The People before Adam


Moksha
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Here is an observational viewpoint for the LDS members or scholars, if Kolob is a glorified world (Star for the science community) that stands next to GOD’s world, the earth itself when created (last round)stood next to Kolob, and according to President Young, both Adams were in the garden, we are told that the earth was considered to be a terrestrial state. Then what state is Kolob?

Edited by Hemidakota
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does the Bible not say that God is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omnisicient? I dont have my Bible in front of me but I thought it said that.

LDS members are told that GOD’s corporeal is a glorified personage. How can GOD be everywhere with a glorified body?

I am not just picking on you but more of learning how it is done keeping the scriptures as to support it.

Many times, I have heard members of the church state what was posted and not know how it is done.

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LDS members are told that GOD’s corporeal is a glorified personage. How can GOD be everywhere with a glorified body?

I am not just picking on you but more of learning how it is done keeping the scriptures as to support it.

Many times, I have heard members of the church state what was posted and not know how it is done.

Through the Holy Ghost?

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LDS members are told that GOD’s corporeal is a glorified personage. How can GOD be everywhere with a glorified body?

I am not just picking on you but more of learning how it is done keeping the scriptures as to support it.

Many times, I have heard members of the church state what was posted and not know how it is done.

Ok I think Im getting where you are coming from. What do Mormons believe regarding the Trinity? God in spiritual form (the Holy Spirit) can be wherever He wants. I believe God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one in the same. While Jesus was on Earth he was also in Heaven.

This is something that is extremely hard for the human brain to comprehend. Its the same thing as God always was, is, and is to come. The is and is to come part are easy to understand because future and present are easy. But understanding eternity past is something that is hard to grasp. This is one of those scenarios that a human brain simply cant fathom.

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You are right. The Holy Ghost can be everywhere, bound by Celestial laws, travel from world-to-world in what we cannot fathom for our ownselves, in instance.

But how can GOD be everywhere observed HIS creation and still see it all without being everywhere?

I would still say Holy Ghost without knowing more information about God's ways. I think we can call the Godhead, "God". Right?

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You are right. The Holy Ghost can be everywhere, bound by Celestial laws, travel from world-to-world in what we cannot fathom for our ownselves, in instance.

But how can GOD be everywhere observed HIS creation and still see it all without being everywhere?

Again this concept is hard to grasp but the Holy Spirit is God in Spirit form, Jesus is God in human form. They are 3 in 1. So if the Holy Spirit is somewhere then God is there as well.

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I used to be a Catholic myself and understand where you are going with this.

Prior to being a convert to the church, for me, I was a literalist. If someone told me that GOD can reveal HIMSELF to me, knowing the individual with great trust, I would believe him until it is answer. He told me that GOD can talk to man and answer your question on whether or not this gospel is true. That Joseph Smith was called of HIM.

Then after with thorough sincere intent prayers that lasted for couple of months, changing one life style, still researching the truth, I continue to ask GOD day and night until I received that answer personally.

What I thought, the Godhead (Trinity concept) consisted of based on my own understanding was thrown out after receiving an answer.

Edited by Hemidakota
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I would still say Holy Ghost without knowing more information about God's ways. I think we can call the Godhead, "God". Right?

Godhead = GOD the FATHER, Jesus the Christ (HIS Son), and the Holy Ghost.

What description did Joseph Smith leave us about GOD’s glorified world? What is the purpose of this material to have such properties? Even John spoke of this in Revelation. For the Heavens was open to him to view the Celestial glory.

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Godhead = GOD the FATHER, Jesus the Christ (HIS Son), and the Holy Ghost.

What description did Joseph Smith leave us about GOD’s glorified world? What is the purpose of this material to have such properties? Even John spoke of this in Revelation. For the Heavens was open to him to view the Celestial glory.

Right. This is why as human beings, as you've stated, less than Celestial world with less than Celestial bodies we have to receive communication through the Holy Ghost. The only way to receive direct communication from God is to be transfigured into a Celestial state, like Joseph Smith or Moses etc, even if for a little while. We cannot communicate with God in a direct fashion in our current state. Even prayer is through Jesus and the communication back is through the Holy Ghost.

