Thoughts of Walking out on Marriage


LadyGirl
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I am surprised at how many jump straight to divorce. I think the Lord holds marriage in pretty high esteem and I don't know that any of us can make that suggestion based on what has been said. Having said that, I am recently divorced I can relate. Only the Lord knows when it is time to call it quits. I suggest you go to him often, for support and guidance.

Over the course of the past several months I have learned a great deal about agency. I can't tell you how many hours I wasted trying to encourage. manipulate, force, (you get the idea), my ex-wife to make better decisions. In the end it always led to an argument and nothing good ever came from it.

Whether he acts like it or not, he is an adult and you need to treat him as such. If he chooses not to go to church or to attend the temple you need to respect that decision and NOT make him feel guilty. Making him feel guilty will only lead to more fighting. Ask him to attend with you but tell him you won't be mad if he doesn't go. When he does go thank him, when he doesn't, don't mention it.

Goethe said, "Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is; treat a man as he can and should be, and he will become as he can and should be."

If you continue to treat your husband like a 4 year old, he will remain a 4 year old. But if you treat him and respect him as your husband and a worthy priesthood holder he just may become what you expected when you married him.

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As a communications consultant one of my biggest pet peeves is when people are so willing to tell the entire world what someone has done to them and not even look at the very betrayal they are committing by back stabbing their spouse.

If you're serious about wanting help then, well read on:

1. Stop looking at what he does wrong and make a list of what he does right. If all you ever do is find fault with him then one of you will leave and don't be surprised if it's him.

2. He's not responsible for your salvation. You are. You want to go to all your meetings, then go and stop guilting him and for heaven sakes, stop with the martyr bit. Put your shoulder to the wheel, sister and push yourself along. Maybe just maybe, if you stop picking at him and getting after him (yes if you made me feel guilty so I had to go to church when I didn't want to, I'd sulk too) and if you stop telling yourself an everyone else how perfect you are, he just might show up happily.

3. Not attending every meeting isn't a sin. (holds up her hand for those about to jump on her). We are not Jewish and we do NOT count our steps. It says in the Book of Mormon if you are compelled to do it, it is as if you didn't do it at all. So I ask you, do you want a man that's a puppet that you can bully and chastise into obedience or do you want a man who sees his wife faithfully attending her meetings and still loving and respecting him. I can promise you, that a man who is honoured for the wonderful things he is, only improves while the man who is constantly berated gives up and leaves.

4. Ask the Lord to forgive you for being so uncharitable to the husband He saw fit to provide for you and to give you the strength in your heart to be a better person. Ask him to humble you so you won't be self righteous to the most important person in your life (other than yourself).

5. Get off your high horse. It's not your place to tell a man how to honour his Priesthood. It's not your place to coerce him in anyway concerning church or temple attendance. You want to go, you go but I can promise you, if you keep up the way you've describe--you could make him so rebellious because you've made him feel worthless (and yes you have and I can tell by how you talk to us about him) that he leaves the church completely.

6. You might want to consider what makes a man a bad man to be married to. Things like:

-a man who beats his wife

-a man who uses the church against his wife

-a who stabs his wife in the back with his family and friends.

-a man who tells his wife she's too spiritual

-a man who gets after her for being five minutes late to meetings.

-a man who withholds both physical and emotional affection for months on end from his wife to punish her for not doing what he says.

-a man who commits adultery and/or is addicted to pornography

-a man who emotionally, mentally, spiritually or physically abuses his wife.

-a man who goes behind her back and does illegal things

-a man who is addicted to drugs and alcohol.

-a man who won't help support his family.

-a man who is so narcissistic he manipulates everyone to think he's so great while she looks so bad.

-a man who goes to every last meeting and does service but makes his wife take their children to the ER in the middle of the night alone.

-a man who doesn't believe anything his wife says but only when it suits his purpose

-a man who can't say why he loves his wife except to list all the things she does for him.

-a man who makes her make all the hard decisions, while she works and raises the children and he gets to sit back and claim the glory.

and the list goes on.

If you think I'm harsh, I'm not picking on you. I'm hoping my directness will wake you up. Because you could very well lose the very love of your life because you're too busy finding fault with him. You need to get things into their proper perspective but that's going to be hard with the way you are convincing yourself he's not good enough of a Priesthood holder for you.

Which brings me to my last question...What's really going on here that you would go to such lengths to rationalize leaving a man over his struggle with something like attendance?

You're not telling us the whole ball of wax or you are rationalizing away your own lack of self esteem by picking on him.

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And I'd like to add, that I caution anyone responding to this post that we don't know he's manipulative. He's not here to defend himself.

I've been on forums for a very long time now and studied communications for years and I have one thing to finish up with. If you don't like your circumstance, stop looking to others to fix it, roll up your sleeves and fix yourself first.

