How do you know God exists?

[Vanhin]

When one reached this pinnacle of life, that individual would want others to join them.

I would not call it faith when Moriancumer already knew the voice of the Lord prior to this event. It is more than faith but less than perfect knowledge [witnessing].

I would call it faith, because that is what it was that allowed him to see the finger of the Lord. That's what the Lord said too. So I'm going to stick with that.

And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood; and never has man come before me with such exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so ye could not have seen my finger. (Ether 3:9)

Vanhin, as you stated, it was not perfect knowledge, for perfect knowledge requires witnessing the event. Again, Moriancumer knowledge was only made perfect through witnessing and was added to his edification by seeing Lord's appearance. This is why I stated, this is the latter step beyond knowledge.

You don't have to see something to have a perfect knowledge. That is not in harmony with the scriptures. Knowledge that saves us, comes by the power of the Holy Ghost, as the scriptures and prophets (not authors engaged in priestcraft) teach us.

However I do agree that Christ shows himself to those who have faith in him, who like Mahonri, know already that God exists, though they may not know all things. Moroni concurs.

And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.

For it was by faith that Christ showed himself unto our fathers, after he had risen from the dead; and he showed not himself unto them until after they had faith in him; wherefore, it must needs be that some had faith in him, for he showed himself not unto the world. (Ether 12:6-7)

Alma teaches that regular old people, who only have a desire to believe, can gain perfect knowledge. When the seed has only sprouted, we can perfectly know that it is a good seed.

And now, behold, because ye have tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs know that the seed is good.

And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your mind doth begin to expand. (Alma 32:33-34)

For anyone reading this. Don't be fooled. You don't need to be at some mysterious pinnacle in your life to know that God exists, and you don't have to see Him to know Him. You can know this thing perfectly by the power of the Holy Ghost, through the process that Alma teaches.

Perhaps because of you faith, God will appear to you. That can happen, but if it does not happen in this life, it makes no shred of difference. In the end you will converse with the Lord through the veil, and enter His presence because you have been true and faithful in all things. You will not know any better then than you can know right now, that there is a God.

Regards,

Vanhin

[Hemidakota]

I would call it faith, because that is what it was that allowed him to see the finger of the Lord. That's what the Lord said too. So I'm going to stick with that.

And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood; and never has man come before me with such exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so ye could not have seen my finger. (Ether 3:9)

No problem Vanhin. Using the two method approach vice three method approach [adding witnessing or the reaching the state described – ‘until the PERFECT DAY’-D&C 93]. The three method approach places faith to its simplest form. There is no disagreement here using the two method approach.

You don't have to see something to have a perfect knowledge. That is not in harmony with the scriptures. Knowledge that saves us, comes by the power of the Holy Ghost, as the scriptures and prophets (not authors engaged in priestcraft) teach us.

I don’t how to react here in reading the last sentence but the answers as one of your own link is Alma 32, this is the best one since it is the Savior is talking here on how He achieved it - D&C 93, D&C 130 are the definitions. However, let add something here by Elder Neal A. Maxwell;

Perfect knowledge" in the broadest sense would presumably not be achieved until the perfect day. Until we enter the presence of the Father and the Son. Until we get back our memories of the first estate. But, meanwhile, faith can move on to knowledge in which something is repeatedly and demonstrably proved to be true. For instance, listen to this passage from the Doctrine and Covenants: "When the Savior shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he is a man like ourselves. And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy." (D&C 130:1, 2.) (We Talk of Christ, We Rejoice in Christ by Neal A. Maxwell)

Can you achieve this state Vanhin by what you already stated?

Elder Maxwell continues,

Thus, behaving and knowing do feed upon each other, resulting in what Paul called "the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1.)

Interestingly enough, Orson Pratt wrote, "When God reveals a truth, . . . it is always accompanied by sufficient evidence." (True Faith, Orson Pratt)

For anyone reading this. Don't be fooled. You don't need to be at some mysterious pinnacle in your life to know that God exists, and you don't have to see Him to know Him. You can know this thing perfectly by the power of the Holy Ghost, through the process that Alma teaches.

