Thoughts of Walking out on Marriage

[LadyGirl]

Hey, everyone. I really would appreciate advice.

Every now and then, I have thoughts of up and leaving my husband. I've even mentioned it a couple of times, but he finds ways to make it seem like everything's okay.

Here's the thing. Since marrying him 3 years ago, I've become LESS active in the church. I feel like every Sunday morning, it's a chore to get him to go to church. He's always full of excuses. Today, he told me going to Priesthood and Sunday School are not important, only Sacrament is important. However, every Sunday he drags slowly along, then goes, "Looks like we might miss Sacrament." There have been times I've just up and gone myself. He'd eventually join, but he'd pout.

He never suggests going to the temple. He has in the past, but of course, excuses come up when it's time. He's never mentioned reading the scriptures together. In fact, I have to be the one to bring up these subjects because he won't. I make the temple appointments. And I kid you not, we almost always get in a fight before attending the temple because he pouts like a child when his excuses don't make me change my mind. I end up praying and crying for comfort so that I can receive the spirit while in the temple; which I do, and our day always gets way better after we've been through a session.

I want him, and I've told him several times, to step it up as a priesthood holder. He works Monday-Friday 7:30am to 4:00pm. He says he just wants Sundays as his days off like his Saturdays. So when he misses church, he plays video games.

About a month ago, I asked him what I needed to do as a wife to help him WANT to go to church more. He told me to not be so pushy, but become sweet and loving. I tried that. Today, I was being very sweet with him, asking him if I could help him with anything, and what I could do for him. Of course, his answer was "nothing, I just don't want to go." Finally I just left because I didn't feel like babying him anymore.

I feel like I've tried everything with this guy. He was born and raised in the church, he's never abused me, he's never called me names, he's never raised his voice at me either. His parents are very active, and he's a good guy; I'm just getting extremely sick of his excuses when it comes to living up his priesthood. I've gone down the sweet nice wife route, and I regret I've been down the not-so-nice route.

One more thing, I apologize for this being long. He has a tendency to "punish" me. Like today. He came to church and attended his meetings, but afterwards, told me he was going to work the rest of the day. This is the one weekend out of the entire year his work MAY need him; he's a programmer, and the system he works for is being updated, so they have to move everything from the old to the new. This is every February. However, they don't need him unless they page him, which they didn't, yet he made it clear he was going to go anyway. He waited until I got home from church (we drove separately), before leaving, so I could watch him leave. Last night I was looking forward to playing a specific video game with him, but he, out of nowhere, began accusing me of pushing the "back" button on the controller, when I didn't, and out of anger, he turned off the game and said he didn't want to play with me. So, he went online and played with friends instead, leaving me sitting there by myself, clearly confused.

I just can't take this. I'm married to a 4 year old. He pouts, throws tantrums, and finds ways to punish me when he doesn't get his way. He knows how important the Gospel is to me, so sometimes he'll use it against me just to punish me. If he's mad or frustrated at me in any way, he'll purposely cancel a temple session or completely REFUSE to attend church; because he knows it would hurt me. And it does. Seriously, we need help before I walk out. I've mentioned counseling, but it's a joke when I bring it up to him.

What am I doing wrong?? I do everything for this man. I love him. I cook the meals, keep the place clean, give him a back rub every time he comes home from work; I let him spend his Saturdays and evenings playing video games. I hardly demand his attention. I let him come home and do whatever he wants. I try and make things fun for him. But the one time I ask anything out of him, I just can't have. And that's him stepping up his Priesthood. I'm exhausted.

My worst fear is someday when we have children; our sons will see his behavior and excuses, and mimic it. Or they'll see him pouting if he doesn't get his way, and they'll copy. Sigh. I'm almost done.

[Guest Alana]

My suggestion would be to go to a counselor approved by your bishop. Not for both you and your husband, but just for you. The way his behavior affects you so much isn't fair to yourself and you need to get to a place where you do what you do because it's what you choose to do (do do do da dooo!).

Also, a question, if your husband decided he didn't believe in God, would you divorce him? Why?

[Gwen]

i agree with alana's question. you need to figure out if your love for you husband is based on his belief in the church. also i suggest you not have children till this is sorted out. kids won't make it better, only worse. they deserve a stable home.

[mrmarklin]

You ARE married to an immature baby. Leave him now before you have any children and find an actual Man to marry.

I don't think you need to waste a lot of time and money in counselling to arrive at a proper conclusion with this jerk.

[Truegrits]

I feel like I've tried everything with this guy.

Try not trying. You do what you need to do for you... You go to Church, if he wants to accompany you, fine. You go to the Temple. Don't cajole or nag him to do these things, instead show him that you are going to continue on, with or without him. Can't hurt, right? That is what I would try.

[TheNewChristina]

Greetings, LadyGirl!

My husband is an atheist and I converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints shortly after we were married. He has no interest in the church, whatsoever. All I can do is pray and be an example to him. My take on marriage to an unbeliever is found in 1 Corinthians. I would think the same could apply to a husband that is inactive in the church.

"Now, I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord. If a Christian man has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to continue living with him, he must not leave her. And if a Christian woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to continue living with her, she must not leave him. For the Christian wife brings holiness to her marriage, and the Christian husband brings holiness to his marriage. Otherwise, your children would not be holy, but now they are holy. (But if the husband or wife who isn't a believer insists on leaving, let them go. In such cases the Christian husband or wife is no longer bound to the other, for God has called you to live in peace.) Don't you wives realize that your husbands might be saved because of you? And don't you husbands realize that your wives might be saved because of you? 17Each of you should continue to live in whatever situation the Lord has placed you, and remain as you were when God first called you. This is my rule for all the churches." -- 1 Corinthians 7: 12-17

[Just_A_Guy]

I agree with Gwen - don't bring children into this until you've resolved the whole situation.

