Gods?

[questions67]

Hey guys, i need help :/

background: Im 18, planning on attending BYU next year, and going on a mission the year after. I battled with sexual problems for a while in highschool however i realized what i was doing and broke free from these immoral activities. I recently felt the spirit for the first time in quite a while and it hit me like a wall that i was on the right track. Since then i have been trying to learn more and more about the mormon religion however i have a problem. i really dont believe that we can become Gods and have our own kingdom and be rulers and waht not. i believe in the other foundations of the mormon religion however.

What i believe:

-Joseph smith was a prophet

-Book of mormon is true

-God, Jesus, holy ghost all seperate

-3 degrees of glory/heaven

What i dont believe

-Mormons can become Gods and that God was once man just like us. ( i understand the whole cycle effect but i dont really believe it...)

-That a man can be sealed to more than one woman and therefore almost look at poligamy as a divine practice.

-Beliefs about african americans. ( I thought that blacks didnt receive the priesthood until the 70's because of racial tension in society and taht doing so probably would have destroyed the church; however, i asked my bishop about this and he told me that the African American Race has progressed while becoming more mulatto since the beginnings of the church. This really offended me).

As you can see, im in a real big pickle here, im planning out the rest of my life around being mormon but at the asme time i disagree with some of the beliefs..... What do i do in a situation like this. I know i should pray, but i almost am scared i may get an answer i dont want (that the church is not true).

Any advice you can give is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[normaje]

uh, that's weird, obviously a man speaking his opinion and not church doctrine.

and imo you have a lot of growing to do before you consider a mission. I don't think it would be right if you have doubts to even consider teaching others about the church.

[prisonchaplain]

On the other hand...if he's two years away from serving a mission, wouldn't it be better if he wrestled with this questions now, rather than while on the field?

[questions67]

uh, that's weird, obviously a man speaking his opinion and not church doctrine.

and imo you have a lot of growing to do before you consider a mission. I don't think it would be right if you have doubts to even consider teaching others about the church.

i obviously am asking these questions cause i am seeking answers before going on a mission.... Did you read my whole post? I asked i need some help finding asnwer before i commit to going to byu, and ultimately serving a mission...

i agree its not right to go on a mission before fully believing, but i feel like your post almost had a condescending touch to it.

[the Ogre]

. . . I thought that blacks didnt receive the priesthood until the 70's because of racial tension in society and taht doing so probably would have destroyed the church; however, i asked my bishop about this and he told me that the African American Race has progressed while becoming more mulatto since the beginnings of the church. This really offended me . . .

There is no real explanation for the revelation and declaration and one is not necessary.

Ignore whatever you hear about it. Both reasons you list (immature members and racial dilution) are offensive to many people (including me). Some of the other things I have heard explaining the logic behind the declaration are equally offensive. What is more important is that every worthy male can receive the priesthood. That's really all that matters and the great thing is this incredibly dark period in the history of the church is now exactly that: history. All priesthood-related discrimination is history and I'm glad we're done with it and I personally could care less for any explanation as to why it was needed; I'm just glad for it.

So then as intelligent people we are taught to question everything. You said you believe Joseph Smith is a prophet of G-d; well, so was Spencer W. Kimball. It is not necessary to know why JS received revelation other than he did. The same is true of SWK. Disregard rationalization for revelation from the leadership of the church. Accept the revelation. It comes from G-d, and nothing H- says needs explanation.

Edited April 13, 2010 by the Ogre

[questions67]

There is no real explanation for the revelation and declaration and one is not necessary.

Ignore whatever you hear about it. Both reasons you list (immature members and racial dilution) are offensive to many people (including me). Some of the other things I have heard explaining the logic behind the declaration are equally offensive. What is more important is that every worthy male can receive the priesthood. That's really all that matters and the great thing is this incredibly dark period in the history of the church is now exactly that: history. All priesthood-related discrimination is history and I'm glad we're done with it and I personally could care less for any explanation as to why it was needed; I'm just glad for it.