As we all know from which power this is done through – namely the Holy Ghost. Are we reading into something not being understood? It is clear now; it is by what I am reading. Even to witness the Godhead, this is only done through the Holy Ghost. I think in past post, we butted heads on this issue. I can see why. But no one here, is disagreeing with your statements/links or even the prophets on how this is done, by which power this is done through. It is mere misunderstanding to which goal every member should strive for. But, noting your argumentum here is revealing about your own denial and from past posting. It is true, we can understand who is GOD or HIS beloved Son through the power of the Holy Ghost, but, personally, that is a no. There is a vast difference when studying Joseph Smith life and what was achieved and how it was achieved. This is what is meant to reach a PERFECT DAY as described by both the Savior and Joseph Smith in the D&C. Even Prophet Peter stated the same thing as the prophet Joseph, in Peter 2. Joseph stated, it is the goal [duty] for the Saints to seek out the face of GOD and ensure your election is completed prior to death [paraphrasing].

Even Alma reached the state of ‘a perfect day’ and was translated. This is not done without having his election process done first. No apostle is ever called without witnessing the Savior. Though, they may not talk about it in person; apostle means - a literal witness. This means for all of us, you need the approval of the Godhead through the Holy Ghost who is the presenter. Can you really know the Savior personally without this type of an event?

As to the three birds of prey I posted in another thread, most are hawks, some are Eagles, but only few are Condors. Why? It is us that create our limitations in this mortal probation.

Now, anything I stated, pondering it and research it out. Ask GOD through HIS beloved Son, Jesus the Christ until you receive an answer.

Late Edit notes for others:

p.390 - The Prophet taught that there is an important reason why all faithful saints should receive the blessings of the second Comforter. This reason is that man cannot be saved in ignorance of the divine truth which is communicated to him through the gospel. In referring to the purpose of Christ's ministry to those who make their calling and election sure, the latter-day Seer said: "The Lord will teach him face to face, and he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God." 102 Of communion with angels, he declared: "We may come to an innumerable company of angels, have communion with and receive instructions from them." 103 For the same purpose the faithful may commune with the spirits of just men made perfect. "What would it profit us to come unto the spirits of the just men," Joseph Smith inquired, "but to learn and come up to the standard of their knowledge?" 104 Book learning and knowledge acquired by mere human experience alone will not suffice. 105 "The best way to obtain truth and wisdom is not to ask it from books, but to go to God in prayer, and obtain divine teaching," he explained. 106 "Could you gaze into heaven five minutes, you would know more than you would by reading all that ever was written on the subject." 107 Continuing, he stressed: "I assure the Saints that truth, in reference to these matters, can and may be known through the revelations of God in the way of His ordinances, and in answer to prayer." 108 (Principles of Perfection by Hyrum L. Andrus)

Footnotes:

102. HC, III, p. 381.

103. Ibid., p. 389.

104. Ibid., V, p. 530.

105. In man's effort to acquire truth, the study of books has a place. A revelation explained: "And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith."—D&C 88:118. Because all men do not have the faith which is required to learn through the channel of revelation, the educational process must of necessity begin with the study of good books. By seeking to learn through study and by faith, man may then come to the superior process for acquiring knowledge which the Prophet utilized and advocated.

106. HC, IV, p. 425.

107. Ibid., VI, p. 50.

108. Ibid., p. 51.

109. Ibid., p. 50.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Vanhin]

No problem Vanhin. Using the two method approach vice three method approach [adding witnessing or the reaching the state described – ‘until the PERFECT DAY’-D&C 93]. The three method approach places faith to its simplest form. There is no disagreement here using the two method approach... [and so forth]

Hey Hemidakota,

Thanks for reading and responding to my post.

As Elder Maxwell pointed out, perfect knowledge in the "broadest" sense is not attained until the perfect day. But as Alma pointed out, a perfect knowledge about certain truths can be attained before that time. A perfect knowledge of the reality and existence of God can be attained before that "perfect day", for instance.

That is what this thread is about. The OP can attain for himself the knowledge that there is a God in Heaven. By the power of the Holy Ghost, he can hear the voice of the Lord, like many of us here on these forums have already.

