My Court Experience Yesterday with the Ex... enough drama to write a book

[MisterT]

Hey Chet, ditto on looking all over the house and being reminded of what used to be. It hurt so bad I packed the bare essentials, gave everything else away, what I couldn't give away I threw in a dumpster, and moved 600 miles away (she'd moved about 550 miles at that point, so I figured "what the heck does another few hundred miles make?").

I've said it before and I'll say it again; divorce is a terrible terrible thing. Take two formerly loving people, give them swords, tridents, nets, and shields, and let them battle it out in the Colosseum; it'd be more humane than divorce court. And we'd treat each other better too...

[its_Chet]

Thanks Mr. T. You put it much more succinctly than I was able to.

Coincidentally, when I finally got the idea to pack up her clothes that were in the closet, I noticed that every time I went in there afterwards, I felt noticably better. "Living with ghosts" was harder than I realized.

[MisterT]

When my ex-wife left (it still feels weird to say ex-wife - I want to say 'wife' every time) she took all kinds of weird things with her... She took a Japanese rice steamer, mixers and food processors, plates and bowls - but left the silverwear; she also left most of her clothes.

I finally gave them to the sister of an employee; wouldn't you know, though, a week later she shows up with the cops unannounced, forces her way into the house, then wants to have me arrested for getting rid of her clothes; meanwhile I was tasered and handcuffed and gettin' aggressive because of their entry, and finally they left after I stated the obvious... "How do you know I don't wear women's clothes in private, and therefore the stuff I gave away may have been mine..." Of course, I don't wear womens clothing, in public or private, but I think it got them thinking they didn't want to be in my house one minute longer with such a weirdo. Well, it got them out at least. I did save a little of her more.. prized clothing, and delivered it to her when I visited my kids for my at that time 8 year old's babtism.

Love your avatar by the way; I've always wanted a ushanka like that.

[Guest mirancs8]

With the documentation you have, why do you not have a restraining order in place against him? Just curious and want you safe.

Hi FairChild. Actually I did have one which he took me to court and lied his way into getting it overturned. I put in for another one this past week and we came to an agreement to document the rules and if he doesn't follow the rules I will for sure put a protection order back into place.

[Guest mirancs8]

This is great advice. I think that is why even though you didnt feel like praying or reading your scriptures, you MUST press on! You NEED that strength (llike you said how you were able to compose yourself in the attempt to show how put together YOU are and how FREAKING CRAZY he is).

My heart goes out to you. It also makes me scared because my first court date is coming up on the 17th and I am not sure what to expect.

I have a question for you about your recordings:

I have been recording my conversations with my spouse for some time now. What is the most effective way to use these recordings? a trascription? I am just not sure how I can make them useful.

I cannot believe he wanted to have dinner with you. And what I REALLY cant believe it that you went (even though I think it was a smart move in order to get information from him). I cant imagine that. How could you even have an appetite in a meeting like that one?

I am sooo soo sorry about how court went but I really and truly believe that eventually...and you must be patient...that the visitation thing will get ironed out so that your kids will be more stable and you will get what you really want. CLEARLY he cant handle it. Clearly he will be unable to take care of the children for an entire week with all their school stuff etc. He will be a frazzled mess. The Court will not let him get away with paying less child support when you will be the one eventually caring for the children.

Be strong and keep up your faith. I know you got kicked down a bit but get yourself back up! You can do it!

Hi Braver! First I wish you lots of luck with your court date. Boy they are not fun at all. Each time I have to go to court I feel such unease. I hate the thought that I am in this position right now. That I am sitting in a court room with someone I spent all these years giving myself to and having children with him. To have all those years just crumble into nothing... everything you invested of yourself flushed down the toilet. I think the worst for me was sitting there knowing that he swore to tell the truth and nothing but the truth... YET only lies came out of his mouth. I was floored!

I am trying to be patient about this custody stuff. I feel so badly for the boys especially the older one who really hates this schedule. We have to go through this 2 - 3 month custody evaluation which I hope and pray will help the courts to see what is truly in the best interest for the children.

Thank you for all your kind words and advice! I am keeping strong and have never felt as good as I feel these days. With each day I am become more and more my old self you use to love life.

[MisterT]

I'm very glad that you're comforted and feeling good about things. But remember to unburden yourself regularly, because if it builds up, it'll kill you inside, then you'll miss out on so many of the little joys that life has to offer. Believe me, I know

[Guest mirancs8]

Thanks for responding Mirancs8

Let me just start by saying, and please don't take this the wrong way, I like your avatar. It really says what I can tell you've been feeling, and I can guarantee you it says what I've been feeling, sitting all alone in this house where my wife and children once lived, where their things are still plainly visible in every room, and every room stirs memories that were once pleasant but now are more like knives in my heart. When it gets too much, when fleeing from one room to escape that torture only finds me facing a similar torture in another room, I end up with my forehead buried in my knees, just like that.

