Is it just me?

[Moksha]

The church is what you make of it. Yes, some sisters will be focused on homemaking, but there are many who are professionals, etc., as well.

Even confirmed house wives could benefit from discussing topics apart from household drudgery. Otherwise, it would be like a convention of professional World of Warcraft players continually discussing life in Dad's basement.

[missmatalini]

In all the times I've served in YM, I've always made a point to make sure that our YMs know some basic homemaking skills: how to sew buttons and zippers, cook a few simple meals, and do laundry. We owe them that skill set, and not every young man will get it at home-- but they need it before they get out into the mission field.

Lest ye think that I'm sexist, I've also made a point of having combined activities that teach the Laurels how to change tires, check oil and fluids, and jump start cars :)

Thats awesome!

Thats what we need in our ward.

The YM activities here consist of playing Call of Duty on an XboX360, or a sport haha

[oldfashionedgirl]

There are a lot of great comments on here..but I haven't seen one (unless I've overlooked it) that talks about what the prophets have said about this! In the end, each of our individual choices are between us and the Lord, but you will never get a prompting that goes against what the Prophet says to do (unless you're Nephi and an Angel comes to you...then God will make sure that you know it's HIM speaking, not just your head).

First of all, I came across this great quote from President Faust's talk in the April 1998 Conference. He quoted President Kimball (indicating that the church still upholds what previous prophets have said):

“Remember, in the world before we came here, faithful women were given certain assignments while faithful men were foreordained to certain priesthood tasks. While we do not now remember the particulars, this does not alter the glorious reality of what we once agreed to. You are accountable for those things which long ago were expected of you just as are those we sustain as prophets and apostles. … This leaves much to be done by way of parallel personal development—for both men and women.”

But the eternal, and incredible role of women has been defined for us.

Here's a quote from President Ezra Taft Benson:

"Since the beginning, a woman’s first and most important role has been ushering into mortality spirit sons and daughters of our Father in Heaven.

Since the beginning, her role has been to teach her children eternal gospel principles. She is to provide for her children a haven of security and love—regardless of how modest her circumstances might be.

In the beginning, Adam was instructed to earn the bread by the sweat of his brow—not Eve. Contrary to conventional wisdom, a mother’s place is in the home!

I recognize there are voices in our midst which would attempt to convince you that these truths are not applicable to our present-day conditions. If you listen and heed, you will be lured away from your principal obligations.

Beguiling voices in the world cry out for “alternative life-styles” for women. They maintain that some women are better suited for careers than for marriage and motherhood.

These individuals spread their discontent by the propaganda that there are more exciting and self-fulfilling roles for women than homemaking. Some even have been bold to suggest that the Church move away from the “Mormon woman stereotype” of homemaking and rearing children. They also say it is wise to limit your family so you can have more time for personal goals and self-fulfillment.

I am aware that many of you often find yourselves in circumstances that are not always ideal. I know this because I have talked with many of you who, because of necessity, must work and leave your children with others—even though your heart is in your home. To you go my love and sympathy for your present, and I hope temporary, situation and my prayers that you will be blessed by our Heavenly Father to compensate for a situation that is less than you may desire.

I recognize that some sisters are widowed or divorced. My heart is drawn to you who are in these circumstances. The Brethren pray for you, and we feel a great obligation to see that your needs are met. Trust in the Lord. Be assured He loves you and we love you. Resist bitterness and cynicism.

I also recognize that not all women in the Church will have an opportunity for marriage and motherhood in mortality. But if you in this situation are worthy and endure faithfully, you can be assured of all blessings from a kind and loving Heavenly Father—and I emphasize all blessings.

Solutions for you who are in a minority are not the same as for the majority of women in the Church who can and should be fulfilling their roles as wives and mothers.

It is a misguided idea that a woman should leave the home, where there is a husband and children, to prepare educationally and financially for an unforeseen eventuality. Too often, I fear, even women in the Church use the world as their standard for success and basis for self-worth." (Ezra Taft Benson, The Honored Place of Women, Ensign, Nov 1981, 104)

Perhaps many may think this is hard doctrine...well, that's what Laman and Lemuel said too. The church is not being sexist..we are simply following what God has instructed us to do.

I am not saying, and neither is the church, nor the prophets, that a woman cannot provide for her family if there are situations where she needs to do so (husband is handicapped, ill or unable). Neither are they condemning women who have not married yet. We have also been told that we must get an education! That is important, of course! But our first priority should be to fulfill the Plan of Salvation. It does not mean that we can ignore these responsibilities to have "more" (be it money, a new car, a new tv etc).

