Reasons to prepare

[chitchat]

We're all human and no one can accurately predict what may happen next. That's a given.

What is also a given is that each one of us does not know whether hardship will hit us this very day, tomorrow, next year, ten years from now or fifty.

I saw a thread where someone offered to help people living in cities. That sounded odd to me for someone to offer to help strangers on a board and tell them where they live. It looks like that thread was closed for good reason.

But it also looked from some responses like a lot of people feel real secure living in cities. I'm surprised by that because Joel Skousen (who is a Mormon) advises people to live in rural areas for their best outcome, should troubles arise.

I will repeat that I have no idea as to the future any more than anyone else does here, but most large cities in our nation do have missiles pointing at them from Russia. I'm not saying Russia is any particular threat right now, but just the fact that the missiles are pointing at our cities makes me feel uneasy. I'd sure rather that not be the case.

Also, there is a lot of talk in the news nowadays about a possible Depression ahead. America is bankrupt. Now if Salt Lake City is 90% Mormon and most of those Mormons are well prepared for hard times, then I agree that SLC will make it through pretty well. People could pull together and help one another.

But some here have told me that Salt Lake City is only 50% Mormon. In that case, there could be some real trouble with social unrest if a Depression got bad enough.

Anyway, so it seems to me. If preparedness is just to get through a job layoff, then some Mormon businesses are doing a fantastic job of preparing people for a much bigger event. I think there are Mormons who believe things could get much worse before they get better. Skousen is one of them, I suspect.

[NeuroTypical]

Here's something that will help:

All's-Well-In-Zionites: Believe that no matter how bad things get, help will eventually arrive from the next neighbor, or ward, or stake, or community, or county, or state, or country over. Figures if something bad happens, everyone will cooperate and nobody will go without. Believes they can stop bullets with "priesthood power".

Regular Mormon: Tries to store some food and water, have some $$ in the bank, and gets lots of education. Doesn't really think about it much.

Prepper: Has some definite ideas about how bad things could get, and tries to implement planning for these events into their lives. Believes in more than just food storage, believes in striving for self-reliance. Can look like a Regular Mormon, but has guns. Has spirited arguments with other Preppers about whether to share food storage or not. Has been told "Oh, if something bad happens, we'll just come to your house" at least twice. (Also known as a Preparadness Enthusaist).

Doomer: Believes the end of civilization has been plainly prophecied of, and will be here shortly. Differs on details (deadly swine flu, 2012-style earthquakes, Illuminati suspending the constitution and sending in Chineese troops, EMP pulse makes everything broken, Commie takeover, zombie uprising), but figures whatever it is, it's coming soon. If a Doomer lives in a city, he wants to move to the country. If he lives in the country, he wants to move to the mountains. If he lives in the mountains, he wants a compound. If he as a compound, he wants a lookout tower and a bunker and a dozen other Doomer families to live with him. Argues with other doomers about whether a pistol has to be painted white to make it appropriate to carry in the temple or not. Thinks Regular Mormons are "sheep", AWIZites are "dangerous", and Preppers are "off to a good start". (Also known as a Recluse, Nut-job, or 'Beans & Ammo Saint')

Skousen is definitely in that last category. He advocates more than just rural living, he advocates buying 35 acres in states minimally targeted by Soviet nukes, and preparing to fight off food rioters.

LM

(Yes, I really did hear someone say that about stopping bullets once.)

Edited January 25, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[chitchat]

ROFLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is so funny! I like it. I think a lot of people fall into all those categories, depending. They just have different descriptions.

So do most Mormons think that Skousen is a nut?

[Elgama]

for me the only reason to prepare is the Prophet therefore the Lord has told us we should. No point in worrying about what might happen as the Lord says He is that we might have peace. If we do as He commands we have know need to fear any other event we are prepared and our oil in in our lamps ready to go

[chitchat]

Elgama, so if the Prophet told you to stop preparing and only have 3 days of food in your kitchen at a time, would you do that?