Thank you its_chet! Yes my avatar represents how I feel. Though I tend to see my avatar as me being the cautious person that I am. That I enjoy those rare times that I can be alone to reflect on my life and where I am heading. I find my greatest moments to reflect those times that I spend it alone crouched in a corner. Yeah you'll never see my avatar with someone doing jump rope or something like that . That wouldn't reflect the real me. Fortunately the house I am in he was only here for a few months so not many memories in this house. BUT he does have all his stuff that he has yet to pickup in the garage. Giving him 30 days via our lawyers then I'll have a garage sell and get rid of it all.

I have lost the only woman I ever had children with, lived with, shared my heart, body, and soul with. That is lost forever, and in July it will become official. We will face each other in court, and she has already made it clear she is going to fight dirty and ruthlessly.

I feel so badly for you. I do hope and pray that you will find someone who loves you and you can spend eternity with. You still have so much ahead of you and a new life that will be full of blessings. You did everything you could and HF knows that. Soon you will be able find that soul mate who will fill your home with love and passion together with you.

You asked: "would a normal woman find that kind of sentimentality to be weak and worthy of contempt? If so, could she be persuaded to look at it as more of a mark of courage and strength?"

This is a complicated thing that is hard to describe but I am going to attempt it. Remember each situation is so unique as each person is unique. Let me use an example from my own situation giving it from the view of a woman. For years I did everything to keep the marriage together. I never gave up. I fought for the marriage with every ounce of my energy. Year after year he would sincerely say he was going to change or start stepping up to the plate more to take on responsibilities. Unfortunately in a matter of days that all was dust in the wind. Nothing stuck with him. He would quickly revert back to his old ways. Years and years of working at it and false promises that never would stick took a tole on me. I reached a point of no return. Something in my mind just clicked. I knew something wasn't right. How was it that I was doing all this yet he was unchanged with no desire to grow the relationship. No matter what he said or did I was no longer convinced he would ever follow through. My mental divorce from him started. It was a long process but it needed to be done. In the past 2 years he tried all his past tactics to get me back but now I was not falling for it. I didn't care any more. I know this sounds so harsh but it's the truth. All the times I believed deep within my heart that he was sincere about being a better husband and father he failed us. So why now was I to believe he would change. I knew deep down he wouldn't.

So this would give you the mind set I was in... all hope was gone. So now with each time my ex would get all emotional or make threats against his life and our lives it just went in one ear and out the other. It's sad to say but I had it. I was done with his continuous lies. Deep down he was very dependent on me and I think his reasons for holding on to me were solely based on that... how would be live without me holding everything together. Each time he reached out pleading for this and that I thought to myself... move on and get on with your life. Yes it made him look desperate. Now when you both love each other and you have an argument or something sure I see it as a "mark of courage and strength" that he loves me that much that he would do ANYTHING for me. That he passionately loves me the way that I do. But when there is nothing left of the marriage well none of those words mean much considering he said them 100s of times before and nothing changed. I believe actions speak louder than words. I need to see him putting into action all the things that he says he's going to do.

It takes a lot of strength to live through what I have lived through, when you feel as emotionally damaged as I have been. Honestly, if it weren't for my friend the amateur shrink, I'd have taken the long drive to nowhere just to end the pain several months ago. I guess that just sounds even weaker, but the way I see it, you should love your spouse so much that if they did to you what mine did to me, it would affect you just as intensely. At least that's my humble opinion. I know this much, that kind of devotion kept my marriage together for a long time, and apparently it was the only thing that did. It may have been a bad marriage, but at least I know I didn't fail it. When this is over I will have no regrets.

Yes it take a great amount of strength to live through all that you did. Remember that it's OK to feel weaker among friends and loved ones but I don't want you to set yourself up to be hurt more then you have been by her. You have to find a way to put up a protective wall to defuse the damage coming your way. We should all give everything of ourselves to make our marriages work. We shouldn't just simply give up but there is a point when some of us reach a point of no return. When all else has failed and the only option is for each of you to go your own way.

