Charcter and personality of Satan

[Javajot]

Not believing in Ole Scratch doesn't make me any less saved.

No, but it makes you deceived and vulnerable.

2nd Nephi 28 verse 22:

And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance.

[Snow]

Rather than being a sarcastic individual, why not share your knowledge of Satan as you know it?

Methinks your rotten personality on these threads is a defense mechanism for ignorance.

BTW...snow...For a cat who according to you can't do bupkis, how was he able to tempt Christ?

Go away little boy. You bother me.

[martybess]

Teachings of Harold B. Lee

If the Lord's work goes on vacation, Satan thrives. Whenever the work of the Lord goes on vacation, that is when the power of Satan's program is put in full play and the substitute organizations for the Lord's work have their great innings to win the Lord's people away from His church.

The devil never sleeps; his work never lags; and this organization must not slacken in our effort if we [hope to] do the work that our Heavenly Father has set us up to do. (49-03, p. 255)

Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball

Satan tempts us at our weak points. The adversary is so smart and subtle that he takes every man in his own game. The man whose weakness is money will be led inch by inch and yard by yard and mile by mile into that area where his wants can be satisfied. If one's ambition is power, the evil one knows exactly how to build him up to that point. If one's weakness is sex, Satan in his erudition and experience and brilliance knows a thousand reasons why sex may be liberated to run rampant and express itself and satisfy itself. Lucifer is real. He is subtle. He is convincing. He is powerful. (2/28/66)

Kimball, Spencer W.TP151Having been reared on the farm, I know that when the pigs got out, I looked first for the holes through which they had previously escaped. When the cow was out of the field looking for greener pastures elsewhere, I knew where to look first for the place of her escape. It was most likely to be the place where she had jumped the fence before, or where the fence had been broken. Likewise, the devil knows where to tempt, where to put in his telling blows. He finds the vulnerable spot. Where one was weak before, he will be most easily tempted again. (MF 171)

Kimball, Spencer W.TP151The adversary is subtle; he is cunning, he knows that he cannot induce good men and women immediately to do major evils so he moves slyly, whispering half-truths until he has his intended victims following him, and finally he clamps his chains upon them and fetters them tight, and then he laughs at their discomfiture and their misery. (67-09)

Kimball, Spencer W.TP151And the Savior said that the very elect would be deceived by Lucifer if it were possible. He will use his logic to confuse and his rationalizations to destroy. He will shade meanings, open doors an inch at a time, and lead from purest white through all the shades of gray to the darkest black. (80-53)

[Snow]

Do you consider references to Satan/Lucifer in the scriptures to be allegorical? Representing base human nature or what have you?

For the record I take it on faith that Satan/Lucifer is an extent being who rebelled in the premortal life and tempts us [though to what extent I don't know] but I'm less critical of scriptures and other dogma than you. This isn't a rebuttal (i. e. Well, yeah! I believe this!) but just to be perfectly clear of where I am coming from.

I'd say the same thing. I accept your view as stated here. Accepting a demonic power that has the ability to control mind and material is another matter. I think the notion of Satan that most people have in their heads - even Mormons, is a product of mythology, literature, superstition and culture.

[Snow]

No, but it makes you deceived and vulnerable.

2nd Nephi 28 verse 22:

And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance.

I should very much like to see some evidence of that. Am I, Snow, any more or any less vulnerable than you? Actually, am I more sinful than you?

It's easy enough to say that your belief in Mephistophilius raises your cholesterol. Providing evidence for it, however, is another matter.

[SLC2002GOLD]

Go away little boy. You bother me.

Still here, and thanks for the advice...but like your personality it's vapid...

[Snow]

Still here, and thanks for the advice...but like your personality it's vapid...

Seriously - go pester someone else.

[MarginOfError]

I'm not sure what the mechanism is by which Satan tempts mankind, but I imagine it's quite similar to the mechanism that God uses to inspire mankind. We often talk about the Holy Ghost communicating with us to prompt us or to confirm truth. However the Holy Ghost makes such communications is probably the same method by which Satan tempts us.

But I couldn't tell you what the mechanism is.

As for the statements that we shouldn't seek to understand the personality of Satan, I have to call rubbish. When I read such statements as have been given I see counsel not to open doors that would make it easier for Satan to reach us. Understanding his personality doesn't open those doors. In fact, understanding the selfish, self-promoting, and blasphemous parts of Satan's personality can be very helpful in instilling a desire to ignore his promptings.

[MarginOfError]

I take it from your post, you've not taken out your Endowments?

In the ceremony Lucifer is address and we learn much from it.