It's okay if that's how you feel. I'm not criticizing you; I'm just trying to understand. It sounds a little like everything the Prophet tells you to do is exactly what you do. Am I misunderstanding? Or is this how it is with all Mormons? (And I mean no disrespect for whomever your Prophet is as I don't know who is who. The only prophet I've heard some talk about is Joseph Smith. Is he the one you're talking about?)

I can say that the few articles I've read by people (whom I'm guessing are called prophets) sounded like good practical advice.

Personally, I'm a little leery of complete obedience to any human being because I've seen abuse in churches before and it really does a lot of spiritual damage to those who trusted. Steve Arterburn wrote a good book on this called Toxic Faith. Sometimes people in leadership roles sin in some bad ways (i.e., the Catholic church).

Edited January 26, 2010 by chitchat

[pam]

Also, there is a lot of talk in the news nowadays about a possible Depression ahead. America is bankrupt. Now if Salt Lake City is 90% Mormon and most of those Mormons are well prepared for hard times, then I agree that SLC will make it through pretty well. People could pull together and help one another.

But some here have told me that Salt Lake City is only 50% Mormon. In that case, there could be some real trouble with social unrest if a Depression got bad enough.

I guess I'm curious as to why you keep using Salt Lake City as an example. Just because the headquarters of the Church is here?

Even if 90% of the population were members, I can pretty much bet that less than 1/3 are prepared. I don't have statistics just guessing.

Taking the 50% membership, I would say maybe 5% would be prepared.

Personally, I'm a little leery of complete obedience to any human being because I've seen abuse in churches before and it really does a lot of spiritual damage to those who trusted. Steve Arterburn wrote a good book on this called Toxic Faith. Sometimes people in leadership roles sin in some bad ways (i.e., the Catholic church).

We follow and have followed past and our current Prophet because we believe he receives revelation from God. We believe he is the mouthpiece for God.

I saw a thread where someone offered to help people living in cities. That sounded odd to me for someone to offer to help strangers on a board and tell them where they live. It looks like that thread was closed for good reason.

That thread was not closed for the reasons you may think.

[Akita]

LM, I think you have pretty well categorized the entire population, not just LDS. (and I didnt know Sousken was a Mormon)

I think the one of best reasons for preparing is so that we will be in a better position to help others in a time of need. In a crisis, its hard to help anyone else if you are struggling to get your own family squared away.

[chitchat]

That's a good point about being able to help others and it's a noble heart that thinks to do that. Hopefully knowing how to garden, save seed, etc. will help others learn how to catch their own fish, so to speak. Part of the problem is that many people (of several faiths) who know to prepare don't do it, for assurance that they can lean on someone else. I think LM already mentioned that.

Pam, I live in the eastern part of the country and have never visited Utah. I do know a lot of Mormons live in Utah. I guess that Salt Lake City is the only big city I'm aware of in that state and since we're talking about big cities, that's the one I thought of.

You brought up concern over a question I asked about home schooling in another thread. If it helps, then I can leave this board if my questions are making some uncomfortable. I'm honestly just trying to understand some of the beliefs and that requires that I ask hard questions, but I do realize that some people are disrespectful of the right of Mormons to believe as they do, so there could be sensitivity and a wondering "why" some questions are asked. I do not have that kind of negative motive, but genuinely want to understand the reasons behind some of the beliefs. I do think deeply and will ask deep questions sometimes.

I like a lot of things about the Mormon church such as the music and the fact that so many prepare, or at least have businesses helping others do so. I do not understand some of the beliefs which is why I'm asking questions. I hope that helps allay any misunderstandings here. Some of the thread titles here appear to welcome questions by others, so I thought it was okay to do so, but I could be misunderstanding. If so, I can honor a direct request to leave here on this thread and I will politely thank all who shared their hearts respectfully.

Edited January 26, 2010 by chitchat

[pam]

You brought up concern over a question I asked about home schooling in another thread.

