagerate and this explosion was nothing as I remember or, it didn't happen like that or, if I didn't do whatever I did he never would have been mad or said the things he did, etc. So I feel that right now is crucial for me to do something different to break this cycle. I know, I know, all of you are saying ...yes, do something......leave.

Yes, I want to, I will, but I also know timing will be everything. And if a divorce is inevitable I need time to gather proof etc. so it does not come down to he said, she said. This is for my four children!

This is where I need you! He called us home from my parents house last night. He told me that this past 5 days we were gone he realized that now he does not want a divorce he loves us very much. He will do anything to make it work. He spoke to the kids and asked them if they wanted to come home to be with him. He told each of them he loved and missed them. (He thinks counseling is useless and he doesn't think people who work for LDS Social Services know their stuff and they will just advise him to go to church, pray, read scriptures, etc.) But we have an enormous house with an enormous payment and the Bishop will not help us financially to see somebody outside Social Services. Our insurance dosen't cover counseling services.

He has been very affectionate with me. He keeps hugging me from behind and kissing the top of my head. Rubbing my shoulders. Hugging me and trying to passionately kiss me but I've stuck to pecks. I did not sleep in the same room as him last night. This is different for me because I've usually been anxious to get the tension out of my home and been quick to forgive. I'm not being cold or rude, just distant, or maybe depressed. He offered for the first time in marriage to go grocery shopping with me as there was nothing in the house. He got $100.00cash back and gave it to me for gas and groceries as he will be out of town next week. This is the first time he's given me cash and especially this amount of money! He's left two msgs. for me today telling me he's glad I'm back and he loves me.

Sorry my posts are so long - But what I need help with is; I have to find out how deep into pornography he is. I have to find a way to see our bank account and find out how much money is there and if I can gain any access. (He has canceled his debit card and recieved new with new pin #'s five times in two months because he's paranoid I've figured it out-I've never even tried....) I have to gather proof of stuff although I'm not sure what proof I need of what. I need to push him into getting help while he's feeling remorseful.

The hardest part of this is that I cling to the hope that one day he will return to be the man I married and not this strange monster I tolerate but fear. The pornography is an 10+ year battle. His anger, rage, and abuse has escalated each year. My fear of him and his potential has also increased as his threats are also intensifying. I'm terrified for the next time, as I don't believe I'll live through it.

Edited January 22, 2010 by mililani
More to write

[Misshalfway]

So what does "breaking the cycle" look like to you right now? I think all of us are scared to see you stay one more minute. I guess gathering proof is important, but it scares me that the abuse might have to continue for you to gather it.

[Honor]

Gather what proof you can from the experiences that you have already had. DO NOT let anything worse happen just for the sake of documentation. You're already anxious over your personal safety with him, and you already have plenty of reasons why. Examine what you've already got before putting yourself and your children back into an abusive situation. SO many attorneys offer free consultations. Talk to as many as you can and you'll know where things REALLY stand legally. Don't make these assumptions on your own. Abuse has ALREADY happened weather you have proof of it or not. What you and your children have witnessed counts for something already. I know it's easy to be blinded when he makes things so much more comfortable and nice at home again, but PLEASE be safe! His unwillingness to speak to a counselor (LDS or not) is a HUGE red flag! It sounds like he is content to sweep everything under the rug in a way and pretend like things can be fine without making any changes to the situation. Trust me - it wont work. Misshalfway is right. Breaking the cycle means making changes and he's not. He's just trying to eliminate your worries and get things back to the way they were before when he had more control over the situation. Please dear sister, I know you want this to work, but doing (or putting up with) ANYTHING to make it work is NOT the way our Heavenly Father intended our marriages to be There is a limit and I guarantee you, as a perfect Father, he would not want his daughter to put herself (and His precious children in her care) in an unwise/dangerous situation over and over again.

[mililani]

In a Bishop's blessing last week for my 10 year old son he emotionally stated, "God has shed tears for you and your siblings." I cry everytime I think about this

[Misshalfway]

The hardest part of this is that I cling to the hope that one day he will return to be the man I married and not this strange monster I tolerate but fear. The pornography is an 10+ year battle. His anger, rage, and abuse has escalated each year. My fear of him and his potential has also increased as his threats are also intensifying. I'm terrified for the next time, as I don't believe I'll live through it.

