I Am Unsure

[Justlooking]

The best way to find out what is right is to read the bible, pray, and ask God to lead you. No one seeking Christ is ever sent away.

John 6:37

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

[Guest funkyfool416]

I think that you should be open to other religions and beliefs. Maybe the reason that you have trouble with that aspect, it was for a reason. Maybe it really isn't true. Just a thought. Just keep an open mind

[dwellingmissy]

i'm lds n have been inactive for 4 nearlly 5 years. my family are very strong inthe church all i no is i'm coming back!!!!!!!! the church of jesus christ is the most organised of all churchs. everyone has a place everyone is at church on sundays for a reason i had a blast growing up with this church being my foundation and i regret slipping away and missing so much. and now while i'm trying to get on the right path and finding christ again i come on here an got support from people i only met this wk online. its not a cult and theres never any pressure from our missionaries either which i think you should enquire about some visits! the elders from our ward have visited us over these 5yrs n they dont teach me direct as i ask them not to but they brought the spirit into my home and just came for dinner left us with a brief spiritual thought and thats it. so i really think u should get the elders round you dont have to sign on the dotted line.... worth a try x

[Christos]

We have had the elders coming round to the house for about two months now and I have been going to the church for most of that time but I decided to leave.

By the way I was just browsing the internet when I came across this picture:

That church is almost identical to the one in my dream.

It is tall, white and I wonder if there are six of those white towers on it.

The fret work on the windows is something I distincly remember as well as the whitness of it and the general shape.

That church is the Mari Girgis Coptic church (of St George) (in Egypt.)

It refers to a news story in October 22 2005.

About Christian persecution:

According to reports from U.S. Copts informants at the St. George Church, since 12:00 PM CMT over 10,000 Muslim protestors have flooded the streets outside the building, trapping inside the church three priests and 70-100 Coptic youth. The protestors, armed with Molotov cocktails and other weapons, brandished copies of the Qur’an and demanded that St. George priest Father Antonious convert to Islam.

Officials deployed approximately 1,000 soldiers from the Egyptian army and seventy armored vehicles to help subdue the mob. Soldiers released tear gas and fired live bullets to disperse the thousands chanting in the streets.

Friday’s protests come after initial street protests one week earlier and the Wednesday stabbing of a Coptic nun by a Muslim student.

It's very sad.

Why does it always seem to be the Muslim community that are so violent

I'll be going to my two other churches tomorrow.

[moroni]

christos,

things never happen instantly. it will take you a while to find what you beleive to be the true church. it all comes when you are ready. pray, study your scriptures, visit alot of diferent churches, and have faith. i belleive that the lord will guide you in the wright path! :)

[Christos]

I had a further dream last night.

I dreamt that I was going to go to an orthodox church.

Where I live the Orthodox community don't yet have a building and so use a town hall.

I went to the church and found that the orthodoc service wasn't on. It was a very lay service which I didn't like.

The orthodox service was taking place in another hall .

About this constant telling of "I know this is the true church", "Pray for the truth", "I know that the book of mormon is true"

This comes to mind.

"dicit ei Pilatus quid est veritas"

From the Gospel according to St John chapter 18 verse 38. (one of the most famous verses)

Then Pilate asked, "What is Truth?"

This is what I believe is the truth:

John 14:6

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[Guest Gilvisto]

And what does that have to do with anything?

Are you saying we are disbelieving or discrediting Christ?

I do not understand what you mean by quoting that particular verse at this time.

You and I believe the same truth. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has all the truth you know already, and we have more... enough to complete the "fulness of the gospel".

We tell you what we know, because we want you to know all the good we know. If this is bothering you, then you are losing contact with the Holy Ghost.

Have you ever read the Screwtape Letters? It's a book by C.S. Lewis... and I think you would find it interesting, and even beneficial.

Don't you see that the reason you are feeling this confusion is not the work of God? His is a house of order... there is no confusion. He is truth, as you said.

Does it not make sense that Satan would try his hardest to discourage you at this time? To me it seems obvious that the devils would conspire against you at this time more than any other.

If you really want to know what church to join, do what Joseph Smith did. That's not a Mormon doctrine, to pray for answers... that's standard Christianity.

James 1: 5-6. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith... NOTHING WAVERING, for he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea, driven with the wind and tossed.

(emphasis added)

Sorry if I didn't quote that perfectly, I think that's right though (Scripture Masteries, gotta love 'em)

You seem to be tired of people asking you to pray about it, but that is all we can do. We cannot force a testimony on you. We cannot force you to join our church, and we won't prove our gospel to you. You must let God do it. And if you are sincerly seeking the truth, you'll find it.