No I brought up my concern over an idea that LDS would send their children to public school strictly for the idea of proselytizing. There is a difference.

There seems to be some misconception that because the Church headquarters is in SLC that those of us that live in the area are better prepared etc. At least that is the impression I got from your post when you brought up SLC. Also that the members in SLC seem to be the measuring mark for all members of the Church.

I think it's somewhat of a misconception that we have fewer struggles, that our kids don't have the same pressures of peers, some of the same temptations as any other big city.

I apologize if I am misunderstanding...that is just the impression I'm getting.

[chitchat]

That's okay, Pam. ((((((Thanks)))))) for explaining. :)

People outside the Mormon church can get the impression that Mormon families have it more together than families of other faiths do. The young men riding bikes around town look so neatly groomed and mature. And wow, the Brigham Young University choir is like incredible, you know? And I do believe that family responsibilities are emphasized in the Mormon church which is a very good thing.

Not to drift my own thread, but I was kinda hoping to hear that things are much better in the Mormon church than in other churches, mainly because it's just so sad seeing the direction many of the young people today are headed. It would give me joy to know that somewhere on this earth things are going pretty well, but the reality is that we all need Christ's return.

I believe the public schools contribute greatly to the teenage rebellion problem, but that's that "other thread" - lol!

As far as SLC, nope, I'm just not very familiar with other cities in Utah, that's all. I've heard of Provo, but know nothing about it.

[pam]

I would like to think that we, as LDS, are more prepared or better prepared than most. At least if anything we know and have been counseled to be prepared. That's a good thing. And honestly, I think that that is a goal of most LDS families..whether they are prepared or not..I know the good intentions are there.

[NeuroTypical]

Not to drift my own thread, but I was kinda hoping to hear that things are much better in the Mormon church than in other churches, mainly because it's just so sad seeing the direction many of the young people today are headed. It would give me joy to know that somewhere on this earth things are going pretty well, but the reality is that we all need Christ's return.

I enjoy a good thread drift!

I believe the LDS church teaches and emphasises many things that would solve a lot of the worlds' problems, if people would just follow the advice.

For example, our church offers the world this adviceon marriages:

Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities.

I've lived in 6 different places in 2 states, and for the most part, my fellow Mormons strive to live teachings such as this. But like any other group of people, you find good and not so good. We're not perfect. Most of us are trying to be better today than yesterday, but you can also find the occasional bigot or criminal, so it's not like we're all perfect.

LM

[Elgama]

Elgama, so if the Prophet told you to stop preparing and only have 3 days of food in your kitchen at a time, would you do that?

.

You missed my point its not the Prophet its God if we struggle with anything we have right ask God ourselves for confirmation, my experience is as LDS we are not going to be comfortable everything that proceeds out of the every prophets mouth, and thats OK we are human trying to understand the divine - bit like watching 3D film without the specs on there are things in the gospel I understand have an eternal reason, but I can't see what that is from my mortal existence. What we can do is go to our Heavenly Father in prayer and gain our own testimony that is what He wants us to do. So would you stop preparing and have only 3 days of food in your kitchen if God asked you? I certainly would and indeed have done, we used all our food storage during a time my husband was unemployed, when he got a job I was strongly impressed our priority was to pay off our debts (also something the prophet/God has asked us to do) so I have placed more effort into that, the Lord has blessed us and although my cupboards are stocked, and we have some emergency provisions, I do not have a years storage yet. This time 6 months ago I was living literally day to day praying we wouldn't run out, now I have stocked cupboards and a full freezer. Once our debt is sorted then I will concentrate harder on preparedness - I have concentrated more on the production side in order to pay off the debts, growing our own veg, learning to sew etc.

Heavenly Father will help us - I used the storage for one of the purposes we are asked to store, and have listened to Heavenly Father about how to rebuild, He does and will continue to bless and take care of what we cannot do at this time.