(Whew! Hopefully I don't offend anyone, but I think this needed to be said)

I believe that this is a wonderful role! I'm excited to fulfill it!

If you don't feel like that is something that you can/want to do, then pray about it! The Lord helps us gain a testimony of every gospel principle. It doesn't mean that you have to give up your dreams...just, modify them to fit the Lord's standards. If you want to read more about what the prophets have said just go to lds.org and search the Gospel Library for "Role of Women" or "Education Women".

Edited June 13, 2010 by oldfashionedgirl

[Elgama]

I am struggling with this right now something has happened, I sent an email the other day explaining why I, me Elgama not my husband Gabelpa, would not be sustaining certain people at the branch conference. I was unable to get there and for the second time since this all began a priesthood holder has come iinto my home as a result of me trying to get something sorted, and spolken only to my husband because he is the head of the home. Despite it being about things that happened to my daughter for which I was the one involved and things that happened to ME not my husband ME.

I know its isolated but since I have always said the church was good about the way it treated women its been a bit of an eye opener. I have been trying for 7 years to get a priesthood local leader to listen to me about things

[crazypotato]

Miss,

The church is sexist. It is very different from most other religions except some in the South, that I know of, on women and their roles.

However, I love that it is sexist. I don't believe in feminism. Women have been brainwashed by the feminist movement that being a mother is instead "popping out babies" or being a "baby-maker." As if we are just animals. Feminists teach you that you are not valuable unless you look and act like a man. Have a mannish job, make lots of money, put your kids in daycare so they don't hold you back, and that homemaking is pathetic and for brainless people. The world have jobs that need to be filled. Male and female jobs. God created us to be either male or female. Satan likes to blur and switch gender roles. It is really sad that so many women are taught by society that stay at home moms are brainless, or oppressed. I love being a mom. I love decorating. I love cooking. I loved my job before I had kids, but it is nothing compared to having a family. There is no way in heck I would put them in daycare and run off and get a career unless my husband were dead, I was divorced, or something extreme. My job is too necessary and too important. Feminists also teach women to be selfish and that everything is about pleasing themselves first. You will never be happy that way.

So I am off my high-horse now. And I may want to add that I used to live a much more feminist lifestyle, and my marriage was crappy and I was really unhappy. Once I realized what I was doing, things have changed and i am GENUINELY happy being a girl and doing girl stuff, not trying to be a man.

[mightynancy]

Crazypotato, I disagree with you entirely about feminism. Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings.

Listen to Rush much? Your rant is the propaganda against feminism, not what feminism really is. I am a feminist. I love being a mother. I love my work in the home. I love my divine role. I also spoke up when a man I was training was earning more than I was in the same job (pre-kids, don't have a coronary). I believe that women should have a say in how they are treated in the home, the workplace, and yes, at church. I'm a collaborative problem-solver, a connector of people, a feminine woman. And a feminist.

Don't confuse feminism with man hating selfishness.

[crazypotato]

Crazypotato, I disagree with you entirely about feminism. Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings.

Listen to Rush much? Your rant is the propaganda against feminism, not what feminism really is. I am a feminist. I love being a mother. I love my work in the home. I love my divine role. I also spoke up when a man I was training was earning more than I was in the same job (pre-kids, don't have a coronary). I believe that women should have a say in how they are treated in the home, the workplace, and yes, at church. I'm a collaborative problem-solver, a connector of people, a feminine woman. And a feminist.

Don't confuse feminism with man hating selfishness.

Mightynancy,

I already had plenty of people disagreeing with me and wanting to slap me over the internet.

No, I don't listen to Rush at all, or Glenn Beck. However, I was talking about radical feminism, not human rights. I find it amusing that people assume that I would agree that a woman should not have equal rights to a man and be treated yucky.

If you look at the website for NOW (National Organization for Women), that is the leading feminist group in our country, you will see a list of their agenda items and priorities. Some of their agenda items are good, such as equal rights, equal pay, anti-pornography, and some I believe are immoral - pro-gay marriage, pro-lesbian rights, anti-right wing (those are their words, not mine), universal child care, etc. And when I read their website, I find a lot of their comments to be men bashing.

In my opinion, if you want to call yourself a feminist, most people will assume that you are a modern day feminist, and therefore agree with NOW. I could be wrong.