So then as intelligent people we are taught to question everything. You said you believe Joseph Smith is a prophet of G-d; well, so was Spencer W. Kimball. It is not necessary to know why JS received revelation other than he did. The same is true of SWK. Disregard rationalization for revelation from the leadership of the church. Accept the revelation. It comes from G-d, and nothing H- says needs explanation.

i understand and appreciate your advice on african americans and the priesthood. What advice do you have concerning the other questions i am facing? About man becoming a god and the belief that god was a man?

[Moksha]

Genuine faith comes from knowing what you believe and why. These two years can be a time for inquiry and prayer, together with the rest of your life.

[the Ogre]

i understand and appreciate your advice on african americans and the priesthood. What advice do you have concerning the other questions i am facing? About man becoming a god and the belief that god was a man?

Regarding the natural progression of man, you contradict yourself. You said two things you believe: 1) Joseph Smith is a Prophet of G-d and 2) that you believe in the Three Degrees of Glory.

What do you think the third degree of Glory is?

1 Moses 39: For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

Immortality is a long time and there is no way we're gonna be playin' the harp that long (can you imagine the calluses). We will continue to grow and learn and progress eternally in perfection. Part of being a Latter-day Saint is believing that perfection must be improved on and that we will do so, must do so eternally. AS we do so, we become as G-d is and Joseph Smith, through the translation of Moses reveals that this is the actually work, purpose, and glory of G-d. Have you ever wondered why we were created? Was it because G-d loves harp music and wanted the perfect choir? I don't think so. It was love and as the perfect parent, G-d wants us to have what H- has.

And why wouldn't H-? Besides, I'd never make it as a harpist. I'd always be in the back of the giant harp band playing the arm-pit flute.

Edited April 13, 2010 by the Ogre

[Elphaba]

uh, that's weird, obviously a man speaking his opinion and not church doctrine.

Which does not excuse it, as it was highly offensive.

I don't think it would be right if you have doubts to even consider teaching others about the church.

Given that criteria, I suspect a sizable number of missionaries would never make it through the MTC. Yet, they do go on missions, and successful ones at that.

Additionally, questions is trying to address his doubts on a lds board wher people can proide him information and learning that will help him resolve them.

and imo you have a lot of growing to do before you consider a mission.

He said nothing to indicate he needed to grow up. He has honest issues with some Church doctrines, and having doubts does not equate to immaturity.

Facing his doubts, and asking people for help about them is mature behavior--not the opposite,

Elphaba

Edited April 13, 2010 by Elphaba

[prisonchaplain]

I can understand that one raised in a Protestant or Catholic church (myself for example) would struggle with the idea of exaltation-to-Godhood. Not sure why someone immersed in LDS beliefs would, though. Is this not part and parcel of the Plan of Salvation? We destined for more than eternal subservience to God--we're his children--literally!

Your struggle is mine. How on earth? When I first heard of the teaching I was shocked. I'm still not convinced, but I do see the beauty of the teaching. In some ways Joseph Smith "christianized" the New Age concept of the God that is within.

When I went to college--a "liberal" Presbyterian school--the professors actually encouraged us to question our faith. They figured better to struggle and figure it out in a supportative academic environment, where reflection and wise counsel were readily available, than to have a crisis of faith down the road, when those supports were absent. So, again, I say kudos to you for exploring now...and at a site like this.

[Blackmarch]

Hey guys, i need help :/

background: Im 18, planning on attending BYU next year, and going on a mission the year after. I battled with sexual problems for a while in highschool however i realized what i was doing and broke free from these immoral activities. I recently felt the spirit for the first time in quite a while and it hit me like a wall that i was on the right track. Since then i have been trying to learn more and more about the mormon religion however i have a problem. i really dont believe that we can become Gods and have our own kingdom and be rulers and waht not. i believe in the other foundations of the mormon religion however.