As I stated food storage is about God's peace more than any natural or family disaster, as the quote I last heard said by Elder Stephen Kerr said the Genius of Mormonism is all things that are physical are spiritual and all things that are spiritual are physical (hope I am not misquoting it lol) but its true what we do with our physical bodies impacts on our spirits and what we do spiritually impacts on our physical body

Edited January 26, 2010 by Elgama

[chitchat]

LM, I really enjoy the way you write in your posts - they're fun to read and informative.

Elgama, thanks for clarifying. I think you use wisdom when you prioritize according to where you see God leading.

As long as God is leading through His Holy Spirit in us and through the Bible, I think we find blessing. As for prophets in our time, I'm researching all of this. I am sure you would agree that blind obedience to any human being is not wise. We need God's Spirit guiding us toward truth and wisdom. Reading the Bible and staying in prayer is vital.

As an aside, I also love Pam's gingerbread cookie avatar! :) That has got to be one of the cutest I've ever seen. The facial expression is so precious and too often captures how I feel sometimes. ha!

Edited January 26, 2010 by chitchat
Adding comment about Pam's avatar

[Elgama]

Personally, I'm a little leery of complete obedience to any human being because I've seen abuse in churches before and it really does a lot of spiritual damage to those who trusted. Steve Arterburn wrote a good book on this called Toxic Faith. Sometimes people in leadership roles sin in some bad ways (i.e., the Catholic church).

This is why personal revelation is essential some of our Mormon leaders are going to be bad men but remember the Lord called Judas, and in someways what Judas did whilst incredibly evil advanced the kingdom of God more than any other. I am having my own dealings with abusive Mormons right now it happens, but I believe they were called because in doing so it serves God's purpose, there is always wisdom in it. Equally yes the Roman Catholic Church handled various scandals badly but some of the Roman Catholic Priests, Bishops even Archbishops have been amazing.

About 10 years ago I had an internet chat buddy who was a Prior in a monastic order in Canada until it was decided that using chatrooms did break the vow of silence he had taken lol He was an amazingly spiritual man

[California_Dreaming]

I find this thread interesting. Being non Mormon, I do believe that the LDS church has a lot of good advice. Back in my college days a fraternity brother had converted to LDS and was having trouble getting his wife on board with the idea. The local bishop was counseling them and stated to her, “If you took the religion out of Mormonism is there anything that you could disagree with?”

I thought that was an interesting question. Strong family ties, debt free, preparedness through food storage….

I do have one question, and I’ll start by stating something that I was told as a teenager my parish priest. He said that most religious beliefs and traditions are based on some secular event, such as the Catholics were not permitted to eat meat on Fridays. He said that if you trace back that tradition, it was mandated by the Pope when Europe was in a depression… the economy of Europe was based on fishing…by mandating that meat not be eaten on Fridays, it boosted the fishing industry and thus helped the economy.

Here is where my ignorance of LDS might show through. When did the Prophet mandate (if that is the correct word) the storage of one year of provisions…Was it before or after the plague of locusts?

[Misshalfway]

Here is where my ignorance of LDS might show through. When did the Prophet mandate (if that is the correct word) the storage of one year of provisions…Was it before or after the plague of locusts?

I honestly don't know when the church got official with the whole one year thing but its been as long as I can remember.

I can tell you that the church, from the get go, learned they had to be prepared. You see, the persecution started from the get go and the early saints had to leave their homes and cities and start new ones mutiple times over. And they learned quickly to be amazingly resourceful. The early days prepared the saints to deal with the desert terrain in the Utah Basin. It's a heritage of preparedness and education and hard work that our pioneer ancestors pass to us and one we hope to pass on. Its why Utah is the Beehive state. Everyone working hard and doing their part for the benefit of the individual and the whole.

In addition to that, it is the role of the president of the church to warn the people when the Lord directs. They often warn the entire world, not just the church. Its a lot like the dreams of the OT. Seven years of plenty and seven years of drought and the invitation from a propnet to a king to save the grain.