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I am surprised at how many jump straight to divorce. I think the Lord holds marriage in pretty high esteem and I don't know that any of us can make that suggestion based on what has been said. Having said that, I am recently divorced I can relate. Only the Lord knows when it is time to call it quits. I suggest you go to him often, for support and guidance.

Over the course of the past several months I have learned a great deal about agency. I can't tell you how many hours I wasted trying to encourage. manipulate, force, (you get the idea), my ex-wife to make better decisions. In the end it always led to an argument and nothing good ever came from it.

Whether he acts like it or not, he is an adult and you need to treat him as such. If he chooses not to go to church or to attend the temple you need to respect that decision and NOT make him feel guilty. Making him feel guilty will only lead to more fighting. Ask him to attend with you but tell him you won't be mad if he doesn't go. When he does go thank him, when he doesn't, don't mention it.

Goethe said, "Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is; treat a man as he can and should be, and he will become as he can and should be."

If you continue to treat your husband like a 4 year old, he will remain a 4 year old. But if you treat him and respect him as your husband and a worthy priesthood holder he just may become what you expected when you married him.

I agree with so much of this post. A year ago my marriage wasn't doing very good. I wasn't very happy. My husband acted a lot like how you describe your husband in your original post. So I went to a psychiatrist, because I've always been very good at taking a look at my life, and fixing what I didnt' like. Here was a problem I couldn't fix. What I learned was a lot more different than I expected. My understanding of agency has grown SO MUCH. My relationship with my husband is so much different now. I won't say the way he acted before was being cause of me, but it is fair to say that I wasn't the kind of wife I wanted to be, and it was mostly because I expected my husband to be his best (not a bad thing!) but the way I pushed him wasn't right.

Maybe you two can go on a 'journey' similar to the way we did. Our relationship now is fantastic, it's just, well I'm very thankful for him and the way he helps me grow (before it felt like him pulling me back), and the only thing that's really changed is our understanding of a few unhealthy ways of thinking. I think we all have ways of thinking that aren't quite right, and sometimes just realizing it is all that is needed to progress. Before this last year, I wasn't a fan of psychologists, but it was a great experience, that didn't take much time, and I don't think it hurt that he was really good at what he did and was LDS.

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Sometimes I have got the feeling these days that those of us qwho are not so happy in marriage WILL one day meet the perfect one for us. Maybe we are not on earth at the same time at all. Maybe our spouse is the one but has some earthly problems taht will dissapear adn he will be the perfect one. Out task is to find a person we can fulfill our earthly wondering together with. We grow by the difficulties we meet. Ofcourse some marriages will be so fine that they may be together for ever, but it is said that those not deserving each other will be given to someone else. And who judges this? Not us! Our task is to get sealed and endure to the end! Ofcourse there are sircumstances where a marriage .. at least the earthly one is too much to ask.... but that is only in severe cases.

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I am surprised at how many jump straight to divorce. I think the Lord holds marriage in pretty high esteem and I don't know that any of us can make that suggestion based on what has been said. Having said that, I am recently divorced I can relate. Only the Lord knows when it is time to call it quits. I suggest you go to him often, for support and guidance.

Over the course of the past several months I have learned a great deal about agency. I can't tell you how many hours I wasted trying to encourage. manipulate, force, (you get the idea), my ex-wife to make better decisions. In the end it always led to an argument and nothing good ever came from it.

Whether he acts like it or not, he is an adult and you need to treat him as such. If he chooses not to go to church or to attend the temple you need to respect that decision and NOT make him feel guilty. Making him feel guilty will only lead to more fighting. Ask him to attend with you but tell him you won't be mad if he doesn't go. When he does go thank him, when he doesn't, don't mention it.

Goethe said, "Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is; treat a man as he can and should be, and he will become as he can and should be."

If you continue to treat your husband like a 4 year old, he will remain a 4 year old. But if you treat him and respect him as your husband and a worthy priesthood holder he just may become what you expected when you married him.

Thank you for your advice. Things to definitely think about.

As a communications consultant one of my biggest pet peeves is when people are so willing to tell the entire world what someone has done to them and not even look at the very betrayal they are committing by back stabbing their spouse.

If you're serious about wanting help then, well read on:

1. Stop looking at what he does wrong and make a list of what he does right. If all you ever do is find fault with him then one of you will leave and don't be surprised if it's him.

2. He's not responsible for your salvation. You are. You want to go to all your meetings, then go and stop guilting him and for heaven sakes, stop with the martyr bit. Put your shoulder to the wheel, sister and push yourself along. Maybe just maybe, if you stop picking at him and getting after him (yes if you made me feel guilty so I had to go to church when I didn't want to, I'd sulk too) and if you stop telling yourself an everyone else how perfect you are, he just might show up happily.