On the one hand--re the pouting and tantrums: frankly, you're pressuring him to do something that he just doesn't want to do. People don't like losing marital power struggles. Your husband should probably choose more mature ways of expressing his dissatisfaction; but if you've managed to wheedle him into coming to Church you've basically just won a battle and he's just lost it. Expecting him to act happy about it is a little much.

On the other hand--he (presumably) led you to believe, during your courtship, that he would stay involved in the Church. If he's reneging on that commitment--I think that's a legitimate dealbreaker, especially where there aren't kids involved who will be harmed by their parents' divorce.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[ferretrunner]

Go to church and Temple by yourself. It may be hard and you'll probably feel like a piece is missing. You'll still feed your soul without the stress of the arguments. When you get back from church, politely and enthusiastically share what you learned with him. Try to bring him in discussion with you. If he doesn't want to, respect that. You can't force someone to be a good priesthood holder and/or attend church. He has to decide that on his own. Pray for him.

I know this must be hard. I watched my parents go through something similar. Fighting won't resolve it. Maybe, if he's willing, talking to a counselor might help.

Good luck.

[JudoMinja]

He has a tendency to "punish" me. Like today. He came to church and attended his meetings, but afterwards, told me he was going to work the rest of the day. This is the one weekend out of the entire year his work MAY need him; he's a programmer, and the system he works for is being updated, so they have to move everything from the old to the new. This is every February. However, they don't need him unless they page him, which they didn't, yet he made it clear he was going to go anyway. He waited until I got home from church (we drove separately), before leaving, so I could watch him leave. Last night I was looking forward to playing a specific video game with him, but he, out of nowhere, began accusing me of pushing the "back" button on the controller, when I didn't, and out of anger, he turned off the game and said he didn't want to play with me. So, he went online and played with friends instead, leaving me sitting there by myself, clearly confused.

I just can't take this. I'm married to a 4 year old. He pouts, throws tantrums, and finds ways to punish me when he doesn't get his way. He knows how important the Gospel is to me, so sometimes he'll use it against me just to punish me. If he's mad or frustrated at me in any way, he'll purposely cancel a temple session or completely REFUSE to attend church; because he knows it would hurt me. And it does. Seriously, we need help before I walk out. I've mentioned counseling, but it's a joke when I bring it up to him.

What am I doing wrong?? I do everything for this man. I love him. I cook the meals, keep the place clean, give him a back rub every time he comes home from work; I let him spend his Saturdays and evenings playing video games. I hardly demand his attention. I let him come home and do whatever he wants. I try and make things fun for him. But the one time I ask anything out of him, I just can't have. And that's him stepping up his Priesthood. I'm exhausted.

My worst fear is someday when we have children; our sons will see his behavior and excuses, and mimic it. Or they'll see him pouting if he doesn't get his way, and they'll copy. Sigh. I'm almost done.

This punishing behavior is a form of emotional manipulation. I would suggest you find and read the following book- Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward.

Emotional manipulation is used by many people in the world, and they usually don't even realize they are doing it. Their tactics include tantrums, pouting, punishments, being cut off from them, and unwarranted guilt trips, all an attempt to get their way and maintain control of the relationship. Usually, when someone is behaving in this way, it is because they have some unresolved fears of their own.

Perhaps your husband is afraid that if he is not faithful enough you will not love him. Yes, his behavior is immature, but is this fear warranted? WOULD you leave him if it turned out he doesn't share your faith and only attends church because he feels it is his duty?

I agree with Truegrits. Stop trying. Do what his best for you and let him make his own decisions. As long as he is not forcing you to miss church with him, he's only hurting himself. Show him that church is important enough to you that you will continue to attend and fulfill your callings and go to the temple, whether he wishes to join you or not, and then stop pushing and coaxing. Tell him that he is free to do as he pleases, and that you will continue to do as you please.

Counceling could be of some help in resolving whatever is causing him to behave in this emotionally manipulative way, but just as with church you can not force him to go. He has to decide to do it on his own.

Don't think of walking out on your marriage if this is your only problem. Yes, religion, faith, and church play an important role in our families and how we choose our spouses. I am guessing he probably went through the motions and appeared very faithful while you were dating him and only started acting this way after you were married. BUT, you love him enough that you committed yourself to marriage with all his flaws. If you truly value this commitment, you will see it through the good and the bad. He is probably just having a crisis of faith and dealing with it very poorly.

You are not doing anything wrong except trying to make your husband behave in a way he does not want to. As long as his excuses are only keeping him from going to church and not pulling you down with him, then he is not being overly controlling in his behavior, just VERY difficult. If you can be accepting of who he is as a whole, even should he decide he just doesn't want to go to church anymore, then maybe he will overcome his fears. Keep doing what you know will make you stronger- don't miss church for his sake, but don't leave him if he doesn't want to share in this with you.

[Mahone]

You ARE married to an immature baby. Leave him now before you have any children and find an actual Man to marry.

I don't think you need to waste a lot of time and money in counselling to arrive at a proper conclusion with this jerk.

Careful here. This is not some random boy likes girl scenario. They married each other, that must at least mean something. I would hope that seeing as they are already married, they'd at least love each other enough to give everything a go to make it work before deciding to end it. That's not a decision to be made lightly.