What i believe:

-Joseph smith was a prophet

-Book of mormon is true

-God, Jesus, holy ghost all seperate

-3 degrees of glory/heaven

then use that for the moment and study the others out.... What have you found to be true so far?

I only know for sure that God exists, that Christ is is his son and has atoned for us, and that Joseph Smith is their servant. I've felt many other things to be true but none so clearly as that.

However I've foound that man can become like God to be more sensible than the vice versa.

It does not matter to me if a man needs one or more wives. If a man is to have more than one wife God will tell him.

Whether or not African Americans have a curse or not, Christ's Atonement overcomes any such thing if it exists.

As to why the priesthood was withheld from african americans we don't really know. There are plenty of opinions on it however.

What i dont believe

-Mormons can become Gods and that God was once man just like us. ( i understand the whole cycle effect but i dont really believe it...)

-That a man can be sealed to more than one woman and therefore almost look at poligamy as a divine practice.

-Beliefs about african americans. ( I thought that blacks didnt receive the priesthood until the 70's because of racial tension in society and taht doing so probably would have destroyed the church; however, i asked my bishop about this and he told me that the African American Race has progressed while becoming more mulatto since the beginnings of the church. This really offended me).

As you can see, im in a real big pickle here, im planning out the rest of my life around being mormon but at the asme time i disagree with some of the beliefs..... What do i do in a situation like this. I know i should pray, but i almost am scared i may get an answer i dont want (that the church is not true).

Any advice you can give is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

My first bit of advice is one don't sweat over those things too much. Most of them do not affect what Christ has done for us whether or not they are true. And a lot of the conclusions leaders of the Church has come to about them either has been from study or revelation to themselves.

A person's salvation from both physical death and spiritual death does not revolve around Race, marriage, or their potential.

THere also happens to be a lot of opinion on such subjects within the church, and not all of them are accurate to say the least, if you come to someething where you can't find an immediate resounding answer its ok to put the question aside and wait on it.

Let me ask a couple things.

what would you do if you found out that man could become like God? Or could not? How would that affect what Christ has done for us?.

The same Goes with Polygamy.. As well as for the question about african americans.

Also a good question to ask one-self is, what does god mean?

Edited April 13, 2010 by Blackmarch

[Gwen]

this might help with your issues about the priesthood Blacks and the Priesthood | Blacklds.org

i'm not saying this is the answer for everything. personally i see it as a last resort option but sometimes we do have to put things on a shelf so to speak and let god worry about it. watched a movie about emma smith the other night, according to it even she had her times when she had to do that. her daughter was asking her why she ignored the doctrine on plural marriage. she responded with something like, "just because i remain silent on it does not mean i've ignored it."

[Gwen]

don't know if you have ever read "the hiding place" by corrie ten boom, it's been yrs for me. in there someone asked her why god would let so many ppl be hurt in the concentration camps. she didn't have an answer but later she had this memory that allowed her to be at peace with not having the answer....

"And so seated next to my father in the train compartment, I suddenly asked, "Father, what is sexsin?"

He turned to look at me, as he always did when answering a question, but to my surprise he said nothing. At last he stood up, lifted his traveling case off the floor and set it on the floor.

"Will you carry it off the train, Corrie?" he said.

I stood up and tugged at it. It was crammed with the watches and spare parts he had purchased that morning.

"It's too heavy," I said.

"Yes," he said, "and it would be a pretty poor father who would ask his little girl to carry such a load. It's the same way, Corrie, with knowledge. Some knowledge is too heavy for children. When you are older and stronger, you can bear it. For now you must trust me to carry it for you.""