So I just have to ask, wouldn't a normal woman appreciate that kind of devotion? See, I'm a codependent, and I know it, and I try to control it, but I've also accepted that there's a certain level of "clingy-ness" about me that I just can't change. I might be able to limit it, but never completely get rid of it, I believe. I just have to know, does that make me pathetic? I have no doubt my wife despises me, but I want to believe that's her problem, not mine.

Of course a normal woman would appreciate that type of devotion but only as long as she is devoted to you as well. She has to be willing to work with you to strengthen the marriage. She has to be there to listen when you need an ear, comfort you in times when you need comforting, and to have a mutual respect for you as her husband. I seem to run into a lot of codependent people these days . Nothing necessarily wrong with that... hey we ALL have something about ourselves. At least you are in tune with who you are which says a lot. I don't think it makes you pathetic at all. It's just a matter of finding someone you are compatible with. We all are so individual and when you find someone you just click with/get each other it's an amazing thing! As long as you are aware then there is nothing wrong with it. We all want to believe it's all the spouses fault but honestly we have a little bit of the blame too.

Let me salute you for your dedication to your role as mother and wife. I can see that you certainly tried to make your marriage work. I applaud you for doing what you had to do to move on in your life, when you burnt those old letters. It must have been difficult though. Didn't you feel like you were destroying the only trace of the man you fell in love with?

Thank you. Yes I could not ask for anything more fulfilling then to be a wife and mother. The greatest job on the earth! To answer your question no at the time I didn't feel anything when burning those cards. It was only when they were all burnt that I broke down and cried BUT I felt so much better the next day. I felt like I was taking little steps to getting my life back on track.

You probably saw your old things in a different way though, right? How did you feel when you burned them? How did you reach the decision to do so?

Immediately after I broke down. The next day I felt amazing. Little by little I am forging forward in my own life.

I didn't mean to disparage all people with emotional problems or behavioral disorders.

Ow I know I just tend to want to defend those who suffer from whatever mental illness just because I have a sympathetic heart to those who suffer wit it. However I do not have sympathy for those who do not seek help. Though sometimes these people don't even realize they need help. I have such compassion for people who suffer with mental illness I wish so much I could help them in some way. Maybe one day HF will call me to that fulfilling duty in my life to help those who are suffering.

It's just that I've had my heart broken by two different women and they both suffered from clinical depression (among other issues). I just can't go down that road again. I've been burned too many times, too severely. But you make a good point about a person's willingness to deal with their own issues. I remember going to marriage counseling with my wife. She'd be rude to me on the way there and back, but while we were there she put on a nice face. I believe she approached her individual counseling the same way. I believe she has Borderline Personality Disorder, but she has yet to be diagnosed.

BPD is one of the most difficult mental disorders to diagnose. Considering 1.6% are diagnosed with BPD versus lets say ADHD at 4.1%. Much of what falls under it can be connected to other disorder rather than being BPD. It's very quick for people to throw around the BPD diagnosis because it seems like the easy answer but without a thorough evaluation that would take some time obviously you may never know. Honestly at this point I wouldn't even worry about it since you are no longer together.

I believe this is because she does not open up to her psychiatrist. She also has a knack for finding physicians who don't take her seriously, who dismiss her complaints and fail to diagnose real problems, or misdiagnose them.

Did you ever take it upon yourself to pick out a psychiatrist and/or go with her on her appointments? Or was she just going by herself?

Hang in there! You seem to be on the right track in your life. You have so much to look forward to just remember that. Do all the things that you love to do... step out of your comfort zone... and just be yourself.

Edited May 13, 2010 by mirancs8

[its_Chet]

Hey there Mr. T. Hats off to you (especially the furry ones). The uh, "more prized" attire was the first thing I packed up. It kept reminding me of anniversaries and other special occasions. Too many memories that to me defined who she was, and the level of health of our relationship. All those memories turned to agonizing torture and I just couldn't stand to be reminded of what I'd lost. There's one positive side to being married to a person with Borderline Personality Disorder: When they're on, they're ON! Unfortunately, I have come to realize that's not the real her. When she's off, that's the real her. Nobody should have to play "spin the wheel and see what you get" all their lives.

Sounds like you've handled what we all know is a horribly painful situation with remarkable aplomb, or humor, at least. I hope you can continue your healing. I hope we all can.

Mirancs8, you hit the nail on the head, talking about how it feels to watch your eternal companion turn into your enemy, to feel the brutal, crushing blow of every sacred, cherished memory turning into a lie. You wonder how you could have ever let such a person touch you, let alone have children with them. And all those years, you could have spent giving your love to someone who'd have appreciated it, you feel like you wasted all those years on an ungrateful, backstabbing monster, who now only wants to hurt you in any way possible, to any degree possible. I don't mean to remind you about all this, but only to say that I know just how you feel. And I bet I'm not the only one, unfortunately.