[ryanh]

Some good advice so far. Glad your OP was long as it helped to understand the situation.

I wanted to add yet another voice saying don't think kids are the answer!!! Having children will not make things better. They likely will not 'inspire' him to step up. It's adds lots of stresses and distance in a marriage, and the marriage needs to be firmly founded before the kids come IMO. It’s not fair to children to bring them into a marriage as a “tool”, rather than because of the desire to serve and bring spirits to earth.

He clearly needs to grow up. It's hard to say if that will ever happen. Sorry to be a little harsh, but I think there are some things you need to look at in yourself too. Figuring out if what you want, as has been pointed out, is one of them. Another is to look at how you are contributing (perhaps giving too much?), or taking offense when not necessary. I also read a lot of focus on the negative (I understand that there is a particular issue you are seeking advice on, so the post may not be representative). It just ‘feels’ like his actions and inactivity may have become a beam in your eye skewing your view of his mote.

The only thing you can really change is YOU. You cannot change him. So, you must figure out if you can put up with this, if this relationship is worth maintaining your vows for, etc.

Finally, the next time you do an endowment session, listen to your covenant to follow your husband. It has a qualifier in there. It's is not a unilateral/unconditional covenant.

Books to read: Behind the Smiling Faces, and Too Good To Leave, Too Bad to Stay

[rameumptom]

My answer is: it depends.

If you have children, stick through it for the kids. Learn to appreciate the good things your husband does for you, and just hope that one day he'll grow up.

If you don't have children, then you need to decide now what to do. Don't have kids until this is resolved. There is nothing else holding you together, if he isn't keeping his temple covenants.

After all, you married him in the temple with the understanding he was going to keep those covenants. He is now attempting to change the marriage agreement. That isn't fair. TheNewChristina noted that she's married to an atheist. While she joined the Church later, she did not insist on changing her relationship with her husband. OTOH, your husband seems to think that the covenants he has made can be ignored at best. Whatever you choose, make sure you do it with guidance from your Bishop and the Holy Spirit.

Edited February 22, 2010 by rameumptom

[NeuroTypical]

Here's my general take on giving advice to other people about their marriages. This is LM just speaking as LM here - don't confuse me for a Bishop or churchy person.

* If you have kids, you should move heaven and earth to fix your marriage. You should push yourself far more than you ever thought possible to be the best person you could be. You should endure more than you feel is fair, to hold the marriage together. If you're unhappy, remake yourself into someone who is happy.

* If you don't have kids, I don't really care one way or the other. I hope whatever you decide works for you. I believe the world would be a better place if it were full of people who had kids after a troubled first marriage ended in divorce and they tried again from a position of greater learning and maturity.

LM

Edited February 22, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[WillowTheWhisp]

What am I doing wrong?? I do everything for this man.

That is possibly what you are doing wrong. He sounds very much like a spoilt child used to getting his own way.

[mrmarklin]

Careful here. This is not some random boy likes girl scenario. They married each other, that must at least mean something. I would hope that seeing as they are already married, they'd at least love each other enough to give everything a go to make it work before deciding to end it. That's not a decision to be made lightly.

It is marraige and that's certainly important. But we are talking about Four Years of bad behavior. People don't change that readily, and bad habits are very hard to break.

Leaving can be a wake up call, and not necessarily final. It's the only lever she has left, and remember she was very young when first married.

.

[noche10]

My only question for you is . Have you asked him why he dosent want to go to church nd attend the temple ???

Is he ashemned is there something he needs to conffess ??? I only say this because of my own experiance with my h ..

So if he wants to act like a child then question him like one ??

Why dont you want to go to church ?

Is there a reason you dont feel confortable attending the temple ??

Is there something you need to take care of first with the bishop ??

Good luck

hang in there

[Guest mirancs8]

Really THINK and PRAY about how you both can work on these issues before you have children together.

Children will not take the problem away. You will have a few months of excitement and after that it will only get worse. I along with others on here I'm sure can tell you that this can become the case. My ex believed that by us having children it would help our relationship. No. Instead it cause much more friction, anger, and frustration.

YOU MUST first work on yourself and your husband needs to work on himself. As a couple you must work to better your relationship together. ONLY when you have done that successfully should you bring children into your lives. Children will complicate any hope in you and your husband making your relationship grow. Children are not a tool to be used in fixing a marriage they are to be brought into this world by two loving passionate parents who work together to raise their children.

Good luck

[LadyGirl]

First of all, thank you so much for your replies. I had a good cry and a lot of time to think about things.

My suggestion would be to go to a counselor approved by your bishop. Not for both you and your husband, but just for you. The way his behavior affects you so much isn't fair to yourself and you need to get to a place where you do what you do because it's what you choose to do (do do do da dooo!).

Also, a question, if your husband decided he didn't believe in God, would you divorce him? Why?

Thank you for this advice. I probably would like to see someone for myself. As for your question, I did a lot of thinking as well as the posts of others. The Gospel is extremely important to me, but I would stick it out if he chose not to believe. It's the other parts of him, like his childish behavior, that make me worried.

Try not trying. You do what you need to do for you... You go to Church, if he wants to accompany you, fine. You go to the Temple. Don't cajole or nag him to do these things, instead show him that you are going to continue on, with or without him. Can't hurt, right? That is what I would try.

This is great advice, and thank you for sharing. I will continue to do what I know I'm supposed to do, and hopefully leave an example to him.

