Military, Missions, & Love

[ttrunninglady]

Growing up, I have always had it in my head that it's crucial to marry an RM. I come from a family of all RMs as well as parents who served as mission president (and wife). I went on this mission with them as well. So naturally, missionary work is a big deal in my family. I know that there are great and wonderful things a mission teaches and can do for a young man, as well as a marriage.

Recently, I've been dating a young man who chose not to serve a mission. He has become very important in my life, and it is becoming hard to imagine him not being in my life. He wasn't necessarily the strongest member in his high school days, and his testimony wasn't a burning one at that point in time. He comes from a strong LDS family, and naturally felt a lot of the social pressure young men in the LDS church face to serve a mission. Instead of serving a mission, he felt that there was a different path for him, and served honorably for four years in the U.S. Army, spending over a year in Iraq. While here, he learned many of the same things a young man learns on a mission--discipline, leadership, trust, faith, friendship, accomplishing and finishing something difficult, and love. He has changed my mind that being an RM is a crucial part of a happy, eternal marriage. This man treats me with more respect than many of the RMs I have dated. He is a worthy priesthood holder, strong leader, and has a testimony in the gospel. The military strengthened his testimony, helping him to rely on God and see the importance of his hand in life.

Though he didn't serve a mission, I think it would be un-Christian to judge him for how he was in high school. He spend his time doing something very honorable, and was an example to many, having many opportunities to share the gospel in the military by his example. He stuck to the standards of the church that he'd been taught.

The qualities he has and his level of respect for me are more important than a title. We are encouraged to seek a mate who has the same goals and seeks temple marriage, and being an RM isn't what should determine this. Though a very great and wonderful thing, sometimes some people have to take other paths to figure out what they want and who they are.

I feel that my parents have issues with me falling in love with someone who isn't an RM, but I strongly feel that there are more important factors to consider when choosing a spouse. They don't come out and blatantly say it, but I feel like it's just something they have expected for so long and missionary work is such a big part of their life that it's hard to imagine me not with someone who has experienced that. Now I'm feeling some of the social pressure put on young women to marry an RM. I love my parents and respect their opinion, but why should someone who is a wonderful, worthy person now be kept from having a strong LDS girl in his life just because he didn't serve a mission? They are good people, so I think they will come around because he makes me happy. But am I wrong in my thinking? I firmly believe that sometimes, you just have to follow your heart, despite what others may think.

-ttrunning

Edited March 4, 2010 by ttrunninglady

[Guest Godless]

There are many good, "righteous" young men in the LDS Church who haven't served missions. I have a hard time believing that they are any less deserving of a temple marriage than an RM simply because of a decision they made. The way I see it, RM's are like every other demographic in LDS culture (and American society in general). There's some winners, and there's some losers.

Also, the fact that your man has served in Iraq and stayed strong in his faith says a great deal about him. Service over there tends to bring out either the best or the worst in people, often the worst. Sounds like you've found yourself a winner.

[Generally_Me]

There are many young men who don't serve missions for various reasons.

Have you both prayed about it?

[Generally_Me]

Oh, and I married a non-RM. Our marriage is as good, or bad, as anyone else's. We have a goal to serve a mission together in our retirement years.

[BenRaines]

I have two ex son in laws who served missions. One physically abused my daughter and the other was a closet alcoholic.

I served a mission, my son did and one of my daughters did.

A mission is not guarantee of sucess. Winners and losers of both kinds.

Ben Raines

[Dravin]

I feel that my parents have issues with me falling in love with someone who isn't an RM, but I strongly feel that there are more important factors to consider when choosing a spouse. They don't come out and blatantly say it, but I feel like it's just something they have expected for so long and missionary work is such a big part of their life that it's hard to imagine me not with someone who has experienced that.

Your parents aren't the ones who are going to marry your future husband, you are. Yes you need to honor your parents, but it is your life, not theirs.

[Just_A_Guy]

Does he appear to take his priesthood seriously? What indicators of this does he give?

If he does, you may well be doing fine.

