Zero tolerance gone too far?


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(CNN) -- There was no profanity, no hate. Just the words, "I love my friends Abby and Faith. Lex was here 2/1/10 :)" scrawled on the classroom desk with a green marker.

Alexa Gonzalez, an outgoing 12-year-old who likes to dance and draw, expected a lecture or maybe detention for her doodles earlier this month. Instead, the principal of the Junior High School in Forest Hills, New York, called police, and the seventh-grader was taken across the street to the police precinct.

Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance - CNN.com

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First, a correction to CNN: it's not doodling, it's vandalism. Petty vandalism, to be sure; but vandalism nonetheless.

Second: The article is painfully short on details of what happened in the time between when the teacher first noticed what she was up to, and the time she was hauled off to jail. All we have are Mommy and Daddy talking about what an angel little Precious has always been, and a few people who make their money suing school districts talking about what a horror has been perpetrated here.

I agree with the guy in the article who said that, used wisely, zero tolerance is a useful tool in controlling student behavior on campus. Whether this was a wise use, remains to be seen.

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I don't understand. What was the rule she broke that garnered such a response? She doodled on a desk. She didn't even engrave into it. It could be cleaned up.

I like this quote at the end of the article:

"There is zero intelligence when you start applying zero tolerance across the board," [juvenile court judge Steven Teske] said. "Stupid and ridiculous things start happening."

I heard a story a few weeks ago about a kid in Staten Island that brought a Lego man to school. The Lego man had a tiny 2-inch firearm, and the principal threatened suspension for the kid. The district has a zero tolerance policy when it comes to weapons, even fake ones, but this was literally a two-inch piece of molded plastic. Story here.

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Zero tolerance is one of those buzzwords that means "We are going to do and say whatever we like, cause we make the rules". Zero tolerance is just an excuse for power-trips. I also think "Zero Tolerance" is also "selective enforcememt", especially in this case.

How many others scribbled on their desks, and met with no enforcement whatsoever?

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I don't really see this as a zero tolerance issue, as pointed out by JAG this is vandalism, whether she put" i love my friends" or a racist epithet the crime is the same and should be treated as such.

I see zero tolerance as the lego gun incident brought up by wingnut. The rule no guns is meant to prevent people from bringing actual firearms or maybe fake ones that could be seen as real . A lego could never be seen as real therefor the punishment doesn't fit.

Here the rule is meant to prevent vandalizm, (i assume, the article is too much fluff and not enough facts)anything (regardless of what it says) written on the school desk in marker is vandalism.

So i see this as an issue of is the rule to strict, and not a zero tolerance issue. IMO

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They leave it up to the principal to decide whether or not a fake gun looks too realistic, and if it does, what the punishment would be.

That doesn't sound like zero tolerance. It sounds like an over-reliance on other people's common sense. Anyone who thinks that piece of plastic is likely to be mistaken for a real weapon (for use by whom? Men from Lilliput?) can hardly be expected to make serious decisions.
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That doesn't sound like zero tolerance. It sounds like an over-reliance on other people's common sense. Anyone who thinks that piece of plastic is likely to be mistaken for a real weapon (for use by whom? Men from Lilliput?) can hardly be expected to make serious decisions.

I'm not laughing at your logic or your conclusion. I'm laughing at your Swift reference. :D

Edited by Wingnut
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That doesn't sound like zero tolerance. It sounds like an over-reliance on other people's common sense. Anyone who thinks that piece of plastic is likely to be mistaken for a real weapon (for use by whom? Men from Lilliput?) can hardly be expected to make serious decisions.

The problem I see is that we put our children in the care of these people who can't figure out where the line of stupidity is.