Greetings, LadyGirl!

My husband is an atheist and I converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints shortly after we were married. He has no interest in the church, whatsoever. All I can do is pray and be an example to him. My take on marriage to an unbeliever is found in 1 Corinthians. I would think the same could apply to a husband that is inactive in the church.

"Now, I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord. If a Christian man has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to continue living with him, he must not leave her. And if a Christian woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to continue living with her, she must not leave him. For the Christian wife brings holiness to her marriage, and the Christian husband brings holiness to his marriage. Otherwise, your children would not be holy, but now they are holy. (But if the husband or wife who isn't a believer insists on leaving, let them go. In such cases the Christian husband or wife is no longer bound to the other, for God has called you to live in peace.) Don't you wives realize that your husbands might be saved because of you? And don't you husbands realize that your wives might be saved because of you? 17Each of you should continue to live in whatever situation the Lord has placed you, and remain as you were when God first called you. This is my rule for all the churches." -- 1 Corinthians 7: 12-17

This made me cry. Thank you so much for sharing. It has a great point included: how I could be the one to help him strengthen his testimony.

I agree with Gwen - don't bring children into this until you've resolved the whole situation.

On the one hand--re the pouting and tantrums: frankly, you're pressuring him to do something that he just doesn't want to do. People don't like losing marital power struggles. Your husband should probably choose more mature ways of expressing his dissatisfaction; but if you've managed to wheedle him into coming to Church you've basically just won a battle and he's just lost it. Expecting him to act happy about it is a little much.

On the other hand--he (presumably) led you to believe, during your courtship, that he would stay involved in the Church. If he's reneging on that commitment--I think that's a legitimate dealbreaker, especially where there aren't kids involved who will be harmed by their parents' divorce.

Thanks for sharing your advice; and this does make sense as well. Pressuring him only makes it worse.

Go to church and Temple by yourself. It may be hard and you'll probably feel like a piece is missing. You'll still feed your soul without the stress of the arguments. When you get back from church, politely and enthusiastically share what you learned with him. Try to bring him in discussion with you. If he doesn't want to, respect that. You can't force someone to be a good priesthood holder and/or attend church. He has to decide that on his own. Pray for him.

I know this must be hard. I watched my parents go through something similar. Fighting won't resolve it. Maybe, if he's willing, talking to a counselor might help.

Good luck.

Thank you, I will follow this.

This punishing behavior is a form of emotional manipulation. I would suggest you find and read the following book- Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward.

Emotional manipulation is used by many people in the world, and they usually don't even realize they are doing it. Their tactics include tantrums, pouting, punishments, being cut off from them, and unwarranted guilt trips, all an attempt to get their way and maintain control of the relationship. Usually, when someone is behaving in this way, it is because they have some unresolved fears of their own.

Perhaps your husband is afraid that if he is not faithful enough you will not love him. Yes, his behavior is immature, but is this fear warranted? WOULD you leave him if it turned out he doesn't share your faith and only attends church because he feels it is his duty?

I agree with Truegrits. Stop trying. Do what his best for you and let him make his own decisions. As long as he is not forcing you to miss church with him, he's only hurting himself. Show him that church is important enough to you that you will continue to attend and fulfill your callings and go to the temple, whether he wishes to join you or not, and then stop pushing and coaxing. Tell him that he is free to do as he pleases, and that you will continue to do as you please.

Counceling could be of some help in resolving whatever is causing him to behave in this emotionally manipulative way, but just as with church you can not force him to go. He has to decide to do it on his own.

Don't think of walking out on your marriage if this is your only problem. Yes, religion, faith, and church play an important role in our families and how we choose our spouses. I am guessing he probably went through the motions and appeared very faithful while you were dating him and only started acting this way after you were married. BUT, you love him enough that you committed yourself to marriage with all his flaws. If you truly value this commitment, you will see it through the good and the bad. He is probably just having a crisis of faith and dealing with it very poorly.

You are not doing anything wrong except trying to make your husband behave in a way he does not want to. As long as his excuses are only keeping him from going to church and not pulling you down with him, then he is not being overly controlling in his behavior, just VERY difficult. If you can be accepting of who he is as a whole, even should he decide he just doesn't want to go to church anymore, then maybe he will overcome his fears. Keep doing what you know will make you stronger- don't miss church for his sake, but don't leave him if he doesn't want to share in this with you.

Thank you so much. I do believe he plays the emotional manipulation game; but I'm not perfect and have done that myself. I'll consider that book-thanks for sharing.

Some good advice so far. Glad your OP was long as it helped to understand the situation.

I wanted to add yet another voice saying don't think kids are the answer!!! Having children will not make things better. They likely will not 'inspire' him to step up. It's adds lots of stresses and distance in a marriage, and the marriage needs to be firmly founded before the kids come IMO. It’s not fair to children to bring them into a marriage as a “tool”, rather than because of the desire to serve and bring spirits to earth.

He clearly needs to grow up. It's hard to say if that will ever happen. Sorry to be a little harsh, but I think there are some things you need to look at in yourself too. Figuring out if what you want, as has been pointed out, is one of them. Another is to look at how you are contributing (perhaps giving too much?), or taking offense when not necessary. I also read a lot of focus on the negative (I understand that there is a particular issue you are seeking advice on, so the post may not be representative). It just ‘feels’ like his actions and inactivity may have become a beam in your eye skewing your view of his mote.

The only thing you can really change is YOU. You cannot change him. So, you must figure out if you can put up with this, if this relationship is worth maintaining your vows for, etc.