I myself have a perfect knowledge that there is a God in heaven. I don't have a perfect knowledge of everything, but I do know there is a God.

I also have a perfect knowledge that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Son of God. I know this because I strive to live his teachings, and the promised blessings have followed. Through my faith in Christ and His Atonement, I have repented of my sins, and received a remission of my sins. The burden of my sins have been lifted, and my guilt has vanished. So I know with assurety, that Jesus is the Christ. What other proof do I need? The Spirit bears witness to my spirit that He is the Messiah.

Regards,

Vanhin

Edited May 13, 2010 by Vanhin

[Hemidakota]

I know it may sound absurd or perhaps, too arrogant to talk about it. But all we want for each other, is the best that we can ultimately achieve in this life prior to death or resurrection. Gain much as possible in this mortal probation, the farther along we are with Christ in the externalities. This follows the same pursuit that was seen by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who are already moved on and not waiting around for the final judgment. You know, Vanhin, Abraham is the only dispensational prophet who did not pass any keys to Joseph Smith. Another was sent in his place.

Earlier as a convert, I thought having the Holy Ghost (First Comforter) is all that a person really needs to be instructed. Long as we have the faith and works combined, building the kingdom for the Savior, we can increase our testimony and knowledge through time.

In perfecting ourselves, much as possible with the aid of living prophets, apostles, and other brethren in the church, after facing the trials of life and still continue in the gospel, it was then everything that was faith building finally became dormant. What I thought was enough knowledge, was only open to another level of understanding that only comes through the Master Himself. All of this is still done through the merits [power of] of the Holy Ghost. For we need that confirmation of what was given. I have yet in finding any person who met the Savior and not felt the Holy Ghost, confirming the event.

Vanhin, I consider the Holy Ghost a close and personal friend. That is how close I feel about Him. What a neat Brother.

Now, it is not more proof you actually need, but a final sealing act by the Holy Ghost (First Comforter) that will shift the intructional needs to Jesus Christ (called the Second Comforter). This only comes by being a witness. This also means, communication shifts from promptings, feelings, whispering of the Spirit, to now, face-to-face meetings, hearing the Masters voice, and other means He will make available. Our Spirit maturity now grows in leaps and bounds. What is hidden from the world is now personally instructed. What was not doctrine to the masses becomes doctrine to you.

John Taylor explained: "The Gospel embraces principles that dive deeper, spread wider, and extend further than anything else that we can conceive." (see JD Vol. 16, p. 369-370) According to Brigham Young, it also "incorporates every true principle there is in heaven and on earth" into its body of knowledge. George Q. Cannon therefore said: "The Gospel embraces all truth, and there is no truth of any nature or name, whether it be scientific, or moral, or religious, that is not comprehended within the scope of the Gospel of Jesus Christ."

The Savior defined truth as "knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come," The Savior said in a revelation to the Prophet:

The Spirit of truth is of God. I am the Spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth. And no man receiveth a fulness unless he keepeth his commandments. He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things (see D&C 93:24, 26-28.)

This view is reflected in a statement by the Prophet. In discussing the Second Comforter (Jesus Christ), Joseph first spoke of man making his calling and election sure. "After a person . . . receives the Holy Ghost, (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter," Joseph explained, "then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son thou shalt be exalted." This is the guarantee of eternal life. The Prophet continued: "When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints." (History of the Church, p.380)

At this point, we finally reached the level that is called 'the Perfect Day'; our knowledge is perfected in the Godhead. Our access to Godhead and other ministering beings becomes now a ritual. Instructions are now personal and have a deeper meaning. Even to the point, we will come to that knowledge of our pre-mortal status and what is our post-mortal tasking.

[Now reverting back to the two method principle – FAITH & KNOWLEDGE] Joseph taught that those who acquire true faith, like Enoch, the brother of Jared, and Moses, obtain power with God "to behold him face to face." He stated;

“All things were in subjection to the Former-day Saints, according as their faith was. By their faith they could obtain heavenly visions, the ministering of angels, have knowledge of the spirits of just men made perfect, of the general assembly and church of the first born, whose names are written in heaven, of God the judge of all, of Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and become familiar with the third heavens, see and hear things which were not only unutterable, but were unlawful to utter.”