Anyway, don't worry. I got plenty of people mad at me about my comments and I think everyone was arguing over semantics, rather than women's rights.

[mightynancy]

Women have been brainwashed by the feminist movement that being a mother is instead "popping out babies" or being a "baby-maker." As if we are just animals. Feminists teach you that you are not valuable unless you look and act like a man. Have a mannish job, make lots of money, put your kids in daycare so they don't hold you back, and that homemaking is pathetic and for brainless people. The world have jobs that need to be filled. Male and female jobs. God created us to be either male or female. Satan likes to blur and switch gender roles. It is really sad that so many women are taught by society that stay at home moms are brainless, or oppressed. ... Feminists also teach women to be selfish and that everything is about pleasing themselves first. You will never be happy that way.

Where did you come up with this? I'm not a member of NOW, but I poked around on their site. I can see where you'd disagree with some of their liberal human rights issues (eg gay marriage), but I didn't find any man-bashing, nor any put-downs of SAHM's. Where are the radical feminists? Where did you hear the teachings you quoted?

[Wingnut]

Here we go again...

[crazypotato]

Here we go again...

Let's not go there again. I am done talking about it.

[missmatalini]

Wow, I didn't expect this to turn into a crazy disagreement. >_<

[mightynancy]

I'm not wanting to make this into a big fight.

I just can't help calling someone on unfounded hyperbole when it comes up.

[MisterT]

What was the topic? All I got out of it was that women should be making me quilts... Why have none of you done this for me yet? Sheesh, I feel like I'm getting ripped off.

[mightynancy]

I'll make your quilt just as soon as I finish making your sandwich!

[Wingnut]

By the way, MisterT, you forgot to take out the garbage.

[ZionWoman]

Ha! That makes me laugh because I'm now the YW's pres. in my branch and the lesson I taught last week made go "Oh. MY. I hope we move on soon!" It was really focussed the "submit to your husband and be a good little wife and mommy and don't cause a fuss" type of stuff. I will admit that some of the YW lessons in the book can really make your jaw drop and I would really have a problem if it weren't for the other lessons that emphasis your potential in other areas.

I don't know of many organizations that are actually sexist that encourage young women to get as much education as they can and develop their talents in ALL areas and allow women to have an opinion in Sunday School and LET THEM GIVE TALKS ON GOSPEL TOPICS FROM THE PULPIT.

The truth is the part of life that is likely next for you is marriage and family. YW's is all about making sure you are ready for that enormous responsibility. Sometimes leaders get caught up in the details of somethings and over-emphasis one theme or another.

Try to go with an open mind and heart. Know that HF loves you for more than your child bearing/ rearing abilities and listen carefully to ALL the lessons. YW's is about you. You are encouraged to be apart of planning. Make your voice heard and bring up things that interest you.

[confuzzled]

I haven't read all the post but feel that I need to submit my 2 cents.

A little background. I am inactive.....however I am trying/attempting to get active again...not easy but I know that it is the right thing. Why did I become inactive? It simply hurt too much to go. I was surrounded by everything I wanted but can't have. I am married to a wonderful man, but have not been blessed w/ children. I cannot put words to the heart ache. So I simply stopped going.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is about family...it is about eternal marriage and that will never change. We as children of a loving Heavenly Father need to be comfortable in our own skin. I have mourned numorous times for what I don't have and I probally still will however I have to learn to accept who and what I am. Thats the hard part....

[rameumptom]

Confuzzled,

I hope you come back into activity. If you aren't active, how many kids will you then have? The number isn't going to change simply by not attending. Instead, focus on the abilities and opportunities you DO have.

I have 3 step-kids, but none of my own. I would love to have some, but it isn't going to happen in this life. So, I focus my energies on my grown step-kids and my grandchildren. In this way, I don't waste away my life in things I have no control over.

[applepansy]

Confuzzled. I can't imagine the heartache of not having children but I do know the heartache of losing babies to miscarriage and a 21-yo son to a fatal car accident.

I know a Primary President who was unable to have children. She taught primary. She eventually adopted children, but now she's still in Primary even though her adopted children are no longer primary age.

There are so many children that need to be mothered. Sometimes adoption isn't an option. But there are still many, many children that need to be mothered. Primary is just one place. Young Women's is another place where young women need to be mothered.

The Atonement is to heal our broken heart not just to help us repent of sin. Come back Let the Atonement work to help heal the heartache you are experiencing.

