Only marry return missionaries!

[MarginOfError]

Interesting link, Carl62. Read the various views and then read the full interview of D. Michael Quinn. He makes some pretty pointed observations--the content of which probably merits its own thread(s).

Curious what other people think of Quinn. Do faithful LDS just dismiss him as an "anti"--or is there any actual concern about what he says?

--Erik

I love reading Quinn. He has a great way of putting together conflicting ideas in a way that make you question what you thought you always knew without questioning your faith. Well, I guess that's true if you understand academic philosophy.

[bytor2112]

I read Quinn's interview...interesting, but it sounds like he created his own belief system and his own set of rules and still does.

I much preferred Marlin Jensen's interview...

[ErikJohnson]

A mixture. Some of his concerns about the pressures on missionaries, and about the function of LDS history are on-point (though the latter would be more believable if he himself didn't have a bit of a record of utilizing cherry-picked "history" as a tool to grind ideological axes--Same Sex Dynamics Among 19th Century Americans, anyone?).

As a gay male Quinn has a vested interest in embarrassing the LDS leaders he sees as responsible for taking the Church in a conservative direction on that score. So I don't put much stock in his rantings against Elder Packer; and I view his portrayal of the Twelve at various points of history as being little more than a squabbling pack of children, as pretty unreliable.

Hey Just_A_Guy--

Appreciate the answer to my question. And I know we're wandering from the original topic and so I'll have to ask for a little grace here. Did you really mean that part I put in bold? Do you really believe homosexual males have a "vested interest" in embarrassing LDS leaders?

I have to say I'm a little shocked at how adversarial and direct your statement is. As a Christian, I recognize that all sexual relationships outside of marriage (as the Bible defines it--between a man and a woman) are sinful in God's eyes. There's no reason (that I can see) to single out homosexuals for special animosity.

--Erik

[Just_A_Guy]

Erik, the point isn't that Quinn is homosexual per se; it's that he has a vision for the LDS Church that the LDS hierarchy does not share. The natural reaction, for him, is going to be to attempt to alienate the church membership from its leadership. That's the net effect of his interview, and of a decent piece of his writings.

Quinn's "I love the Church but it's not led by very nice people at the moment" meme is a gimmick that apostates have been using since the Kirtland era.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[Mute]

I hope this topic hasn't been beaten to death. I was wondering what people though about the YW's manuals BASICALLY saying "only marry a return missionary" if all YW fallowed this council(which i know they don't) what is a man who joined after his 20's or a man who didn't go on a mission to do? are they left to converts and non members? even with the women who don't fallow the only marry a RM line it seems like they are stigmatized as well. any thoughts?

If someone only wanted to marry a return missionary, that is their choice. I'm not a return missionary. If I were and I knew the person wouldn't be interested in me if I had not gone, then I don't believe I'd honestly be interested in them. I'd rather someone love and appreciate me for what I am today and not for what I have done. People change over time for good or for worse. I'm not a religious person though and I know most LDS want to marry in the temple. That's their choice too and I would not complain if someone didn't want to date me because of it. I can tell you if I were religious, I would not let their faith get in the way of me marrying that person. That's just me though.

[ZSEdwardson]

Well I knew I was crazy to join the church as a single 30 year old male, and this just confirms it. (needless to say, I am a 30 year old male who not a RM, and will not be a RM for a very long time)

You do need to find a good spouse, but RM is far from a good way to make sure you find a good spouse. A Elder who goes on a mission solely so his parents would buy him a car and help with college is not exactly going to be better then a devout convert who enduring to the end and following the commandments.

Then again, if a girl thinks that I am automaticly unworthy since I am not a RM, then I am not going to be wanting to deal with her anyways in dating/marriage, and I hope she gets a good RM, as there is a fair share of bad apples in RM.

[FunkyTown]

Well I knew I was crazy to join the church as a single 30 year old male, and this just confirms it. (needless to say, I am a 30 year old male who not a RM, and will not be a RM for a very long time)

You do need to find a good spouse, but RM is far from a good way to make sure you find a good spouse. A Elder who goes on a mission solely so his parents would buy him a car and help with college is not exactly going to be better then a devout convert who enduring to the end and following the commandments.

