Is it ever ok to Lie?

[Dravin]

This actually opens up a new avenue of discussion though. If we do claim that lying is categorically wrong, what about deception? Is it always wrong to deceive another person? Part of my belief that it isn't always wrong to lie comes from my understanding that lying is just one of many tools that can be used to deceive. If we accept in the larger context that at times it is appropriate--maybe even necessary--to deceive another person, does it really matter what tool we use to accomplish that goal? To what extent does it matter?

Indeed, when I think of acceptable lying/deception what comes to mind quickest for me is deception in warfare. Is camouflage and feints immoral? What about Captain Moroni's actions in Alma 55? The Allied's phantom army lead by Patton complete with communiques to make the German's think this phantom army would attack at Calais? What about the incident in which to confirm what island a Japanese codeword referred to the Americans sent a fake report that the island was low on water and then listened closely when the Japanese reported (codeword) was low on water?

All deception and in the later cases straight out lying was involved.

[Onhech]

Mormonmusic, on the philosophy of "the greatest good for the greatest number" here is a situation.

A man has 30 people held hostage in building, there is no way to get into him, no alternate possibilities, he is completely in control. All he demands is that you bring a man to him so he can kill him, then he will let the 30 go. Assuming he is truthful what would you do if you were in charge of choice?

This also hits close to the church as you look at missionary hostage situations and people trying to get money from the church.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Mormonmusic, on the philosophy of "the greatest good for the greatest number" here is a situation.

A man has 30 people held hostage in building, there is no way to get into him, no alternate possibilities, he is completely in control. All he demands is that you bring a man to him so he can kill him, then he will let the 30 go. Assuming he is truthful what would you do if you were in charge of choice?

This also hits close to the church as you look at missionary hostage situations and people trying to get money from the church.

In this case, you have to be concerned about the precedent you set in giving into his demands. If you send in the "lamb for the slaughter", then other like-minded men may well demand the same thing because of the weakness you've shown in negotiating with him. I wouldn't send in the "one".

I know you said there's no other alternative, but in real life, there would be -- and for me, if I was a figure with formal authority to do so, I would send in an armed team to take out the criminal by force, even kill him. Yes, this would endanger the hostages, and some might be injured, but in the long run, the policy you set of no negotiation with criminals would save more lives.

Edited June 4, 2010 by mormonmusic

[Still_Small_Voice]

My Father-in-law hates split pea soup. When he was young he visited someone who gave him split pea soup. He ate it all to be polite. The person then asked him if he liked it and he lied and said he did.

He got served a lot of split pea soup by that person after that. :)

[Jamie123]

Perhaps you remember the movie LIar Liar with Jim Carey. He was defending a woman who was clearly caught in the act of adultery. She was on the verge of losing all rights to her ex-husband's wealth due to a pre-nup agreement that said if she cheated, she would get nothing.

Yes I do remember that movie - I thought it was one of Jim Carey's funniest

Secretary: A burglar broke into my friend's house and cut himself on a knife. My friend had to pay him $10,000 compensation. How does that make you feel?

Jim Carey: Angry!

Secretary: Why?

Jim Carey: Because I'd have got him $20,000!!!

[Horus_53]

Having worked as a cop, I've a view of truth/lying that might be different. For me, it's all a matter of degree. Going to court week after week, year after year, I'm convinced that EVERYONE lies. What you choose to lie about, though, is most significant.

Lying about what you saw to an officer of the court, is much different than telling your wife she doesn't look 'fat' in those jeans.

I work hard to tell the truth about significant things, but don't 'sweat the small stuff.'

[bcguy]

I think if you were true-full all the time, no one would like you because you would be to blunt and honest how you feel about them all the time Woman, especially my wife, gets very emotional alot of the time so there are some things she does not need to know. I always say, unless its necessary that the other spouse needs to know something, don,t volunteer it if you know the outcome will drive you crazy for no reason.

[Suzie]

Well for all the posters who mentioned that Abraham lied when he said Sarah was his sister. Technically it wasn't a lie, she was indeed his half sister. (Genesis 20:12)

Is it necessary to lie sometimes? I would say yes but in EXTREME situations. I don't think I could go as far as to say that sometimes it is "ok" to lie, I would say it may be necessary may be in situations where you have to protect your own life or others.

[Daniel2020]

Woman, especially my wife, gets very emotional alot of the time so there are some things she does not need to know. I always say, unless its necessary that the other spouse needs to know something, don,t volunteer

Withholding information isn't lying. Unless it creates a deception.

[Elgama]

Well for all the posters who mentioned that Abraham lied when he said Sarah was his sister. Technically it wasn't a lie, she was indeed his half sister. (Genesis 20:12)

/QUOTE]

true but Rebekah was not Isaac's sister.