Did Glen Beck "step in it?"

[prisonchaplain]

Ram, I'm familiar with Liberation Theology (leftist Catholic social gospel). And, the Pope would be the ideal person to address such a movement. For Glen Beck to do so would be akin to [input your favorite professional anti-Mormon] trying root conservative political activism in your church. No?

[Just_A_Guy]

Just who is this Mormon telling Christians to leave their churches, anyway?

The alternatives, though, would be either a) to stay silent (and if Beck's not going to bring up the issue, than who is?), or b) to suggest that people work within their churches to effect change.

I don't think most Mormons would even dare to suggest b), because we're used to a top-down hierarchical organization. The idea of a grass-roots campaign to change church policy is anathema to us; we congratulate ourselves (perhaps a bit too smugly) on the lack of "politicking" in our church and assume that members of other congregations also seek after that kind of (for lack of a better word) "unity". Beck tells people to "take back" their political party; but I doubt it would ever occur to him to tell people to "take back" their churches because that concept is just so foreign to his own religious experience. As Mormons, we don't bother to attempt to comprehend the power dynamic between a Protestant minister and his congregation--the ways in which the membership can influence the policy. We would be offended at the suggestion that such forces are at work in our own wards and stakes, and assume our Christian brethren would also take umbrage at hints of similar activity in their own congregations.

So, that leaves a). And when has Glenn Beck ever stayed silent about anything?

One other thought: as a libertarian Beck might also be projecting the same sort of worldview we use in the marketplace--if you're dissatisfied with the product you're using, just move on to a competitor's brand. And, again, Mormonism's doctrinal "take-it-or-leave-it" view towards our own church sort of reinforces this view where religion is concerned. Maybe that's part of the uproar--Beck has pretty much compared liberal churches to shampoo that yields unsatisfactory results.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[boyando]

Ram, I'm familiar with Liberation Theology (leftist Catholic social gospel). And, the Pope would be the ideal person to address such a movement. For Glen Beck to do so would be akin to [input your favorite professional anti-Mormon] trying root conservative political activism in your church. No?

P.C.,

You and I have agreed and disagreed on many topics through out the years. And my following comments are not born of anger, but a stern believe that I can find no honesty, in the first five pages of this tread.

You as a moderator, have the right to ban me for what I am about to say, but I wouldn't bother. I have decided a self proclaimed ban is more appropriate. I have ho desire to belong to any group, even a silly political forum, that will not stand up and look truth in the eye.

You know, that the purpose of a Christian Church is to help His children, come into Christ. The purpose of a Islamic Mosque, is to bring people closer to God. And yet you have decided, that it is more important to defend the action of going to Church, regardless of what is said across the pulpit.

These church's of social justice have no more to do with Christianity, than people who would fly planes into a building full of people, have to do with the religion of peace.

So, for me, it will be a longtime before I return to LDS.net. And I am sure that those who will miss me, and those who are glad to see me go, are far out weighed by those who don't care. This is my legacy.

Good by

[prisonchaplain]

P.C.,

You know, that the purpose of a Christian Church is to help His children, come into Christ. The purpose of a Islamic Mosque, is to bring people closer to God. And yet you have decided, that it is more important to defend the action of going to Church, regardless of what is said across the pulpit.

These church's of social justice have no more to do with Christianity, than people who would fly planes into a building full of people, have to do with the religion of peace.

So, for me, it will be a longtime before I return to LDS.net. And I am sure that those who will miss me, and those who are glad to see me go, are far out weighed by those who don't care. This is my legacy.

Good by

What's ironic is that this thread really has not addressed social justice, nor the beliefs of those churches who include it in their mission. Rather, this thread has asked whether a flamboyant radio commentator, who's been public about asking for tolerance and understanding towards his LDS faith, to be the person to lead the charge against a "social justice gospel."

IMHO you anger is based on an over-interpretation of the thread in general. On the other hand, even if I had defended people's right to attend social justice churches unfettered, is such not a basic tenet of your Articles of Faith?

[Moksha]

Rather, this thread has asked whether a flamboyant radio commentator, who's been public about asking for tolerance and understanding towards his LDS faith, to be the person to lead the charge against a "social justice gospel."

On other forums, there have been links to articles by LDS professors and such detailing how Beck's initial assertion about social justice and religion was bogus in the first place. BTW, I know I wouldn't want to be part of any religious group known for its affinity toward social injustice. Good thing Christianity doesn't fit into this category.