When the prophet gives general mandates, they don't need to be specific or predict the various disasters that could affect a household or a nation. It's about living in peace. When ye are prepared, ye shall not fear. That's the idea. When you are prepared, then come what may.

[Misshalfway]

It's prolly normal for people to only think about SLC when it comes to mormons. But I think that would be like evaluating all Catholics by what they do in Rome. The LDS church is a world wide church now. I don't think many people know that.

I enjoy it when people do ask questions because there are a lot of misconceptions out there. I think there are many who still think we are like the Quakers. :) The only thing Quaker about me is the oats I store in my basement. :D:D

[Akita]

“If you took the religion out of Mormonism is there anything that you could disagree with?”

I also find that a very interesting way to look at this. Personally, I think good folks of all religions spend too much time concentrating on the differences between this or that doctrine instead of looking at our commonalities and our objectives (which seem to be almost universal).

[California_Dreaming]

Misshalfway, I agree with you totally, I believe that we all have misconceptions about others that we do no have first hand knowledge of their beliefs. Most wars have been fought over religion or food. In a recent discussion with friends, one of them commented about the practice of food storage and stated that it was for Armageddon. I came back stating that I believe that to be incorrect, because no amount of food storage would be sufficient for Armageddon; but food storage for unexpected family emergencies like loosing one’s job or natural disasters or bad crop years was more likely. Besides what other investment can you eat.

I love history and especially anything about U.S. history. On a recent trip through SLC, I stopped and took in a little history of the LDS church. I especially enjoyed the visitor’s center and the movie “Joseph Smith The Prophet of the Restoration”. I only wished that the movie continued on through more years of the history, but I realize that it was a movie about Joseph Smith, and not meant to be a total history of the Church.

Anyway this topic is better suited for a different thread.

Back to the “Reasons to prepare”.

P.S. I recently discovered the BYU channel on cable and have enjoyed the programs on food storage, gardens and solar ovens. Thank You BYU

[mrmarklin]

But it also looked from some responses like a lot of people feel real secure living in cities. I'm surprised by that because Joel Skousen (who is a Mormon) advises people to live in rural areas for their best outcome, should troubles arise.

.

I would be good (maybe) to live in rural areas, but that's not an option for 90+% of us in the west. Here in the US only 2% of the population is engaged in agricultural production, and the rest of us must live in some sort of urban area to make a living.

The US and Europe are so interdependent on the rest of the world for almost everything (12% of the world's population using 50% of the resources), that to believe any but a very few individuals have the resources to be truly independent is naive.

The rest of the world is evolving in the same way as the last great populations living in rural areas migrate to the ever industrialising cities of those huge nations. Those populations were mostly at a very basic subsistence level anyway.

[mangome]

The fact is, only 7-10% of LDS members have a full years supply (according to church welfare dept).. If we all plan on others to share with us, it will get pretty thin..

As for me and my family I will follow the Lord and keep a years supply. I don't speculate on why or when I might need it, that's why we have a prophet.. Either I follow the Lords council or I don't. I don't believe in counciling the Lord..

It's a simple thing and the cost for a basic (grain, beans, sugar, oil, milk, salt) is $200. Thats a lot cheaper than term life insurance premiums for a year, and is the ultimate form of life insurance...

As a member of the church we have the gift of the Holy Ghost to lead us in all things..

Read the D&C 88,45, 133, and its easy to see the posible need to be self sufficient..

[UrbanFool]

200 bucks? Did you buy that 10 years ago? LOL! I know plenty of Mormons who think the Bishops Storehouse (which isn't even in our town) is going to support them. Not!

[Dbuild]

Nice categories, Loudmouth. I am the crazy nutjob doomer and have enough ammo to classify as a zombie killer. I like Cleon. What is wrong with him? He is right on the money.

I think you have hit those definitions on the head, though. I have alway wanted a tower with a 50 cal turret on it.