-Val out

[Christos]

I did not post that verse as offence towards the LDS church.

I hold no hatred towards the LDS church and actually hold respect towards it.

But I am still young and still on a what is now four year search for the right church for me.

I feel that this week I shall go to a Greek Orthodox church. This is after many dreams which have guided me towards one particular church.

Remember, the Greek Orthodox church is unlike the other protestant churches, it is not a branch off the church established by St Peter (Roman Catholicism). It was founded by Jesus Christ and was spread through the greek empire by such men as Paul.

I've never read the screwtape letters, nor anything else of C.S. Lewis.

To be honest I have read very little apart from the books in the bible.

At the age when others were reading Tolkein and Pullman I was reading Genesis and Exodus

This I know will be a long search and a worth while one. One which I will never regret.

So far I have tried:

Church of England

Methodist

Free Methodist

Calvary Fellowship

Baptist

Latter Day Saints

In my area there are only three other churches available (excluding homechurches)

Roman Catholic

Greek Orthodox

Quaker fellowship of Friends

I won't go to a Roman Catholic church because I believe the doctrine to have been twisted and distorted to modern values and politics. Also I believe in the confession of sins as a personal act between you and Jesus, no need for a Priest or Virgin Mary to act as mediator.

[Guest Gilvisto]

If that is your final decision, then may God aid you on your quest. Be sensitive to the Spirit... you won't go wrong...

I hope you will not be counted as a "scorched seed" (surely you are familiar with that parable, no? NT... towards the end of Matthew, if I remember right).

Best wishes towards you,

-Val

[Jason]

Christos,

There's a saying in certain circles: "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

You're doing fine.

[Christos]

I believe I have found the right church for me.

It is a (Greek) Orthodox church.

I simply loved the Divine Liturgy and the feeling of the place.

Though it was done in a community hall I still felt it was amazing.

Never before have I felt so close to the spiritual side.

God was truely there.

I only felt a bit awkward whenever "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" was mentioned because everybody crossed themselves and as I was brought up protestant I have never done this before.

I will be going again next week.

The original church, founded AD33.

Not a branch off Roman Catholicism or Protestantism.

[begood2]

I believe I have found the right church for me.

It is a (Greek) Orthodox church.

I simply loved the Divine Liturgy and the feeling of the place.

Though it was done in a community hall I still felt it was amazing.

Never before have I felt so close to the spiritual side.

God was truly there.

I only felt a bit awkward whenever "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" was mentioned because everybody crossed themselves and as I was brought up protestant I have never done this before.

I will be going again next week.

The original church, founded AD33.

Not a branch off Roman Catholicism or Protestantism.

Christos,

Jason is a member of LDS Talk and he very seriously considered going to seminary school in th Greek Orthodox Church. I'm sure if you talked to him...he could give you some great information about that church.

[Christos]

Thanks, I do feel I have finally found the right church for me.

This is after a long four years search.

I feel that a thirst that I have had for so long is beng fulfilled now. A thirst for knowledge, truth and wisdom.

[Jason]

<div class='quotemain'>

I believe I have found the right church for me.

It is a (Greek) Orthodox church.

I simply loved the Divine Liturgy and the feeling of the place.

Though it was done in a community hall I still felt it was amazing.

Never before have I felt so close to the spiritual side.

God was truly there.

I only felt a bit awkward whenever "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" was mentioned because everybody crossed themselves and as I was brought up protestant I have never done this before.

I will be going again next week.

The original church, founded AD33.

Not a branch off Roman Catholicism or Protestantism.

Christos,

Jason is a member of LDS Talk and he very seriously considered going to seminary school in th Greek Orthodox Church. I'm sure if you talked to him...he could give you some great information about that church.

Very true. I was nearly signed up before I walked away.

Christos,

As a former Latter-day Saint and former Eastern Orthodox (Antiochian) I can tell you that both religions are pretty equal all things considered.

Mormonism derives it's theology from a combination of Christianity and Western Mysticism. And although they're leaning more and more now-a-days towards a more mainstream Protestantism, they've still got a lot of the early doctrines that make them unique and tie them in with the entire Western religious world.