I know you already know all of that but the point in saying it that way is that we cannot comprehend the Celestial without being in that state. And since we are not in that state all we can do is get the feeling of it or metaphors to it, like describing planets and suns and time etc. Even the Celestial room itself is still not the same as being in the Celestial Kingdom, it is just a glimpse of what it feels like but filtered through our imperfect brains. Any discussion on the purpose of the material is going to be an imperfect description that is out of our grasp to comprehend. ... It's fun to talk about, but there is no way for us to comprehend it enough to state its purpose at all in this world. ... In my opinion.

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To complete the answer. GOD's omnipresent is done by the following that is found in Doctrine and Covenants 130:7-8

3 John 14:23—The appearing of the Father and the Son, in that verse, is a personal appearance; and the idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man's heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false.

4 In answer to the question—Is not the reckoning of God's time, angel's time, prophet's time, and man's time, according to the planet on which they reside?

5 I answer, Yes. But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it.

6 The angels do not reside on a planet like this earth;

7 But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord.

8 The place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim.

9 This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ's.

10 Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known;

11 And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it. The new name is the key word.

How does it work? Read D&C 84:40-41

40 For intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue; light cleaveth unto light; mercy hath compassion on mercy and claimeth her own; justice continueth its course and claimeth its own; judgment goeth before the face of him who sitteth upon the throne and governeth and executeth all things.

41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

One must read and really ponder on what is given in the Doctrine and Covenants 88.

Now, beside the Holy Ghost and those who ministed to this world, GOD can see the Earth in its current state and know what is happening. When ever you hear this simple phrase 'GOD is omnipresent' (omnipresence), remember how it is done by our beloved FATHER instead off stating it.

Edited by Hemidakota
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Here is an observational viewpoint for the LDS members or scholars, if Kolob is a glorified world (Star for the science community) that stands next to GOD’s world, the earth itself when created (last round)stood next to Kolob, and according to President Young, both Adams were in the garden, we are told that the earth was considered to be a terrestrial state. Then what state (glory) is Kolob?

Any scholars?

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VERY IMHO : I sometimes think that those manlike ones that lived before must have been creations of an other god. Why else would it be so important that man would serve only God the Father!? For some time the reminents of those manlike ones lived together with the man... maybe they were not able to choose or maybe they were already goodlike, maybe that is why it says: and gods sons found mans daughters beautiful and married them and the children they got were the supermen and women of the anicent times; as they were half from those powerful manlikes.

But then the flood killed everyone but Noa... and maybe someone else survived... like no one knew about Lehi for such a long time, but not many. Someone said there were a few gigants that survived. Or maybe some tok a space ship to Kolob? :D

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VERY IMHO : I sometimes think that those manlike ones that lived before must have been creations of an other god. Why else would it be so important that man would serve only God the Father!? For some time the reminents of those manlike ones lived together with the man... maybe they were not able to choose or maybe they were already goodlike, maybe that is why it says: and gods sons found mans daughters beautiful and married them and the children they got were the supermen and women of the anicent times; as they were half from those powerful manlikes.

But then the flood killed everyone but Noa... and maybe someone else survived... like no one knew about Lehi for such a long time, but not many. Someone said there were a few gigants that survived. Or maybe some tok a space ship to Kolob? :D

Not that I agree 100 percent but along these lines it does say

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always

strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be

an hundred and twenty years.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and

also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters

of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty

men which were of old, men of renown.

and then in Numbers Chapter 13 of all chapters if you need a hint there

we have

Numbers 13:32 And they brought up an evil report of the land

which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The

land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that

eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw

in it are men of a great stature.

Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak,

which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as

grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Numbers 14:1 And all the congregation lifted up their voice,

and cried; and the people wept that night.

And a descendant of Anak was Killed by David and his head cut off for I believe a reason.

compare to another head that was cut off at another time.