Finally, the next time you do an endowment session, listen to your covenant to follow your husband. It has a qualifier in there. It's is not a unilateral/unconditional covenant.

Books to read: Behind the Smiling Faces, and Too Good To Leave, Too Bad to Stay

Thank you for your advice.

My answer is: it depends.

If you have children, stick through it for the kids. Learn to appreciate the good things your husband does for you, and just hope that one day he'll grow up.

If you don't have children, then you need to decide now what to do. Don't have kids until this is resolved. There is nothing else holding you together, if he isn't keeping his temple covenants.

After all, you married him in the temple with the understanding he was going to keep those covenants. He is now attempting to change the marriage agreement. That isn't fair. TheNewChristina noted that she's married to an atheist. While she joined the Church later, she did not insist on changing her relationship with her husband. OTOH, your husband seems to think that the covenants he has made can be ignored at best. Whatever you choose, make sure you do it with guidance from your Bishop and the Holy Spirit.

You're right, and thank you for sharing your words.

My only question for you is . Have you asked him why he dosent want to go to church nd attend the temple ???

Is he ashemned is there something he needs to conffess ??? I only say this because of my own experiance with my h ..

So if he wants to act like a child then question him like one ??

Why dont you want to go to church ?

Is there a reason you dont feel confortable attending the temple ??

Is there something you need to take care of first with the bishop ??

Good luck

hang in there

I have spoken to him, and his main excuse is just being too tired. He works all week, and he just wants to kick back before he starts again on Monday. He says adding church to the list seems like too much at times.

Here's the update: He came to me later and apologized for his actions, saying he should have handled the situation better. He admitted he has been slacking in the church, and promised he'll step it up. Here's the thing...my husband is very intelligent, has a lot of knowledge of the Gospel, yet his struggling point is attending church and keeping up with everything. He'll still go almost every week, and attend his meetings, yet it's been difficult giving him that extra push. He then promised an upcoming temple session this weekend, so we could seek guidance and strength. I appreciated this. We still say our prayers daily, he's always been on top of prayers...I don't have to nudge him for this. It was mostly church attendance, temple attendance, and scripture reading. I just hated and got tired of listening to excuses about going to church. He told me he'd stop and step it up, and how he still and has always believed in God and the church. He's just exhausted at times and will make excuses to relax at home. We had a long discussion on this which I dearly appreciated, and thanked the Lord later for.

I guess my main issue is his behavior.

When we were first married, my husband told me my independence was something he fell in love with. I was always doing things myself and taking care of things. Throughout the years, I fell into a trap of depending on him to fix every problem. Something wasn't working, he fixed it. I had an issue with somebody or a company, he took care of it. When we moved out of my hometown to a new city where he got his new job, I began being a stay-at-home wife, since I worked 2 jobs to put him through school. However, I have been looking for work, and I'm also a student, trying to finish myself.

I'm just confused.

Several months ago, I had an issue with Microsoft Zune. They purchased points when I had never confirmed it. My husband, at the time, said he'd file a complaint about it.

I had forgotten about it until he mentioned yesterday he was filing that complaint. He came home from work and immediately began filing everything. So, that was that. However, early this morning, he woke me up and asked me the details again. Since I had just woken up, and it was several months ago, I didn't remember all the details. Frustrated, he began chewing me out about how now he's going to look stupid because my story "keeps changing", and how I'm a liar. I told him I was not lying, I just couldn't remember everything. He ignored what I said and repeatedly called me a liar, saying he could no longer trust me. He told me I stole the money instead of the company because I was lying, and how I shouldn't go shopping anymore because I'll just lie about what I'll spend. He was going WAY overboard with the situation. He was talking down to me like I'm a teenager who just got caught with weed; instead of talking to me like I'm his wife.

This got me crying because I was just too tired to listen, and he stormed out. Moments later, he apologized via text message, saying he could have handled it way better.

I understand this was my problem with the Zune; and he didn't have to do a thing about it. I let him take care of it, and when I didn't remember the details, he felt like a fool thinking he could have put wrong information in. I understand his frustration, but I don't understand why he threw such a tantrum.

It's getting to the point where I'm starting to believe my dependency on him is turning him into this. He has a choice how to handle his words; and he doesn't do a very good job.

Bah, I just don't know.

[Guest]

LadyGirl... you need to be a little strong to handle what I'm going to say. If you feel you're not at a point where you can take criticism, please, just skip my post, okay? I don't want to make things worse for you. I want you to understand that what I say here is said as a sister who wants to help. I am not a professional adviser, so I just might fail in this - and I just might be wrong as well. But know that I'm saying this to truly try to help.

Ready?

From your initial post, my very first impression is - Oh no.

Right now, what you are doing is making things worse.

A very big lesson I learned in life (now, I'm a middle aged lady who has been through quite a lot) - you cannot and should not try to control other people. You can only control how you react to it. For every choice that somebody makes that affects you - you only have 1 decision to make - accept or reject.