I think you feel this way because you are a good person down to your core. But honey, this might be toxic hope. Can you see that? I think its the fog of the abuse that prevents you from seeing clearly. If I were your best friend and you saw me being hurt and setting myself up for hurt again, what would you say to me? Wouldn't you tell me to get out and get free? Wouldn't you tell me not to abide for one more second?

Porn recovery, for someone who is contrite, is 3-5 years. Some women have to separate from their spouses just to deal with the toxicity from that. You, on the other hand, have a multi-demontional problems and no part the cycle is good for you.....even the parts that feel intoxicating or that convince you there is hope. It's just the flatterings of the manipulation trying to fool you. At least that is how it appears to me.

[ryanh]

This isn't just a he said / she said thing. While I wouldn't advise trying to get your 10yo son in the middle of things, he is also a witness that a judge would rely on. Get your parents, sister, or even the Bishop to pay for your son to see a counselor so the husband doesn't know about it. The counselor can 1) help him deal with that horrid thing his father did, and 2) document the validity of the experiences.

I feel to be stern with you Mililani. You are clearly a good and sweet person. But it was wrong to go back in my personal opinion. Did you go back without the digital recorder I have suggested a couple times? That would be the key item to obtaining any proof - far safer than bruises or gunshots. Documenting the pornography won't do anything for you legally or protect your physically.

Have you gone to see a lawyer yet? They can best advise how to document, how to get access to the bank accounts, etc, etc. This is the third (or fourth?) time I've suggested involving an attorney as they are the only ones qualified to answer these questions. I know $100 isn't enough to see an attorney. And this is just how he wants it - to keep you trapped and helpless. Borrow from family. Borrow from a ward member. Talk to the bishop. Do SOMEthing. See a domestic violence counselor about how to get an attorney without money in hand.

Going back was not wise. You had power over him. You gave that power back in large part.

I have no questions in my mind. You should get a lawyer, get a protective order to get him out of the house yesterday, get access to your half of the money in the account, get a support order in place so that the mortgage and food are paid by him, and then see where it goes from there. Getting those things in place doesn't absolutely mean a divorce will happen. You can still make a choice at that point. But, without doing that, you have no choice, but to wait until you are hurt, or even killed.

The time to act is NOW while he is remorseful.

As I suggested in a PM, cover all your tracks on the computer. If he is that paranoid and controlling, it is a good bet he checks on where you have surfed on the web.

[JudoMinja]

If his remorse is TRUE remorse, he should be willing to seek outside help. He should be willing to do whatever YOU say needs to be done to make things right again. In a situation like yours, it just plain isn't safe for you to be there with him, as many on here have voiced.

If both of you really want to work things out, one of the best things you can do is separate yourselves from the toxicity of the relationship, seek out counseling and healing where you are safe, and when you have recovered give it another try. If he isn't willing to do this, then he isn't willing to fix things. He just wants to lull you into a false sense of security so he can exhert his power over you again and get you back under his contol.

Being apart from each other is the key. It is not possible for a relationship in the state yours is in to heal on its own, and it takes time. You cannot give him that time when doing so increases the chances that you or your children will be hurt. If he can recognize that separation is necessary for your safety and that he needs to get himself better BEFORE you take a step back into the relationship, there may be hope. MAY be. There is still much to be done, and it is possible that too much damage has already been done.

No matter what, get out of there and stay out of there. You can all heal in a safe environment, individually. You need to focus on your healing process and taking care of your kids. He needs to focus on his healing process. At that point, you can still decide. You may decide to give it another go, or you may decide to end the relationship.

Never forget that the most important thing is safety. If you do not FEEL safe, you AREN'T safe. Trust your instincts. Trust your gut. Trust the spirit. Without safety, there is nothing, and if you fail to keep your children safe you will always regret this opportunity you had to get away.

[Guest mirancs8]

mililani, of course my situation isn't nearly as bad as yours is it was very similar. I feel so badly for you but at the same time if you want to stop the cycle of abuse you have to take action. Leaving someone can be the most difficult thing to do in your life... yet at the same time it can be the most freeing.

Keep strong and take heart the advice of those on the board here who really do care about you very much.

[NeuroTypical]

he doesn't think people who work for LDS Social Services know their stuff and they will just advise him to go to church, pray, read scriptures, etc.

I can speak to this from personal experience. The counselors that work there are trained professionals - not self-righteous religious zealots. My wife saw one there for a year - I don't think church attendence or prayer ever even came up.

Yeah, hubby 'doesn't think' it would be worth his time. But he'll never know until he shows up and gives it a try.

