Did we choose our own weaknesses?

[codell]

I have heard lots of talk over the years that many believe we chose our earthly trials and challenges while still in the pre-existance. This belief, for me, would make facing my trials easier, but I cannot find any documentation, scripturally or from any general authority stating that this indeed is the case. Does anyone know if there is any documentation surrounding this topic?

[miztrniceguy]

I doubt it. I can hardly think I would have chosen mine.

[codell]

It just seems that I've heard so much speculation that in the pre-existence we had a hand in choosing our mortal trials. It seems that I've heard so much talk surrounding this but cannot find any documentation, scriptural or otherwise for any type of a discussion.

[hordak]

The idea we choose our trials is a way to say "you can get thought it" or "don't complain you picked it" Works great for the day to day stuff but makes no sense if we look at the big picture

"So i will own a nice business, which will be taken over by the Government. My family will be shot and I will beaten and tossed into a concentration camp where i will do slave labor until dieing of starvation. Where do i sign"

Plus where does that leave freewill and accountability?

"Yes Brother Jones I stole your car and drove it into a lake, but you choose this in the preexistence so don't get all uppity with me."

[Misshalfway]

I have heard lots of talk over the years that many believe we chose our earthly trials and challenges while still in the pre-existance. This belief, for me, would make facing my trials easier, but I cannot find any documentation, scripturally or from any general authority stating that this indeed is the case. Does anyone know if there is any documentation surrounding this topic?

I don't think that everything terrible that happens to us is something we signed up for in the pre earth life. I do think we knew the deal with earth life though and we did agree to come knowing the risks and, I think, trusting that whatever life brought would be good for our growth. Or that the Atonement would take care of our pains.

But I do believe that there are singlular circumstances that perhaps we did discuss with God before we came here. Maybe God asked us our goals for earth life or maybe asked us to participate in constructing personalized earth lessons. Maybe God just unilaterally decided what was best for each of us. And perhaps he prepared some of us in advance.

I don't know of any scriptural documentation but I know that I have my own personal "documentation" that has come by way of personal revelation/priesthood blessings. And when I heard those words, I felt an inner knowing that I did indeed agree to one particular trial. So, I spose you can take that for what its worth.

[LostSheep]

Lol...I would have chosen my weakness to be Kryptonite, sinse you don't see to much of that stuff laying around to begin with.

[Wingnut]

I think it's more that we knew that there would be trials and we would have weaknesses in this life, because that was part of this life, but I highly doubt that we handpicked our own. If we did, they wouldn't be much of a trial, would they?

I also don't think you're likely to come up with any doctrinal backing for it.

[lydlou]

The idea we choose our trials is a way to say "you can get thought it" or "don't complain you picked it" Works great for the day to day stuff but makes no sense if we look at the big picture

"So i will own a nice business, which will be taken over by the Government. My family will be shot and I will beaten and tossed into a concentration camp where i will do slave labor until dieing of starvation. Where do i sign"

Plus where does that leave freewill and accountability?

"Yes Brother Jones I stole your car and drove it into a lake, but you choose this in the preexistence so don't get all uppity with me."

the questin was did we pick our WEEKNESSES, not whether we picked our trials. the examples you stated are trials, weeknesses are such things as having an adictive personality, having on overactive labido, being fixated on finacial issues, having violent tendancys or even having truble understanding the importance of honesty.

I'm not sure it matters whether we chose them ourselves of if God chose them for us. what truly matters is identifying them and dealing with it.

[hordak]

the questin was did we pick our WEEKNESSES, not whether we picked our trials. the examples you stated are trials, weeknesses are such things as having an adictive personality, having on overactive labido, being fixated on finacial issues, having violent tendancys or even having truble understanding the importance of honesty.

I'm not sure it matters whether we chose them ourselves of if God chose them for us. what truly matters is identifying them and dealing with it.

I see your point, trials and weekness being diffrent but...

I have heard lots of talk over the years that many believe we chose our earthly trials and challenges while still in the pre-existance.

It appears you read the heading and I read the post:),

[lydlou]

I see your point, trials and weekness being diffrent but...

It appears you read the heading and I read the post:),

lol. good point! while weeknesses are a type of trial, not all trials are weeknesses.

[dazed-and-confused]

well, guess it's time for the old hippie convert to step up.

yes, i have heard that. it is, in fact, VERY popular with many people. it seems to get most attention from new age/christian/eastern religion/all paths lead to rome/you don't have to follow any specific religion as long as you have a good heart, kind of people.

it gives many people a sense of "i'm in control of my own kharma", kind of thing.

as best as i can see, anyway.

peace.