I won't ask you how old you are. I'm 36. I never dated or felt comfortable in social situations when I was younger, and I looked better then. I've often said that I gave my wife the best years of my life. Now that I'm about to lose her and will have to find someone else, I know she will have to look past the love handles and other things that make me self conscious. Putting that aside, if I do find someone who is able to treat me the same way I treat her, who is emotionally stable, loving, and warm hearted, I will feel like I gave what belonged to her to someone else. Not only my 20s and early 30s, but so many "firsts" were given to someone who is going to get a divorce from me (and by now I prefer that anyway). I can't take all that back to give to someone more worthy, and I really wish I could.

A friend of mine who got divorced from his BPD wife and is now remarried to a woman who treats him very well explained this to me in a pretty insightful way. He said that you can compare your memories to a filing cabinet. For a while, the memories of the spouse you just lost will be fresh in your mind. They'll be the files in your file cabinet that are toward the front of the drawer. But as life goes on, whether you mean for it to happen or not, newer memories will go into that drawer, pushing the ones of your ex back, one file at a time. He said that while he didn't get remarried just to deal with the pain, he did not realize until after he got remarried that it was an important part of his healing process, and that as well as he felt before, getting remarried and starting over with someone else really helped put more files in that cabinet. I guess some files just won't go to the back of the drawer until you put a similar, newer file in it. My friend said that he thought he was truly over his ex wife, but realized after he got remarried that only then was he completely over her.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I hear it gets better. I hear that you eventually replace those once beautiful, now excruciating memories, when you marry someone else and they fill that spouse-shaped hole inside your heart. And then you have beautiful memories all over again, and you can forget the pain of watching the ones you had before become mocking lies. That's how I hear it works, and I'm looking forward to that.

Now if I can just get rid of those love handles.....

[bl8tant]

A friend of mine who got divorced from his BPD wife and is now remarried to a woman who treats him very well explained this to me in a pretty insightful way. He said that you can compare your memories to a filing cabinet.

This is a brilliant analogy, its_Chet-- thank you for sharing it.

Now if I can just get rid of those love handles.....

A couple of (well-intentioned and hopefully not offensive) suggestions. First, grab a copy of Mindless Eating. It's short, but fascinating; basically the author's thesis is that we commonly eat more than we want or need to because of environmental factors that we don't even recognize. If you google for "endless soup bowl experiment" you should find a couple of examples of the author's research.

Second, create a free account at livestrong.com, which has a pretty darn good calorie tracker. I've learned that if I make myself accountable by writing down everything I eat, I don't have the urge to overeat or snack nearly as much.

I suspect if you do those two things you'll lose some weight just through the natural process of not eating as much. Once you see some results there you may be more motivated to exercise, which of course will help you get in shape even faster.

[MisterT]

Chet-

Be yourself love-handles and all, instead of trying to be someone else. And move to Wisconsin where anyone under 300 pounds is considered fit and skinny... In Milwaukee I'm a God amongst men (I have all of my teeth and none of them are green) and have no difficult time finding someone to go out on a 'date' with, because, as I said, I'm considered to be fit and skinny (I only weigh 260lbs at 6'3")

[its_Chet]

Hi there Mirancs8

Didn't see your last post until now. I want to state just for the record that I wasn't trying to boast about how hard I tried to save my marriage, thereby implying that you had not. I didn't mean it that way, and I don't think you took it that way, but when I read my own words as you quoted them, it kind of sounded that way. Just wanted to put this out there.

It's funny you mention going with her to her psychiatrist. Back in December I was supposed to go out to visit her and the boys. She had an appointment during the time I was going to be there. She invited me to go with her after I mentioned that I'd like to talk to her psychiatrist. I told her I wanted to speak to him in private if possible and she freaked out. Now I have to say that the reason why I wanted to talk to him in private was because I've heard that you shouldn't tell someone who has BPD that they have it unless you're qualified to treat it, or you could do more harm than good. They tend to get very defensive, go into denial, and resist any opportunity to resolve the issue, or so I hear. So I knew I couldn't tell her what it was I think she has. But she figured my thinking was that I wanted to try to get her hopped up on medication so that she'd be more pliable and willing to come home.

I did not go out there in December and trust between us has been dead since then. We haven't really gotten along since then.