But I'd be careful about playing the "you're just persecuting him because he's not an RM" card. Love tends to blind us. Maybe your parents are uncomfortable with his non-RM status; but maybe they see something you don't. Sounds like the best thing to do is have a frank conversation with your folks and ask them what their beef really is with this guy.

[annamaureen]

In my opinion, all you need to ask yourself is, "regardless of his past, is this young man currently worthy, righteous, active, an honorable priesthood holder, and able to take me to the temple?" If the answer is yes, I don't see the problem. As others have said, being an RM isn't a guarantee of worthiness.

[volgadon]

What is he like now? That is the only really important issue.

[Traveler]

Growing up, I have always had it in my head that it's crucial to marry an RM. I come from a family of all RMs as well as parents who served as mission president (and wife). I went on this mission with them as well. So naturally, missionary work is a big deal in my family. I know that there are great and wonderful things a mission teaches and can do for a young man, as well as a marriage.

Recently, I've been dating a young man who chose not to serve a mission. He has become very important in my life, and it is becoming hard to imagine him not being in my life. He wasn't necessarily the strongest member in his high school days, and his testimony wasn't a burning one at that point in time. He comes from a strong LDS family, and naturally felt a lot of the social pressure young men in the LDS church face to serve a mission. Instead of serving a mission, he felt that there was a different path for him, and served honorably for four years in the U.S. Army, spending over a year in Iraq. While here, he learned many of the same things a young man learns on a mission--discipline, leadership, trust, faith, friendship, accomplishing and finishing something difficult, and love. He has changed my mind that being an RM is a crucial part of a happy, eternal marriage. This man treats me with more respect than many of the RMs I have dated. He is a worthy priesthood holder, strong leader, and has a testimony in the gospel. The military strengthened his testimony, helping him to rely on God and see the importance of his hand in life.

Though he didn't serve a mission, I think it would be un-Christian to judge him for how he was in high school. He spend his time doing something very honorable, and was an example to many, having many opportunities to share the gospel in the military by his example. He stuck to the standards of the church that he'd been taught.

The qualities he has and his level of respect for me are more important than a title. We are encouraged to seek a mate who has the same goals and seeks temple marriage, and being an RM isn't what should determine this. Though a very great and wonderful thing, sometimes some people have to take other paths to figure out what they want and who they are.

I feel that my parents have issues with me falling in love with someone who isn't an RM, but I strongly feel that there are more important factors to consider when choosing a spouse. They don't come out and blatantly say it, but I feel like it's just something they have expected for so long and missionary work is such a big part of their life that it's hard to imagine me not with someone who has experienced that. Now I'm feeling some of the social pressure put on young women to marry an RM. I love my parents and respect their opinion, but why should someone who is a wonderful, worthy person now be kept from having a strong LDS girl in his life just because he didn't serve a mission? They are good people, so I think they will come around because he makes me happy. But am I wrong in my thinking? I firmly believe that sometimes, you just have to follow your heart, despite what others may think.

-ttrunning

I served a mission and I served in the military. In general I would say the percentage of young men worthy to take a young woman to the temple is much higher from those that serve missions. But there are always exceptions. Life is not so much about where we have been and it is not that much more about where we are and where we are going. It is about the means we employ to get where we are going.

The covenant of marriage is a difficult challenge but it is not really that difficult to determine those that have prepared themselves and honor their covenants. But if you have to ask someone you date if they are worthy and honor their covenants then it is you that is not prepared. I am concerned that you are asking this question on the internet. Something is missing. It is my impression is that you know something that you are leaving out of your post. Above all a missionary doing G-d’s work knows better than to advise anyone to listen to social pressures and would not do so themselves.

The Traveler

[Carl62]

If you have somebody who respects you and treats you like a lady, shows no signs of wanting to cheat on you, has a positive and happy outlook on life, has some education outside of high school, respects his parents and yours, misses church only once every other month, has the drive and desire to hold a job for a lenghty period of time, is worthy enough to hold a temple recommend, isn't verbally or physically abusive and isn't afraid of commitment, then regardless of whether or not he served a mission or was in the military, you shouldn't just walk with him to the temple, you should run. If you truly have somebody who's all of this, I'll guarantee you're probably in the less than 5% range of most women in the U.S. who are either dating, engaged or already married. Strike now while the iron's hot. Good luck.