[NeuroTypical]

"So i will own a nice business, which will be taken over by the Government. My family will be shot and I will beaten and tossed into a concentration camp where i will do slave labor until dieing of starvation. Where do i sign"

Since we're engaging in rampant speculation, I'll share two reasons I've heard for people to sign. Keep in mind, this is rampant speculation. I've never caught the vaguest hint of doctrinal foundation for any of this.

There was a movie a few years back, about the last official Exorcism done by the Catholic church. I forget the name. The possessed chick wanders off into the woods in a rare moment of lucidity, and has a vision of the Virgin Mary. The Virgin offers her a way out of her anguish and torture (i.e. death), but she also lets the possessed chick see what will happen to the next umpteen people the demons will torment. Then the Virgin says if the posessed chick stays in her body and endures to the end (a sucessful exorcism), these demons will not be able to make those people miserable, because they're all trapped in her. In other words, the posessed chick, merely by having a very crappy time of things, will bless the lives of others.

Someone told me once about a possible justification for years of horrible child abuse eventually resulting in the abused committing suicide. As the story goes, in the pre-existence, a person was offered the life of the abused person. The life could go two different ways - the abuse would not be so bad, but she would pass it on to her children, and it would continue on through the generations. Option two, was abuse so bad that it would eventually result in suicide, but her children and all generations after would be free of abuse - it was a way to end the cycle.

Remember - this is all speculation firmly in the realm of fiction as far as I'm concerned.

LM

[Blackmarch]

I have heard lots of talk over the years that many believe we chose our earthly trials and challenges while still in the pre-existance. This belief, for me, would make facing my trials easier, but I cannot find any documentation, scripturally or from any general authority stating that this indeed is the case. Does anyone know if there is any documentation surrounding this topic?

I certainly hope we didn't choose which trials we'd be getting... or I might have to turn myself in as haveing sadomachistic tendencies or something.

However a reasonable thought to me is perhaps we had a little say in what time period we'd come to earth.

No documentation I am aware of that would say yea or nay to this question.

[dazed-and-confused]

by the way, my previous post?....i was very much a part of this group of people and i mean them no disrespect at all.

personally, i've always liked to be open to things not always considered "normal".

i still do adhere to a great many things i learned from eastern religions.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I can't see why we would have a hand in choosing something we had no experience in. If we did choose our weakness it would be a shot in the dark because we would have no reference to what that would be like. There would be no reason for any specific choice if you had no idea what it was like. Like asking for Guarana at a restaurant when you've never tried it before, it wouldn't be based on anything more than the fact that you haven't tried it before .... well, everything in this life, I haven't tried.

I think that is one of the reasons we are here is to have those experiences. In a sense we have chosen certain pathways before coming here that play a role in what God assigns us here, whether we were valiant in the pre-existence or not. But it is all too far from our memory to make any inferences about why we have certain talents and abilities here based on our "personalities" in the pre-existence ... there are too many unknowns.

[Traveler]

We had at least 12 billion years to prepare and figure out what we would do in this life. I am quite certain that not only does G-d know the end from the beginning but so did we and that is part of the reason for the vile. Isaiah 46:9-10 is an interesting scripture concerning this subject. Not only does G-d know all things from the “beginning” to the “end” but he declares all things. It is part of our purpose and life experience to obtain“knowledge” of good and evil. In LDS theological circles this knowledge comes to us in this life in a form known as “types and shadows”.

We all like to think that our burdens are unique and we alone carry certain hardships. But in truth the patterns of life are all the same. In all things there are opposites – a dichotomy of good and evil. The choice boils down to a choice of life or death. This mortal existence is neither the beginning nor the end of our choice and to judge ourselves or anyone by this life only is a gross misunderstanding of G-d’s eternal Plan of Salvation.

The Traveler

[ColorMEreal]

You are correct Traveler, indeed God does know all things from the beginning to end. God is familiar with each of us personally. He knows our stories. I suspect their's a lot we too knew, but I'm not sure to what extent.

I'm a writer by profession and sometimes when I write poetry I find that I am strangely familiar with how my poems should go. This stirs up all kinds of questions and curiosities in me. Perhaps it has something to do with coming to a remembrance of things, I don't know for sure...

[Saturnfulcrum]

I'm not sure if I picked my own weaknesses and trials, but I do know that we had personalities in the pre-existance. I'm sure we had personality weaknesses there that transfered over to this life.

I have been told in a couple blessings that I was aware of my trials before I came to earth, but that doesnt necessarily mean i hand picked them.

I also like to think that my patriarchal blessing is a letter to myself through Heavenly Father because I could see what I'd be getting myself into in this life...as well as what weaknesses would give me problems.

But then again, this is all speculation on my part. No scriptural background on my part. Sorry.