Eastern Orthodoxy shares the title as being the oldest Christian church on earth. It shares the honor of antiquity with the Roman Catholic, Coptic, and Nestorian churches (not to mention all the Gnostic sects). It's Divine Liturgy was fully developed by the late 4th century by Sts. Basil and John Chrysostom. This liturgical service was based on earlier versions possibly as far back as the 2nd century. And while you will be hard pressed to find an Orthodox theologian who will admit it, it too derives from the Western Mystic tradition to a degree. (And to be fair, so does Jewish Temple worship, but I digress.)

As for which is better, that's a tough question. Both have their pro's and con's. On the bad side, both claim an exclusive path back to God, exclusive Priesthood authority, baptism, confirmation, and dogmatic theology. On the good side, you get to experience a mystic ritual either in the Divine Liturgy service or in the Endowment ceremony. Both churches have an egregore which will make you feel right at home after your spirit has a chance to join with that egregore. For the LDS church, you'll get a warm, burning sensation in your chest that let's you know you're protected by the egregore. For the Orthodox, you'll get a strong, deep, reverent sensation whenever you pray or enter an Orthodox temple or monastery.

Both good paths generally...I hope you find a good spiritual home either way.

Jason

[Christos]

I'm not sure that the LDS church can so closely be compared to the Orthodox community.

When I was in the LDS church I was awed with the perfection of the temple and the temple grounds, the niceness of the people and beauty of everything but beauty of course is earthly. Whether it is a reflection of the glory of God or an attempt for man to rise above man is something I would NOT like to discuss here.

I always got the impression when I was in the LDS church that I should feel warm inside, and know what the truth was , I never did and I felt that if I did it would be a self convincement. Would it be "The truth" or "my truth"?

With the Orthodox community there was no question about truth. Though the liturgy was lengthy (I stayed for the full 2 1/2 hours) I felt convicted of my sins. I felt that I was in a greater prescence.

I sometimes get that feeling at excellent churches.

When I go to university (which will probably be in Northern Scotland) there are no Orthodox churches near that place. Orthodoxy hasn't caught on well in England and the one in my town is in a community hall, not a church building.

Both good paths generally...I hope you find a good spiritual home either way.

I am non denominational Christian.

I have no need to commit myself to a denomination of Christianity.

This means that I can (and I do) float round churches of different denominations, at the moment I am going to a Church of England, Free Methodist and Orthodox all at the same time.

My spiritual home is in that of Christ.

[Guest Gilvisto]

Christos, you should know that there is "one faith, and one church, and one baptism"

Ephesians 6 (I think... could be Ephesians 4)

In any case, Christianity is meant to have one denomination.

Val out

[Christos]

Ephisians 4:4-6

KJV

4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Yes there is one God only, one baptism only and one faith only.

It is a wonderful verse of Christian unity and was written above the organ alcove in a baptist church I used to go to. (they didn't have an organ though)

[Jason]

In any case, Christianity is meant to have one denomination.

Interstingly enough, there's no evidence to suggest that there ever was just one single "church" of Jesus. Historians are now saying that each Apostle taught differently, used different rituals, and differed on doctrines. Which is why there was never a unified Church at any time in history.

I'm not sure that the LDS church can so closely be compared to the Orthodox community.

I disagree. Both faiths stem from the earliest versions of Christianity. The Orthodox are a continuously existing line of Christianity, whereas Mormonism borrows from both traditional Christianity and the Gnostic communities that existed side by side for the first seven centuries after Christ.

The whole theory of a unified church under the apostles of Jesus is nothing more than a myth.

[Christos]

The Orthodox Church was founded on the Day of Holy Pentecost in Jerusalem in 33 AD, fifty days after the Holy Resurrection of Jesus Christ our true God. It has preserved the original teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles form that time until the present. The first major Bishops of the Church (known as Patriarchs) have remained Orthodox up to the present. They are the Patriarchs of Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople. Later onwards other Patriarchs also began to develop within the Orthodox Church: Russia, Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, and Albanian.

Quote from:

It appears that the Orthodox church is the original church.

[Ray]

I think it also helps to realize that none of our problems are totally new, in that other people have pretty much experienced the same problems that we experience in our own lives, which is why it is helpful to learn from others who got through and solved those problems.

For instance, if you have some ideas which lead you to believe that the Apostasy did NOT happen, read from others who believe the Apostasy DID happen to see how they explain those ideas, while looking for all other ideas you can find to help you understand and explain those ideas to others.

And btw, when you state that you believe that something did NOT happen, you should be prepared to explain why you beleive that to someone who believes it DID, while looking for any other ideas which can help you understand that issue.

