Has America Already Collapsed?

[Rico]

Ok, ok, I know there are fringe groups who are always talking about things collapsing and everything falling apart. Some of them are already preparing for this impending collapse. Others are trying to make money out of it.

I am just wondering if we already have collapsed. It's an intriguing thought I had the other day. I figured there are several signs of a society/civilization collapsed and then decided to compare society now to them. I came to my conclusion already, but was wondering what others thought?

All I know is that by time everyone realizes that a society has collapsed, it has long been dead....

- Evil is rewarded and goodness is punished.

- Ignorance and foolishness are revered while true intellect is scoffed at.

- An economy ceases to be based on creation and instead becomes focused on destruction.

- Government spends more than it can ever possibly think of paying back

- Learning between generations ceases...culture and values are no longer passed from generation to generation.

- Instead of leisure time devoted to innovation, leisure time is devoted to laziness.

- Entertainment appeals to the lowest common denomination.

These are just a few of the signs I took a look at that accompany other failed societies/civilizations...

[Snow]

Ok, ok, I know there are fringe groups who are always talking about things collapsing and everything falling apart. Some of them are already preparing for this impending collapse. Others are trying to make money out of it.

I am just wondering if we already have collapsed. It's an intriguing thought I had the other day. I figured there are several signs of a society/civilization collapsed and then decided to compare society now to them. I came to my conclusion already, but was wondering what others thought?

All I know is that by time everyone realizes that a society has collapsed, it has long been dead....

Yeah - how insightful. America has collapsed.

- Evil is rewarded and goodness is punished.

- Ignorance and foolishness are revered while true intellect is scoffed at.

- An economy ceases to be based on creation and instead becomes focused on destruction.

- Government spends more than it can ever possibly think of paying back

- Learning between generations ceases...culture and values are no longer passed from generation to generation.

- Instead of leisure time devoted to innovation, leisure time is devoted to laziness.

- Entertainment appeals to the lowest common denomination.

These are just a few of the signs I took a look at that accompany other failed societies/civilizations...

Perhaps you run with a low-life crowd. I don't recognize my society in anything you said.

[Adomini22]

Lets ignore Snow on this one topic.

I recognize those signs everywhere. I think it is very close to collapsing. When it does though, the prophets have said that each family will go back to being like tribes. States wont have an influence, basically is how I think of it. If the economy collapses under the national debt, I believe this will take place. Of course, there is no avoiding it. Good thought.

[SLC2002GOLD]

Don't forget the Kenyan currently occupying the White House.

[john doe]

Yes. I suggest you move to China, where opportunity abounds!!!

[ADoyle90815]

What's scary is that there are people who hate the occupant of the White House so much, that the Secret Service has had to put more agents into protecting him, instead of tracking counterfitters. It's scary that another Oklahoma City bombing can happen, done by so-called Christian terrorists.

[talisyn]

We're dooooomed!

Believe it or not there was a time when the USA was not the power of the world. In fact, it's rise has only been in the last 100 years or so. Personally, I think it's healthy to have times of prominence and times of humbleness. It worked for the Nephites for a lot longer than the USA has even been a nation.

And I agree with Snow. The people I hang out with are good people, too.

[Bini]

I knew this Nation was doomed after watching people txtmsg during Avatar.

[Just_A_Guy]

What's scary is that there are people who hate the occupant of the White House so much, that the Secret Service has had to put more agents into protecting him, instead of tracking counterfitters.

I'd enjoy seeing a link on this. Thanks.

As to the OP: I think we need to distinguish between American politics and American society.

Politically: I do worry. We have a lot of stuff, but we bought a lot of it on credit. I'm not sure we've ever owed money so much to a foreign power that a) might actually beat us in a war, b) is ideologically opposed to us, and c) has an enormous number of unattached, military-aged young men and all the social problems that go with that.

Socially: Yeah, I think we're on a downward trend, but so is the rest of the western world. But when you look back at some of the stuff we see in the Book of Mormon, or in ancient Mesopotamian society--routine cannibalism, child sacrifice, legally-mandated patronization of prostitutes--we've got a long way to go, so I don't see the need to get unduly alarmist just yet.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[marshac]

I don't think that the collapse of society and moral decline aren't necessarily the same- one can precipitate the other, but they are still dissimilar.

If society collapsed, you would know it, and i'll bet doughnuts that you wouldn't be on here speculating.

[john doe]

What's scary is that there are people who hate the occupant of the White House so much, that the Secret Service has had to put more agents into protecting him, instead of tracking counterfitters. It's scary that another Oklahoma City bombing can happen, done by so-called Christian terrorists.

Hmmmm, I installed a few counters as a young man working for a cabinetmaker, I didn't see anything going on that would attract the attention of the Secret Service. Unless you're talking about the wild things going on at the occasional Carpenter's Ball. I heard a guy swear at one of those once, and a few of the women were dressed less than, ahem, modestly.

[Snow]

Lets ignore Snow on this one topic.

I recognize those signs everywhere. I think it is very close to collapsing. When it does though, the prophets have said that each family will go back to being like tribes. States wont have an influence, basically is how I think of it. If the economy collapses under the national debt, I believe this will take place. Of course, there is no avoiding it. Good thought.

Wow - how can anyone argue with that. You think it will collapse, and "of course, there is no avoiding it."

How persuasive.

[Moksha]

Another fun thing is to suggest to evangelists that the rapture has already occurred.

For every Chicken Little out there with doom and gloom in the weather forecast, there are others still appreciating life and its continuance even without metal umbrellas.

