Birth Control

[prisonchaplain]

Yes...it's in the right section--because the topic is based on an LDS doctrinal distinctive. My question: Does not the doctrine of premortal existence almost demand that the Church oppose birth control? And yet, it doesn't, does it? Any thoughts as to why?

[Snow]

non-sequitar

[Dravin]

The position of the Church is that the number and spacing of children is between the Lord and the couple. Seems fair enough to me, I trust the Lord to know when and where they need to receive bodies.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Dravin

[prisonchaplain]

non-sequitar

Snow, explain it to me. If life is actually premortal, and part of the Plan of Salvation is to allow the spirits to gain bodies and go through this mortal testing, then would not there be a strong imperative not to hinder the bearing of children--especially among the faithful, who's offspring have the best opportunities to choose wisely?

[Moksha]

I think if one followed this question the Chaplain is posing to the very end of the argument, one would be ultimately lead to the incubation chambers of Brave New World. Children would even be able to be endowed with certain abilities decided upon in a pre-birth situation, running from alpha to gamma.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Moksha

[Guest mysticmorini]

Yes...it's in the right section--because the topic is based on an LDS doctrinal distinctive. My question: Does not the doctrine of premortal existence almost demand that the Church oppose birth control? And yet, it doesn't, does it? Any thoughts as to why?

in my mind there are two possibilities, either the spirit does not enter the until a certain stage of gestation and female birth control removes the embryo before that stage. Or, the spirit returns to the spirit world and is given a second chance of some sort. this is, of course all speculation as no revelation has been given on the matter except that the decision is between the couple and the lord.

[Just_A_Guy]

Yes...it's in the right section--because the topic is based on an LDS doctrinal distinctive. My question: Does not the doctrine of premortal existence almost demand that the Church oppose birth control? And yet, it doesn't, does it? Any thoughts as to why?

When it comes to parenting, the Plan of Salvation dictates that quality is a higher priority than quantity. We are asked generally to have as many kids as we feel we can, but there's no point in having twenty kids if it makes me unable to give any of them the foundation they need to gain exaltation.

[bytor2112]

Also it is important to note that we will still bare children during the millenium.

[MarginOfError]

Also it is important to note that we will still bare children during the millenium.

I'm not sure why that is important. Could you explain? I mean, I know that humanity will continue to bear children in that time frame, but presumably only if they are mortal.

[Traveler]

Just for the record – it is LDS doctrine that being single should indirectly be a form a birth control.

The Traveler

[MarginOfError]

The directive to members of the LDS faith is that they are "to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live."

Furthermore, they are expected to provide the necessities of life, protection, and nurturing.

Looking at the principles that govern family life--that is, that the family is the unit in which the spirit children of our God come to learn, grow, and develop into righteous adults--each family must weigh the factors of emotional, physical, psychological, and financial well being of the mother, father, and any previously born children.

If the purpose of the family were to bring as many spirits into this world as possible, then it would make sense to oppose birth control. But that is not the purpose of the family. The purpose of the family is to provide an atmosphere in which the spirits that do come and grow and mature into righteous, god-serving adults.

[Elgama]

I think Heavenly Father is more than capable of getting round birth control if he needs you to have a baby

[MarginOfError]

I think Heavenly Father is more than capable of getting round birth control if he needs you to have a baby

That would be a bit beside the point, now wouldn't it. Afterall, aren't we supposed to be aligning our will with the Lord's instead of waiting for the Lord to impose his will upon us in spite of our decisions?

[Elgama]

That would be a bit beside the point, now wouldn't it. Afterall, aren't we supposed to be aligning our will with the Lord's instead of waiting for the Lord to impose his will upon us in spite of our decisions?

dunno had blessing when we first got married that said I could do what I liked Heavenly Father had his timetable for when i would get my children lol - number 3 arrived despite Mummy and Daddy doing their best not to - someone who has an abortion or something more permenant might not be aligning their will with God but anyone that gets pregnant and goes on to have the baby is doing what they were asked to do

[prisonchaplain]

IMHO, most Christian traditions that are more literal in our understanding of scripture tend towards larger families. Likewise for Jews, and probably for Muslims. A rabbi told me that the Jewish law is fulfilled when a couple have at least one girl and one boy. The blessing "may your quiver be full," would mean five children.

The reality of living in a relatively wealthy society is that raising children is more expensive. They need better schools and more activities to compete. And so, we gradually have fewer and fewer children. Japan, Korea and western Europe are facing shrinking and aging populations. The U.S. is maintaining, largely due to immigration.

I'm not for all Christians having huge families. However, I do wonder if we talk ourselves small a little too easily sometimes. We have three girls, and our family is considered large. Hmmm.

[john doe]

dunno had blessing when we first got married that said I could do what I liked Heavenly Father had his timetable for when i would get my children lol - number 3 arrived despite Mummy and Daddy doing their best not to - someone who has an abortion or something more permenant might not be aligning their will with God but anyone that gets pregnant and goes on to have the baby is doing what they were asked to do

Doing your best not to? Was this one a case of washing your underwear together? Because unless you were abstaining from marital relations, then you probably not doing everything you could to prevent pregnancy.

[Elgama]

Doing your best not to? Was this one a case of washing your underwear together? Because unless you were abstaining from marital relations, then you probably not doing everything you could to prevent pregnancy.

me I was a virgin when I had number:) lol

[Blackmarch]

Yes...it's in the right section--because the topic is based on an LDS doctrinal distinctive. My question: Does not the doctrine of premortal existence almost demand that the Church oppose birth control? And yet, it doesn't, does it? Any thoughts as to why?