There's really no need for this kind of condescension here.

[Seminarysnoozer]

:)

... and seriously, I wonder if anyone can tell me how Satan tempts.

Person after person says that he does but I'd like to know HOW...

He slowly decreases the density of GABAa receptors in the orbitofrontal nuclei of the brain making it difficult to properly modulate Limbic inputs. This in turn makes a person more likely to use profanity, steal, confabulate, hypersexual and most important selfish.

He may also enhance neuronal excitability of the amygdala making a person more emotional labile, in particular enhancing anger and fear. ... but I'm not sure about that one.

Just kidding of course. But one thing that we are told is that he doesn't have direct influence on our spirits. He has to be invited to have influence and that invitation may come in the form of not controlling carnal or natural drives and in turn causing the above mentioned changes.

[Moksha]

Lucifer is address

Turns out his address can be found right in the middle of the Bohemian Grove. Otherwise, mentioning Temple content seems unwise.

[Javajot]

Am I, Snow, any more or any less vulnerable than you? Actually, am I more sinful than you?

I don't know snow, are you more sinful than I? You tell me. What kind of question is that anyway? Some kind of flamebait that you are hoping I will take?

As far a vulnerability goes: If Satan has you convinced that he doesn't exist then further deceiving and tempting is all that much easier for him. If you are aware of his real existence and tactics it is that much easier to recognize them from afar and parry them. Spiritual discernment helps a lot in this too.

[FunkyTown]

Spiritual discernment is important. I also would recommend ignoring Snow. Approximately a year ago, I did a search on him and his posts and didn't see a single post that wasn't argumentative, insulting and rude. And there were twenty pages of posts. All of them fights he'd picked. Not one normal post in 20 pages. You can safely ignore him.

I'm not calling him an ignorant troll who doesn't provide anything to this website.

That would be against the terms and conditions on this website.

Instead, I'm only saying that I haven't read anything he's written since then and I'm happier for it.

I don't know snow, are you more sinful than I? You tell me. What kind of question is that anyway? Some kind of flamebait that you are hoping I will take?

As far a vulnerability goes: If Satan has you convinced that he doesn't exist then further deceiving and tempting is all that much easier for him. If you are aware of his real existence and tactics it is that much easier to recognize them from afar and parry them. Spiritual discernment helps a lot in this too.

[Hemidakota]

How many people have seen this brother in person?

[Seminarysnoozer]

I'm not sure what the mechanism is by which Satan tempts mankind, but I imagine it's quite similar to the mechanism that God uses to inspire mankind. We often talk about the Holy Ghost communicating with us to prompt us or to confirm truth. However the Holy Ghost makes such communications is probably the same method by which Satan tempts us.

But I couldn't tell you what the mechanism is.

As for the statements that we shouldn't seek to understand the personality of Satan, I have to call rubbish. When I read such statements as have been given I see counsel not to open doors that would make it easier for Satan to reach us. Understanding his personality doesn't open those doors. In fact, understanding the selfish, self-promoting, and blasphemous parts of Satan's personality can be very helpful in instilling a desire to ignore his promptings.

The mechanism, at least the final common pathway, is very different, I think. Satan's input ultimately has to reach us via physical being sensory information whereas God can communicate directly with our spirit. I don't think Satan can use the same methods the Holy Ghost does. Satan does not have access to our spirits other than what can be accessed through our physical being, if we let him. This is why most of Christ' ministry is focused on controlling body passions. Even before he started his ministry he fasted for 40 days, overcoming physical demands so he could be "full of the spirit." Our communication with the Holy Ghost is more pure, less static so to speak, when it is not mixed with demands from the body. This is why we have to be quiet to listen to the spirit or why fasting helps with that communication. Whereas the more one feeds their carnal nature, loud music, lots of food, sexual passions etc the louder Satan's communication becomes.

[Javajot]

Spiritual discernment is important. I also would recommend ignoring Snow. Approximately a year ago, I did a search on him and his posts and didn't see a single post that wasn't argumentative, insulting and rude. And there were twenty pages of posts. All of them fights he'd picked. Not one normal post in 20 pages. You can safely ignore him.

I'm not calling him an ignorant troll who doesn't provide anything to this website.

That would be against the terms and conditions on this website.

Instead, I'm only saying that I haven't read anything he's written since then and I'm happier for it.

I haven't been on this forum long. I am a member of other forums, work and hobby related and what not, and to tell you the truth in my somewhat limited time here he is the first person that I have met on any forum that I have thought about adding to an "ignore" list. And he managed to do that in less than a week.

snow = ignored.

