Masturbation / Pornography in the past?

[ferretrunner]

I hope your meeting went well. I'm glad you went in to talk about it. Having another person helping you along the way is important.

Even if your mission papers get pushed back, it's important to work through what was happening now. You'll still get to serve a mission in the future. And you'll probably feel better prepared and stronger going in.

Good luck with your future mission!

[JudoMinja]

I don't think you mandated it, just didn't have a better term, hence the quote marks.It wasn't aimed at you directly. I just don't understand why people see breaking this covenant worse then any other.

Brother Jones breaks the sabbath every week, people say , you shouldn't do that, offer suggestions on how to avoid it, bust out the scriptures etc etc.

Brother Smith looks at porn once, people say you must get to the bishop and repent.

I suppose it could be because Chastity is well defined in the church where as Keeping the Sabbath day holy is more vague. But i really don't see the difference and think confession to Priesthood authority would rest on the individual, i.e. if you have a habitual problem (be it breaking the sabbath, porn, gambling addiction etc) or if moved by the spirit, then take it to the Bishop. But if you wouldn't feel the need to run to the Bishop when you bought a lotto ticket or broke the sabbath once , i would see no reason to him for a one time chastity issue.

Again in this situation it is warranted, if i was preparing for a mission i would want to go with a clean slate and would probably tell about the time i put gum in Susie's hair;)

I just don't subscribe to the idea that breaking covenants is a sin against the church and therefor need to be forgiven by the church (Sounds kinda Catholic) or that certain covenants "mean more" (so to speak) and therefor must be taken to the church while others are worked out among you and God.

I understand what you mean, and I agree about how the being forgiven by the church sounds Catholic. I guess, when I read that in Miracle of Forgiveness it made sense to me that breaking the law of chastity was also a sin against the church, but *shrugs* I don't know. I still kinda see it that way, as there are certain things you are expected to uphold in order to be worthy of your priesthood and maintain a calling. If you are participating in priesthood ordinances or serving a calling, yet breaking the law of chastity, then I would say yes, your sin is also against the church. Especially if you've previously had an interview where you lied when asked this question.

This isn't really what is important though. What is important is that repentance is fully completed so the sin can be avoided and you can be free of your shame and guilt. The law of chastity doesn't necessarily mean more than your other covenants. It is just stressed much more than the others, because it is being heavily targeted by the adversary.

If you think about things from Satan's perspective- he wants to bring us all down to his level, to never make it back to God's presence and always be miserable. He can whittle away at the "little" things, like breaking the Sabbath (and I put the quotes around little because it really isn't- this is very important too), or he can strike hard and fast on something like the Law of Chastity. Sexual sins break apart families, and broken families mean broken gospel teachings, which mean more susceptible souls for the taking. If he can convince you that masturbation and/or pornography are small and unimportant or that you can beat it without help, he's got you.

Anyone who has successfully made it through the repentance process for a sexual sin I am sure will tell you that they could not have done it without the help of their bishop. These sins are highly addictive, and something even as simple as one look at something pornographic can start the slippery slide down to things much worse. It is harder to find support in overcoming these sins because they are very personal and very embarrassing. I am sure someone who frequently breaks the sabbath would have no problem telling their friends, neighbors, family, and other members and ask them for help and advice in breaking the habit. Sexual sins are different. You don't have this support group because things of a sexual nature are not so openly discussed due to their sacredness.

Any sin is hard to beat on your own. Most who break bad habits don't do it with only their own strength. They rely on the strength of others to help lift them up, and keep them from repeating the unwanted behavior. Since, socially this support isn't so openly found, your bishop offers that support.

[audioslave1974]

I've been struggling with these two things off and on for 8 years. I've started to go to church again, but feel like I need to speak to the bishop. I'm not familiar with him and I am told that he is not understanding of peoples sins. I'm a female which makes it even more uncomfortable. I did confess to my YSA bishop years ago and he was really cool about it, but this one I'm not sure of. Heard of somethings that made me uncomfortable about talking to him. What should I do???

[Echo2002]

I too am a female with this problem. I have been struggling with it for 2 years or more. I feel uncomfortable going to the Bishop since I'm female. It just seems a little too personal to discuss with a man I don't know.

[shdwlkr]

Ladies first get to know your bishop he is the one who has been given the keys to look over and after you.

Second if your bishop isn't mature enough to deal with all his flocks issues in life then he has a real problem as he is going to be held accountable for that failure.

Third most bishops and stake presidents I have known are not the least lacking in knowledge. In a singles group back east one year at the Hill Comorah pageant a group of us had the anti paper and were tearing apart with scriptures and the stake president was know by us all as he was our spiritual leader so he came over to where we were because we had refused to give up the anti paper and he had with him our regional rep for the church at the time and they both sat down and discussed some of the articles with us we had a great time and the regional rep told those who thought they were getting us in trouble that maybe they should sit in our meeting and maybe learn something.

What I am getting at here is that your bishop, stake president or who ever it might be in that calling is there to help you not tear you down we do that just fine on our own.

As to being female and talking to a man, yes I can understand the concern but also realize a bishop last time I checked is a calling for a male preisthood holder and you are going to have issues all your life that you will need to talk to the bishop about.