Corrie Ten Boom (The Hiding Place)

[Guest]

Hey guys, i need help :/

background: Im 18, planning on attending BYU next year, and going on a mission the year after. I battled with sexual problems for a while in highschool however i realized what i was doing and broke free from these immoral activities. I recently felt the spirit for the first time in quite a while and it hit me like a wall that i was on the right track. Since then i have been trying to learn more and more about the mormon religion however i have a problem. i really dont believe that we can become Gods and have our own kingdom and be rulers and waht not. i believe in the other foundations of the mormon religion however.

What i believe:

-Joseph smith was a prophet

-Book of mormon is true

-God, Jesus, holy ghost all seperate

-3 degrees of glory/heaven

What i dont believe

-Mormons can become Gods and that God was once man just like us. ( i understand the whole cycle effect but i dont really believe it...)

-That a man can be sealed to more than one woman and therefore almost look at poligamy as a divine practice.

-Beliefs about african americans. ( I thought that blacks didnt receive the priesthood until the 70's because of racial tension in society and taht doing so probably would have destroyed the church; however, i asked my bishop about this and he told me that the African American Race has progressed while becoming more mulatto since the beginnings of the church. This really offended me).

As you can see, im in a real big pickle here, im planning out the rest of my life around being mormon but at the asme time i disagree with some of the beliefs..... What do i do in a situation like this. I know i should pray, but i almost am scared i may get an answer i dont want (that the church is not true).

Any advice you can give is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Hi questions! Welcome to the forum. You know what I love about this forum? You get answers from PrisonChaplain - a chaplain for the Assemblies of God - telling you about the beauty of LDS doctrine. That is one of the most Christian things I can think of for somebody to do. So, I am pretty certain you came to the right place to "air" all your doubts.

I don't have much to help you with - I'm a convert of 8 years now - so I'm learning as I go along as well.

I just want to point out something super obvious - in the statement I highlighted in red above.

You did say you have a testimony of the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith. That is not something you doubt. Correct?

Then, if that's the case, why are you "scared to get an answer you may not like"? The thing is - for you to be convinced that the church is not true, you will have to stub your foot against the big hurdle of the truth of the Book of Mormon. And that is something much bigger than your doubts about eternal progression, polygamy, blacks and priesthood, etc. I would think that your testimony of the divinity of the Book of Mormon would give you courage to seek out the truth in any and all other things from the one source of truth - God himself! For the church to be false, Joseph Smith must have to be a false prophet. For Joseph Smith to be a false prophet, the Book of Mormon cannot be true. Think about that. Would it matter about the doctrine of eternal progression, or of polygamy, or blacks and the priesthood if the Book of Mormon is not true? Nope, it wouldn't. The church is false regardless. Now, whatever you may think of eternal progression, polygamy, blacks and priesthood, if the Book of Mormon is true - wouldn't that mean the Church is True? Yes, it does. So, ask away, my friend. Go on your knees and pray hard about it. That's what you're lacking, I think. All we can do is show you some stuff that could sway your belief of such doctrines but, in the end, you really can't take any of what we say as truth until you've brought it up to God.

If I follow the logic you set out - then it seems to me that it would go like this - 1.) You pray about eternal progression, and you get the answer, "You can't possibly attain the level of godhood in the eternities - never ever." 2.) So, because of this you would believe that the Book of Mormon is not true.

That doesn't make sense to me.

I would think it would go this way - 1.) You pray about eternal progression and you get the answer - Go read the Book of Mormon - there you'll find the answer. 2.) Because you already have a testimony of the truth of the Book of Mormon, you find scriptures like Moses 1:39, see the truth of it, and be able to apply it to your understanding of eternal progression.

Yeah, that makes much more sense to me.

Remember - whoever lacks wisdom, let him ask of God. Whatever answer He gives you, if you sincerely desired for the truth - is your testimony - if it leads you away from the church, then that's where you needed to be.

Edited April 13, 2010 by anatess

[normaje]

ouch! I didn't mean my post to be harsh, but I guess that is how it sounds. I don't claim to know much about anything but I know questioning every little thing leads to disbelief leads to leaving the church. What I meant is he is young and has a lot of growing up to do...and I still don't think anyone should go on a mission if they don't have a strong testimony. IMO.

