Young Single Adult Theory

[Obolus]

deleted.

Edited November 15, 2011 by Obolus

[kayne]

i'd like to add my two cents as a newly joined forum member.

i went a bit inactive when i turned 18....sure not the only reason i did but one was probably the strange transition from youth to adult in the church. a lot of people my age leaving and a good number going to the YSA on top of im 18 i have no clue what the heck i really feel like doing in my life. probably id of been more comfortable as the YSA(the only one within a 200 mile radius) had not existed and i could go to church get the spirtual end of it and still interact with people older,younger and my age that i had known forever whether i was close or not anybody in this age group is irrelevant ive simply known these people forever im comfortable with them they are part of my social circle my family.

well fast forward stumbled back to church 5 years later....then about 9 months before i moved out here to prove i tried out the singles ward. it was a pretty amazing ward. it mixed a little bit with the family ward. i still had my own family ward which home teached and visited teached so i saw them. and overall it a good mix of people my age and people i had known forever.

now go through those 9 months where i really did enjoy church at that singles ward....now here in provo,utah. we have these endless amount of singles wards. the pressure is on to date. theres no real family...just a fake kind of proxy family. it just feels like an empty shell. i feel like im missing something.

perhaps im missing the older people? perhaps im missing playing with kids running around? im not the most social person in the world i am a bit anti social but i am famous for and was hardly the only one that could usually find a few older people i got along with amazingly well a few kids as well and a few in my own age group. now its your own age group.....HAVE FUN oh and ya get married while your at it.....whats worse is the way to leave a singles ward is turn 31 oh yay an age limit.....or get married. its a poor way to exit a ward and ultimately just serves to further full the real purpose get married. heck i had no desires to rush getting married but since being out here not even a year its just like the pressure feels on the hook up.

it does help that i finally have 2 roommates that will goto church with me. but they are both leaving in august when the contract is up and one to get married. this being another point people moving in an out constantly negates the whole chance to really form a solid friendship.

which brings me to how i was originally. going to church alone in a singles ward and not really the most social person in the world.....forced to really compete find friends and oh yes date.

a prime example of this mentality is this girl i was talking too....i simply wanted to hang out. to wish the reply was im not interested in dating anyone right now well not before i got her number and called her a few times and i guess two weeks later it was oh i dont want to date. of course i never said lets date. lets hang out a difference. but of course whatever friendship was there or could of been is killed simply because all guys want to date girls and vice versa and not real middle ground almost as if male and females cant be friends unless dating is somehow an option or a possiblitiy. i suspect the real reason here is as she said she was contemplating a mission so didnt want to date which i guess is good being attracted to people like that. but probably illustrates she was slightly interested in me which can be taken a plus. but still further illustrates the whole we are there to socialize and date mentality.

this mentality also hits on a another point....how many lessons in the church manuals are about families? how many get taught at a singles ward and due to a total lack of families....cannot relate too them too much outside of oh ya while i was growing up my mom said this or my brother did this? really its like half the lessons are lost if not more id wager all the lessons lose a certain point to them as the entire gospel of Christ is first and foremost the family.

while my story probably represents a you suck im mad mentality it does fully summarize whats expected here. to somehow make friends and then somehow date and get married and somehow emulate that family like experience Christ wishes us to have....it really just doesnt work. and singles wards are so chaotic you dont get a true connection with your bishop. now add in the ridiculous raging hormones of the dating world....and well quite frankly weve staged the invasion of normandy.

and id agree YSA need the elders and children as well the elders and children need the YSA its all part of the cycle of life.

overall i went from what was an amazing hybrid of the two plus given the fact it was the only singles ward within 200 miles so everyone was a lot closer to provo utah for the "amazing byu like" experience of mostly some fake family proxy experience. really i have fond memories of the singles ward from my home city....here? not so much. i go through motions and quite frankly had my testimony not been made amazing back home....out here id likely be inactive.

hey i love the church i know its true but the singles ward scene is horrid. church is supposed to be a family and quite frankly this isnt really a family. i goto some events to socialize but thats it...thats the purpose. the purpose of institute isnt learn about God. its check out that possible date. the point of munch and mingle isnt churchy its mating. the point of break the fast is again mating. FHE....again mating. and id add ward prayer? what the heck is that? lame excuse to socialize for like 5 minutes. thats what that is with some cheap "message" tacked on for good measure. granted it was a good message and what i needed to hear today but overall like everything else felt tacked on.

almost none of the singles wards activities have i seen that have been about Christ so much as about hooking up. thats it.

i think if it was about Christ most than anything hooking up would fall in line naturally because Christ wants you to hook up. in fact if you are a faithful follower you will eventually naturally hook up. add this to the confusing media about dating and the endless online dating sites and really weve taken the simple message of Christ and families and distorted it into lets throw young adults to the lions hope in the process of running from the lions they pair up because only then will we open the doors of shelter for them. or if they just run and never pair up well i guess well open the doors of shelter for them but then well laugh and mock them HAHA loser 31 years old not married what a failure.

and that my friends is the cold hard truth. singles ward is about dating. everything else comes second. and i do mean everything else especially here in provo.