I relate to me going to a female doctor about male health issues been there done that and she was great and understood very well why it bothered me and also got it fixed.

[Echo2002]

Would it be inappropriate to e-mail him about it first? haha....I just can't see myself sitting down face to face with him and confessing this. I can't even say the word out loud.

[shdwlkr]

here is how I would do it if it were me

first get to know your bishop

second sit down and slowly go into things that are bothering you

third realize he is there to help and that he is human and understands that issues come up and that it can be anything.

fourth if you can't say the word just tell him you have a problem and write down on a piece of paper and hand it to him. Let it sink in and then start talking about what you are doing, just like here only with the bishop except he can respond much sooner.

If I were your bishop I can assure you I would do my very best to not em brass you and we would get into some really deep discussion about it but in the end you would find that I am there to help you get through the problem ok

you know where to find me if you need to

Edited June 5, 2011 by shdwlkr

[vixter]

I just started reading this thread and I can't helping thinking that I wish the church would provide better/more information to our youth on masturbation.

I believe the latest information given by our general authorities was a talk given by Elder Packer back in the 1970's and is found in a church pamphlet entitled "To young men only" .

I find it a little odd that it would be directed at "young men only" when the problem effects both men and women. I think all to often the youth of the church feel that if they masturbate they are committing a sin second only to murder. (and that just isn't true)

They figure that since they masturbate and find themselves unable to stop that there is no hope for them and they might as well give in to pornography, fornication and other sins that come their way since it doesn't matter anymore.

Sexual drive and sexual feelings are not powers or temptations that Satan has over us. (all though he will use it to his full advantage) This is how we were created by God. We are instructed to learn how to control our desires and feelings, but I know of very few who master this desire immediately. Normally it takes quite a while (especially for men) to control/master it and many I believe never really do.

Our youth and members in general who find themselves struggling with masturbation need to realize that this does not mean they are evil and that there is no hope for them.

Even if they have not yet learned to control it they are (in most cases unless there are more serious sins) still worthy to attend the temple and be very active and faithful members of the church.

Edited October 6, 2011 by vixter

[RMGuy]

The talk referenced above by Elder Packer has been removed from the Church's website. I am not sure if the pamphlet is still available or not through church distribution, so it might be difficult to find.

-RM

[shdwlkr]

Is this the information being referred to??

To Young Men Only by Elder Boyd K. Packer

or here LDS Talks

Edited October 7, 2011 by shdwlkr

[sister_in_faith]

I thought that I read a thread (can't find it now, so I'm not sure exactly what it said) about 'sexting' between husband/wife... wouldn't that lead to, uh, you know, self gratification? So then I was reading the above link and saw, "Then you can enter into the new and everlasting covenant. You and your sweetheart will be sealed together for time and for all eternity. These sacred life-giving powers will then be released for your use. They will become a binding tie in your marriage."... I had thought that self gratification was not allowed, period. But reading these things makes me wonder... When you are sealed in the temple (as the above quote speaks of), then are you allowed to engage in self gratification? Hummm... that was a little graphic, but now I'm curious!

[Guest]

I thought that I read a thread (can't find it now, so I'm not sure exactly what it said) about 'sexting' between husband/wife... wouldn't that lead to, uh, you know, self gratification? So then I was reading the above link and saw, "Then you can enter into the new and everlasting covenant. You and your sweetheart will be sealed together for time and for all eternity. These sacred life-giving powers will then be released for your use. They will become a binding tie in your marriage."... I had thought that self gratification was not allowed, period. But reading these things makes me wonder... When you are sealed in the temple (as the above quote speaks of), then are you allowed to engage in self gratification? Hummm... that was a little graphic, but now I'm curious!

Absolutely not.

[shdwlkr]

Wow

what we have to remember is that sex is a gift given us by our father in heaven. With that said there are times when "self gratification" when done with your partner I believe is acceptable because first you are both there and participating to the event. I am referring to health issues that might prevent a couple from having normal sex.

I also believe that sending sexual messages to our spouses that might be accepted as them as a form of foreplay would be acceptable. If you are married and having sexual thoughts about your spouse and you are say in a combat zone, which is the greater sin to talk about sex together and solve your sexual desires or to find someone where you are and solve them?

We must be careful when we begin talking about sexual acts as yes sometimes they can be totally wrong and then again circumstances can make it a maybe acceptable solution to a very dangerous problem.

Don't think I am trying to make this an easy answer as it is not, many of us human beings have different sexual drives, sexual preferences and most of all this has to be worked out between the couple and if need be a counselor who hopefully is a member of the church so they do understand the significance of the challenge. Notice I said challenge not problem because when you call it a problem there has to be a right and wrong direction. In dealing with human sexually the waters get very muddy very quickly when we talk about sexual release, satisfaction, gratification or whatever you wan to call it.

I hope I answered some of your questions and didn't add to the confusion as this is a very hard issue to nail down what is right, what is wrong and when is it right and when is it wrong. I am talking here in a loving marriage relationship only. The couple have a lot to say in what is right for them, what is wrong and what will and will not be allowed under the term sexual release, satisfaction in the marriage.