3. Not attending every meeting isn't a sin. (holds up her hand for those about to jump on her). We are not Jewish and we do NOT count our steps. It says in the Book of Mormon if you are compelled to do it, it is as if you didn't do it at all. So I ask you, do you want a man that's a puppet that you can bully and chastise into obedience or do you want a man who sees his wife faithfully attending her meetings and still loving and respecting him. I can promise you, that a man who is honoured for the wonderful things he is, only improves while the man who is constantly berated gives up and leaves.

4. Ask the Lord to forgive you for being so uncharitable to the husband He saw fit to provide for you and to give you the strength in your heart to be a better person. Ask him to humble you so you won't be self righteous to the most important person in your life (other than yourself).

5. Get off your high horse. It's not your place to tell a man how to honour his Priesthood. It's not your place to coerce him in anyway concerning church or temple attendance. You want to go, you go but I can promise you, if you keep up the way you've describe--you could make him so rebellious because you've made him feel worthless (and yes you have and I can tell by how you talk to us about him) that he leaves the church completely.

6. You might want to consider what makes a man a bad man to be married to. Things like:

-a man who beats his wife

-a man who uses the church against his wife

-a who stabs his wife in the back with his family and friends.

-a man who tells his wife she's too spiritual

-a man who gets after her for being five minutes late to meetings.

-a man who withholds both physical and emotional affection for months on end from his wife to punish her for not doing what he says.

-a man who commits adultery and/or is addicted to pornography

-a man who emotionally, mentally, spiritually or physically abuses his wife.

-a man who goes behind her back and does illegal things

-a man who is addicted to drugs and alcohol.

-a man who won't help support his family.

-a man who is so narcissistic he manipulates everyone to think he's so great while she looks so bad.

-a man who goes to every last meeting and does service but makes his wife take their children to the ER in the middle of the night alone.

-a man who doesn't believe anything his wife says but only when it suits his purpose

-a man who can't say why he loves his wife except to list all the things she does for him.

-a man who makes her make all the hard decisions, while she works and raises the children and he gets to sit back and claim the glory.

and the list goes on.

If you think I'm harsh, I'm not picking on you. I'm hoping my directness will wake you up. Because you could very well lose the very love of your life because you're too busy finding fault with him. You need to get things into their proper perspective but that's going to be hard with the way you are convincing yourself he's not good enough of a Priesthood holder for you.

Which brings me to my last question...What's really going on here that you would go to such lengths to rationalize leaving a man over his struggle with something like attendance?

You're not telling us the whole ball of wax or you are rationalizing away your own lack of self esteem by picking on him.

While this definitely stung me when first reading it, it gave me a lot to think about, and to sleep on. I do praise my husband for what he does for our family, but you're right; at the same time, I judge him harshly when he makes a mistake or isn't perfect. I had never noticed this behavior before. All I focused on was how much he hurt me, and how he didn't "measure up" to what I wanted him to be. Now seeing it as you posted, I'm quite disappointed in myself. I'm not exactly perfect either; and the idea of somebody pointing flaws out in my face is a thought I can' t stand (thus the reason I got upset when first reading your post). I've been doing this to my husband...I just haven't noticed it before. This could very much explain why he's recently been biting back. He IS a good man, he's a wonderful man who treats me well. Sure, he'll lose his temper and say stupid things, but haven't we all? I did what you asked a wrote a list of all his good qualities. It left me crying because I was blind to recognizing his good and more focused on his imperfections. I'm way too hard on him.

As for something else I may be hiding, I just don't know where it stems from. About 5 years ago or more, I was engaged to be married to a man who had joined the church when we had first been dating. I had loved him and thought everything was fine, until one day he was gone; about a month before the wedding. Not only that, he stole thousands of dollars from myself and my family, and fled the country. I soon discovered, after he was gone, he had a criminal history, and I wasn't the first of his "victims". He had done this before; even left a woman who had a child of his. This was clearly devastating to me. I've been so certain I've gotten over that since it was so long ago. I'm not holding onto any feelings for the guy, but it's possible part of that fear of my husband becoming a bad man may still be resting with me; I just never realized it. It could have also created me to judge him the way I do, for every mistake he makes. This gave me so much to think about. Thank you very much for being direct with me. It's what I needed to see.

I agree with so much of this post. A year ago my marriage wasn't doing very good. I wasn't very happy. My husband acted a lot like how you describe your husband in your original post. So I went to a psychiatrist, because I've always been very good at taking a look at my life, and fixing what I didnt' like. Here was a problem I couldn't fix. What I learned was a lot more different than I expected. My understanding of agency has grown SO MUCH. My relationship with my husband is so much different now. I won't say the way he acted before was being cause of me, but it is fair to say that I wasn't the kind of wife I wanted to be, and it was mostly because I expected my husband to be his best (not a bad thing!) but the way I pushed him wasn't right.