[Rico]

My eyeglasses sure must be a different color than the ones y'all are using here....anyone know where I can buy the rose colored eyeglasses? :)

Seriously, I expected the same response that I got. If it could all be recognized then things would be different. The recognition will never come at the same time because our reactions would then be in sync. Thankfully, God gave each of us wisdom to ask the right questions and seek out answers. We have been given the gift of personal revelation.

[Guest Godless]

Perhaps you run with a low-life crowd. I don't recognize my society in anything you said.

I tend to run with the low-life crowd, and I don't know what he's talking about either.

All I know is that by time everyone realizes that a society has collapsed, it has long been dead....

- Evil is rewarded and goodness is punished.

- Ignorance and foolishness are revered while true intellect is scoffed at.

- An economy ceases to be based on creation and instead becomes focused on destruction.

- Government spends more than it can ever possibly think of paying back

- Learning between generations ceases...culture and values are no longer passed from generation to generation.

- Instead of leisure time devoted to innovation, leisure time is devoted to laziness.

- Entertainment appeals to the lowest common denomination.

These are just a few of the signs I took a look at that accompany other failed societies/civilizations...

I was going to reply to this piece-by-piece, but then I realized that my response to each of these is to ask for examples. I can see where you're coming from with the economic issues (though I still think you're being a bit alarmist), but the rest left me scratching my head.

[Snow]

I tend to run with the low-life crowd...

Odd... I never see you at our rallies.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Snow

[marshac]

My eyeglasses sure must be a different color than the ones y'all are using here....anyone know where I can buy the rose colored eyeglasses? :)

Seriously, I expected the same response that I got. If it could all be recognized then things would be different. The recognition will never come at the same time because our reactions would then be in sync. Thankfully, God gave each of us wisdom to ask the right questions and seek out answers. We have been given the gift of personal revelation.

So I just haven't been asking the right questions?

A decline of moral standards is not the same as societal collapse- the former doesn't even necessarily cause the later- we would like to think that it does however.

In terms of collapse itself, I would encourage you to read this article in Foreign Affairs- the author does an excellent job of tracing collapses through history and does a good job of showing that collapses occur much more suddenly than we like to think. There are quantifiable stages a society goes through, but I doubt anyone living within a particular epoch would be able to accurately predict the end of one and the beginning of the next- remember- people have been predicting the end of the world (and their particular countries) since time began.

Frankly however, I don't believe that a 'readjustment' in society will occur as a result of morals, but rather a decrease in the production of crude oil- that's what keeps me up at night.

[Snow]

I'd like to see some evidence that society is any less moral than 150 years ago or 300 or 900.

[john doe]

I'd like to see some evidence that society is any less moral than 150 years ago or 300 or 900.

Well, we show more leg in public. That's all the proof anyone needs, isn't it?

[Snow]

Well, we show more leg in public. That's all the proof anyone needs, isn't it?

:)

People constantly lament the deteriorating state of societies morals, like the OP of this thread, supposing that they so much lower than ever before. For all anybody knows we are more moral than in day, years, centuries in the past. Is there any evidence, beyond an idea in someone's head?

[Dravin]

:)

Is there any evidence, beyond an idea in someone's head?

[gabelpa]

Here is what I see in the USA. Erosions of some freedoms, but a Nation that iss till trying to hang on, and in some places, correct past mistakes.

Anyone who thinks the USA has collapsed needs to look at a properly collapsed nation, where anarchy reigns, like Somalia... where all these pirates are coming from. If America had collapsed, there would be no infrastructure or rule of law. Think on that, i would say more but my thumbs are cramping up, typing on a thumb keybord is no fun.

[NeuroTypical]

My eyeglasses sure must be a different color than the ones y'all are using here....anyone know where I can buy the rose colored eyeglasses? :)

Aw man! I missed my chance to post a differing opinion and gather another insult from the end-times-apocolypse crowd! Fortunately, "rose colored glasses" is already on the list I've been called, right next to "ostrich with my head in the sand" and "contentious".

Thankfully, God gave each of us wisdom to ask the right questions and seek out answers. We have been given the gift of personal revelation.

Another theme common with fringe-doctrine folks - "If you don't believe as I do, you just haven't had it confirmed to you by God yet". Cemented-in-stone zeal can be a scary thing.

Anyway Rico, much of your post simply flies in the face of what the dictionary has to say about the word 'collapse'.

- An economy ceases to be based on creation and instead becomes focused on destruction.

A collapsed economy can't be based on anything, cuz it's fallen down and isn't working. That's sort of the definition of collapse.

- Government spends more than it can ever possibly think of paying back

A collapsed government isn't spending because it has collapsed. If a government is spending, then by definition, it hasn't collapsed.

LM

Edited April 25, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Guest xforeverxmetalx]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really see the point of trying to define exactly what a collapsed society is. It's not like, as soon as we "collapse", some monster is going to show up and eat us all or anything. Nothing's going to happen, no matter how we define it. Besides what already has.

In the end, what we're really afraid of in a collapsed society is exactly the sort of things you're using to define it.

If that makes any sense.

[john doe]

My eyeglasses sure must be a different color than the ones y'all are using here....anyone know where I can buy the rose colored eyeglasses? :)

Well, I found some nice Aviators here: RS67027 Rose Lens Sunglasses, Classic Aviator Style Metal Frame, Spring Temple - Rose Lens Sunglasses - Polarized4U Sunglasses

At only $22.95, the price isn't too bad either.