[sister_in_faith]

I understand that issues are not always black and white... I thought that this was just a no no, and reading the thing about sexting, and then the thing about powers being 'released' made me go, huh? (which admittedly is not hard to do - the making me go huh? part) Thank you for those answers!

[vixter]

As a parent of teenagers it is difficult to know what to tell them about this. As already noted sexual drive can be very powerful in different people and trying to get someone to stop can be like telling someone who is severely over weight that they just need to learn some self control and quit eating so much....depending on their genetics, it's not always that easy.

Eating and drinking are a form of "self gratification" and many people who have gone without either one for very long will do almost anything to satisfy that desire.

[RMGuy]

Is this the information being referred to??

To Young Men Only by Elder Boyd K. Packer

or here LDS Talks

The very same. Do you know if they are still publishing this as a pamphlet?

-RM

[sister_in_faith]

Print it, and fold it.

j/k

[shdwlkr]

Rm

No I don't know if they are still publishing the pamphlet but can check tomorrow when I will be able to ask.

Since it is on the web my bet is that it is not being published as it is available to us on the web. The church is finally getting much of what we need on the web for us to use.

I am just glad I was able to find it as it really upsets me when we know we heard, read or saw something and now can't find it.

[bytor2112]

To the OP. Masturbation is common, especially among teens. The more pernicious problem, IMO, is the pornography. It is as addictive as a drug and can steal years from your life and destroys relationships. Just be honest with your Bishop and if you have a problem with pornography tell him and also admit to the masturbation. If it were only masturbation, then he would likely ask how long it has been and if it has been a while he would just counsel you to avoid such temptations.

Confession to the Bishop for certain sins is required because some sins can place in jeopardy your church membership. That being said, that mostly pertains to endowed members of the church. Please understand that the Church doesn't forgive sin....only the Lord can do that. Your Bishop wants to help you get on the path that will qualify you for Eternal Life and stay there. Without confession, he doesn't know how far from that path you really are....so be honest.

In the end the Lord simply wants you to become the type of person that would never have committed these sins to begin with. That is a process and maybe a life long process of overcoming unrighteous desires.

From Ether:

And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

I often speak with the Bishop when I am feeling troubled....is this a confession of sin? Not really, but certainly speaking with the Bishop about concerns and feelings or struggles always makes me feel like my burden is lighter. :)

[Echo2002]

I just finished reading a book by Donald L Hilton Jr, "He Restoreth My Soul" that explains the addiction of pornography and the fact that it acts just like a drug addiction. You can't just tell someone to try not to look at pornography, they need professional counseling. This book was very insightful for me and I think every Bishop and church member should read it.

I just now found two websites that might be helpful for any one struggling with this, Pornography Addiction | Sexual Addiction | LDS Addiction Recovery Programs and Porn Addiction | Don Hilton He Restoreth My Soul | Pornography Addiction

I'm on the road to recovery, I still have a ways since I still haven't got the nerve up to talk to my Bishop about it. It's getting better for me though, and I just take one day at a time and I'm thankful for every day that I don't have those awful thoughts.

[Echo2002]

I just went back and read some previous posts about including women in the pornography discussion. I agree, the church needs to address this issue to both men and women. I was in a book store the other day and there was a whole aisle and a half filled with nothing but "romance" novels. While I've never read a romance novel, it's my understanding that it's basically porn, it's just not in picture or video form. Why else would you have a shirtless guy on the cover? Women like to fantasize, while men are more visual.

[RMGuy]

Rm

No I don't know if they are still publishing the pamphlet but can check tomorrow when I will be able to ask.

Since it is on the web my bet is that it is not being published as it is available to us on the web. The church is finally getting much of what we need on the web for us to use.

I am just glad I was able to find it as it really upsets me when we know we heard, read or saw something and now can't find it.

I do find it odd that I was not able to find it on the church site however, as it was a general conference talk. Why did they remove it from the conference addresses?

-RM

[prophetofdoom]

"Confession to the Bishop for certain sins is required because some sins can place in jeopardy your church membership."

I have heard that those are the sins we need to confess to the Bishop. Anything that could put our membership in the church in jeopardy. However, I have NEVER heard any circumstance where anyone has been excommunicated or disfellowshipped for masturbation...

[bytor2112]

"Confession to the Bishop for certain sins is required because some sins can place in jeopardy your church membership."

I have heard that those are the sins we need to confess to the Bishop. Anything that could put our membership in the church in jeopardy. However, I have NEVER heard any circumstance where anyone has been excommunicated or disfellowshipped for masturbation...

Yes ..."some" sins, I agree not masturbation. That being said, if I am masturbating and surfing porn....probably not far away from THE sins that might place in jeopardy one's membership.

[Suzie]

The talk referenced above by Elder Packer has been removed from the Church's website. I am not sure if the pamphlet is still available or not through church distribution, so it might be difficult to find.

-RM

Removed? It has never been removed because it has never been published in the Ensign. It was published in the Conference Report and since his talk was made a pamphlet they didn't publish it in the Ensign. Yes, the pamphlet still available however I think only Church units can order it.