Maybe you two can go on a 'journey' similar to the way we did. Our relationship now is fantastic, it's just, well I'm very thankful for him and the way he helps me grow (before it felt like him pulling me back), and the only thing that's really changed is our understanding of a few unhealthy ways of thinking. I think we all have ways of thinking that aren't quite right, and sometimes just realizing it is all that is needed to progress. Before this last year, I wasn't a fan of psychologists, but it was a great experience, that didn't take much time, and I don't think it hurt that he was really good at what he did and was LDS.

Thank you, this is great advice. I do often push him to be "perfect", and this hurts us both.

Sometimes I have got the feeling these days that those of us qwho are not so happy in marriage WILL one day meet the perfect one for us. Maybe we are not on earth at the same time at all. Maybe our spouse is the one but has some earthly problems taht will dissapear adn he will be the perfect one. Out task is to find a person we can fulfill our earthly wondering together with. We grow by the difficulties we meet. Ofcourse some marriages will be so fine that they may be together for ever, but it is said that those not deserving each other will be given to someone else. And who judges this? Not us! Our task is to get sealed and endure to the end! Ofcourse there are sircumstances where a marriage .. at least the earthly one is too much to ask.... but that is only in severe cases.

Thank you, you're right. Things could be so much worse. I know we will improve with hard work and endurance. I shouldn't run when things go wrong.
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Ladygirl, you got lots of good perspectives on here. Keep us posted on how it goes. If you get overwhelmed, come back and we'll help you figure it out again. Or, if you want the good stuff (we're just recliner-psychologists-wanna-bes here) check out some marriage counselors.

I'll keep your family in my prayers.

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Lady,

And now we begin. I am so proud of you. You are a righteous woman. When we are open and remain teachable and humble enough to be taught how we can change our lives for the better and repent of our own wrong doing, that is a righteous woman.

Okay so you gave me some very important information and I think there's a lot you can do. It will take some discipline on your part and after everything you just said in your post to me, you've got what it takes.

Before we go on any further, I want you to do something for me. I want you to make a list of all the things that are good about you now. Every little thing. Things like, I smile when I see a bird, or I appreciate and love flowers.

And then, would you post it here please. Let us get to know the really wonderful things about you. And once you've done that, we'll start working on how to express your fears.

Again, I'm so very proud of your courage to consider the things you are being told and equally proud of your ability to change. Bless your heart, you are an amazing person for it.

Edited by Cassiopeia
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I appreciate your help.

I do wonderfully with communicating with animals and have a deep love for them

I have a love of the outdoors and nature

I do my best to be kind to others

I appreciate those who go out of their way to help others

I love making people laugh

I love music and am musically inclined

I treat my parents respectfully

I do my best to be a good example to my younger siblings

I'm compassionate and affectionate

I enjoy being up early to see the sunrise/being outdoors

I do my best to be selfless and help others who need it

I'm quick to respond to a friend in need

I'm a good listener

I'm a wonderful writer

Are those okay?

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I appreciate your help.

I do wonderfully with communicating with animals and have a deep love for them

I have a love of the outdoors and nature

I do my best to be kind to others

I appreciate those who go out of their way to help others

I love making people laugh

I love music and am musically inclined

I treat my parents respectfully

I do my best to be a good example to my younger siblings

I'm compassionate and affectionate

I enjoy being up early to see the sunrise/being outdoors

I do my best to be selfless and help others who need it

I'm quick to respond to a friend in need

I'm a good listener

I'm a wonderful writer

Are those okay?

Of course they are okay and I bet if you think about it some more there's a lot more that's good about you. Tell me about your writing. :)

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Hey Girl!

Almost everything you said sounds EXACTLY like me and my husband. It took me years before my eyes were open to how destructive of a wife I was being. I had always thought I was the "good one" because I faithfully went to church, read the scriptures, went to the temple, did my callings, managed the money, was soo responsible, blah, blah blah!

But I made the same mistakes as you are making, without realizing it, just as you - Freaking out over husband not wanting to go to church or the temple or anything churchy, feeling sorry for myself and like a victim, crying, nagging, pleading, etc for him to step up and be a Priesthood leader. GEEEEEZZZZZ!

I would suggest you read a book called "Fascinating Womanhood" by Helen Andelin. You could buy one off of half.com for like a few dollars at the most. It opened my eyes so much to how men think and the mistakes women make to drive their men away from them. If you were to keep up your current behavior, you would only drive a huge wedge between you and your husband.

Men need to be loved , accepted, and admired for who they are. They need you to focus on their good traits and not push them to change. Not going to church really is not the end of the world. The more you push, the more he will dig in his heels. He told you that he needed you to be sweet to him. He wasn't kidding! How would you like someone being the church police to you? If someone acted the way I did to my husband, I think I would start getting tattoos and drinking and smoking just to show them they couldn't control me.