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Now I'm not going to claim that pre-Adamite creatures did not exist on this earth, for which fossils and remains have been found, such as dinosaurs and even humanoid looking creatures. But the scriptures say that Adam was the first man in several places. Whatever they were before Adam, however long ago that was, they are not mankind if they are not the posterity of Adam - if the scriptures are to be believed. From the Book of Moses we learn that "the first man of of all men" is always called Adam, whenever God, through His Only Begotten, creates an earth.

"And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten. And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many." (Moses 1:33-34)

There are those who believe (and they are free to believe this if they want) that mankind evolved from other species of animals. We learn from the scriptures that God brought forth fish, fowl, cattle, beasts, creeping things, and every living creature and commanded them to fill the measure of their creation, and to multiply upon the earth, "each after their kind"; I would ask the question, what were Adam's parents, if not humans? What species are the animals that finally bore a human?

The absurdity implied in the belief that God created mankind upon the face of this earth through the process evolution, by having an animal species ultimately give birth to a human, seems improbable and inconsistent with the scriptures that state that the species are brought forth each after their kind.

I submit that if Adam was created from the dust of this earth, by the process that brought the rest of us into these mortal bodies, in other words birth, it had to be through fully human parents. No other species can produce a human.

Regards,

Vanhin

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I submit that if Adam was created from the dust of this earth, by the process that brought the rest of us into these mortal bodies, in other words birth, it had to be through fully human parents. No other species can produce a human.

Regards,

Vanhin

Why do you say it was by the process that brought the rest of us into these mortal bodies when we know it wasn't. The process changed after the fall. To beget immortal bodies I would think you would need immortal parents and we really don't know how that process is except how it says it is in the Bible.

How is God going to make your immortal body after you die? If He can do it there, He can create a body for Adam and Eve.

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If one were to include all of the writings found at Qumran (Dead Sea Scrolls) or the Nag Hammadi (Gnostic writings), the Bible WOULD be more than a foot thick.

And it still would not include all of the books that at one time were considered sacred, such as the Shepherd of Hermas.

In addition, the texts which are alluded to in other writings but are lost to time, neglect and selective non-inclusion.

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:huh:

What if humans/hominids before Adam were incapable of sin due to a lower level of cognitive development? Did homo erectus possess the mental capacity for sin? If not, then I don't see how he interferes with your God's plan.

Godless, this sound too close to apologetics. Perhaps some further light and wisdom can help us see the truth without this apologetic. Best to concentrate on the souls of the Neanderthals and our own Homo Sapien brothers and sisters.

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Why do you say it was by the process that brought the rest of us into these mortal bodies when we know it wasn't.

You don't know it wasn't, and I didn't say it was. For those who belive God created man by evolution, I was saying that only mankind can beget mankind. In other words, "IF" Adam was born he was born to a man and a woman, not to another species. I was trying to demonstrate that evolution cannot be the way God created Adam.

Regards,

Vanhin

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You don't know it wasn't, and I didn't say it was. For those who belive God created man by evolution, I was saying that only mankind can beget mankind. In other words, "IF" Adam was born he was born to a man and a woman, not to another species. I was trying to demonstrate that evolution cannot be the way God created Adam.

Regards,

Vanhin

Gotcha. I was confused by what you said because in the same sentence you said "by the dust of the earth, ... by birth"

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Gotcha. I was confused by what you said because in the same sentence you said "by the dust of the earth, ... by birth"

Right, because some who subscribe to the evolution idea, believe that is what "from the dust of the earth" means, and ultimately a non-human species would have to beget Adam in order for their theory to be true and the scriptures to be true at the same time - since Adam was the first man. This would mean that Adam's parents were not mankind. It is absurd.

However, even if I was saying what you thought I was saying, it's not out of harmony with what you were saying. :) Adam's immortal parents, would still be "mankind", same species as we are now. We are the same species of being that God is, though He himself is a glorified Man.

Regards,

Vanhin

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my view is that Adam is the first man we have to concern ourselves with, what happened before that is irrelevant

Needle and thread - 15,000 years ago

Bow and arrow - 15,000 years ago

Making fire - 10,000 years ago

Rugs and mats - 25,000 years ago

etc.

Perhaps they are irrelevant to you, but they are not to the rest of mankind.

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