[ehkape]

I firmly believe that sometimes, you just have to follow your heart, despite what others may think

I would say so too.

Do you want the returned missionary only because because he served a mission. ben there, seen it, done it?

I served a mission 10 years ago and I wouldn't recommend all of the guys I saw there

To me, "RM" says nothing about a persons qualities for a relationship.

Do you want a pristhood holder just for the priesthood? Just because someone holds the priesthood, he doesn't have to be fit for a relationship with you

I could go on with that for ages. What matters is the persons heart! Is he kind, gentle, full of love, does he treat you right, is he fun to be around with etc. I would look for these personal attributes rather than for some "office titles".

BTW, even though I am a RM, was EQP and had other callings people would say my faith in some parts of our church has been weakened over the last years for different reasons.

There have been brothers and sisters at church who asked my wife how on earth she could handle that. She only said: he is still the same husband to me that I married. Same love, same kindness, same respect, same fun, etc. Its not his character that changes, but his testimony of some church doctrines and events. Maybe somthing to keep in mind

[MarginOfError]

If you were my daughter, I'd be frowning that you were considering marrying this man by virtue of the fact that you're 19. It wouldn't matter who the guy was.

The first questions that would come out of my mouth would be about the age differential between this guy and you. How do you reconcile the different phases of your life? What does this mean for your education? How will his plans for the end of his enlistment affect your goals and dreams?

There are some very real concerns that come to mind for me about a girl getting married as young as you are, and so far it's been my experience that most girls that age don't consider them all.

[Jbs2763]

lemme throw in my 2 cents here...

I didn't server a mission..i was inactive out of high school, joined the army got hurt, went and drove a doggone semi after that...

I did alot of stupid things, including getting hooked on cigarettes, and booze..not to mention dabbling in a few other 'party supplies'

almost 4 years ago i saw the light...went back to church, and after a long and not fun process..went thru the temple

I'm currenlty working as a contractor in Iraq, and the church i sjust as true here

so..just cause i was a dumb kid..did stupid things, DIDN'T serve a mission..makes me unworthy to marry? that pisses me off (sorry pam if that word is naughty)...

But NOW I am a worthy preisthood holder... so i see his side of it..and see no problem with it...the past is the past...we have the Miracle of forgivness...

[Seminarysnoozer]

I look at missions as an accelerant. Whatever direction a person is heading it will get them there a lot faster than if they didn't serve the mission. This is why there are various outcomes. I served a mission when I was 22, I thought I was fully mature but was surprised at how much growth took place over 18 months. I know I couldn't have made that much improvement in certain aspects of my development without being placed in that position. I think young non-RM need to be looked at with some question as to their maturity more than I would look at a potential husband of the same age that has served a mission. Of course, every one is different and there are many other ways to mature quickly but in general it allows a young man to mature faster than he would otherwise (and young women for that matter) :)

[Guest mysticmorini]

Does he appear to take his priesthood seriously? What indicators of this does he give?

If he does, you may well be doing fine.

But I'd be careful about playing the "you're just persecuting him because he's not an RM" card. Love tends to blind us. Maybe your parents are uncomfortable with his non-RM status; but maybe they see something you don't. Sounds like the best thing to do is have a frank conversation with your folks and ask them what their beef really is with this guy.

what kind of grudge do you have against non-rms, seems to be a trend of you automatically claiming that they dont honor their priesthood.

[Just_A_Guy]

what kind of grudge do you have against non-rms, seems to be a trend of you automatically claiming that they dont honor their priesthood.

My friend, I did not say that they don't currently honor their priesthood; my position has always been that (for someone who held the priesthood at the time and was not honorably excused) non-missionary service indicates a very strong possibility that, at some point in the (often very recent) past, that individual did not honor his priesthood.