[Obolus]

Kayne, thanks for responding. I agree with many of your points. It seems that some outside of the "Mormon corridor" (Idaho, Utah, Arizona, and California) tend to have good experiences in their singles wards like yourself. But the high YSA population centers can be very alienating.

The church should be about making people feel like they belong to Christ. Fragmenting the sheep into separate folds does not really help in that department.

[kayne]

Kayne, thanks for responding. I agree with many of your points. It seems that some outside of the "Mormon corridor" (Idaho, Utah, Arizona, and California) tend to have good experiences in their singles wards like yourself. But the high YSA population centers can be very alienating.

The church should be about making people feel like they belong to Christ. Fragmenting the sheep into separate folds does not really help in that department.

thanks i would add something else someone just told me. hes going to be an english major and he does say a vast majority of the girls just go into english as means of waiting to get married. that is really the mentality here.

and another thing i know im evil im not a return missionary but there is a certain stigma of i want a return missionary mentality. nobodys said it to my face but nearly all stories are when i was on a mission. or where did you go on a mission. its certainly a stigma that exists and falls straight into the girls waiting to get married so passing time in college mentality.

it really is as you say mormon not in utah is entirely different from mormon in utah.

another bad thing that hasnt been mentioned here is a lot of people goto church just to socialize. they arent converted. they dont even care. they go just because friends go which really hurts the wards. where as in a non utah area if your mormon you better make **** sure you really want to be mormon so people ultimatelly have a strong faith because of it....not say people here are weak as some are quite strong but as a general rule its like this.

[Obolus]

Well, I feel like we've trained many singles to think of Church as primarily a social apparatus. It's easy for Christ to become the subtext when all the members of the opposite sex in Sacrament meeting are potential mates.

That's what happens when you remove the married people and teens from view on Sundays. Instead of the natural man being checked at the door, he is invited to participate.

[kayne]

Well, I feel like we've trained many singles to think of Church as primarily a social apparatus. It's easy for Christ to become the subtext when all the members of the opposite sex in Sacrament meeting are potential mates.

That's what happens when you remove the married people and teens from view on Sundays. Instead of the natural man being checked at the door, he is invited to participate.

thats true. very true. basic biological instincts tend to kick in. of course this makes making friends of the opposite sex for anything other than being a mate nigh impossible at least to any meaningful level.

i do agree and do wonder what it'd be like if the flood of YSA were thrown into regular normal family wards.

[Obolus]

i do agree and do wonder what it'd be like if the flood of YSA were thrown into regular normal family wards.

You can ask any member over 60 about what it would be like. If they didn't attend BYU, they spent their YSA years as part of normal wards. Instead of the YSA system they had singles activities on the stake and multi-stake level.

It was apparently pretty successful at marrying plenty of them off. Plus they got all the benefits of being members of a normal religious community. Those YSAs enjoyed the best of both worlds. It's too bad that program wasn't preserved. The current program treats the entire USA as if it were Provo.

[kayne]

You can ask any member over 60 about what it would be like. If they didn't attend BYU, they spent their YSA years as part of normal wards. Instead of the YSA system they had singles activities on the stake and multi-stake level.

It was apparently pretty successful at marrying plenty of them off. Plus they got all the benefits of being members of a normal religious community. Those YSAs enjoyed the best of both worlds. It's too bad that program wasn't preserved. The current program treats the entire USA as if it were Provo.

ya your right im sure there would be no problem getting married if we were thrown into a normal family ward. it really is a your not complete until your married mentality. i dont know why anybody doesnt see this? or maybe they do and they just shut up and dont say anything?

ya a sad truth. though im going to UVU not BYU. but still kind of get lumped into it. though ive certainly heard BYU has a strange culture to it. men cant have any facial hair. an extremely strict mormon life style is enforced. and certainly if your not mormon your an outcast. it all seems like a receipe for disaseter(spelling?). my 2 sisters said was pretty bad at BYU and since coming out ive certainly heard its pretty bad there. the entire culture is a bit whacko.

i mean im mormon and i feel a bit like an outcast cause somehow i feel like i got a different version of the same thing.

i dunno i certainly dont think utah is the all mighty strength of this church as its heralded to be. the opposition to it is defently winning. unless i got a church call out here i cant see a compelling reason to live in this atmosphere

[Obolus]

My friend, You should keep a more positive outlook. Don't get caught up in the negatives of the YSA system or Utah/Provo in general to the point where it paralyzes you. Being Mormon does indeed make you a part of a crazy religion. But there is also an undeniable beauty about what we are.

There are a lot of great people in Utah, and at BYU. But no matter where you live, "gold" must be dug up with effort. You have to be sincere and show some vulnerability in order to discover the same in others, and it takes time. Yes, things aren't perfect there, but walking around with a chip on your shoulder just does more damage. There will always be those around who will offend you, both in and out of Mormonism. That's just life.