My husband is very strong willed and can get very nasty towards me when I am nasty. If all you report to a counselor or your friends is this side of him, then you will get faulty advice to leave him or go to counseling, blah, blah blah.

I leave my husband alone about church stuff and other stuff like that now. We are both so much happier. I like him more because I look for the good in him. He likes me more because I have backed off and he is starting to trust me again emotionally. He still doesn't go to church much but he is a good man.

Everytime I go to church and hear the RS encourage women to nag their husbands to go home teaching, go to the Elder's Quorum functions, pay off debts, etc, I just roll my eyes and let it go in one ear and out the other. Men do not need their wives to mother and nag them. The more this happens, the more babyish men act. They act like rebellious teenagers rather than men. Let your man lead himself and he will not act so babyish, and you will not be so unattractive to him.

I could go on and on! I wish I could meet you and talk to you. I have a million things to say, but mainly, READ THAT BOOK AND DON'T GIVE UP HOPE AND LEAVE YOUR POOR HUSBAND ALONE AND I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL BECAUSE I WAS THE SAME AS YOU AND HUGS HUGS HUGS!!!

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Hey Girl!

Almost everything you said sounds EXACTLY like me and my husband. It took me years before my eyes were open to how destructive of a wife I was being. I had always thought I was the "good one" because I faithfully went to church, read the scriptures, went to the temple, did my callings, managed the money, was soo responsible, blah, blah blah!

But I made the same mistakes as you are making, without realizing it, just as you - Freaking out over husband not wanting to go to church or the temple or anything churchy, feeling sorry for myself and like a victim, crying, nagging, pleading, etc for him to step up and be a Priesthood leader. GEEEEEZZZZZ!

I would suggest you read a book called "Fascinating Womanhood" by Helen Andelin. You could buy one off of half.com for like a few dollars at the most. It opened my eyes so much to how men think and the mistakes women make to drive their men away from them. If you were to keep up your current behavior, you would only drive a huge wedge between you and your husband.

Men need to be loved , accepted, and admired for who they are. They need you to focus on their good traits and not push them to change. Not going to church really is not the end of the world. The more you push, the more he will dig in his heels. He told you that he needed you to be sweet to him. He wasn't kidding! How would you like someone being the church police to you? If someone acted the way I did to my husband, I think I would start getting tattoos and drinking and smoking just to show them they couldn't control me.

My husband is very strong willed and can get very nasty towards me when I am nasty. If all you report to a counselor or your friends is this side of him, then you will get faulty advice to leave him or go to counseling, blah, blah blah.

I leave my husband alone about church stuff and other stuff like that now. We are both so much happier. I like him more because I look for the good in him. He likes me more because I have backed off and he is starting to trust me again emotionally. He still doesn't go to church much but he is a good man.

Everytime I go to church and hear the RS encourage women to nag their husbands to go home teaching, go to the Elder's Quorum functions, pay off debts, etc, I just roll my eyes and let it go in one ear and out the other. Men do not need their wives to mother and nag them. The more this happens, the more babyish men act. They act like rebellious teenagers rather than men. Let your man lead himself and he will not act so babyish, and you will not be so unattractive to him.

I could go on and on! I wish I could meet you and talk to you. I have a million things to say, but mainly, READ THAT BOOK AND DON'T GIVE UP HOPE AND LEAVE YOUR POOR HUSBAND ALONE AND I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL BECAUSE I WAS THE SAME AS YOU AND HUGS HUGS HUGS!!!

Thank you for your input and advice! This weekend we were able to go to the temple and it was just wonderful. I took the advice of all and looked at the good qualities in my husband. Some sort of light turned on, and I felt such a love and peace toward him, realizing how blessed I am. I will definitely look into that book.

Of course they are okay and I bet if you think about it some more there's a lot more that's good about you. Tell me about your writing. :)

Thanks! Sorry for the delayed response; quite a busy weekend!

I began writing when I was maybe 8 years old. My parents gave me an old piece of junk computer in DOS, and I was able to access the writing pages. I would type out stories for hours, even if they made no sense or had no ending. Eventually, at that young age, I learned how to type because not knowing was quite frustrating. I don't have the patience to become a writer or write a novel myself, but I just love writing. I'm not exactly perfect at it, but it's a nice escape for me. This is why I also love to read; stories are a good way to get away from the stresses of the world.

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I just thought I'd add another thing into the mix I hadn't mentioned earlier. My husband has told me his feelings regarding this, so I felt it necessary to bring it up.

When my husband and I were first married, I was always the happy wife who treated my husband like a king. 6 months into our marriage, we joyfully began trying for a family. However, months rolled by with no luck whatsoever. Our first year mark hit, followed by the 2nd year mark. I've had several tests, procedures, and lots of money has been spent on treatments and appointments. My husband, this evening, told me he saw me slowly falling downhill as time of infertility rolled by. He admitted I seemed so angry and just didn't know how to find comfort and advice; and feels like my pain has been taken out on him. When I realized this, it surprised me greatly to know that he is right. Now our 3rd year mark of infertility will be coming up this June. I just today found out my sister-in-law is pregnant with her 3rd child (she's very very fertile). I wanted to cry and be upset, but I refrained from doing so, because it's just not fair to do that to my husband...and I have no right to be upset at my sister-in-law. I should be more happy for her.