Let's apply this to your situation. You married your husband with complete understanding that he will be your eternal partner. This necessitates that he remain true to his priesthood calling. Unfortunately, he is at a point that he is wavering. The reasons for this may not be something that you completely understand - what he tells you could possibly be just an alibi he makes because first, he might be at a stage where his testimony is being tried and tested and he is struggling and can't bring himself to admit it, or he might be just getting overwhelmed with life in general and church is his whipping post. Whatever it is - this is for him to contend with. Having to answer to you just makes it all the more a struggle for him and you get the brunt of all that frustration. Because, who likes to see somebody's finger pointing accusingly at you - especially your wifes? Nobody. It is always cause for resentment. No, no, you are not pointing accusatory fingers at him - that's not what I meant. What I mean is - the more you egg him to Choose The Right, the more he will see your "goodness" as a finger pointing to his face splashing his "badness" back at him. Girl, we both know he deserves it and that he needs to wake up and smell the roses. But, this is not the approach that is working right now. Everything else that you're saying - the temper - the irrational behavior - this is all stemming from this.

So, you need to remember - you cannot change him, you cannot control him. You can only control how you react to it. So, right now - his testimony is wavering - you need to decide - Accept or Reject.

Here are your options:

Accept - let him be. You concentrate on getting your spirituality intact. Tell him you are going to church and ask him to come with you - no pressure. If he comes, great. If he doesn't, okay. Don't play the "long suffering wife" routine (a lot of times, we unconsciously do it). Make him understand that whatever choice he makes, you accept it. Make him understand that you have a strong testimony of the gospel and you hope he will get it as well, but that you love him no matter what. Make him feel that he can be less than perfect right now but you won't abandon him. And make him feel that you are there to help him when he is ready to get better. Put your trust and faith in the Lord. Be as strong as you can be. You will need to be strong for the both of you. Be patient. Be humble. Love him. Be the perfect wife.

Reject - if you feel you can't be with somebody who cannot be strong in the gospel, then tell him so and leave. That's really all you can do. Think - sure, you're gonna leave him, then what? You're going to find somebody better? Sure - you're gonna marry this bishop who is so strong in the gospel... what happens 10 years later if he falters? You're gonna leave him too? What I'm saying Girl is that - you cannot control these things. You just can't. If you're gonna reject - then just hope you find Mr. Gospel Perfect. You might get lucky.

Some wise person in lds.net (can't remember who) said this: The grass is always greener in the side that you water.

Hope this helps.

[Elgama]

ok am going to be brutal (sorry if its wrong and its not intended nastily) he's not the only one whining like a 4 year old right now - he is not the reason you are not going to church you are, you are expecting him to step up as the priesthood holder but are not willing to step up as the matriarch in your home. I am not the worlds greatest housewife but I am sure as heck not going to use cleaning and housework - in fact why isn't he helping? as emotional blackmail for my husband to go to church, if he has no testimony what is the point? Its then time to decide ok my husband is inactive he is still head of the home but if I become inactive too then our children stand no chance.

If he fell in love with your independence and right now you are relying on him to keep you active, he's taking on a burden he didn't expect, you are expecting perfection from him without giving him the same courtesy. I could be wrong maybe he is abusive and awful and lazy and terrible and the worse man on the planet. But if he is a good man and you are a good woman you can make your marriage work

Edited February 23, 2010 by Elgama

[JudoMinja]

I guess my main issue is his behavior.

When we were first married, my husband told me my independence was something he fell in love with. I was always doing things myself and taking care of things. Throughout the years, I fell into a trap of depending on him to fix every problem. Something wasn't working, he fixed it. I had an issue with somebody or a company, he took care of it. When we moved out of my hometown to a new city where he got his new job, I began being a stay-at-home wife, since I worked 2 jobs to put him through school. However, I have been looking for work, and I'm also a student, trying to finish myself.

I'm just confused.

Several months ago, I had an issue with Microsoft Zune. They purchased points when I had never confirmed it. My husband, at the time, said he'd file a complaint about it.

I had forgotten about it until he mentioned yesterday he was filing that complaint. He came home from work and immediately began filing everything. So, that was that. However, early this morning, he woke me up and asked me the details again. Since I had just woken up, and it was several months ago, I didn't remember all the details. Frustrated, he began chewing me out about how now he's going to look stupid because my story "keeps changing", and how I'm a liar. I told him I was not lying, I just couldn't remember everything. He ignored what I said and repeatedly called me a liar, saying he could no longer trust me. He told me I stole the money instead of the company because I was lying, and how I shouldn't go shopping anymore because I'll just lie about what I'll spend. He was going WAY overboard with the situation. He was talking down to me like I'm a teenager who just got caught with weed; instead of talking to me like I'm his wife.

I will approach this issue as something entirely different from your original post- I think it is good that you have been open to the advice of others on here and that your relationship will benefit from giving him more lee-way in church matters instead of expecting perfection out of him.

His behavior is something entirely different. This post only reaffirms my feelings that he tends to use emotional manipulation, and his reaction to your Zune issue even borders on verbal abuse. I think you both could benefit from reading the suggested book and seeking out counseling.

If you want his behavior to change you need to approach that behavior, not the issues that cause the behavior to arise. Heres what I mean: When he put on his "4 year old tantrum mode" with church, you attempted to correct his unwillingness to participate in church meetings. When he pulled out this attitude with your Zune problem, you focused on trying to correct the misunderstanding. I will give you an example of a response you could have used in this Zune situation to address his behavior, and you can use the same tactics should this behavior crop up in other matters.

When he started calling you a liar and chewing you out, shift your focus to this. Tell him that his reaction is unacceptable, his words are cutting and scathing, and you will not be talked to in such a way. Tell him that you do not appreciate being treated like a child or accused of stealing. Tell him "give me some time to think about this. It's been a long time since this happened, and I don't remember all the details. I'm tired. We can talk about this later." Then let it go. Drop the topic and approach him about it later when you have an answer for him.