From what little I have read on this forum is most of it is very deep doctrine...and anyone that is struggling with their testimony needs to go back to square one. Prayer, and scripture study...and time to grow their testimony. If you believe that Joseph Smith is a true prophet than everything falls into place over time. IMO...and feel free to pick apart.

and yes, I agree what his bishop said was ignorant...apparently I didn't relay that well enough.

ETA: I wanted to add, last night I knew my post would be followed by more experienced forum members so I really saw no harm in adding my opinion first.

Edited April 13, 2010 by normaje

[Maya]

Hey guys, i need help :/

What i dont believe

-Mormons can become Gods and that God was once man just like us. ( i understand the whole cycle effect but i dont really believe it...)

-That a man can be sealed to more than one woman and therefore almost look at poligamy as a divine practice.

-Beliefs about african americans. ( I thought that blacks didnt receive the priesthood until the 70's because of racial tension in society and taht doing so probably would have destroyed the church; however, i asked my bishop about this and he told me that the African American Race has progressed while becoming more mulatto since the beginnings of the church. This really offended me).

My suggestion... keep what you believe in and pray about the rest. DONT loose what you already have because of what you dont believe or should I say understand at the moment. Patience is a good virtue, be patient dont demand answers NOW. Allow yourself grow in gospel adn one day you will know what is the truth about your questions. How ever I have studied a bit about these questions and can offer you my IMHO, but I can not make you believe in anything that is only you who can do that.

Bible calls us children of God adn coinheritants with Jesus... How could it be some of us could not become like Father... truth is not all kids become like their father , but some do. We have a dentist whos all 4 sons are... dentists!

Well many in Bible had many wifes and never were scolded for that. It is pretty un understndable for us isnt it. Interesting to get to know how and why someday!

?? UH I never heard that one about the black people before a new expalanation ... I thought we had enough of them already. Truth is NO ONE knows for sure, but it was and now it is gone. My imho is that it did have something to do with the curse Cain once got and that continued after flod in one of Hams wifes. Actually I do not believe that the colour of skin it self had anything to do with the ban, but it just happened that those with African blood are from Caanan, no matter what their skin colour was or is. There were soem whites too with African blood that were not alloswed priesthood. Ands as I heard it did not conclude Australian natives and poeple on the islands there or indian indians... NOT a racial problem!

[rameumptom]

You believe in the important things, the things that will exalt you.

-Mormons can become Gods and that God was once man just like us. Even modern President Hinckley came out and said he doesn't know fully what this means. For me, it means that God is sharing everything with us. He will let us rule and reign under him (see Revelation 1:5-6). We will sit with him on his throne and reign, according to Rev 20. As kings and priests, we will reign under him. We are his children, and we will grow up to be like him - that is all it means to be gods like Father. Of course, this has not been explained in detail to us, so there is a lot of speculation on what it all means.

-That a man can be sealed to more than one woman and therefore almost look at poligamy as a divine practice. In the BoM, Jacob taught that monogamy is the standard, unless God commands otherwise. Don't worry about the details of eternal sealings, as it hasn't been fully explained in detail yet to us.

-Beliefs about african americans. I don't believe the old stuff, either. And the Church is quickly moving away from it. Check out blacklds.org for current information.

[questions67]

Thanks guys, i really appreciate all the replies. I understand now about the african americans and the priesthood, that makes sense. As for plural temple sealings,i think it is one of those things that I will never really understand and it is something that i just have to put my faith in God in. Lastly, concerning eternal progression, i understand the theory that we could rule WITH God like the last poster stated; i guess moreso its hard for me to imagine that God could have been a man at one point. Its all very overwhelming and i dont know the answer, but i do know that i have had a couple signs to stay strong in my beliefs.