He admitted I became an angry wife who always took things out on him because I didn't know how else to deal with this pain. He is right. My friends are all fertile; my sister, who sleeps with every man available, has a child, yet seems to not care and act like it's such a burden. But he's right. This is when the angry and nagging wife role popped into place. I hadn't realized it before until he mentioned it today when I had asked him. All I could do at this point was apologize to him, and express my love and appreciation for him.

Anyway, I thought I'd add that in. Might help to have a little more background information.

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I just thought I'd add another thing into the mix I hadn't mentioned earlier. My husband has told me his feelings regarding this, so I felt it necessary to bring it up.

When my husband and I were first married, I was always the happy wife who treated my husband like a king. 6 months into our marriage, we joyfully began trying for a family. However, months rolled by with no luck whatsoever. Our first year mark hit, followed by the 2nd year mark. I've had several tests, procedures, and lots of money has been spent on treatments and appointments. My husband, this evening, told me he saw me slowly falling downhill as time of infertility rolled by. He admitted I seemed so angry and just didn't know how to find comfort and advice; and feels like my pain has been taken out on him. When I realized this, it surprised me greatly to know that he is right. Now our 3rd year mark of infertility will be coming up this June. I just today found out my sister-in-law is pregnant with her 3rd child (she's very very fertile). I wanted to cry and be upset, but I refrained from doing so, because it's just not fair to do that to my husband...and I have no right to be upset at my sister-in-law. I should be more happy for her.

He admitted I became an angry wife who always took things out on him because I didn't know how else to deal with this pain. He is right. My friends are all fertile; my sister, who sleeps with every man available, has a child, yet seems to not care and act like it's such a burden. But he's right. This is when the angry and nagging wife role popped into place. I hadn't realized it before until he mentioned it today when I had asked him. All I could do at this point was apologize to him, and express my love and appreciation for him.

Anyway, I thought I'd add that in. Might help to have a little more background information.

This offers much more insight into why he has been behaving the way he as, and I would like to assure both you and Cassiopeia that I think your husband has been acting manipulatively I did not necessarily mean that this was a horrible thing. That book I suggested for you explains that we all use emotionally manipulative behaviors and strategies to some extent and at certain points in our lives. Such manipulation is also a two way street (the reason I mentioned it would do both of you some good).

From what you've described, you have also used such behavior in your dealings with him. That book will only make you more aware of the behavior, where it stems from, how to deal with it in another, and how to avoid it in yourself.

I think your anger has caused you to become a bit overly controlling with your husband and he has responded with resistance and fear. The fact that you came here for advice, that you were so open and accepting of that advice even when it was hard to hear, and that you've talked about this with your husband and worked with him says a lot about your marriage. You are both good people, and you can grow from this experience. You love each other and you are willing to work with each other to get through this rough emotional time in your lives. Don't let it all fall apart just because things aren't at their best right now.

Perhaps this trial of infertility was what you needed to help you draw closer to your husband.

If you ever find yourself having thoughts of walking out on your marriage again, remember this: I love my husband. My husband loves me. We made a committment to help each other through the bad, and we're both human so bad times are going to happen. But when I let the hurt, anger, fear, and pain go- I see that my husband is still there, waiting for me and supporting me as I strive to work through it all, even when I haven't treated him completely fairly. This is a marriage worth saving.

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Hey Girl!

Almost everything you said sounds EXACTLY like me and my husband. It took me years before my eyes were open to how destructive of a wife I was being. I had always thought I was the "good one" because I faithfully went to church, read the scriptures, went to the temple, did my callings, managed the money, was soo responsible, blah, blah blah!

But I made the same mistakes as you are making, without realizing it, just as you - Freaking out over husband not wanting to go to church or the temple or anything churchy, feeling sorry for myself and like a victim, crying, nagging, pleading, etc for him to step up and be a Priesthood leader. GEEEEEZZZZZ!

I would suggest you read a book called "Fascinating Womanhood" by Helen Andelin. You could buy one off of half.com for like a few dollars at the most. It opened my eyes so much to how men think and the mistakes women make to drive their men away from them. If you were to keep up your current behavior, you would only drive a huge wedge between you and your husband.

Men need to be loved , accepted, and admired for who they are. They need you to focus on their good traits and not push them to change. Not going to church really is not the end of the world. The more you push, the more he will dig in his heels. He told you that he needed you to be sweet to him. He wasn't kidding! How would you like someone being the church police to you? If someone acted the way I did to my husband, I think I would start getting tattoos and drinking and smoking just to show them they couldn't control me.