Andrus Hyrum stated, Joseph repeatedly taught that as a product of true faith, in Christ, the blessings of the second Comforter constitute a major objective of the gospel. A revelation he received states that since the Melchizedek Priesthood administers the gospel and holds "the key of the knowledge of God," its purpose is to bring the Saints to the point of spiritual union with Christ which will enable them to receive the second Comforter. (see D&C 84:19-22) Another revelation on this point explained:

"The power and authority of the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood, is to hold the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the church—to have the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, to have the heavens opened unto them, to commune with the general assembly and church of the Firstborn, and to enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant." (see D&C 107:18-19)

To attain the highest order within the celestial kingdom, in the resurrection a man must receive the Second Comforter (Jesus Christ), either in this life or in the spirit world after death.

It was stated in a revelation that those who are "sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise" become celestial beings in the resurrection, and that they constitute the church of the Firstborn. (See D&C 76:53-54) Speaking of this class of beings in the resurrection, the revelation stressed:

"These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn." (see D&C 76:67)

The phrase 'These are they who "have come,..." , noting the verb usage here, means completed action. Before the resurrection, they have matured in the gospel to the point of communing with beings who reside above the veil. Having met the challenge of returning to the presence of God, they therefore will inherit celestial glory in the resurrection.

What is our goal after we enter into the fullness of the priesthood? Seeking the face of GOD. This is man’s (woman’s) ultimate goal in the gospel.

[Vanhin]

That's cool Hemi. Thanks for sharing. However, one can know for sure that God exists without seeing him in this life. The truth is, we have all already seen him.

Regards,

Vanhin

[Snow]

Let me ask you a question. Have you ever truly repented of your sins, and felt like you were forgiven?

Regards,

Vanhin

Absolutely. I just don't equate feelings, no matter how convincing, as knowledge. Their feelings/

[Vanhin]

Absolutely. I just don't equate feelings, no matter how convincing, as knowledge. Their feelings/

Thanks. Were your sins actually forgiven? What I mean is, did faith in Christ and full repentance work for you like the scriptures teach that it should? Was the burden of your guilt lifted?

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[anim82r]

Actually I was going to add that. But I was just afraid it will be too deep for Curtis. I was thinking of sharing the experience of the Brother of Jared where Moroni recorded, "and he had faith no more for he knew". Because he had seen the Lord even before He was born. I totally agree with you Hem.

The Lord himself declared, "blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God". Bruce R. McConckie supported that by saying that that promise can and will actually happen in this mortal realm if one is ready. That the Saints have the right to behold the Glory of God if they are worthy while in the mortal flesh, again emphasizing the experience of the Brother of Jared. Joseph Smith said that, "all Latter-Day Saints may know what Joseph (naming himself) have known if they are prepared".

[anim82r]

I would not agree with number 4; one can received a confirmation or be instructed by the Holy Ghost and call it knowledge. I had to add this step called 'witnessing' as a latter step to knowledge or above it.

---> DOUBT - BELIEF - FAITH - KNOWLEDGE - WITNESSING

Actually I was going to add that. But I was just afraid it will be too deep for Curtis. I was thinking of sharing the experience of the Brother of Jared where Moroni recorded, "and he had faith no more for he knew". Because he had seen the Lord even before He was born. I totally agree with you Hem.

The Lord himself declared, "blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God". Bruce R. McConckie supported that by saying that that promise can and will actually happen in this mortal realm if one is ready. That the Saints have the right to behold the Glory of God if they are worthy while in the mortal flesh, again emphasizing the experience of the Brother of Jared. Joseph Smith said that, "all Latter-Day Saints may know what Joseph (naming himself) have known if they are prepared". I may not have hit that as verbatimly as I should but it did sound like that. Reading your other post or reply to Curtis I'm convinced you have the same thing as what I have in mind. I just did not think it was time to share it. But I'm not saying what you did was wrong. I'm saying you probably have more gutts than I do:D

[Vanhin]

"We are then ready to ask our Heavenly Father sincerely, in the name of our Savior, Jesus Christ, if the things we have learned are true. Most of us will not see God, as the prophets have, but the still, small promptings of the Spirit—the thoughts and feelings that the Holy Ghost brings into our minds and hearts—will give us an undeniable knowledge that He lives and that He loves us.