I'm sorry that that sounds harsh. But Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood is what it is. The initiatory ordinances, and the endowment, are what they are.

On a personal level: I've known several females--including some family members--to get wooed by amiable young non-RMs who offered a variety of excuses for not serving. One, whose beau thought a mission just "wasn't for him", wound up pregnant out of wedlock. Another, whose beau claimed an out-and-out revelation that he was supposed to stay home and marry her, married the guy--and had to press charges against him for attempted murder after she discovered his porn habit. Another married the guy, was inactive within the year, and is now divorced with a two-year-old. A forth didn't bother marrying her non-RM; they're shacking up to this day.

So, yeah; I'm probably a little jaded. Every one of these girls justified their decisions with the same kind of arguments I've heard in the (at last count) four parallel threads on this topic. Everyone thinks they're the exception to the rule.

Some of them are. Good for them.

Most of them aren't. And the consequences are lifelong.

And for the third time, I ask: Where do some people get off, insisting that a man's decision to serve a mission is "personal" but that a woman's choice in a husband--a husband, for cripe's sake!--can and should be second-guessed by anyone who thinks she's being "judgmental"? I really can't chalk it up to anything other than misogyny.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[marts1]

There are many young men who don't serve missions for various reasons.

Have you both prayed about it?

Was this answered???

[NeuroTypical]

This man treats me with more respect than many of the RMs I have dated. He is a worthy priesthood holder, strong leader, and has a testimony in the gospel. The military strengthened his testimony, helping him to rely on God and see the importance of his hand in life.

Three words - Go For It. If you both feel the same way when you're 23, grab him and hold on forever. Most people who go on a mission have unique and powerful spiritual experiences that help them throughout their lives. It is a rare thing to have someone go into the military and have something similar happen. He was most likely surrounded by alcohol and swearing and lots and lots of sex - and you say he came out more spiritual than he went in? It's possible to complete a mission, come home, and get sealed in the temple without ever seriously considering if you even believe in God or not. The future is always not set in stone, but you've got a guy who has already passed tests of faith that many people fail at.

You make him sound like an obvious catch. As long as your not overlooking any warning signs, go for it.

I feel that my parents have issues with me falling in love with someone who isn't an RM

True story: My mother was the rebel of her family, and married a drinking smoking gambling swearing man, probably just to spite her parents. It was a major scandal for this established 3rd generation Utah Mormon family, who heeded the first call to zion and immigrated from France, to have such a thing happen. The parents didn't like him, the siblings didn't like him, but everyone tried to get along and things were mostly ok.

Fast forward a quarter century. Their other kids, who all married 'more righteous' men, have been through 3 divorces, an affair or two, and most of them have left the church. That drinking swearing gambler stood by their daughter's side as her health deteriorated with multiple sclerosis, and her mind went with it. In the final years, as taking care of her was more or less a full time job, her parents came to him and offered use of their Caddilac so he could drive himself to Wendover (the closest casino to Salt Lake) for some needed relaxation.

No, I'm not suggesting you go marry someone who drinks and gambles. I'm suggesting that if yur parents are good people, they'll eventually come around, if he's a good guy.

LM

Edited March 4, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[NeuroTypical]

non-missionary service indicates a very strong possibility that, at some point in the (often very recent) past, that individual did not honor his priesthood.

I'm sorry that that sounds harsh. But Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood is what it is. The initiatory ordinances, and the endowment, are what they are.

...

Everyone thinks they're the exception to the rule.

Some of them are. Good for them.

Most of them aren't. And the consequences are lifelong.

I didn't go on a mission, and I think JAG's take on things here are very important to consider. I went from surly teenager to inactive, and stayed inactive for 6 years. My priesthood meant nothing to me during that time, since I had basically told bishops what they wanted to hear when they sat me down to move me up the priesthood chain. I didn't even know what the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood was, until I had come back and been active a few years.