My husband is very strong willed and can get very nasty towards me when I am nasty. If all you report to a counselor or your friends is this side of him, then you will get faulty advice to leave him or go to counseling, blah, blah blah.

I leave my husband alone about church stuff and other stuff like that now. We are both so much happier. I like him more because I look for the good in him. He likes me more because I have backed off and he is starting to trust me again emotionally. He still doesn't go to church much but he is a good man.

Everytime I go to church and hear the RS encourage women to nag their husbands to go home teaching, go to the Elder's Quorum functions, pay off debts, etc, I just roll my eyes and let it go in one ear and out the other. Men do not need their wives to mother and nag them. The more this happens, the more babyish men act. They act like rebellious teenagers rather than men. Let your man lead himself and he will not act so babyish, and you will not be so unattractive to him.

I could go on and on! I wish I could meet you and talk to you. I have a million things to say, but mainly, READ THAT BOOK AND DON'T GIVE UP HOPE AND LEAVE YOUR POOR HUSBAND ALONE AND I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL BECAUSE I WAS THE SAME AS YOU AND HUGS HUGS HUGS!!!

Hello,

I agree with most of what you say but, Fascinating Womanhood?!?! I remember reading that book as a girl and being disgusted with it!! It seemed to me at the time to really demean women and rob them of their power. I thought it really put them in the traditional role of servitude. I'm curious as to why you feel that book was so helpful. But, it seems to have done a great deal of good for you, which is good to hear... :)

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Hey, everyone. I really would appreciate advice.

Every now and then, I have thoughts of up and leaving my husband. I've even mentioned it a couple of times, but he finds ways to make it seem like everything's okay.

Here's the thing. Since marrying him 3 years ago, I've become LESS active in the church. I feel like every Sunday morning, it's a chore to get him to go to church. He's always full of excuses. Today, he told me going to Priesthood and Sunday School are not important, only Sacrament is important. However, every Sunday he drags slowly along, then goes, "Looks like we might miss Sacrament." There have been times I've just up and gone myself. He'd eventually join, but he'd pout.

He never suggests going to the temple. He has in the past, but of course, excuses come up when it's time. He's never mentioned reading the scriptures together. In fact, I have to be the one to bring up these subjects because he won't. I make the temple appointments. And I kid you not, we almost always get in a fight before attending the temple because he pouts like a child when his excuses don't make me change my mind. I end up praying and crying for comfort so that I can receive the spirit while in the temple; which I do, and our day always gets way better after we've been through a session.

I want him, and I've told him several times, to step it up as a priesthood holder. He works Monday-Friday 7:30am to 4:00pm. He says he just wants Sundays as his days off like his Saturdays. So when he misses church, he plays video games.

About a month ago, I asked him what I needed to do as a wife to help him WANT to go to church more. He told me to not be so pushy, but become sweet and loving. I tried that. Today, I was being very sweet with him, asking him if I could help him with anything, and what I could do for him. Of course, his answer was "nothing, I just don't want to go." Finally I just left because I didn't feel like babying him anymore.

I feel like I've tried everything with this guy. He was born and raised in the church, he's never abused me, he's never called me names, he's never raised his voice at me either. His parents are very active, and he's a good guy; I'm just getting extremely sick of his excuses when it comes to living up his priesthood. I've gone down the sweet nice wife route, and I regret I've been down the not-so-nice route.

One more thing, I apologize for this being long. He has a tendency to "punish" me. Like today. He came to church and attended his meetings, but afterwards, told me he was going to work the rest of the day. This is the one weekend out of the entire year his work MAY need him; he's a programmer, and the system he works for is being updated, so they have to move everything from the old to the new. This is every February. However, they don't need him unless they page him, which they didn't, yet he made it clear he was going to go anyway. He waited until I got home from church (we drove separately), before leaving, so I could watch him leave. Last night I was looking forward to playing a specific video game with him, but he, out of nowhere, began accusing me of pushing the "back" button on the controller, when I didn't, and out of anger, he turned off the game and said he didn't want to play with me. So, he went online and played with friends instead, leaving me sitting there by myself, clearly confused.

I just can't take this. I'm married to a 4 year old. He pouts, throws tantrums, and finds ways to punish me when he doesn't get his way. He knows how important the Gospel is to me, so sometimes he'll use it against me just to punish me. If he's mad or frustrated at me in any way, he'll purposely cancel a temple session or completely REFUSE to attend church; because he knows it would hurt me. And it does. Seriously, we need help before I walk out. I've mentioned counseling, but it's a joke when I bring it up to him.