Gaining this knowledge is ultimately the quest of all God’s children on the earth. If you cannot remember believing in God or if you have ceased to believe or if you believe but without real conviction, I invite you to seek a testimony of God now. Do not be afraid of ridicule. The strength and peace that come from knowing God and having the comforting companionship of His Spirit will make your efforts eternally worthwhile." (Elder Robert D. Hales, LDS.org - Ensign Article - Seeking to Know God, Our Heavenly Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ)

I can find quote after quote from prophets and apostles, and from the scriptures, that say the same thing. You don't have to see to know something.

Regards,
Vanhin

[Hemidakota]

Actually I was going to add that. But I was just afraid it will be too deep for Curtis. I was thinking of sharing the experience of the Brother of Jared where Moroni recorded, "and he had faith no more for he knew". Because he had seen the Lord even before He was born. I totally agree with you Hem.

The Lord himself declared, "blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God". Bruce R. McConckie supported that by saying that that promise can and will actually happen in this mortal realm if one is ready.

That the Saints have the right to behold the Glory of God if they are worthy while in the mortal flesh, again emphasizing the experience of the Brother of Jared. Joseph Smith said that, "all Latter-Day Saints may know what Joseph (naming himself) have known if they are prepared".

I may not have hit that as verbatimly as I should but it did sound like that. Reading your other post or reply to Curtis I'm convinced you have the same thing as what I have in mind. I just did not think it was time to share it. But I'm not saying what you did was wrong. I'm saying you probably have more gutts than I do:D

When death door’s approaches, you begin to be more open to other Saints that holds possibilities. Pushing forward is the concept that most need to accept versus being dormant with the current level of testimony. If we think our testimony level is ok, then there is a problem. Never be totally satisfied until one reaches that perfect day.

We never truly know GOD personally, being outside of HIS presences. There is no other way around it. It should be always our goal that I described in my lengthy posting that Joseph preach to the Saints before his death. Even then, they were not ready for it. Only a handful of Saints followed his council. One of them, I was quite surprise was Clayton. Fortunate for Clayton, being in accompany of Joseph while attending the Kirtland Temple. Its there, the conduits of Heavens open, both GOD and Christ appeared to them. It was there, both of them received that sealing of promise. Some Saints still believe it happened in the woods (see The First Vision). However, that is not the case. He was still a servant and not a friend. There are notable differences of titles roles given by the Lord throughout the D&C.

Last, there are many more doctrines that the Saints during Joseph life could not accept. Even today, it still has not change. It requires one to receive the same pattern given to both Joseph and Brother Clayton before this is open to that individual.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Snow]

Thanks. Were your sins actually forgiven? What I mean is, did faith in Christ and full repentance work for you like the scriptures teach that it should? Was the burden of your guilt lifted?

Sincerely,

Vanhin

I am not burdened with feelings of guilt. That an invisible god supernaturally removed the burden is a matter of faith, not knowledge.

[Intrigued]

Well, I hear you. Each case is different.

However, if an individual casts the seed aside because of their unbelief, then the experiment ends. How can you expect the desired result if you end the experiment prematurely?

If you have not cast the seed aside, and have planted it in your heart, and you nourish it and allow it to grow, then it will grow - if it is a good seed. I'm not talking about Mormonism alone, I'm talking about anything that claims to be truth. In this case more specifically, about the existence of God. But let's take a smaller step than that to begin with.

But that is exactly what I am talking about. There are a few reasons the seed would not grow.. and not to sound rude.. most of them are subjective. Alma stated that you simply needed a desire to believe and the only mention of time was basically 'until it works'. For the apologist it's far to simple to say 'you did not try long enough', 'you did not have an earnest desire', or 'you did something wrong'? Are any of those statements unbiased.. at all?