LM

[Misshalfway]

Originally Posted by mililani

he doesn't think people who work for LDS Social Services know their stuff and they will just advise him to go to church, pray, read scriptures, etc.

Now that the fireworks are over, my husband is apologetic, sweet,

I think that all of this coming from him is just noise.

[Faded]

I know, I know, all of you are saying ...yes, do something......leave.

---

Yes, I want to, I will, but I also know timing will be everything. And if a divorce is inevitable I need time to gather proof etc. so it does not come down to he said, she said. This is for my four children!

---

I have to gather proof of stuff although I'm not sure what proof I need of what. I need to push him into getting help while he's feeling remorseful.

The hardest part of this is that I cling to the hope that one day he will return to be the man I married and not this strange monster I tolerate but fear. The pornography is an 10+ year battle. His anger, rage, and abuse has escalated each year. My fear of him and his potential has also increased as his threats are also intensifying. I'm terrified for the next time, as I don't believe I'll live through it.

What it all adds up to: He doesn't sound like he sincerely wants to change, but he'll go through the motions to keep you coming back. It doesn't sound like he's willing to take any accountability for his behavior. He has followed you around, checked phone records, accused you of cheating and driven your friends and loved ones away.

It's stereotypical abusive spouse behavior, and it's VERY dangerous for you to stick around for any reason. Gathering evidence? It's not worth getting hospitalized or killed. It won't do your children any good for you to be killed and then see their father thrown in prison for it -- effectively making them orphans. The ugly truth is that far too many women in such circumstances do not survive. So you're highest priority needs to be for your own safety. If and when you leave, try to never be alone.

Worrying about your husband changing and again becoming the good man you married is a worthy concern, but it's a distant second to your personal safety. I wouldn't let token changes and token niceties lure you into believing he's going to turn the full 180 degrees and become good again. He's got to do better than that. A lot better.

Personally, I scared for your safety. So are you: "I'm terrified for the next time, as I don't believe I'll live through it." Please, please don't let anything terrible happen to yourself.

Praying for you.

Faded.

[Guest mirancs8]

Faded wrote: "If and when you leave, try to never be alone."

This is very true. In my own situation my sister took a flight immediate when he was served and stayed with me for a few days. Today my mother is flying in to stay as long as I need her to help with the kids and give me support. It's always important to have people around you because it only gets worse before it gets better and you'll spend much time beating yourself up.

Praying for you

Christine

[wltpc]

I had a neighbor who was a psychiatrist. We discussed the "staying in it for the kids" and he said that a large study was done and the results were that to a man/woman, all regretted staying in it for the kids, and also the kids did not fare as well as parents who were either single or remarried to someone who provided a loving stable situation. They are very perceptive, and while we think as parents we are so smart, they know whats going on. Just my .02 worth to what I know must be a very difficult and painful situation. I'm sorry you have to deal with it.

[chitchat]

I am sorry about your situation. A few years ago I helped a friend connect with a domestic abuse counselor so she could get help. It was an extremely hard time for her. She felt so guilty as though it was all her fault, when it wasn't. I am encouraged seeing so many well-reasoned replies to your thread here.

I am a big proponent of marrying and staying married until death do us part. But, in situations involving abuse or infidelity where a spouse is not repentant, it is unbearable for the spouse who tries so hard to make things work out. I thought that the Mormon church taught that married couples should stay married no matter what, but I guess I misunderstood. It sounds like marriage is honored, but only when both people are fulfilling their marital and spiritual responsibilities.

I'm so sorry for your pain and will pray for you.

One thing: There are ministries to help men with addiction to porn. Has your husband contacted any of those? Or is he willing to?

I don't know details of your situation, but if he's physically violent, then you get to get to a safe place. Most every community has free shelters and counselors available to help women navigate through this.

Edited January 25, 2010 by chitchat

[ryanh]

Divorce by Dallin H. Oaks - Ensign May 2007

In ancient times and even under tribal laws in some countries where we now have members, men have power to divorce their wives for any trivial thing. Such unrighteous oppression of women was rejected by the Savior, who declared:

“Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

“And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery” (Matthew 19:8–9).