Then again, if a girl thinks that I am automaticly unworthy since I am not a RM, then I am not going to be wanting to deal with her anyways in dating/marriage, and I hope she gets a good RM, as there is a fair share of bad apples in RM.

Are you kidding? Being a 30 year old is pure gold for dating in the church. Assuming you don't want an 18 year old girl, you'll do fine. Women outnumber the church something like 6-1 when you get to single post-30s women.

Add to that the fact that a lot of the post-30s guys have serious issues, which is why they haven't married, and you are in GOLD territory. HIGHFIVE!(With serious apologies to the ladies who are single after 30. You know I'm right. )

[Guest mysticmorini]

Are you kidding? Being a 30 year old is pure gold for dating in the church. Assuming you don't want an 18 year old girl, you'll do fine. Women outnumber the church something like 6-1 when you get to single post-30s women.

Add to that the fact that a lot of the post-30s guys have serious issues, which is why they haven't married, and you are in GOLD territory. HIGHFIVE!(With serious apologies to the ladies who are single after 30. You know I'm right. )

unfortunately most women in our church who are single after 30 also usually have issues.

[john doe]

Many women who are single at age 20 also have issues, whether they are in the church or not.

Edited March 25, 2010 by john doe

[Guest mysticmorini]

Many women who are single at age 20 also have issues, whether they are in the church or not.

this is also true. however, specifically for women in our church in their 30's usually there is a reason why they are not already married, few have simply choose to remain single.

[Carl62]

Umm. Most women have issues, period.

[FunkyTown]

Hahah, Carl.

I happen to be dating a wonderful English girl at the moment. I am very lucky. She isn't 18 years old.

She is one of those girls who was really skinny. But I'll tell you something: Women who are hot when they're 18 do not look the same when they're 25. When a really skinny girl hits 25, she becomes hot!

[Suzie]

unfortunately most women in our church who are single after 30 also usually have issues.

What an unfortunate generalization and stereotype! Unless of course you have dated "most" women in the Church....

[Wingnut]

Umm. Most women have issues, period.

So do most men.

And with that, I propose the closing of this thread.

[FunkyTown]

So do most men.

And with that, I propose the closing of this thread.

I have a theory:

Everyone has issues, but it's when they have a whole subscription that it's time to back away.

[beefche]

Yep, ya got me. I'm a single female over 30 who has issues. That's my problem of why I'm not married--my issues. Yay! I finally know my problem!

It's so good to know that married men and women do not have issues and never had. Now, if only I can find a man (with or without issues), get married, then my issues will vanish! Yippee! The Atonement works for married people!

[FunkyTown]

Oh, you know you're awesome, Beefche. If you were a fruit, you would be bananamazing.

[Guest mysticmorini]

its ok to have problems as long as you recognize them and seek to change.

[Dravin]

Yep, ya got me. I'm a single female over 30 who has issues. That's my problem of why I'm not married--my issues. Yay! I finally know my problem!

It's so good to know that married men and women do not have issues and never had. Now, if only I can find a man (with or without issues), get married, then my issues will vanish! Yippee! The Atonement works for married people!

I'm afraid I broke the news of your change of heart to Jose. As soon as he heard he ran out to celebrate:

[Wingnut]

I have a theory:

Everyone has issues, but it's when they have a whole subscription that it's time to back away.

That was my entire point: most women have issues, but so do most men. No one is perfect, and pretty much everyone has something that is undesirable to someone else. Get over it.

(I agree, though...when you lose count, it's time to search elsewhere.)

It's so good to know that married men and women do not have issues and never had. Now, if only I can find a man (with or without issues), get married, then my issues will vanish! Yippee! The Atonement works for married people!

Instantly! I highly recommend it.

[dorave]

Yep, ya got me. I'm a single female over 30 who has issues. That's my problem of why I'm not married--my issues. Yay! I finally know my problem!

It's so good to know that married men and women do not have issues and never had. Now, if only I can find a man (with or without issues), get married, then my issues will vanish! Yippee! The Atonement works for married people!

It's your sacasm that's probably driving men away.

[pam]

And with that..thread is now closed.

It was time to close it anyway.

Edited March 27, 2010 by pam