[bytor2112]

What's really silly about this thread to me is that those who dislike Beck and who tend to be self described liberals and Democrats REALLY somehow believe that they and their ideology are champions of social justice and conservatives....like Beck are not. What a hoot.....

Edited March 18, 2010 by bytor2112

[rameumptom]

Ram, I'm familiar with Liberation Theology (leftist Catholic social gospel). And, the Pope would be the ideal person to address such a movement. For Glen Beck to do so would be akin to [input your favorite professional anti-Mormon] trying root conservative political activism in your church. No?

It is very different. The Pope is the head of the Catholic Church. Which mortal is in charge of Evangelicals or Protestants? There isn't anyone in charge. So they leave themselves open for such instruction from people on the outside. We just have to realize that it is just one voice, not an authority figure speaking.

The LDS Church has a prophet to guide us. If he were to go out and instruct us on Liberation Theology, we would listen and obey (for the most part). We understand that Glenn Beck, while LDS, is not our prophet, and so take him with a grain of salt.

The point is, there are many Christian Churches that are ruled by Liberation Theology today. And they are using Jesus and the Church as a front for political action. Beck's point, IMNSHO, while stated poorly, is well taken. Christian Churches should focus on salvation and caring for the poor and needy. Their primary use should not be as a PAC. And that is true of both right and left.

[prisonchaplain]

It is very different. The Pope is the head of the Catholic Church. Which mortal is in charge of Evangelicals or Protestants?

I know this was meant to be rhetorical...but there is an answer. Several actually. It's a bit more work, because there is no Pope, not Prophet. However, there are leaders.

1. The President of the National Association of Evangelicals.

2. Prominent leaders, such as Franklin Graham.

3. Key religious media sources, such as Christianity Today.

Also, while we hear so much about the non-denominationals, the majority still do belong to larger fellowships. These have leadership.

There isn't anyone in charge. So they leave themselves open for such instruction from people on the outside. We just have to realize that it is just one voice, not an authority figure speaking.

I don't see this at all. There are plenty of people willing to tell your church members how to vote, and Catholics as well. The presence or lack of a central authoratative leaders seems to have little to do with it.

The point is, there are many Christian Churches that are ruled by Liberation Theology today. And they are using Jesus and the Church as a front for political action.

In the U.S.??? Hardly. Do some churches engage in occasional seasons of political activism (speaking the truth to power?) Well, yes. However, the # or % of those who do so full-time is miniscule. Likewise for conservatives. Some of our churches have "Life Sundays." Others occasionally lobby against casinos or predatory payday lenders in the neighborhoods. Some have gotten active in promoting Intelligent Design, or even Creationism as legitimate public school curriculum. Granted, some of these efforts have been wise, and others less so. However, I definitely would err on the side of letting these churches determine for themselves what issues, and how much energy, they wish to invest.

Personally, I don't recall having to turn in my voter card when I gave my life to Jesus.

Beck's point, IMNSHO, while stated poorly, is well taken. Christian Churches should focus on salvation and caring for the poor and needy. Their primary use should not be as a PAC. And that is true of both right and left.

And that is already predominantly the case. However, if he's going to join the secularists, who says churches must absolutely say nothing about politics, or risk losing tax exemption, I strongly protest. Churches led the charge against slavery. They've been most active in the Pro-Life movement. They've been a restraining influence on gambling.

We already have a sophisticated set of law that tempers church political activism. Most churches are wise in walking the careful line. And, again, most churches engage in social issues on a very intermittent basis. The primary mission remains the Gospel. After all, your missionary work, and on-going instruction of members did not cease during the Prop. 8 campaign, did it? :-)

Edited March 18, 2010 by prisonchaplain

[Moksha]

Social justice and Christianity go part and parcel together. Those who sell themselves to represent the interests of wealth and privilege are not giving the message of Jesus its due. The coins they save through injustice, kept from helping those in need, are also kept from the Lord in need. It is by the good Men do, through social justice, that we fulfill the Great Commandment. The coins these Men seek are not of this realm and are certainly not meant to be hoarded.

[bytebear]

The problem with defining social justice is that it is often cultural and not absolute. In the Muslim world, stoning a woman to death because she was raped is social justice, is it not?

[Moksha]

The problem with defining social justice is that it is often cultural and not absolute. In the Muslim world, stoning a woman to death because she was raped is social justice, is it not?

Yikes, biblical practices!!!

You are right, as a culturally dependent item, it is best to stick with thinking of social justice in terms of Western Civilization of our century.

[Giant_Son]

I can't stand Beck and I don't like it when he is associated my Church.