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i think part of the problem is the power has been removed from schools to do anything so they have no choice but to call the police. everyone knows the schools hands are tied, they aren't afraid of the principle anymore. when kids got sent to the office and knew they might get a paddlin' they responded to authority. but they removed that authority from the school. so you go to the principle and what???? nothing. why should they follow the rules again? police still have "authority" with the kids. but next they will say the schools can't call the cops or nothing can be done once they are called.... where will that leave the schools?

i say put the power back in the hands of the schools. i'm not saying paddlin' is the only way, or the right way. i'm saying they have to be able to do something real. i know a private school that tells the parents up front, what happens at school is dealt with at school, we don't call parents unless it's major (which would probably involve an ambulance or police call). those kids behave. they have students who were labeled as behavior problems in the public schools but have no issues there. kids stay after as consequences to actions. it might be washing all the desks, cleaning the bathroom, extra assignments (whatever the offense calls for). the parents have to wait or come back later.

as for wings link this jumped out at me...

The city has a no-tolerance policy when it comes to guns in school though, even fake ones. They leave it up to the principal to decide whether or not a fake gun looks too realistic, and if it does, what the punishment would be.

the principle was probably over reacting, the zero tolerance from what that says fake guns that look real, and how real determines the consequences.
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oh lol meant to mention.... i colored on the desk while in class when i was in kindergarten... the consequence... i missed recess, had to stay in and clean my desk, when that was done i washed as many other desks as i could with my extra time..... you know what.... i learned my lesson.

our schools would be in much better condition if consequences fit the crime like that. it would have sparkling bathrooms and fresh paint yearly. and think of all the money the city could save on labor costs, just need a couple ppl to supervise.

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oh lol meant to mention.... i colored on the desk while in class when i was in kindergarten... the consequence... i missed recess, had to stay in and clean my desk, when that was done i washed as many other desks as i could with my extra time..... you know what.... i learned my lesson.

our schools would be in much better condition if consequences fit the crime like that. it would have sparkling bathrooms and fresh paint yearly. and think of all the money the city could save on labor costs, just need a couple ppl to supervise.

Everyone wrote on the desks in my school. Every now and then the woodwork teacher would plane them off and revarnish them. (He never made a very good job of it.)

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this is why i moved out of the city. I will not have my children raised in a "Zero Tolerance" enviorment. Of cours ive come to find out we didnt move far enuf away, turns out parents are not alowed to bring homade goodies to the class party. that explains why we havent had a bakesale anyway, someome might get poisend! seriously. not funny, but at least hes alowed to bring his own scizzors to school.

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The problem I see is that we put our children in the care of these people who can't figure out where the line of stupidity is.

Are principals really so dumb that they can't tell that a Lego pistol is fake?

Or could it be that they are using zero-tolerance as an excuse to punish incorrigible little snots whose disrespectful/confrontational behavior is otherwise technically unaddressable under the school's code of conduct?

And, if the latter: are we OK with that?

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Are principals really so dumb that they can't tell that a Lego pistol is fake?

Or could it be that they are using zero-tolerance as an excuse to punish incorrigible little snots whose disrespectful/confrontational behavior is otherwise technically unaddressable under the school's code of conduct?

And, if the latter: are we OK with that?

I am okay with the latter, but I still want them to use common sense and not be rules driven robots. If discernment is not inherent then we should pray for it.

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(CNN) -- There was no profanity, no hate. Just the words, "I love my friends Abby and Faith. Lex was here 2/1/10 :)" scrawled on the classroom desk with a green marker.

Alexa Gonzalez, an outgoing 12-year-old who likes to dance and draw, expected a lecture or maybe detention for her doodles earlier this month. Instead, the principal of the Junior High School in Forest Hills, New York, called police, and the seventh-grader was taken across the street to the police precinct.

Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance - CNN.com

Possibly... UNfortunately in this day and age terror activity is very easy to come by, especially within gangs... and graffiti tends to be a gang hallmark. So it's easy to over react.. but on the other hand something like that could also be an indicator of something bigger.

This also really depends on the location- for instance if it was where I live, it probably would be overreaction, whereas if it was somewhere where there's a lot of gang activity, then not so much.

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