Over the last few months, she's made it clear that she is an Arizona girl and takes every opportunity she can find to make a show of her embrace of all things Arizona, and her disdain for everything that reminds her of me. It's the weather, it's the stake center we just drove past where she went to a youth dance every week when she was 17 blah blah blah, it's the way she expects extended family to raise our children because she's too emotionally crippled to do it and yet still wants to take them away from me, it's the way she thinks being a good husband means you have to be a total tool who enjoys being manipulated, dominated, used and abused, etc. She consistently paints a picture of a past without me, and a tailor-made future I cannot fit into, a future that requires her shedding the part of her that was compatible with me, and actively feeding the part of her that never accepted me. She is emotionally fleeing from me. And I'm tired of chasing.

I don't want to sound self absorbed by going on about my situation, at least not without being asked to. I don't want to poke and prod at your situation more than you're comfortable with either, so I'll back off if I get a hint. Until then, I want to make sure I don't jeopardize my own future by being too much like your ex. Not that I'm pursuing you, just, I like to learn from other peoples' mistakes instead of repeating them myself, when possible.

I am kind of passive and not comfortable taking control. My wife was always very domineering, selfish, and aggressive. She never compromised when there was a difference of opinion. She either conquered or capitulated, one or the other. I got used to her running the show. She never asked me to take over and she didn't want me to.

I understand that your ex got on your bad side by not pulling his weight. I also understand that he would say desperate things to you not unlike me telling my wife about that dream I had. If you could give advice to all us newly divorced and soon to be guys here at lds.net on how not to be like your ex, what would it be? Where did he go wrong? When did he change from being the man you wanted to be with forever to your future ex? I can only speak for myself, but I worry after having my heart broken twice that maybe there's something wrong with me, or maybe I'm just not smart enough to tell a peach from a lemon.

What advice can you give a guy like me on how not to be like your ex?

[its_Chet]

Thanks bl8tant and Mr. T.

I was down to 130 at 5'9, but the depression started to go away and I couldn't stop eating little debbies and snickers. I was up to 65 push ups for a while, but am down to 45 now. I haven't weighed myself lately, but I'd guess I'm probably at about 145. I know it doesn't look like much in print, but with my small, unimpressive frame, I look pregnant in the mirror, from the side view. Thankfully I've got some decent tone in my pecs, triceps, and shoulders, so I still almost feel like a man.

I need to go back to eating more salad and white meat, and less sweets. I just kind of went crazy for a while there when I realized I could buy whatever I want at the store, bring it home, and it wouldn't all be gone in a day. Heck, I'm not used to being allowed to decide how one penny of what I earn is spent.

I'm not used to having so much freedom yet. I need to slow things down a bit I guess, and ease into it more gracefully.

[MisterT]

I made a lot of mistakes in my marriage; primarily I just wasn't 'there' to help her with things. I was self-employed as an electrical/structural steel contractor, and I'd deliberately looked for projects well away from home; sometimes for months on end. I also drank quite a bit, and I know that my drinking problem was a large contributing factor to my divorce and the estrangement of my children.

Oh, just to have a do-over card. Just once, knowing what I know now. Things would be really different, and I would be much happier and still married to the mother of my 4 children. I feel like an idiot for letting her slip away the way she did.

Oh well, if life closes a door in front of you, bash out the front picture window with a conveniently located bar stool and run for your life.

I also let my ex-wife control our finances; after all, I was gone for months on end. Its not that I can't handle money (ex-wife couldn't - she spent thousands on garbage knick-knacks, but could never find the cash to make the house payment on time), I just wasn't there when I should have been. When I went in for tithing settlement and was asked "do you pay a full tithe and make fast offerings," I told him I had no idea, that I assumed my wife took care of those kind of things while I was travelling from one coast to the next, then back again.

Oh well, lesson learned.

CHet; whered you get the Ushanka? Is that a Soviet uniform you're wearing?

Privet, Droog.

Edited May 13, 2010 by MisterT

[Guest mirancs8]

Thanks bl8tant and Mr. T.

I was down to 130 at 5'9, but the depression started to go away and I couldn't stop eating little debbies and snickers. I was up to 65 push ups for a while, but am down to 45 now. I haven't weighed myself lately, but I'd guess I'm probably at about 145. I know it doesn't look like much in print, but with my small, unimpressive frame, I look pregnant in the mirror, from the side view. Thankfully I've got some decent tone in my pecs, triceps, and shoulders, so I still almost feel like a man.

I need to go back to eating more salad and white meat, and less sweets. I just kind of went crazy for a while there when I realized I could buy whatever I want at the store, bring it home, and it wouldn't all be gone in a day. Heck, I'm not used to being allowed to decide how one penny of what I earn is spent.