[rameumptom]

I agree with Applepansy. Right now, I'm working with inner city teens in our Spanish branch. Not only are we doing Scouts with them, but the Stake President and I are visiting with several of them in their homes, working on career preparation. It is definitely worthwhile.

[crashdown]

I've griped about this for years! Why does the Elders Quorum have "socials" while the women learn to do "chores?" Why do I need to learn how to cook again? I cook 3 meals a day, 7 days a week, until I die!! Isn't that enough?! How come the Elders Quorun can't learn how to clean out rain gutters or fix the dryer? My basement needs finishing. Couldn't they hold an "enrichment night" for the men and teach them how to hang sheetrock?

OK, I'm being a little facetious, but there's some truth to this. We do learn how to do homemaking chores. But........that's part of motherhood. The fact is, mothers cook, clean, do laundry, sew, etc. And we need to learn how to do those things because we are going to be doing them for a very long time.

Is it fun? No, no it isn't. And it's no fun to go to work every day either.

Tell your leaders you need some balance. I am in my ward YW and I really appreciate feedback from the young women. I want their ideas because I run out of them. Please speak up! Your leaders will greatly appreciate it! BTW, Laurels don't listen to anyone--it's just how they are.

As for the Elders Quorum, I'm sure the men get tired of helping people move and setting up chairs. And RS? We had an AWESOME stake RS activity called Guns and Roses. We went through a gun safety course then went trap shooting. Afterwards, we all received roses. IT ROCKED!!!!!!!

[mightynancy]

LOL our YW are planning a gun skills workshop this summer. I was just released from YW, but I'll share some of what we did.

Regarding the sexist lessons: We modified them or skipped them. The Resource Guide is your friend. We especially love the new "accept and act upon" part - it helps make the topic relevant today. I found that the lessons don't emphasize repentance enough. In a lesson on eternal life, the atonement was not mentioned AT ALL! I was shocked by that, so we had a great discussion about the role of Jesus Christ in our salvation. It's fine to adapt the lessons to meet the needs of your YW.

We really emphasized each person's relationship with Jesus Christ. The family is a means to an end, not the end itself. We openly recognized that not all women will marry, not all women with have children, but all women can receive eternal life. Education isn't solely so we can be better mothers, but also to bless us individually and as part of a community. We did not minimize the importance of motherhood and marriage, we just recognized exceptions along with the rule.

We had the YW plan most of the weekday activities. We are few in number, so every four months or so, we'd have a planning event. We had 3 big sheets of paper on the wall for brainstorming. They were labelled: "We want to learn...", "We want to serve...", and "We want to enjoy...". It helped the girls keep the program balanced between just-for-fun-and-fellowship activities and activities that help the girls really grow. We had planning sheets for the girls to use, which gave structure to the planning process. :)

Crashdown, you'll be glad to hear that our scouts just had an activity on laundry and ironing.

[crashdown]

Thank you for the ideas! I plan to use them. And yes, I am glad to know the boys are learning how to iron and do laundry.:)

[oldfashionedgirl]

I know that it can be hard to be in a group of people that look down on you for your dreams. The funny thing is, my situation is currently the opposite. I want to become a stay at home mom, with all of my heart. But everyone around me is focused on careers and education. What this has taught me is that all of us have different dreams. Dreams are important in life. Who am I to say that my dream is more important than theirs? Who am I to say that my dream is the RIGHT dream?

I just can't.

I also know women who have children and work because their husbands have not been able to find employment. I wonder how many of them feel the same way about some of the lessons we have in church. Remember, the Church is perfect, but the people in it are not.

In the church we uphold the declaration by prophets which is called The Family: A Proclamation to the World. Here is the church doctrine, let the Spirit guide you in your life to live it.

"By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. " (The Family: A Proclamation to the World)

Good luck with your dreams in life! God will always be with you to guide you in the things that you need to do, and the experiences that you need to have!

[bettyjbass]

Sister, I do understand what you saying, because I am black and felt somewhat of a distrace when I attended my old Ward, plus being free in mind spirit, soul to God, but felt false judged eyes, by the relief society women who had wrong sexist thoughts at me, like I wanted to be with their husband. I have my own husband, and felt flesh crawled up in my mouth to say some words was not good. Although I ask my heavenly Father to touch those nasty minded undercovered thoughts of them that probably was guilty of their own past sins. Praying for hearts that they have done wrong, and I felt in the spirit true exceptance to what their minds had wrong thoughts about me. I forgave them all! Stay prayer some women still need to work on flesh in themselves! I love you sister, stay strong.