This approach is very useful in countering emotional manipulation. I will outline what I described in the example:

1. Address the unwanted behavior and explain that it is unacceptabe.

2. Set a rule- "I will not communicate with you when you speak to me in this way".

3. Respct yourself as an adult and expect him to do the same- don't allow him to talk down to you.

4. Respect him as an adult- don't cut him down as a response to him cutting you down. Just lay down the ground rules for acceptable communication.

5. Give yourself some time to think about the matter that caused the outburst and approach it again when you feel comfortable.

If he is not and has no intention of being abusive, he will work with you when you respond this way and his behavior should slowly improve.

I hope you find this helpful.

[LadyGirl]

LadyGirl... you need to be a little strong to handle what I'm going to say. If you feel you're not at a point where you can take criticism, please, just skip my post, okay? I don't want to make things worse for you. I want you to understand that what I say here is said as a sister who wants to help. I am not a professional adviser, so I just might fail in this - and I just might be wrong as well. But know that I'm saying this to truly try to help.

Ready?

From your initial post, my very first impression is - Oh no.

Right now, what you are doing is making things worse.

A very big lesson I learned in life (now, I'm a middle aged lady who has been through quite a lot) - you cannot and should not try to control other people. You can only control how you react to it. For every choice that somebody makes that affects you - you only have 1 decision to make - accept or reject.

Let's apply this to your situation. You married your husband with complete understanding that he will be your eternal partner. This necessitates that he remain true to his priesthood calling. Unfortunately, he is at a point that he is wavering. The reasons for this may not be something that you completely understand - what he tells you could possibly be just an alibi he makes because first, he might be at a stage where his testimony is being tried and tested and he is struggling and can't bring himself to admit it, or he might be just getting overwhelmed with life in general and church is his whipping post. Whatever it is - this is for him to contend with. Having to answer to you just makes it all the more a struggle for him and you get the brunt of all that frustration. Because, who likes to see somebody's finger pointing accusingly at you - especially your wifes? Nobody. It is always cause for resentment. No, no, you are not pointing accusatory fingers at him - that's not what I meant. What I mean is - the more you egg him to Choose The Right, the more he will see your "goodness" as a finger pointing to his face splashing his "badness" back at him. Girl, we both know he deserves it and that he needs to wake up and smell the roses. But, this is not the approach that is working right now. Everything else that you're saying - the temper - the irrational behavior - this is all stemming from this.

So, you need to remember - you cannot change him, you cannot control him. You can only control how you react to it. So, right now - his testimony is wavering - you need to decide - Accept or Reject.

Here are your options:

Accept - let him be. You concentrate on getting your spirituality intact. Tell him you are going to church and ask him to come with you - no pressure. If he comes, great. If he doesn't, okay. Don't play the "long suffering wife" routine (a lot of times, we unconsciously do it). Make him understand that whatever choice he makes, you accept it. Make him understand that you have a strong testimony of the gospel and you hope he will get it as well, but that you love him no matter what. Make him feel that he can be less than perfect right now but you won't abandon him. And make him feel that you are there to help him when he is ready to get better. Put your trust and faith in the Lord. Be as strong as you can be. You will need to be strong for the both of you. Be patient. Be humble. Love him. Be the perfect wife.

Reject - if you feel you can't be with somebody who cannot be strong in the gospel, then tell him so and leave. That's really all you can do. Think - sure, you're gonna leave him, then what? You're going to find somebody better? Sure - you're gonna marry this bishop who is so strong in the gospel... what happens 10 years later if he falters? You're gonna leave him too? What I'm saying Girl is that - you cannot control these things. You just can't. If you're gonna reject - then just hope you find Mr. Gospel Perfect. You might get lucky.

Some wise person in lds.net (can't remember who) said this: The grass is always greener in the side that you water.

Hope this helps.

This is excellent, and your point makes complete sense. It gives me something to definitely think about. Thank you for sharing this with me.

I will approach this issue as something entirely different from your original post- I think it is good that you have been open to the advice of others on here and that your relationship will benefit from giving him more lee-way in church matters instead of expecting perfection out of him.

His behavior is something entirely different. This post only reaffirms my feelings that he tends to use emotional manipulation, and his reaction to your Zune issue even borders on verbal abuse. I think you both could benefit from reading the suggested book and seeking out counseling.

If you want his behavior to change you need to approach that behavior, not the issues that cause the behavior to arise. Heres what I mean: When he put on his "4 year old tantrum mode" with church, you attempted to correct his unwillingness to participate in church meetings. When he pulled out this attitude with your Zune problem, you focused on trying to correct the misunderstanding. I will give you an example of a response you could have used in this Zune situation to address his behavior, and you can use the same tactics should this behavior crop up in other matters.

When he started calling you a liar and chewing you out, shift your focus to this. Tell him that his reaction is unacceptable, his words are cutting and scathing, and you will not be talked to in such a way. Tell him that you do not appreciate being treated like a child or accused of stealing. Tell him "give me some time to think about this. It's been a long time since this happened, and I don't remember all the details. I'm tired. We can talk about this later." Then let it go. Drop the topic and approach him about it later when you have an answer for him.

This approach is very useful in countering emotional manipulation. I will outline what I described in the example:

1. Address the unwanted behavior and explain that it is unacceptabe.

2. Set a rule- "I will not communicate with you when you speak to me in this way".

3. Respct yourself as an adult and expect him to do the same- don't allow him to talk down to you.

4. Respect him as an adult- don't cut him down as a response to him cutting you down. Just lay down the ground rules for acceptable communication.