I had a handy excuse which I offered to anyone who pushed me about a mission - my mom was dying, and I had to be there. It was an excuse I didn't believe myself - I didn't go on a mission because I didn't believe any of the teachings of the scriptures or the church. If I had, I would have gone. I have no excuse to offer - I went inactive because I didn't believe. Whenever someone in Sunday School asks for converts to raise their hands, I raise mine. Even though I was born into the church, I don't consider myself having becoming converted and truly joining until I was 26.

Now, a decade or two later, I wish I had gone. I urge young guys who are considering missions to go. JAG says it a bit harshly, but I think he's right - guys who don't go on a mission because they figure they're the exception to the rule, have a critical gap in their understanding of the gospel. Marry them at your risk, because that misunderstanding will eventually become something else. Either a rejection or an acceptance. If you got a coin, flip it.

LM

[JessicaHarper]

Oh, and I married a non-RM. Our marriage is as good, or bad, as anyone else's. We have a goal to serve a mission together in our retirement years.

I was going to mention the possibility of them serving a mission together, once they were married. That would have to be a time of great bonding as a married couple.

[Guest mysticmorini]

JAG: do you have any numbers to show that men who don't go on missions are more likely to go inactive? or is this just your observation?

True; a young woman can use whatever criteria she wants to pick a husband. however she may very well miss out on some wonderful guy. wonder what the "gentile" women do to pick a Good husband? since they dont have the RM litmus test.

[mnn727]

Now I'm feeling some of the social pressure put on young women to marry an RM. I love my parents and respect their opinion, but why should someone who is a wonderful, worthy person now be kept from having a strong LDS girl in his life just because he didn't serve a mission? They are good people, so I think they will come around because he makes me happy. But am I wrong in my thinking? I firmly believe that sometimes, you just have to follow your heart, despite what others may think.

There are many wonderful people who never served a mission. over half the Church are converts and a great many of them were adults when they joined that never had the opportunity to go on a mission. Many young people in High School get lost for a while and don't go

Love, respect, honor, attitude, morality are much more important qualities than serving a mission is. I know a number of RM's I wouldn't want anywhere near my daughter.

Serving a mission is not the 'be all and end all' that many parents think it is.

Ask yourself 2 questions:

Is this the person I want to help raise my children? (this question has many sub questions to it like: do they have the same values I do, will they be the example I want my children to have, etc)

and

Is this a person I want to spend eternity with?

If you can honestly answer yes to those 2 question then go for it.

Edited March 5, 2010 by mnn727

[mnn727]

If you were my daughter, I'd be frowning that you were considering marrying this man by virtue of the fact that you're 19. It wouldn't matter who the guy was.

The first questions that would come out of my mouth would be about the age differential between this guy and you. How do you reconcile the different phases of your life? What does this mean for your education? How will his plans for the end of his enlistment affect your goals and dreams?

There are some very real concerns that come to mind for me about a girl getting married as young as you are, and so far it's been my experience that most girls that age don't consider them all.

Did I miss something here? serving inthe army for 4 years means he's at least 22 and she's 19 - thats 3 years difference. My wife and I have a 6 year difference. 19 is not that young to get maried, especially in the LDS culture and she didn't say she was going to marry him tomorrow.

[Guest]

Food for thought: President Thomas S. Monson did not go on a mission when he was 19-26 because he joined the military when he was 18. He later served a mission with his wife when he was about 32 and his wife was pregnant with their 3rd child. So, his wife married him when he wasn't an RM.

Lesson: Being an RM, although a great accomplishment, is not the end-all be-all of husband qualification. But, what is important is to ask yourself - do I REALLY know this guy?

If so, then 10 years from now, when he has lost his hair and has gained 50 lbs, would you still love him?

20 years from now when he becomes inactive because his testimony got challenged, would you still love him?

And more importantly, at any time from now when you walk down the mall and meet a super duper guy who has great hair, trim body, strong priesthood, intelligent, kind, loving, romantic, with 50 million dollars in his bank account, would you be able to look him in the eye and honestly say, "Wow, you're an awesome guy and all, but my bald, fat, struggling husband is the one for me"?

If all the answers are sincerely YES, then go get married. And at anytime from now until eternity, when you get into your marital fights, then remember your answers to these questions.