I guess that depends on which form of control, but I don't see how anything that prevents conception alone would go against that, just by going with the doctrine of premortal existance.

such a matter is between the parents and God, and should be very studied and prayed about by the respective individuals.

[Maureen]

My question: Does not the doctrine of premortal existence almost demand that the Church oppose birth control? And yet, it doesn't, does it? Any thoughts as to why?

This may be more a cultural/generational thing. When I met my LDS friend in the mid-70's, the thought that spirits were waiting was a good reason to not wait too long to have children (starting at marriage and spacing apart) and to think specifically about how to control the birth of when children should come. For example my friend was dead set against the birth control pill, so she and her husband used other means. If they didn't they probably would have had more than just 7. They initially, when first engaged decided that 12 would be a good number; then reality eventually set in. In fact, when I had my first child, this same friend was expecting her 5th. She had given me a baby shower when she was about 2 weeks away from giving birth herself. Her baby was large and doing uncomfortable things to her hips which made it difficult for her to walk normal. My mother (at the shower) was so distressed by my friend, that she remarked to my friend's mother and sister, that this should be her last pregnancy to give her body a rest. The mother and sister's response (as interpreted by my mother) was, "No, they had planned on having 12 kids so they better have them!!!" After their 5th child was born, they had planned to take a break, but alas, due to their uber-fertility-ness, they had 2 more. :) I would have to say that the thought to family size now a days amongst the LDS has changed; the majority seem to be happy with around 4.

[Generally_Me]

King Benjamin counseled parents not to suffer your children that they go hungry, or naked; neither … that they transgress the laws of God, and fight and quarrel one with another, and serve the devil"

(Mosiah 4)

If by not using birth control a couple has too many children too quickly, they could have children they can't provide for, or too many children for them to spend one-on-one time and teach to do right.

[Guest mirancs8]

The reality of living in a relatively wealthy society is that raising children is more expensive. They need better schools and more activities to compete. And so, we gradually have fewer and fewer children. Japan, Korea and western Europe are facing shrinking and aging populations. The U.S. is maintaining, largely due to immigration.

I'm not for all Christians having huge families. However, I do wonder if we talk ourselves small a little too easily sometimes. We have three girls, and our family is considered large. Hmmm.

At times I feel conflicted on this issue because I do believe that when you are married you are to be fruitful and multiply. But then the question is if you are multiplying far beyond what you can handle (such as the Duggers?). Would it be when you start to see the older children basically raising the younger ones? As parents you have to be able to handle the load. Sure the older kids help out but they also need to live life as a teenager without having an unusual load of parenting responsibilities when they are not the parent.

I have to agree with what you say regarding “talking ourselves small.” We have far less children today then our parents did. Our priorities on where we spend our money no longer falls more on our home/children/family… it is now a priority that we take those vacations, buy a new SUV, and send our children to the latest most expensive summer camps. Gee summer camp for me was digging up worms in the back yard for hours LOL!

We are quick to use birth control in this society. I do however feel that exceptions do apply for the use of birth control such as having an illness that could become worse if you go through a pregnancy, or mental health reasons. I think it’s a shame when a young married couple who should be starting a family doesn’t because they are so hung up on their vacations and careers that they forget one of the reasons for getting married... and that is to start their family.

I’ve never taking birth control just because I didn’t have a reason to BUT if I had to for some reason I would.

[Maureen]

But then the question is if you are multiplying far beyond what you can handle (such as the Duggers?). Would it be when you start to see the older children basically raising the younger ones? As parents you have to be able to handle the load. Sure the older kids help out but they also need to live life as a teenager without having an unusual load of parenting responsibilities when they are not the parent.

IMO, I think the Duggars are handling their extra large family well. Of course, the older kids help out, but that's something that usually happens in all families, whether they're small or large. Kids are part of the family and helping with the family things is a normal function.

I think it’s a shame when a young married couple who should be starting a family doesn’t because they are so hung up on their vacations and careers that they forget one of the reasons for getting married... and that is to start their family.

Who are we to say that a couple should have children. There are many reasons why people get married and some married couples just do not want children and that is their choice. And only the couple can decide "when" it is best for them as a family to have children if they so desire. In some cases, a couple may want children, but forces bigger than themselves like infertility, can put a damper on the "when".

M.

[Faded]

The cultural norm is for people to have smaller families. Many Church going Catholics have small families despite what their religion says on the matter. My devout Catholic neighbors had one boy and one girl and that was the end of that. Likewise, Latter-Day Saints and other Christians are taught one way and do another. I think all of Christianity is tending toward the social norms and disregarding the counsel of God on the matter. Probably not a good thing, IMHO.

[Suzie]

Who are we to say that a couple should have children. There are many reasons why people get married and some married couples just do not want children and that is their choice.

M.

Of course is their choice but if they're members of the Church and they have the knowledge that we all have a commandment from God to do the opposite (taking into consideration there are no health issues, etc) then they're rebelling against God's wishes. Yes, their choice.

[Guest mirancs8]

of course is their choice but if they're members of the church and they have the knowledge that we all have a commandment from god to do the opposite (taking into consideration there are no health issues, etc) then they're rebelling against god's wishes. Yes, their choice.

amen! That is the point.