That's hilarious! This thread is two pages shorter now. Alas I can still see his quoted posts.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Javajot
the part about being shorter

[Snow]

Spiritual discernment is important. I also would recommend ignoring Snow.

And yet here you are still obsessing on me.

Go figure.

[Snow]

I don't know snow, are you more sinful than I? You tell me. What kind of question is that anyway? Some kind of flamebait that you are hoping I will take?

You claimed that I was more vulnerable (to sin it seems) and deceived.

As far a vulnerability goes: If Satan has you convinced that he doesn't exist then further deceiving and tempting is all that much easier for him. If you are aware of his real existence and tactics it is that much easier to recognize them from afar and parry them. Spiritual discernment helps a lot in this too.

More dogma. Do you have any evidence? Me thinks not or you would have posted it instead of posting more dogma.

For all you know I am less deceived and less vulnerable... speaking of which, your existence seems wrapped up in belief of magical, invisible demons doing things to you. Mine is not... so WHO is deceived.

[FunkyTown]

I haven't been on this forum long. I am a member of other forums, work and hobby related and what not, and to tell you the truth in my somewhat limited time here he is the first person that I have met on any forum that I have thought about adding to an "ignore" list. And he managed to do that in less than a week.

snow = ignored.

That's hilarious! This thread is two pages shorter now. Alas I can still see his quoted posts.

It's okay, Java. Occasionally, I see threads that he's in where anger and vitriol are taking over and I feel compelled to warn people.

It's like the old saying goes: Don't wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty, but the pig will love it.

You'll find the board much friendlier now that you've got him on ignore.

[SLC2002GOLD]

How does one use the ignore feature for these threads?

A snow free thread might make the experience more enjoyable?

[MarginOfError]

How does one use the ignore feature for these threads?

A snow free thread might make the experience more enjoyable?

I, too, find discussion riddled with group-think to be much more productive.

[MarginOfError]

The mechanism, at least the final common pathway, is very different, I think. Satan's input ultimately has to reach us via physical being sensory information whereas God can communicate directly with our spirit. I don't think Satan can use the same methods the Holy Ghost does. Satan does not have access to our spirits other than what can be accessed through our physical being, if we let him. This is why most of Christ' ministry is focused on controlling body passions. Even before he started his ministry he fasted for 40 days, overcoming physical demands so he could be "full of the spirit." Our communication with the Holy Ghost is more pure, less static so to speak, when it is not mixed with demands from the body. This is why we have to be quiet to listen to the spirit or why fasting helps with that communication. Whereas the more one feeds their carnal nature, loud music, lots of food, sexual passions etc the louder Satan's communication becomes.

No. I'm not buying it. The idea that there are mystical media that only righteous beings can use just seems silly.

[FunkyTown]

I, too, find discussion riddled with group-think to be much more productive.

There's nothing wrong with disagreeing, Moe. But there is something wrong with being disagreeable.

Snow falls in to the latter category. Or at least did a year ago. Based on the reactions of several of the people here, I would say he's still as disliked now as he was then.

To reiterate: It's fine to have a dissenting opinion. You have to frame that opinion in a way that can communicate. While I'm certainly guilty of failing to properly frame my arguments and have even been combative, it is not my stated purpose to be combative. Back approximately a year ago, and I can't produce a quote because I don't read Snow's posts, Snow said that he was arguing specifically to get reactions from people..

And so his condescension and ignorance came in to sharp focus. What really hit it home was when I searched his name and found 20 pages of posts. Not one of which was not insulting to the person he was speaking to. If you have 20 pages of argumentative insults, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize what said person is.

That is not the mark of someone who should be paid attention to. It is, in fact, the mark of someone who should be ignored.

So when I see a thread becoming angry and insulting, if I see Snow's name attached to it, I just give out warnings to the people. That way, they won't take it personally that Snow is acting out like a 3 year old child desperate for attention. And they won't quit the boards in frustration like several people did roughly a year ago.

Snow can and should be easily dismissed and his arguments ignored. You don't pay attention to the 3 year old having a tantrum.

[Wingnut]

Snow falls in to the latter category. Or at least did a year ago. Based on the reactions of several of the people here, I would say he's still as disliked now as he was then.

I've noticed a difference over the past year, but I'm not sure if it's that he's changed or that I've adjusted better. I used to find Snow contentious and contrary, and now I find him snarky, sometimes amusing, and often thought-provoking.

[Gwen]

after looking at the last 3 pages of this thread i'm closing it till mods who have been following it closer can weigh in.