What am I doing wrong?? I do everything for this man. I love him. I cook the meals, keep the place clean, give him a back rub every time he comes home from work; I let him spend his Saturdays and evenings playing video games. I hardly demand his attention. I let him come home and do whatever he wants. I try and make things fun for him. But the one time I ask anything out of him, I just can't have. And that's him stepping up his Priesthood. I'm exhausted.

My worst fear is someday when we have children; our sons will see his behavior and excuses, and mimic it. Or they'll see him pouting if he doesn't get his way, and they'll copy. Sigh. I'm almost done.

Much has been said, so I will be brief. A few suggestions may be worth considering

1. DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN (yet) until and unless the marriage has been on very solid ground and fully functional for at least 2 more years.

2. Seek some counseling for yourself, gain insight and dimension about your marriage-relationship, your history, his behavior and how that relates to your future.

3. GO to the Temple by yourself. Difficult as it may be to realize, your salvation IS NOT tied to his. Seek to gain a greater and closer relationship with your Heavenly Father so that the Spirit may reveal to you what you should do in order to deal with this difficult situation.

my prayers are with you

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Hey Dove and All,

Fascinating Womanhood, when I first read it, I wanted to puke all over the book and then gouge my eyes out. It is really 50s, old-fashioned, and a lot of people misinterpret it just the way it sounds like you may have, as a life of servitude and demeaning to women.

But if you really, really read the book, there is a ton of useful, eye-opening information. The first 5 or 6 chapters is on how men think and how they tick, and what things push their buttons. Those chapters alone were all shocking to me, because I had no idea how men thought but then it made sense why my husband and I had so many problems with fighting.

So, for example, my husband gets REALLY MAD at me when my facial expression is grumpy. I understand how this can be irritating to someone, but to men, this is a huge deal to them. Who knew? Now couple that with an article I just read saying that according to a scientific study, the most effective way to seduce a man has almost nothing to do with your looks as far as how pretty your face and body are, but how often you smile at them. If a woman smiles at a man 35X an hour, she gets him. CRAZY! I know smiling is appreciated by all people, but men really, really respond a ton to it. I always am working out and trying to keep up my figure, make sure I wear makeup daily and that my hair is cute, buy cute clothes. . .but my husband really mostly just wants a happy expression on my face. Is this demeaning to me? No!

Another thing about the book, I could go on and on, is it is based on Biblical scripture. She explains how feminism has diminished women into thinking that they are better off working outside the home and sharing all chores with their husbands equally, etc. This all sounds good to me. But women in general have lost a lot of their feminity in trying to dress, look, talk, and act like men to be equal. Men and women are different. We are equally valuable, but have different roles and shouldn't try to act like each other. The thing is, though, the more you relax and act like a woman, the more men tend to RESPECT women, treat them kindly, confide in them, feel emotionally close to them, all the things we really want from our husbands, right?

The more you nag, mother, have power struggles over your roles, complain, put down your man, whine, dress and talk like a man, etc, the less natural affection a man has for a woman and the more he turns to alcohol, porn, other women, sports, etc for admiration or stress relief or whatever. This is not to say that all men are awesome if they have a great wife, but in general, if a man feels like his woman admires him and acts like a woman, he tends to naturally, without being nagged or cajoled, want to protect her, provide for her, treat her with tenderness and affection, and turn to her rather than to anything else. This is a general way that men are that most women don't know or understand any more.

Sorry for going on for so long but my marriage has changed in crazy ways since trying this book. I am free to do whatever I want, my husband is more patient with my faults, he tends to want to talk to me a lot more, he confesses things he has done wrong willingly, he comes home earlier from work, he calls me more to talk, he helps more with household work, he takes me on dates, he includes me in his life much more!

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Another quick thing about video games and porn. I think men/women play video games excessively as a stress release and because you get a lot of respect and admiration from the other players if you play enough and are good.

Porn, you get to fantasize that these women think you are soo awesome and they want you so bad, exactly as you are.

Now I think it is easier for people to not get caught up in that crap if they are super comfortable with their wives and feel respected by them. Not saying that cures it all, but men are drawn to people that admire and respect them, even if it is in a virtual world.

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Another quick thing! We went through years of infertility as well!!! Ha ha ha! It sucks sooo bad!

Listen, whenever people told me that stress greatly affects your fertility, I wanted to strangle them. Looking back, I really agree. Marital tension and stress increase your infertility, regardless of why you are infertile. I am not saying that all you need to do is relax, but it does help so much, even coupled with fertility treatments.

I strongly recommend going to an acupuncturist. I know it sounds crazy, but they are really good at looking at your diet, your lifestyle, and all your body systems and fixing you. I was diagnosed with premature ovarian failure/early menopause. No one could fix me in Western medicine. I was desperate and tried acupuncture 4 or 5 times. Wow, my hormones went out of the menopausal range and back to normal. This is something that my fertility specialists told me would not happen. You can email me privately if you want to talk about it. I know your reproductive system is pretty personal.

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