For instance, I know that the Apostasy DID happen, and I am fully capable of explaining my beliefs to others, but instead of suggesting that you believe what I have to say about it, I will recommend that you read from the writings of the apostles and prophets of our Lord, while praying to God Himself so that you can get the best information from the best sources available.

[Christos]

Alright then

As you may know it is the Apostacy that I cannot accept.

I cannot believe that God would send his only son, the perfect sacrafice to earth to die for all of Mankind just to leave us again and for 1800 years.

That is a lot of souls going to Hell for cimes they did not know that they commit.

Surely you only sin if you go against Gods commandment?

If you do not know of something you cannot be sinful for it.

It is called ignorance and it is bliss.

I am going to ask you now for verses from the Bible for proof of the apostacy.

As a non LDS member I only accept the Bible, the Apocrypha and St Thomas' recording of the Gospel as scripture.

Why would an Apostacy be needed?

How have we benefitted from the Apostacy?

Just two questions to start with.

And I don't want flimsy answers like:

Question 1: "The Apostles were killed off. It took 1800 years for our next prophet Joseph Smith."

I would like to know why 1800 years. Why Joseph Smith and not someone from Paris for example?

[Amphiblitz]

As you may know it is the Apostacy that I cannot accept.

I cannot believe that God would send his only son, the perfect sacrafice to earth to die for all of Mankind just to leave us again and for 1800 years.

That is a lot of souls going to Hell for cimes they did not know that they commit.

Kinda sounds like it's that last part I quoted (and bolded) that you can't accept. Luckily, that's not part of Christ's Gospel.

Christ's Gospel is perfect. Keep studying, pondering, and praying. Everything will make sense as you get more pieces of the puzzle and put them together.

I was surprised to see you again, Christos. When I read your post about chosing Greek Orthodoxy, it sounded like a "farewell" to me. Not that I blame you. This Mormon bug can be a tough one to kick for some reason

[Christos]

I cannot believe that God would send his only son, the perfect sacrafice to earth to die for all of Mankind just to leave us again and for 1800 years.

Is the bit I can't accept.

I know that you cannot be sinful for what you do not know.

Why God would leave his creation for so long.

Yes I do go to an Orthodox church but I am non-denominational.

I haven't and probably won't accept any denomination.

As for kicking out the Mormon bug , yeah I could do that but how would it benefit me?

I find it interesting to talk to you guys on the internet but in real life it is quite an annoyance.

The missionaries come round and I don't want them to. Unlike a website I can't just close them.....well I could but apparently murder is illegal .

[Jason]

The Orthodox Church was founded on the Day of Holy Pentecost in Jerusalem in 33 AD, fifty days after the Holy Resurrection of Jesus Christ our true God. It has preserved the original teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles form that time until the present. The first major Bishops of the Church (known as Patriarchs) have remained Orthodox up to the present. They are the Patriarchs of Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople. Later onwards other Patriarchs also began to develop within the Orthodox Church: Russia, Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, and Albanian.

Quote from:

It appears that the Orthodox church is the original church.

That's like saying that blue is the only color of a rainbow.

The claim to original succession can be proven historically by the Roman Catholic, Coptic, and Nestorian churches, as well as the Anglican communion.

I suggest you study the Ante-Nicene Fathers and learn just how diverse the Church's beliefs were. Even the Church Fathers disagreed on what was "true".

[Christos]

I starting to hate this idea of searching for truth.

Truth does not exist.

Truth does not exist.

The triangle of truth.

Knowledge-Acceptence-Truth

You see, one persons truth is not equal to anothers, it is simply what that person knows and has accepted, therefore he thinks of it as infalliable therefore true.

I think you will find that most churches understand their roots.

As a former Church of England member (Protestant) I knew that the religion I was affiliated to is post reformation, effectively a branch off from Catholicism.

Catholics also know that after some council meeting they too left Orthodoxy.

I said that it was the original church, not the true church.

The true church is the Christian community, those who accept Christ as their saviour.

It doesn't matter what race you are, how clever you are, if you are subject to a dissability everyone has an equal chance.

I'm not going to study any literature written by Man for a while now.

I can find everything I need in the compilation that is the bible. This idea that the bible was altered to fit politics etc is a bit farfetched, there are many translations direct from the Hebrew and Greek texts as well as books which were never introduced which simply back up the accuracy of the Bible.

The Gospel according to St Thomas supports the other recordings of the Gospel as well as giving a more indepth view of the Gospel from the disciples point of view.