I'm not used to having so much freedom yet. I need to slow things down a bit I guess, and ease into it more gracefully.

WAIT A MINUTE! YOU WEIGHT UNDER 200 POUNDS AT NEARLY 6 FEET TALL!!!!!! And you think you need to lose weight at 145! Ow my goodness NO!!!!! At 6ft you should be between 180-250 depending on your frame. That's just to thin for a man. You must be looking in one of those amusement park mirrors or something.

[MisterT]

I pretty much stopped weighing myself and instead judge my physical condition by the size of clothing I can fit into. Right now I'm in clothes I bought just after I got out of the Army.

[MisterT]

Mirancs, drop into the chat room!

[Guest mirancs8]

I won't ask you how old you are.

You won't?? I bet you could never guess how old I am. It's a number stuck in your head... hummm can you say 36 LOL!!!!

I never dated or felt comfortable in social situations when I was younger, and I looked better then. I've often said that I gave my wife the best years of my life. Now that I'm about to lose her and will have to find someone else, I know she will have to look past the love handles and other things that make me self conscious. Putting that aside, if I do find someone who is able to treat me the same way I treat her, who is emotionally stable, loving, and warm hearted, I will feel like I gave what belonged to her to someone else.

Well then you better get yourself ready for that dating scene because it's full of surprises, personalities, and all kinds of awkward moments. Seriously you'll have fun. Just take it all in stride and don't take yourself so seriously. Have a great time and enjoy the opportunity you have to meet various women. It's your chance to take your time and find the perfect person who will complete your eternal happiness.

OK, you have to stop putting yourself down! I know cause I do this a lot and it's a bad habit. By the time you reach our age you are no longer the 20 year old with the 6pk abs LOL! As long as you are healthy... ow and you carry a suit well . I never look at a mans body. As long as he tries to live a healthy lifestyle that's what matters. Once you get past the appearance reality kicks in. I'm more concerned about the man underneath it all. His personality/character, integrity, humbleness, strength in his faith, and his actions not just his words. My attitude is if a man doesn't like me for who I am just based on my appearance he is definitely not worth my time. You can change that part of yourself, but you can't change your personality and such. Remember to love who you are.

A friend of mine who got divorced from his BPD wife and is now remarried to a woman who treats him very well explained this to me in a pretty insightful way. He said that you can compare your memories to a filing cabinet.

We have to find you a positive BPD experience LOL! Sorry don't mean to poke fun but I have to find the humor in everything. It's like Glenn Beck with his ADHD. He always laughs and makes fun of that part of him. I do think sometimes of those really funny stuff that happened with my STBX and his ADHD that wouldn't happen in a normal relationship. I try to drum them up once in a while to laugh instead of always harping on the negative stuff which was a thousand times more then the good stuff. Laughter is the best medicine trust me .

Now if I can just get rid of those love handles.....

There you go with those love handles again LOL!!!!!

I want to state just for the record that I wasn't trying to boast about how hard I tried to save my marriage, thereby implying that you had not.

You weren't boasting no worries. We have all worked so hard in our marriages and I know what you are feeling.

It's funny you mention going with her to her psychiatrist. Back in December I was supposed to go out to visit her and the boys. She had an appointment during the time I was going to be there. She invited me to go with her after I mentioned that I'd like to talk to her psychiatrist. I told her I wanted to speak to him in private if possible and she freaked out. Now I have to say that the reason why I wanted to talk to him in private was because I've heard that you shouldn't tell someone who has BPD that they have it unless you're qualified to treat it, or you could do more harm than good. They tend to get very defensive, go into denial, and resist any opportunity to resolve the issue, or so I hear. So I knew I couldn't tell her what it was I think she has. But she figured my thinking was that I wanted to try to get her hopped up on medication so that she'd be more pliable and willing to come home.

Ah yeah I wouldn't advise telling any woman you are divorcing that you want to speak to her shrink in private . That's called a "MAN NO NO!" You just crossed the "you want to what?!" line with a woman. I would have reacted to that too. I have no issue going together but no for my soon to be ex having a little get together to talk about me alone... ah no. So now you just don't care right? Being that your divorce is coming to an end you might want to let go of the "I want to save her" stage. Now is the time you put yourself on the priority list. You have a lot of healing to finish up. So would she have been on the mark with thinking you would be trying to get her "hopped up on medication" so she would be more "pliable" and come back home to you?

I did not go out there in December and trust between us has been dead since then.

So how long has it been since you have seen your children? Are you a car drive away or a flight away? Not sure where you live.