The kind of marriage required for exaltation—eternal in duration and godlike in quality—does not contemplate divorce. In the temples of the Lord, couples are married for all eternity. But some marriages do not progress toward that ideal. Because “of the hardness of [our] hearts,” the Lord does not currently enforce the consequences of the celestial standard. He permits divorced persons to marry again without the stain of immorality specified in the higher law. (emphasis mine)

[wltpc]

ironically its usually the husband who is the problem. Not always but I'm sure statistically its probably over 80% of the time. That is, they are abusive in some way, infidelity, what ever. Its a huge problem in the church. Finding a single man, late 20's and up who is temple worthy is as rare as hens teeth. That is a fact. There are, however plenty of women in this situation.

[chitchat]

I do not know how it is in the Mormon church, but elsewhere more and more women are leaving their husbands and children in search of a supposed greater fulfillment. This is very tragic in my mind.

I do not mean to drift this thread, so please don't anyone comment on this link, but just read it and you'll be aghast at how so many women have lost touch with their maternal instincts. Too many define "success" as having a job and money. They view kids as objects to own.

Pew Helps Explain Why the Right Man Is Getting Harder for Educated Women to Find. - WSJ.com

[wltpc]

The LDS(MORMON) church has a very pro marriage stand. The marriage/family is of utmost importance. Divorce is not something to take lightly and "just because we argue" or "we fell out of love" or things like that are not reasons to get a divorce. Things like infidelity, abuse---physical, sexual, emotional usually are.

Naturally the woman and childrens safety is of first importance, but assuming they are not in danger, then the couple should try counseling. If they need, they can get it for free by PHD psychologists or social workers at the LDS social services where they are specifically trained in marriage and family issues.

Marriage can be hard under the best of circumstances. I just read in the paper today where the Catholic church is thinking of requiring more premarital classes, counseling, etc before the marriage will be sanctioned by the church. This is to cut down on the growing epidemic of divorce.

To all of you suffering in a difficult situation, my prayers are with you. I am often shocked at some of the things that I hear that go on in what appears to be on the surface, a perfect marraige.

[ADoyle90815]

Marriage can be hard under the best of circumstances. I just read in the paper today where the Catholic church is thinking of requiring more premarital classes, counseling, etc before the marriage will be sanctioned by the church. This is to cut down on the growing epidemic of divorce.

To all of you suffering in a difficult situation, my prayers are with you. I am often shocked at some of the things that I hear that go on in what appears to be on the surface, a perfect marraige.

I think it would be good if the LDS church also made premarital classes and counseling mandatory before allowing couples to marry in the temple. Even temple marriages aren't immune from divorce these days.

As for the original topic, I think the OP should get out now, as what he's doing is abuse, and denying you access to bank accounts is financial abuse. I was in an abusive marriage myself, but I was fortunate enough to get out, and without having any children as I could make a clean break and cut him completely out of my life. When I joined Facebook, the first thing I did was to block him.

[Lolita]

Don't be afraid of leaving him...

His "sweet" behaviour is typical in abusive men, that is cause he wants you back, and when you go back to him it will be the same cycle!!!

It is better that your children grow with a single mother or with a step-father than with an abusive husband, I don't think they like to see his abuse upon you, I guess they prefer to be far from that, your peace, selfsteem and your children's appropiated growth is priceless, so don't fear that they won't have a father or that you will have a bad economical situation.

[Lolita]

I think it would be good if the LDS church also made premarital classes and counseling mandatory before allowing couples to marry in the temple. Even temple marriages aren't immune from divorce these days.

To graduate of the Religion Institute you should have taken at least once the class of Eternal Marriage... I took it and it is wonderful, it even talks about abuse and everything one should know about marriage.

Also before getting married in the temple you must have an interview with your bishop, that is helpful, cause he can see things from the outside of the relationship. The Church has many programs for marriages and families and the young adults are always being counseled about marriage, sometimes we could even feel overwhelmed by the topic...

I think the church gives us the best tools to have great marriages... But, as we know, is not a guarantee and it depends of two people, so both of them should try to do their best of it won't work...

Once I read that Utah is one of the states with the lowest rate of divorce... Could someone confirm this, please?

[mormonwifey]

You really need to be hesitant and leery.My sister was in a very abusive relationship,which started out with the husband cussing her and even smacking her.Then it got really bad,to the point he beat her.Now she is missing,presumed to be murdered by him.I didn't know about the abuse,she hid it from me,knowing how I would react.

Then my mom met a guy who abused her.I finally succeeded in running him off,but it scares me whenever a woman says she is abused.I never wanna see a family go through what I am living through with my sister being missing,presumed to be murdered.

missing my sister.

Hope Meek (1977 - 2002)