• You ended the experiment prematurely
• If you did not cast it aside
• If you did not plant it in your heart (earnest desire?)
• You did not nourish it
• If it is not a good seed (what does this mean, anyways?)

It seems to me that what it effectively says is 'if you did not get the same results as I did you must have done something wrong'. It ends up being a complex maze of excuses.. and what kind of God would play hide and seek like that?

What is something moral or good that you subscribe to?

Regards,

Vanhin

To do good to your fellow man.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Intrigued

[Mahdi]

In the name of God

there are plenty of book about " God's existance" in persian language.
but unfortunately u can't read the.
here is one of these sites:
کتابها

[HiJolly]

But that is exactly what I am talking about. There are a few reasons the seed would not grow.. and not to sound rude.. most of them are subjective.

What's wrong with subjective reasons? Are you not a human, with a conscious, as well as a sub-conscious, mind? How, then, can a subjective reason not be valid?

To do good to your fellow man.

Good stuff.

Do not do things to others, that you would not want done to you. The whole point of the "Axial Age", or religious transformation. -- Karen Armstrong

HiJolly

[Intrigued]

What's wrong with subjective reasons? Are you not a human, with a conscious, as well as a sub-conscious, mind? How, then, can a subjective reason not be valid?

I am. I said it was subjective.. because for example.. you should not be able to say that I did not nourish the seed long enough, etc. It's a no-lose promise for Alma.. if it works he was obviously correct. If the experiment fails, however, the person doing the experiment must be the one who failed. That's not a 'real' experiment at all. That's my point.

Do not do things to others, that you would not want done to you. The whole point of the "Axial Age", or religious transformation. -- Karen Armstrong

great quote

[Snow]

What's wrong with subjective reasons? Are you not a human, with a conscious, as well as a sub-conscious, mind? How, then, can a subjective reason not be valid?

Is that a serious question?

I think you are an octopus. Granted, I base my opinion on a subjective feeling rather than an objective review of the facts, but you're still an octopus.

Make a little more sense now?

[Islander]

I am. I said it was subjective.. because for example.. you should not be able to say that I did not nourish the seed long enough, etc. It's a no-lose promise for Alma.. if it works he was obviously correct. If the experiment fails, however, the person doing the experiment must be the one who failed. That's not a 'real' experiment at all. That's my point.

great quote

You failed to see that it is ONLY an experiment for you. Many already have done their experiment so the process is well documented. If your outcome is different, it is obvious the flaw is in the process as far as you applied it.

[Moksha]

Maybe this wisdom from the Buddha's Kalama Sutta may help:

"Kalamas, when you yourselves find: 'These things are good; these things are praiseworthy; these things are practiced by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to happiness and contentment, embrace them."

Edited May 16, 2010 by Moksha
embarrassed by spelling

[Angelagiftedgirl]

When I was very young, a toddler, I dreamed of God, even before anyone told me who God was. Now, I feel God answers my prayers. Plus, I believe the scriptures, the words of the prophets. I feel the voice and warmth of God.

[HiJolly]

Is that a serious question?

I think you are an octopus. Granted, I base my opinion on a subjective feeling rather than an objective review of the facts, but you're still an octopus.

Make a little more sense now?

Was that a rhetorical question?

One would assume that you would apply a modicum of intelligence to the issue....

HiJolly

[Still_Small_Voice]

When I was very young, a toddler, I dreamed of God, even before anyone told me who God was. Now, I feel God answers my prayers. Plus, I believe the scriptures, the words of the prophets. I feel the voice and warmth of God.

That is a very good spiritual gift you have been given.

[Moksha]

I think you are an octopus. Granted, I base my opinion on a subjective feeling rather than an objective review of the facts, but you're still an octopus.

One's marine life should not be an issue here!

:)

[Hemidakota]

Maybe Snow is bias against Marine life?

[Hemidakota]

In the name of God

there are plenty of book about " God's existance" in persian language.

but unfortunately u can't read the.

here is one of these sites:

کتابها

I am always curious, what is the understanding of one rises to the seventh heaven? Is this not the first state of the Celestial glory [3 main states in each glory identified by Paul and Joseph Smith]?