Over the last few months, she's made it clear that she is an Arizona girl and takes every opportunity she can find to make a show of her embrace of all things Arizona, and her disdain for everything that reminds her of me. It's the weather, it's the stake center we just drove past where she went to a youth dance every week when she was 17 blah blah blah, it's the way she expects extended family to raise our children because she's too emotionally crippled to do it and yet still wants to take them away from me, it's the way she thinks being a good husband means you have to be a total tool who enjoys being manipulated, dominated, used and abused, etc. She consistently paints a picture of a past without me, and a tailor-made future I cannot fit into, a future that requires her shedding the part of her that was compatible with me, and actively feeding the part of her that never accepted me. She is emotionally fleeing from me. And I'm tired of chasing.

so she's in Arizona. I know I probably read that on another post but didn't remember. So she's in my stomping grounds. She's embracing all thing Arizona ey. Not that exciting here to tell you the truth. Not sure how much time you've spent here but it's OK not great. I do miss the seasons changing. Christmas doesn't feel like Christmas! The weather is boring. Sunny, sunny, sunny... oooh we're gonna get some rain! Nope no rain... more sun, hot, hot, baking hot, and time to fry the eggs on the side walk HOT! Yes we have some "tools" down here. Not many but there are... of course they are all married. Stop chasing it's so not worth it at this point. She's obviously an Arizona girl now so she has her new adventure in front of her. It's unfortunately but you have to just have to move on. You deserve to have happiness and eternal love in your life. Look to the future.

I like to learn from other peoples' mistakes instead of repeating them myself, when possible.

I think that's great to learn from others. Just remember you want to be yourself. No matter how much you try to change that change has to be for yourself not for someone else. The things that I am working on with myself are because I want to change for me not for anyone else. I want to be the best I can be. There is someone out there who will love you for who you are. We all have room for improvement but that improvement has to be for yourself and your happiness.

I am kind of passive and not comfortable taking control. My wife was always very domineering, selfish, and aggressive. She never compromised when there was a difference of opinion. She either conquered or capitulated, one or the other. I got used to her running the show. She never asked me to take over and she didn't want me to.

Yeah I would crush you The trick is you have to give it enough time to see if you are both compatible. If you are a passive person you have to find someone that matches that well. Someone who has a strong character/personality needs to find someone who either matches or has a stronger character/personality. For instance I have a strong character/personality whereas my ex was very passive and never took control. If I had known him better I would have seen this before we got married but unfortunately I didn't. See your STBX fed off of your passiveness (put the BPD on the back burner right now) it gave her the platform she needed to run the show. One day she might meet her match and he'll be able to put her down a few notches.

I understand that your ex got on your bad side by not pulling his weight. I also understand that he would say desperate things to you not unlike me telling my wife about that dream I had. If you could give advice to all us newly divorced and soon to be guys here at lds.net on how not to be like your ex, what would it be? Where did he go wrong? When did he change from being the man you wanted to be with forever to your future ex? I can only speak for myself, but I worry after having my heart broken twice that maybe there's something wrong with me, or maybe I'm just not smart enough to tell a peach from a lemon.

What advice can you give a guy like me on how not to be like your ex?

You know I can't say that I am in any position to actually give advice since I myself can be a challenge as we all can in a particular situation. You do the best you can and be yourself. The key is that whatever change you bring about it should be for yourself. When you better yourself women will feed off of that positive vibe coming off of you. Believe in yourself. Know that you are worthy to have eternal love and happiness in your life. Open your heart to accept love in your life again. Have faith that there is someone very special waiting for you... it's just a matter of meeting. Focus on yourself and gain your happiness. Nothing is more attractive then a man who can see the positive in life... who can take from their past trials and turn their lives around. Be true to yourself. Be yourself.

My ex may have not done anything wrong in someone else's eyes so who am I to really judge. Who am I to say that in the general scope of things he is completely wrong. Maybe one day someone will come into his life that will be perfect for him. I sure hope he finds that happiness. In my situation he did lots wrong, but for someone else he could be the perfect match. What problems we had was very specific to our relationship it wasn't like a general don't do it thing.

Ow and yes I am terrified to get my heart broken. But you know what so is everyone else. It's a normal feeling to have. Just be more cautious, take your time, and tend to yourself. Build your confidence as a man, a Priesthood holder, a father, a potential husband and head of your household. It's a huge plate of responsibility... are you ready for the challenge?

Heck, I'm not used to being allowed to decide how one penny of what I earn is spent.