5. Give yourself some time to think about the matter that caused the outburst and approach it again when you feel comfortable.

If he is not and has no intention of being abusive, he will work with you when you respond this way and his behavior should slowly improve.

I hope you find this helpful.

This is wonderful- thank you for sharing. I've always had a hard time dealing with a situation while in-the-moment without getting upset or emotional. This is a great way to communicate without adding fuel. Again, thanks.

I did come to him yesterday evening, and we were able to calmly talk it out, and really listen to one another. Once we were able to see the sides of each, we set goals for ourselves and exchanged promises that we would strive to work as a team. I was able to use the advice of all of you to help build up a way to communicate to my husband. So, thank you, all of you, for your words of advice and wisdom. I know communication is something we definitely need to improve, even if it may involve counseling. We are constantly misunderstanding each other, and out of frustration, say things we don't mean and without thinking. We ended our discussion with a prayer, and weights were lifted; it brought us closer together. I'm not expecting perfection in the future, but we're learning new ways to listen and adjust to one another. So again, thanks.

[Gwen]

i would like to extend judominja's thoughts in a slightly different direction... hope you don't mind.

i agree with what judo is saying, address the behavior and don't let him treat you that way. i would like to suggest that part of this process has nothing to do with things said to him or about him. you commented on how you have changed over time, from independent to codependent, etc. figure out why that changed. what do you do that is different?

a personal experience....

i can't explain why this works but something i've been learning over several yrs (maybe you can learn it faster than me lol). i used to watch dr phil (a long time ago, he's gotten to much like a talk show for me now lol) and he used to say all the time "you teach ppl how to treat you". i always liked that and tucked it away but never "did" anything with it. one day i realized i didn't like how i was being treated. i was allowing myself to be treated poorly. i got upset and decided no more. i wasn't going to put up with it. so every time i was treated in a way i didn't like i was very vocal in saying i wouldn't allow it. but it kept happening anyway. i got more vocal, would get a bit of a short term result but nothing long term. all that happened was i turned into a banshee. then one day i didn't like who i was that way either. decided it wasn't worth it. i got fed up and finally (like i said this was over several yrs learning curve for me) said, if no one else will treat me right i will. and i changed how i treated me. i realized how much i had changed over the yrs, i started to become who i wanted to be, the woman i remembered and liked. i didn't complain when i didn't like how i was treated by others, i just treated me how i felt i deserved to be treated. started taking care of me again. i can't explain why but ppl started treating me differently. and then it hit me "you teach ppl how to treat you...... by how you treat yourself" it's not about what you demand from others, it's what you demand from you. i started looking at others around me. what do i know about how they treat themselves? how is that like how ppl around them treat them? i found a pattern. i can't explain it. i don't know why it works. i can't prove it. you don't have to believe me. i know i lived it. when you are all out of options may want to think on it.

maybe that helps somehow.

[ryanh]

Excellent points Judo. I cringed a little bit as I read that recount of the interaction.

LadyGirl: If this is a pattern of action by him, take serious heed to Judo's words. The whole scenario of him taking over control of most every task and responsibility is also unnerving. If you don't wake up now, you might wake up later and find yourself far more trapped in an abusive relationship that you ever thought possible.

Time to shake things up for sure. I'd second following the advice of Judo and Anatess and see what happens. But something has got to change. You can keep doing what you are doing, and neither should he. The actions of you both are not going to result in a happy marriage down the road.

[LadyGirl]

i would like to extend judominja's thoughts in a slightly different direction... hope you don't mind.

i agree with what judo is saying, address the behavior and don't let him treat you that way. i would like to suggest that part of this process has nothing to do with things said to him or about him. you commented on how you have changed over time, from independent to codependent, etc. figure out why that changed. what do you do that is different?

a personal experience....

i can't explain why this works but something i've been learning over several yrs (maybe you can learn it faster than me lol). i used to watch dr phil (a long time ago, he's gotten to much like a talk show for me now lol) and he used to say all the time "you teach ppl how to treat you". i always liked that and tucked it away but never "did" anything with it. one day i realized i didn't like how i was being treated. i was allowing myself to be treated poorly. i got upset and decided no more. i wasn't going to put up with it. so every time i was treated in a way i didn't like i was very vocal in saying i wouldn't allow it. but it kept happening anyway. i got more vocal, would get a bit of a short term result but nothing long term. all that happened was i turned into a banshee. then one day i didn't like who i was that way either. decided it wasn't worth it. i got fed up and finally (like i said this was over several yrs learning curve for me) said, if no one else will treat me right i will. and i changed how i treated me. i realized how much i had changed over the yrs, i started to become who i wanted to be, the woman i remembered and liked. i didn't complain when i didn't like how i was treated by others, i just treated me how i felt i deserved to be treated. started taking care of me again. i can't explain why but ppl started treating me differently. and then it hit me "you teach ppl how to treat you...... by how you treat yourself" it's not about what you demand from others, it's what you demand from you. i started looking at others around me. what do i know about how they treat themselves? how is that like how ppl around them treat them? i found a pattern. i can't explain it. i don't know why it works. i can't prove it. you don't have to believe me. i know i lived it. when you are all out of options may want to think on it.

maybe that helps somehow.

Thank you for this. I am often too hard on myself, and too often make jokes about myself as well; people tend to feed off of that. You are absolutely right. This is an excellent point. I never really saw things this way, either. So really, thanks. I definitely need to improve in that area.