Regarding your sisters, there are a lot of students that have a difficult time at BYU. And there are a lot of problems there because of the Honor Code. But despite the whacko culture, it is an incredible school that gives a lot of people unbelievable opportunities. It's certainly not a perfect school, but when you consider it's position amidst the other available schools in this country, BYU is pretty remarkable. It embraces higher learning while simultaneously setting itself against the current of most universities who basically see it as their duty to "cure" people of their faith in God. The school and its professors/students deserve a lot of credit for that.

[kayne]

oh im far from angry or pissed about it or sad. just pointing out the some flaws in the YSA theory as this thread so bluntly puts it. and considering i probably am in a minority of people willing to voice that particular opinion well posting it on a message board is my little way of venting it.

oh im sure there are plenty of great people here. probably plenty of great people in any area you might visit. and i have nothing against BYU in general. its a fine school and you do make a fine point about it having a high reputation while not being anti-God just the general culture here i havent been a huge fan of. not to say im going to piss moan and cry about it but doesnt mean i have to exactly love it either.

just saying its bearable and i intend to finish what i started out here. but the place hasnt exactly grown on me just yet. i suppose its more ironic im not entirely extremely close to my family and i more miss them than anything else lolz figures.

my biggest problem is i have a bit of an anti social nature so it takes me a little while to warm up to people. and i certainly dont do great in large crowds. im not mad im anti social by nature or anything just stating it can take me a little while to warm up to people. and oh what the hell were on a message board annouymously. ill take your two cents on this.

alot of my past is certainly rooted in a ridiculous amount of psycho stuff. suicidal tendancies some drugs even failed at running away. you could certainly say i have been a handful. furthermore apparently sometime in my pre life i earned the gift of visions so my testimony is largely rooted on that particular fact. its also rooted on Satan attempting to kill me in my sleep probably like 10 000 times. hell i have the pleasure or misery of feeling the pains of a damned soul.

unfortunently however a lot of visions especially me in the future are on a context of dont just go blabbing this everywhere for various reasons which are again im not allowed to say of course there are a number of past ones that are probably fair game. but i know how it will all come across as psycho crazy and of course i might even get hit with the old only the prophet gets dreams. true he gets dreams for the entire church mine are solely about me and me only or maybe someone around me but generally speaking its centered on me i mean if one was im going to be in a car crash turn left instead of right well if your with me at the time obviously that dream will entail you by default. ive never gotten one for the whole church and of course i know what that is.

of course a problem here is i generally have to keep this particular side of my hidden. it is my chip on my shoulder. so i never really am myself. not that ive never told anyone but by and large not like anyone ever really believes. not even my friend who was right there and saw Satan face to face. heck should of seen the dream i got that was instructions to convince my parents im not full of crap. so its not like i have a history of anyone really believing me to much. so as a result really a large part of what defines me as me is forced to be hidden. so im never really myself and tack that onto my anti social nature....and well i dont meet new people too well.

so of course i feel detached a bit more because well my testimony is rooted in this. most of my experiences are rooted in this. and they all get muddled together and i dont want to just go saying too much. so of course i keep myself a bit shut in and i havent really a clue how to keep half of myself shut in and mingle properly without kind of lieing which i'd prefer not too. it just makes it rough to find anyone to really relate to. and its not like the gift of visions is the most common thing in the world that i know of. im sure more than just prophets get it but just saying i cant see it being that entirely common.

so i guess thats my main problem relating to people when the core of me is kept hidden. i mean dont get me wrong im not bitter about this or angry about it just saying it can be a little rough interacting and getting to know people when myself is hidden. i mean theres more to me than simply that but it is a rather large part of me. especially in a whole bearing testimony atomsphere mine is is this. again im not really bitter or anything about im glad about it quite frankly id be lost without it. just saying i havent entirely found how to interact with people and still hide half of myself or more especially when most will probably just pass me off as nuts which convincing people of this isnt exactly my priority right now.

sorry for the rant just figured i'd get your two cents on it or vent it out on a forum that likely wont delete my post as trolling.

[Obolus]

Well, I definitely think visions are real. But you are right not to share that with everyone. You can't really have community without privacy, and that's your private side. It should only be shared with those you trust the most.

But everyone has a private side. And whether people want to admit it or not, we all are in thrall to certain demons. And that's not a metaphor. This is why Jesus spent some time addressing possession in the Bible. Of particular interest is Chapter 9 of Luke where Jesus is refused by the Samaritans and in response James & John ask Jesus if they should call down fire from heaven to consume them. In verses 55-56 Jesus responds:

"But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them."

This shows that even apostles were subject to possession. In fact, all sin is a result of possession. Through the natural man, we give our bodies over to malefactors on the other side of the veil and allow them to act in our name. In this way, all sin is slavery. We trade in the Light of Christ within us to exert some temporary power here in mortality.

Of course LDS people often don't like to look at it this way because a) they don't like to invite the presence of the adversary and b) they don't like to admit that they aren't in control of their lives. But every time we lie, cheat or steal, we sell our souls out... we sell something that doesn't belong to us. My advice to you is to study the Lord's encounters with possessions and to continue to seek counsel from your bishop and professional LDS counselors.

Some of your visions may be from God. But perhaps not all of them.