[RanMan]

My thought on this is that we probably had a good idea of the situation we would be placed in mortal life and that could lead to a resonable expectation of what difficulties might go along with it. But probably more importantly, I feel that when we are done with this life, we will be able to look back on it and see how our trials, and even our weaknesses, were important to our eternal progress.

:)

[Moksha]

Notions of reward for valiance or choosing of trials in the preexistence are both in conflict with the ideas of:

1. Life being a qualifying trial

2. Free Agency

Shall we be Calvanistic or Arminian in this regard?

[FlaviusHambonius]

I'm trying to figure out what would it matter if we did or did not choose our weeknesses or trials -- simply because we wouldn't be able to remember them -- so how would it benefit us one way or the other.

I think there's plenty of pits to fall into here in mortality without having to choose any.

[skippy740]

If I chose my own weaknesses, then I must've been very ambitious in the pre-existance!

[Drac]

I don't think we chose our weaknesses and trials; but I do believe we may have been shown what we may experience. One of my favorite talks on the pre-existence by Neal A Maxwel.. LDS.org - Ensign Article - Premortality, a Glorious Reality

When I was younger I experienced Deja Vu a lot. There were even times I began to experience it and then had, to the best of my ability to explain it, memories of what was about to happen insomuch that I knew what someone with me was about to say. It was really weird. I only had one explanation for it; I think I may have been correct :)

Here's my favorite section from the talk.

"Agreeing to enter this second estate, therefore, was like agreeing in advance to anesthetic—the anesthetic of forgetfulness. Doctors do not de-anesthetize a patient, in the midst of what was previously authorized, to ask him, again, if it should be continued. We agreed to come here and to undergo certain experiences under certain conditions.

Elder Orson Hyde said, “We have forgotten! … But our forgetfulness cannot alter the facts.” (Journal of Discourses, 7:315.) Yet, on occasions, there are inklings. President Joseph F. Smith observed how “we often catch a spark from the awakened memories of the immortal soul, which lights up our whole being as with the glory of our former home.” (Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1939, p. 14.)

There can be sudden surges of deja vu. A flash from the mirror of memory can beckon us forward to that far pavilion, filled with “everlasting splendours” and resurrected beings. C. S. Lewis wrote, “We cannot mingle with the splendours we see. But all the leaves of the New Testament are rustling with the rumour that it will not always be so.” (C. S. Lewis at the Breakfast Table and Other Reminiscences, ed. James T. Como, New York: Collier Books, 1985, p. 34.) Thanks to the Prophet Joseph Smith, hundreds more leaves of scripture are rustling, rustling resoundingly for all who have ears to hear.

Thus, when we now say “I know,” that realization is rediscovery; we are actually saying “I know—again!” "

Edited February 6, 2010 by Drac

[Traveler]

You are correct Traveler, indeed God does know all things from the beginning to end. God is familiar with each of us personally. He knows our stories. I suspect their's a lot we too knew, but I'm not sure to what extent.

I'm a writer by profession and sometimes when I write poetry I find that I am strangely familiar with how my poems should go. This stirs up all kinds of questions and curiosities in me. Perhaps it has something to do with coming to a remembrance of things, I don't know for sure...

Interesting post. Often in scripture we see the symbolic reference to "awake" and to "remember". In Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 we learn that there really is nothing new. Everything has allready occured. This is a good indication that we did know and understand and that part of our purpose here is to "remember".

The Traveler

[Seminarysnoozer]

Notions of reward for valiance or choosing of trials in the preexistence are both in conflict with the ideas of:

1. Life being a qualifying trial

2. Free Agency

Shall we be Calvanistic or Arminian in this regard?

Obviously, God uses information obtained from our pre-existence to assist in final judgment as we know what happens, for example, to individuals who have Down's Syndrome. This life is a chance to progress and increase what we have already achieved. What we have achieved before this life began won't be taken away from us unless we fail to keep our second estate. We have all achieved something ... we have all kept our first estate. You don't think we should be rewarded for that? There are other achievements in the pre-existence that are not recognized by us here but will be accounted for when rewards are really handed out. If two people happen to keep their second estate just as well as the other, they still may end up in a different condition in the next life as a part of that final designation is based on our pre-existence. But, all that achievement can be lost if we don't manage well what God gave us here.

Where much is given much is expected, so there is no 'reward' given in this life compared to anyone else in this life. Even Jesus said its harder for a rich man to enter into the kingdom. So, what rewards do you think exist in this life? I don't think there are any rewards here, only a set of circumstances from which God will judge what was given and what the final tally is. The person that receives 5 talents still has to double them, just like the one that receives 10 or 1. So, there is no reward here, in my opinion.