Ow my goodness! I dream of the day to have a husband who can handle the finances. This part drove me NUTS! I felt deeply this should be a shared responsibility but that he should control it and boy that wasn't the case. No matter how many times I suggested it... even pushed it he couldn't do it! Our finances were such mess just letting him do it for a month. UGH! I hated that part.

[Guest mirancs8]

Mirancs, drop into the chat room!

It's not open yet! It goes on in like an hour. 11pm.

[MisterT]

I'm using it right now and have been for several hours

[Guest mirancs8]

Be yourself love-handles and all, instead of trying to be someone else. And move to Wisconsin where anyone under 300 pounds is considered fit and skinny... In Milwaukee I'm a God amongst men (I have all of my teeth and none of them are green) and have no difficult time finding someone to go out on a 'date' with, because, as I said, I'm considered to be fit and skinny (I only weigh 260lbs at 6'3")

OK this has to be the funnest post yet because I can relate to this. When I first went to Wisconsin I felt like a runway model LOL! No kidding over 300 pounds flannel wearing beer bellied men AND women. Ow my yes and all those missing teeth! I bet you can't wait to move you stud you LOL!!!

[Guest mirancs8]

I'm using it right now and have been for several hours

Very weird. This is the message I get.

Chat is unavailable 11pm - 6am MST. Please try again later.

[MisterT]

yeah, it just bumped me out when I tried to change some perameters

Soooooo bo red... Can't sleep, don't want to eat, don't feel like reading...

[Guest mirancs8]

I made a lot of mistakes in my marriage; primarily I just wasn't 'there' to help her with things. I was self-employed as an electrical/structural steel contractor, and I'd deliberately looked for projects well away from home; sometimes for months on end. I also drank quite a bit, and I know that my drinking problem was a large contributing factor to my divorce and the estrangement of my children.

We all made mistakes whether we want to admit it or not. So when you say you "deliberately looked for projects well away from home" may I ask why? You don't have to go into detail but just curious. I know why I avoiding coming home because every discussion turned into an argument. Discussions would go into endless circles never to get resolved. It got old after a while. I was tired of it. There was no love there. It was more like 2 roommates living together. Yeah I drank like a fish throughout the marriage except when I was pregnant of course. I used it as therapy to take the reality away. So were you born into the LDS faith or are you a convert?

Oh, just to have a do-over card. Just once, knowing what I know now. Things would be really different, and I would be much happier and still married to the mother of my 4 children. I feel like an idiot for letting her slip away the way she did.

See what's good is you recognize where it all went wrong so the next time you are better equipped to be a better husband and Priesthood holder.

I also let my ex-wife control our finances; after all, I was gone for months on end. Its not that I can't handle money (ex-wife couldn't - she spent thousands on garbage knick-knacks, but could never find the cash to make the house payment on time), I just wasn't there when I should have been. When I went in for tithing settlement and was asked "do you pay a full tithe and make fast offerings," I told him I had no idea, that I assumed my wife took care of those kind of things while I was travelling from one coast to the next, then back again.

Well being that you were traveling as much as you did and not really at home I would imagine there wasn't much of a choice on who control the finances. Do you think that she wasn't taking care of things like the house payment and such as a payback because you weren't around. Like a payback to you being an absent husband / father? She didn't pay the tithing because she knew you would have to deal with it in the end which would obviously make you not a happy camping. You are thinking it's being taken care of a behold it's not. My STBX spent a little over a year on the road and it's not easy when you are married and your husband is never around for you and the children. Though for me it was like a well deserved vacation if I was in a normal healthy relationship it would be very hard. Definitely worth making that positive change in your next marriage.

It takes a lot of work from both ends to make a marriage work.

[Guest mirancs8]

Soooooo bo red... Can't sleep, don't want to eat, don't feel like reading...

Tell me something I don't know This is me every night. It will soon be time to take the sleeping pills so I can force myself to go to sleep. Actually reading might get you sleeping... no don't want to eat then you really can't sleep!

Tic Toc Tic Toc.... hummm got to love the insomnia!

[MisterT]

I was just taken off Ambien after 2 years of use; and Zaleplon, and chloral hydrate...

I bought a big box of diphenhydramine HCL (antihistamine - benadryl) because it makes some people sleepy. Ended up taking 300mg's of it; not even a yawn. But I did discover that its a powerful hallucionogen and hypnotic, much like ambien. Its actually a pleasant feeling; ambien always felt.. fake to me when I took it. It made me sleepy, but not necessarily tired.

And the Ambien nightmares were pretty bad too...

Edited May 14, 2010 by MisterT