[Palerider]

I can't stand Beck and I don't like it when he is associated my Church.

I can relate...Beck doesn't bother me that much, however there are a few others who are members and have a voice that bother me way more than Beck does.

[bytor2112]

I can't stand Beck and I don't like it when he is associated my Church.

You mean the Lord's church don't you and aren't you supposed to love Brother Beck?

[HoosierGuy]

Beck is a disgusting hate monger.

[dazed-and-confused]

i thought that was a social commentators job?

[Maya]

I am personally very dissapointed in Beck. At least one could expect a public person like him would keep his cool and at least NOT meke those that are against his ideas feel completely brainless. He is not doing good for Church now when taking SUCH a strong side in a thing that OBVIOSLY does work in many other nations all over the world WITHOUT making the country any more communistic than USA. Funny thing when I moved to Norway I noticed that poeple here think Finland as a commusnistic country... heh... I noticed that Norway is way closer to communism than Finland. It is the way things are run here!

One of the first sighns is the uinity of education. It is good that there is a common instnce that sees that kids get the education they should, but when this kills the possibility of using different metods and wjher teachers have to more or less say the sme things all over the coun try with no individuality....

Anyway my opinion is KEEP the Church and politics from one an other! Until Lord is back looks like we are not able to make a society that is rigious any way.

[bytor2112]

Beck is a disgusting hate monger.

That's brilliant. A disgusting hatemonger.....because you disagree with his views? Have you ever REALLY listened to his views and if you did, can you honestly say that he's a "disgusting hate monger"?

I don't care for Beck, but, a "disgusting hatemonger" is ignorant over the top rhetoric....you probably feel the same way about Rush Limbaugh. What's your take on Keith Olberman and Rachel Madow?

[MarginOfError]

Beck is a disgusting hate monger.

I would prefer to use "clown" in place of "disgusting hate monger." Just like Limbaugh, Olberman, and Madow. These people are entertainers. Their primary job is to get ratings, and subsequently money. You don't earn money in politics by using rational thought, so you're not going to get much of it from their shows.

[Dravin]

Anyway my opinion is KEEP the Church and politics from one an other!

Which isn't an issue here. Beck does not speak for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day saints anymore than Bytor does, and Beck is just as entitled to a political opinion as you or I. The only difference between you expressing a political opinion and Beck is that more people hear Beck than you. In fact I imagine if Beck shared your political opinions you'd not be having issue with his voicing of said opinions*. Not that you are being disingenuous in your lamentation, it's just human nature. If we forget that Beck is just some Mormon guy with an opinion and a microphone we lose a little perspective I think.

Though I do agree that due to circumstances Beck may not be the best messenger for this particular idea (not commenting on the validity of that idea) for the reasons PC explained.

* I imagine if Beck was a left wing LDS political commentator and entertainer that the roles of folks in these discussions (pro vs. against, dude with a microphone vs undesirable reflection on the church) of him would swap like flipping a switch.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Dravin

[Moksha]

I would prefer to use "clown" in place of "disgusting hate monger."

Do you think if he hung out more with Ronald McDonald instead of the Fox group he would be a better person?

[Dravin]

Do you think if he hung out more with Ronald McDonald instead of the Fox group he would be a better person?

No, but he might become a bigger one.

*badum tish*

Edited March 20, 2010 by Dravin

[Palerider]

Do you think if he hung out more with Ronald McDonald instead of the Fox group he would be a better person?

You think he should hang at CNN...oh wait....he did hang at CNN....then he repented....:)

[rameumptom]

He was mild at CNN, and yet too right wing for their tastes. Go figure. He's really unleashed himself at Fox. And as long as he is bringing in huge ratings at 5pm (EST), then they'll let him continue going wild. Ratings = money. And he is getting higher ratings at 5pm than Matthews, Olberman and Maddow do in prime time at MSNBC. I've listened to Olberman, he isn't any better than Beck, just a different wave length. Do you think people in his Church worry about him making their Church look bad? Nope.

[Palerider]

He was mild at CNN, and yet too right wing for their tastes. Go figure. He's really unleashed himself at Fox. And as long as he is bringing in huge ratings at 5pm (EST), then they'll let him continue going wild. Ratings = money. And he is getting higher ratings at 5pm than Matthews, Olberman and Maddow do in prime time at MSNBC. I've listened to Olberman, he isn't any better than Beck, just a different wave length. Do you think people in his Church worry about him making their Church look bad? Nope.

What was worse than all of them was listening to Al Franken when he was on the air. Watching paint dry was more exciting.