I am the youngest of 5 and my father died in an unexpected accident when our family was young. 2 years ago, my mom and I were the only remaining active mormons in my family. Since then, 2 of my older sisters have become active again, 1 of them had been inactive for around 7 years.

This as well as the fact taht i recently felt the spirit so strong at a priesthood meeting that i basically had to bear my testimony of priesthood blessings to the people there or else my heart would have torn out of my chest it was eating so hard haha.

I feel if i was to give up on the church now, it would be ignorant of me to ignore these signs. I guess yesterday i was just having a rough day and i needed to confide in you guys and get your answers. Thank you so much for your support.

[rameumptom]

Questions67, when you consider God being man, consider this. Jesus, as God, came down to earth and to mortality. He was man, just as much as you or me. So, there is precedence.

[Hemidakota]

Hey guys, i need help :/

background: Im 18, planning on attending BYU next year, and going on a mission the year after. I battled with sexual problems for a while in highschool however i realized what i was doing and broke free from these immoral activities. I recently felt the spirit for the first time in quite a while and it hit me like a wall that i was on the right track. Since then i have been trying to learn more and more about the mormon religion however i have a problem. i really dont believe that we can become Gods and have our own kingdom and be rulers and waht not. i believe in the other foundations of the mormon religion however.

What i believe:

-Joseph smith was a prophet

-Book of mormon is true

-God, Jesus, holy ghost all seperate

-3 degrees of glory/heaven

What i dont believe

-Mormons can become Gods and that God was once man just like us. ( i understand the whole cycle effect but i dont really believe it...)

-That a man can be sealed to more than one woman and therefore almost look at poligamy as a divine practice.

-Beliefs about african americans. ( I thought that blacks didnt receive the priesthood until the 70's because of racial tension in society and taht doing so probably would have destroyed the church; however, i asked my bishop about this and he told me that the African American Race has progressed while becoming more mulatto since the beginnings of the church. This really offended me).

As you can see, im in a real big pickle here, im planning out the rest of my life around being mormon but at the asme time i disagree with some of the beliefs..... What do i do in a situation like this. I know i should pray, but i almost am scared i may get an answer i dont want (that the church is not true).

Any advice you can give is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

What would any true believer of Christ do in a situation where there is a conflict of belief?

[Wisc]

Hey guys, i need help :/

background: Im 18, planning on attending BYU next year, and going on a mission the year after. I battled with sexual problems for a while in highschool however i realized what i was doing and broke free from these immoral activities. I recently felt the spirit for the first time in quite a while and it hit me like a wall that i was on the right track. Since then i have been trying to learn more and more about the mormon religion however i have a problem. i really dont believe that we can become Gods and have our own kingdom and be rulers and waht not. i believe in the other foundations of the mormon religion however.

What i believe:

-Joseph smith was a prophet

-Book of mormon is true

-God, Jesus, holy ghost all seperate

-3 degrees of glory/heaven

What i dont believe

-Mormons can become Gods and that God was once man just like us. ( i understand the whole cycle effect but i dont really believe it...)

-That a man can be sealed to more than one woman and therefore almost look at poligamy as a divine practice.

-Beliefs about african americans. ( I thought that blacks didnt receive the priesthood until the 70's because of racial tension in society and taht doing so probably would have destroyed the church; however, i asked my bishop about this and he told me that the African American Race has progressed while becoming more mulatto since the beginnings of the church. This really offended me).

As you can see, im in a real big pickle here, im planning out the rest of my life around being mormon but at the asme time i disagree with some of the beliefs..... What do i do in a situation like this. I know i should pray, but i almost am scared i may get an answer i dont want (that the church is not true).

Any advice you can give is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

As far as I can see you believe in the things that are required in order to be "saved". That stuff you dont believe in has ZERO bearing on weather or not we make it back to God's presence. SO, I'd say you're in pretty good shape friend. No big pickle